![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 10 to 34 of 34. Go back in thread:
Posted by Tabitha on June 24, 2003, at 0:45:56
In reply to Trying hard not to plummet..., posted by kara lynne on June 23, 2003, at 16:15:56
kara, ow ow, I'm in breakup hell too, my home is still pleasant but my job is getting unbearable..
I'm a little out of practice with this, it's been a long time since I last felt such loss, but last I remember my own good advice to self was just sit with the pain, accept that it's grief (a natural healthy response to loss), and that it will end, and the more you can sit with it the quicker it will be over. And try to check your impulses to do things to short-circuit the process (like calling up the idiot and begging him to return), but if you do go for another round, it's OK.. things happen in their own time.
oh, and don't worry constantly that it's clinical depression instead of grief.
Posted by kara lynne on June 24, 2003, at 13:19:21
In reply to Re: Trying hard not to plummet..., posted by Tabitha on June 24, 2003, at 0:45:56
Well you guys are much kinder to me than I am. I sure hope I would never go back to him after what has gone down between us. I don't think I could ever recover a shred of self-respect if I did.
He apologized for his "bad words", but quickly went into how he was "provoked and given ultimatums" by me. I'm still trying hard to think of what those were--that I wanted to know if we were heading toward marriage after five years? That after two years of living together I brought up the idea of a marriage that was supposed to have happened after three months? Maybe one day I'll be in a relationship that my partner thinks of as a choice rather than an ultimatum.
Once again, I seem to be surrounded by women who are getting married or pregnant within their marriages. Maybe there is a reason that I am seeing this all over. Maybe there is no reason at all for it. Just random torture. Nothing personal.
Grief came sooner than I thought. My car hears most of it. It became clear quickly that my knight has no intention of shining up his armor. I thought he would try at least a little.
Thank you for the suggestions regarding noise. I am armed with packages of earplugs, but I didn't know you could get white noise machines. I will most definitely be looking into that.
My parent's just learned I moved---I told my mother he said things to me that were unforgiveable. Strangely, she asked what they were, as if maybe I had misjudged. I told her what he said about my never finding love, and threw in just a few of the more salient epithets. I said, "I know you liked him and wanted us to stay together, but if you still wanted me to be with him after he said those things to me I wouldn't be very happy." My father said it was good I moved, but that I should forgive him.
Somewhere I am struggling to figure out what I learned from them and their relationship, and their relationship with me, that made it ok for me to be in a string of abusive relationships. Not to blame (although I feel the impulse), but really to figure it out so it doesn't happen again--God please, so it doesn't happen again. I have to watch the place in me that believes I'm wrong, and the place in them that would have me believe it. "She screwed it up again, what did she do this time...?"
It happened after Father's day when we were at dinner at their house. They were in their prime that night--my father in his punitive, silent weirdness and my mother infantile, desperately clamoring for attention: "The doctor told me how young I looked for my age, that he never would have believed it if he hadn't read it in my chart--everyone tells me how good I look..." This was all she could say to us that night, and on most dinners before that. It was embarassing--the focus always had to come back to her, especially if God forbid, it landed on me for a moment. She would cue my ex that it was time for him to tell her she looked good. Meanwhile, my father was showing him a meaningless article that my "brother the lawyer" had gotten published in some magazine (to my ex, the publisher)-- I guess in a pathetic attempt to impress him. No wonder he left--he probably figured this is what he had to look forward to. Not that he came from any less crazy stock.
The grace of a woman or the grief of a child. Yes, I feel exactly that child's grief. Maybe I feel a woman's grief as well. Maybe I will be lucky enough to know grace someday--it has such a beautiful sound.
Greg--what is your relationship like? Do you have children? What is your woman like?:
Posted by kara lynne on June 24, 2003, at 13:50:36
In reply to Plummeting and beyond., posted by kara lynne on June 24, 2003, at 13:19:21
When grief comes on, and I feel that ache in my gut--it's so physical. It feels like someone punched me in the gut, my stomach just aches. I don't know any other way to say it.
I'm sorry if I'm rambling, and childish, and blaming. When I was a child my older brother used to sock me in the stomach when he was fed up with me--more times than I can count. He used to "knock the wind out of me". I know this is what siblings do, that you don't go crying abuse because your brother hit you. But there was something about that particular action--socking me so hard in the stomach that the diaphragm goes into spasm and you can't catch your breath for a moment. Figuratively he has knocked the wind out me within our sick little family. Then, and this was only once, he held a pillow over my face until I couldn't breathe. Obviously he let go, but not until I was crying and hysterical.
I don't know why I'm even saying this, except that I feel like I've been socked in the stomach. It feels like the same pain, like it's connected somehow.
When I start to cry and choke and feel like I'll never stop being so sad, it feels like death. Is this how grief is like death? And some of it is that little girl punched in the stomach, wanting someone to pick her up and comfort her and punish the one that hurt her. How do you learn to care for yourself in those places that you were never cared for? I hear the words, but they don't penetrate. In a hollow pit where I can only hear the echo of despair and loneliness-- I want to give up.
Go to her, you say.
Posted by kara lynne on June 24, 2003, at 18:16:12
In reply to Grief and death, posted by kara lynne on June 24, 2003, at 13:50:36
Posted by Dinah on June 24, 2003, at 21:24:56
In reply to ok, so I'm melodramatic. (nm), posted by kara lynne on June 24, 2003, at 18:16:12
You're grieving and your grief is quite appropriate. You can't move on until you've grieved not only the relationship, but all the hopes and dreams and all the things that come with a relationship.
As far as death is concerned, I have two conflicting views, depending on my mood. Sometimes I see it as merging with the consciousness of all souls, or with God, or with all the individual sparks of life. Other times I think of it as a movie room, where they replay every hurt you've ever done anyone, any kindness you've failed to give. Or maybe something completely different. Anyone's guess is as good as anyone else's I guess.
But grief, grief is raw pain.
Have you had therapy? Therapy is a good place to learn to comfort yourself. It's helped me.
(((Kara Lynne)))
Posted by kara lynne on June 24, 2003, at 21:58:59
In reply to Re: No, you're not. » kara lynne, posted by Dinah on June 24, 2003, at 21:24:56
Thank you dinah. I feel so vulnerable after pushing that send button sometimes.
I recently heard someone speak about death the second way you describe it. Then someone amended it to say that at least you are relieved of your fear while reflecting back on every moment of your life.
I guess I mean this feels like a death, a huge grief-y loss. It is that raw pain. I just can't focus on anything. It's hard to imagine that I will ever not feel this badly-- the trap of depression as well.
I have had therapy but not in recent years, and I don't think it was such good therapy to begin with. Right now it's all I can do to get myself to the market--really, I can't get there. I went two days ago but now I have nothing left (still no refrigerator to keep anything in anyway) and I just don't care. I know I have to push myself. I know I have to take care of myself. But right now I just don't want to. I just want to sleep.
I don't know who will be taking this test I'm supposed to have on Saturday because I have checked out. I really will have to rely on forces greater than myself, which I don't believe in much right now. Thank you Dinah, I hope you're doing well.
Posted by Dinah on June 24, 2003, at 22:20:50
In reply to Re: No, you're not., posted by kara lynne on June 24, 2003, at 21:58:59
You know, the exact same thing happened to a dear friend of mine. A girl he had hoped to marry broke up with him a couple of days before a big test experience, and unfortunately it did affect his performance. I'm not telling you this to scare you or depress you. I'm telling you because when he had gotten over the grief, he took the test again and did just fine. He went on to grad school and the career path he wanted. It was a setback but not the end of the world. So I'm just telling you this story to encourage you to take some of the pressure off yourself.
But an extra boot in your ex's posterior for his timing. Bad form, that.
Posted by kara lynne on June 25, 2003, at 0:34:03
In reply to Re: No, you're not. » kara lynne, posted by Dinah on June 24, 2003, at 22:20:50
Hi dinah,
What you said doesn't scare or depress me. I'm prepared at this point not to pass, even though I won't like it. What worries me more is that I don't have the drive to do anything the test pertains to. I really hate to admit it, but school, career...it's all secondary to me. I don't identify with it. While my ex boyfriend existed only in relationship to his work, I was existing first (ugh) for the relationship.I went to school and pursued a career because I had to. I don't dislike it, but I can certainly muster no passion for it at the moment. I was taking this particular exam, (national licensing) primarily for him--I don't think I would have considered moving or practicing out of state had I not been with him. His work takes him all over (yet another problem--my reticence to travel) and I wanted to have that option. It's not a bad thing to have, but he was a big motivator in my decision.
I sure wish I could stop thinking about him, wondering about him, torturing myself with thoughts about the kind of woman he might date next.
I know he couldn't have saved me, no relationship can. I don't know what I was hoping for--maybe that we could help each other become better people. But I never expected that it would actually rob me of myself even more, and leave me feeling so worthless. More worthless than ever.
Do you think a person can be successfully reprogrammed? Like NLP or EMDR or whatever that is?
I wouldn't even take the test, but it is $950 non redeemable dollars.
Posted by Dinah on June 25, 2003, at 5:18:52
In reply to Re: No, you're not., posted by kara lynne on June 25, 2003, at 0:34:03
No, I don't think people can be reprogrammed. But I do think they can make slow and steady progress with some hard work in therapy. Sometimes I actually believe the things my therapist has told me.
Living for the relationship may be programmed into women, but I think that is reprogrammable. There is so much else out there. Is the test you're taking something you *could* be interested in? Do you have any liking for your career at all?
Once the raw pain heals, mayhe this could be one of those watershed moments in life, where you learn to love yourself for all those things that make you you. All the things that others see in you, but that you must discover for yourself. I hope so, for you. If one must suffer, it seems only fair that something useful come of it.
Geesh, I sound like little mary sunshine, and since that's not how I feel, i'll just sign off with the hope that the pain gets less raw soon.
Posted by kalyb on June 25, 2003, at 5:57:09
In reply to Re: No, you're not. » kara lynne, posted by Dinah on June 25, 2003, at 5:18:52
Hi sweetie,
So you managed to get yourself another place, and away from him! That's wonderful! I know you don't think so right now, but you did it, and there will come a time soon when you'll feel well enough to congratulate yourself for doing it!
I know of a lovely book, which I bought on impulse some years ago. When I was grieving after a relationship breakup last year, I picked up this book and started reading, and you know, it really soothed me and started the healing process.
(Going to try the double double quotes thing here for the first time, wish me luck!)"The Path To Love" by Deepak Chopra.
It gently explores the nature of love, and in a way which, if you are grieving for lost love, does NOT hurt. In fact it connected me to my inner self and helped me to transform some of the leftover love for the relationship into love for myself, since it's all from the same source. When I spent a little time each day reading this book, I feel peace. (The trick is having enough motivation to pick the book up in the first place!!).
When I was grieving over the ex-bf a couple of weeks ago I should have picked it up again really, although much of that grief was feeling the loss of him as a friend and missing his presence which isn't quite the same.
When you are ready, consider buying this book. If it doesn't help to heal you from the inside, it will surely strengthen you and prepare you for the next time you find love.
Treat yourself well, my dear, it will pass.
A whole lot of hugs for you {{{{kara lynne}}}}
Kalyb xx
Posted by Greg on June 25, 2003, at 8:15:34
In reply to Re: No, you're not., posted by kara lynne on June 24, 2003, at 21:58:59
Hi Kara,
I'm sorry I haven't answered your questions yet. I sat down last night and started posting to you but had to leave before I was finished. It was my wedding anniversary and we had dinner plans. I will finish it up this afternoon and get it posted when I get home from work. I'm pretty upbeat about my relationship, so be prepared...
Sorry for being rude. I'm glad you're sharing what you're feeling, I know it can help.
Greg
Posted by kara lynne on June 25, 2003, at 15:04:28
In reply to Hey, kara {{{hugs}}}, posted by kalyb on June 25, 2003, at 5:57:09
Hi kaly,
I hope things are better for you where you are living as well.Please forgive me, could you tell me again the title of the first book you recommended--and please give me your email address again. Everything I own or have written down is lost, in shambles or in boxes.
I'm trying hard to put one foot in front of another. I know I have to have some semblance of a self before I ever have hopes of being in a relationship that works.
God, this apartment is a nightmare. This couple (it's a cultural thing) above me just screams instead of speaking and stomps instead of walking. I guess the woman supports the louder of the two who is of course home and stomping and shouting all day in his exuberance. I do wear earplugs, but one doen't want to have to live with them. They're starting to hurt my ears.
I have to go out and get nails to batten down the screens so my scared little bunny-kitty doesn't hop away. She gives me a little purpose, anyway.
I'm trying to tell myself all things I want to hear from other people: I did the right thing, I won't feel this way forever, I am ok, I am not wrong and worthless and hopeless. I don't really want to die. But I don't believe me.
So my mind turns to useful things once more--imagining him in this new house I could have moved into with him if we had just held out a week or two more without the blowup. All the parties he'll have, everything I held him back from. The phantom woman who will slide into the picture and be everything I am not. I have such an elaborate self torturing method. I'm not proud of it--I feel like I'm churning in death throes. I wish it was the death throes of that pattern.
I feel like I've run a one woman marathon and slid exhausted and panting to the finish line. But for no reason--agony of de feet.
Thanks for listening, thanks for hugging.
Posted by kalyb on June 25, 2003, at 16:12:49
In reply to Thanks kaly, posted by kara lynne on June 25, 2003, at 15:04:28
> I hope things are better for you where you are living as well.
Thanks... seem to be better after the weekend outburst. Someone mentioned to me today that women with young babies (hers is 5 months) can behave very irrationally sometimes, so who knows, maybe that's part of it~?
> Please forgive me, could you tell me again the title of the first book you recommended--I won't double-double quote it, since my last attempt didn't work! It *is* a UK book, so may not be on Amazon.com anyway.
It is:
Overcoming Low Self Esteem, by Melanie Fennell.The one I mentioned in my last post linked to the wrong book. Just in case you have doubt, it's The Path To Love, by Deepak Chopra. A lovely, gentle book!
>and please give me your email address again. Everything I own or have written down is lost, in shambles or in boxes.
That's okay, I understand!
Try kalyb at onetel dotcom> I have to go out and get nails to batten down the screens so my scared little bunny-kitty doesn't hop away. She gives me a little purpose, anyway.
awww... she sounds sweet. If she hops, is she a Manx?
> I'm trying to tell myself all things I want to hear from other people: I did the right thing, I won't feel this way forever, I am ok, I am not wrong and worthless and hopeless. I don't really want to die. But I don't believe me.
Then would it help to hear it from someone else...?
* You did a great thing, not only a right thing.
* You are okay, and things will become okay-er.
* No way are you wrong! :) No-one is wrong. In the eyes of love, all people are doing the best they can from their own levels of consciousness. (That's a quote from a book).
* Worthless? You were with someone who made you feel that way, and that was only his warped opinion! Let yourself feel yourself, let your own opinion develop, because as the memory of his hateful words fade, so grows your own confidence and sense of self. A good self.
* I don't think you want to die. I think you'd like a small part of yourself to die, but not the whole. Like a slightly bruised apple, the rest of you is still so sweet. Bunny-kitty needs you, too. I know how important loved companion animals can be.
* For now, you don't have to believe you completely. Just trust, if you can, that things will pass and things will become peaceful for you.> So my mind turns to useful things once more--imagining him in this new house I could have moved into with him if we had just held out a week or two more without the blowup. All the parties he'll have, everything I held him back from. The phantom woman who will slide into the picture and be everything I am not. I have such an elaborate self torturing method. I'm not proud of it--I feel like I'm churning in death throes. I wish it was the death throes of that pattern.
I know that torture so well... but he will reap what he sows.... how can he expect to become a three-dimensional person in his world as it is now?
> I feel like I've run a one woman marathon and slid exhausted and panting to the finish line. But for no reason--agony of de feet.
>
> Thanks for listening, thanks for hugging.You're welcome.. I just hope and trust what I write helps....
The Path To Love has some sayings at the back, and I'll choose one for you - (It's going to be hard to choose just one!!)
Growth is the willingness to let reality be new every moment.
Negativity is born in the gap where love has been excluded.
Love dances in the freshness of the unknown.
(See, I told you it would be hard to pick just one!!!)
More hugs,
Kalyb xx
Posted by giget on June 26, 2003, at 12:33:52
In reply to Thanks kaly, posted by kara lynne on June 25, 2003, at 15:04:28
Hey Kara,
I finally found you again. I was wondering how the move went and how you were doing.
Sounds like at least you got out of there for now. Don't let him use you now.He should be the one begging to have a relationship again. You have the upper hand, there is nothing you could have done in the past that would have changed the fact that you two could not be together. (was that a run on sentence?)
I still beat myself up over that stuff, so how can I ask you not to? I can just tell you what time has given me. I am still terribly lonely, but better to have gotten out of the relationship.
You have to relize that you are not the names he called you, and believe it. He is like the bully, picking on someone else, because they are lacking something in there life.
There is still times, even with all the time, that I want to call him. I don't even think at those times, I just find myself calling him, or the next morning looking through the call log, seeing his number.
My therapist says that I have not greived about this loss yet, and that I am still angry. The problem with a relationship for that long is that it breaks up the dream you had of the future.
I had this wonderful future I thought. He would propose perfectly, the wedding, having a house to share with him, our children... all that stuff. I planned my whole future with him. When we broke up, it was as if I have not dream anymore, there was no future. I understand that the future seems dark and scary. Once you have really let go of the dream, you can get over him. You have to relize what it would have really been having what you wanted. He would be mean to you all the time, break down your self esteem, you would have to hang out with his friends, and I bet he would say that the house was his, if you ever fought and that he just married you because that was the next step.
You can not force someone to change or love you the way you want them to love you. No matter what you do for that person or how you express your love, it will never change.
bla..bla...bla
Posted by kara lynne on June 26, 2003, at 14:05:58
In reply to Kara... I finally found you again., posted by giget on June 26, 2003, at 12:33:52
hi giget,
No, not bla bla bla. Very important and helpful for me to be reminded of. Truly, I need all the reinforcement I can get. I wanted so badly to call him yesterday, but I made myself wait until I talked to my counselor first. I sat there in her office, sniveling and verifying that it would not be a great idea to call him right then and tell him how much I loved him...I'm glad I waited. I was starting to replay our conversations and how he said he thought I didn't like him and that was the reason for his little outburst. Well if I had only loved him better...She reminded me of how disempowered I had become in the relationship, and how he counted on that. I told her that day I had been in the dept. store and had a nervous breakdown in the refrigerator section. Suddenly it just became too overwhelming--the idea that I had to find a refrigerator *and* a microwave. No-one wanted to help me because I wasn't going to buy anything expensive, and I left in tears with nothing. Now I managed to go to school and do some significant things in my life (even though my ex was appalled that it took me five years--although the average is four) but I was reduced to someone who could barely remember how to drive yesterday. She told me of some book that talked about the Cinderella Complex, about an advertising executive who got in a bad marriage that disempowered her and she felt incapable of doing the smallest things.
How long were you with your boyfriend? I'm sorry you're still going through so much pain. Do you agree with your therapist that you have not grieved? I am praying that I do not have to have some extended grieving process that takes lifetimes. I've wasted too much time already. I know it's too soon, but I don't want to wait a long time. The last couple of days have been the worst--I guess I had to focus on moving at first and that took up all my energy. Yesterday was really the pits. But I made it through the day and even had about a minute and a half where I felt ok--not happy, but not destitute. I was hanging a shower curtain and I realized I was feeling ok and I was so grateful. I think it was a medication moment though, and it didn't last.
Every day I find out some new and charming thing about this apartment--the latest being that the living room windows (bottom floor apt.) don't lock. They're so rickety they would have to be replaced entirely and apparently no one before me noticed or cared, just like they hadn't noticed the gas stove leaking like crazy. I talked to the manager and asked if the windows locked and she said no they didn't, that "...it was veddy veddy safe neighborhood." well needless to say that doesn't work for me. I just nodded, went inside and called around to look at other apts. I'm on my way there now.
Thank you so much for checking in with me giget--please stay in contact. It really helps.
Posted by kara lynne on June 26, 2003, at 14:11:53
In reply to Re: Thanks kaly - you're welcome, kara :), posted by kalyb on June 25, 2003, at 16:12:49
..is not a manx. She is all white, soft as anything you've ever felt, with a pink nose and pink ears. She's called a turkish angora and she really feels like angora. She was a little stray who found me around 9 years ago and we've been inseparable ever since. I just call her my bunny kitty because you know how sometimes kitties just look like bunnies with their little feet, or something. Plus the white and pink thing.
Thank you so much for your kind and beautiful words. I'll check back after I go apt. hunting--can you believe it? Once was traumatic, twice oughta flatten me. Maybe I can just look at it like it got the momentum going. Thanks again. ((((kalyb.))))
Posted by giget on June 26, 2003, at 14:28:30
In reply to Kaly, my bunny kitty =^..^=, posted by kara lynne on June 26, 2003, at 14:11:53
Well I thought you people would have had enough of me interjecting my life into every thread....
I was with him for over 5 years. I was very weak after him and fell into the trap of calling him and telling him I loved him and that I would do anything to get him back. I thought maybe I did not show him enough love, like you, but you only showed that amount of love for a reason.
Well on and off, and I mean about 2 days of the month we would talk and get together, for 2 YEARS! I finally realized he was literaly using me... physically and mentally. I tryed everything to make it work. I would call it a "me fix" that he needed, he would be all sweet like in the beginning of the relationship and draw me in for one day or two, then ignor me for a month.
I finally put a stop to it the last time he came over. Like I said I realized he was using me, and I did not let that happen. The next day at work, did I mention HE works about 20 ft from me?, we got in an email war. He finally said that he would never be happy with me or love me anymore. That was a turning point. But it took 2 years to figure this out, and the therapist said I have not even greived yet!!!
The dream of a normal life with a husband, house, family fell apart at my feet.... Long story short, I was in denial of a few major things in my life and that is when we first meet. I thought to be normal it was all this stuff. My dream was only with him and that is the only person I could have it with....
So I am not really greiving for him or who he was, but my dream.... I have to disconnect the two and so do you. Write a letter to yourself or him or the dream, don't send it, and say all your feelings at the time. Do not act like you are writing to him, trying to get him back, just write down your feelings. It is something in trying times that you can depend on. Anytime you want to call him, you should call me... I have been there and I am still dealing with it....
Hope you feel better after the apt search!
Posted by kara lynne on June 26, 2003, at 19:29:18
In reply to Kara... about my past, posted by giget on June 26, 2003, at 14:28:30
Yeah, you gotta watch out for those email wars. We already began one, but I asked that we stop it at least until after my exam. (not that I want to resume warring).
It's so hard when you want to redeem yourself--but I have to remind myself there will never be any redemption in his eyes. It is truly an exercise in futility. I don't know why that drive is so strong--to go to the one person who refuses to acknowledge you and desperately seek acknowledgement.
I'm so glad you finally put a stop to it. How long has it been since the actual break up? I know you said you hung on for two years, but has it been two years since then? And how hard it must be to work so close to him!!
Well I hate to belabor it, but this grieving process is so elusive. What exactly are you supposed to do? How do you know when you're done? How does your therapist know that you're not? You don't have to answer, I'm just rhetorically wondering. I guess I wonder if *you* feel like you have grieved.
Yesterday I felt like my guts had been ripped out. Everywhere I went I cried. Is that grief? I'm sure we are grieving for more than the men--like you say, for the dream, for lost parts of ourselves. Frankly I don't see how I could function and feel that much grief all the time. I don't think we're designed to. I guess it comes in pockets.
well apt. hunting was dismal. It's amazing how people forget to tell you things like the apt. is over a dump, or a construction site where they're building high rises.
Better luck next time, eh? Thanks for writing, I appreciate it.
Posted by kara lynne on June 27, 2003, at 19:04:26
In reply to Re: Kara... about my past, posted by kara lynne on June 26, 2003, at 19:29:18
Well someone just told me I'm still looking for daddy's approval. It's so clear, yet so blocked. Simple but complicated. Is that what my problem is? So I never got it from my father--and I keep recreating a rejecting partner to try to resolve it? Or confirm my rejectibility?
I hate to say it, but this feels like a case of the uselessness of psychotherapy. Granted, I haven't had the best, and even managed to recreate my original conflict there. Only when the therapist was supposed to help me heal from it he damaged me more instead.
I guess what I mean is I *know* these things about myself, but knowledge has done precious little to keep me from getting in yet another relationship that slaughtered my self esteem.
What do I do? Get angry? I've done it. Forgive? I've done that. I've done Lifespring, the Hoffman process, meditation, hypnosis, acupuncture, 12 step programs--I've done light therapy and holographic repatterning--the candida cleanse, the....
Well you get the point. There seems to be none.
Posted by giget on July 1, 2003, at 10:48:18
In reply to Daddy's approval, posted by kara lynne on June 27, 2003, at 19:04:26
Kara,
How are you doing? Have you found another apt? Are you holding on ok? What's going on?
Just worried about you! Hang in there!
Posted by kara lynne on July 1, 2003, at 17:40:51
In reply to Kara how are you fending?, posted by giget on July 1, 2003, at 10:48:18
Hi giget,
How nice to scroll down and see your post. Thank you for asking; I have not found another apt. yet, but I'm going to really step up the search. It's so exhausting.The ex and I are ensconced in email wars--I don't seem to have the discipline not to engage. You would be amazed at how many different ways there are to say, "It's your fault."
He starts to apologize but always ends up by telling me how I caused (fill in the blank). I am trying to tell him I want to be more than an ultimatum to somebody and he tells me how he was really just about to love me, but I was just too darn demanding. That pesky idea of marriage after five years, you know? Some nerve I have. Apparently he wanted to marry me, but for some reason I never knew about it.His latest suggestion was that we see a "fairly intense psychiatrist" with a more "rigorous" approach than the lightweight counseling we had (and that was like pulling teeth). I must admit it was tempting at first; the promise of it working out, or the idea that he may really want it to. But I thought it through and didn't foresee anything positive coming from it. This is where we are after five years, do you think a fairly intense psychiatrist with a rigorous approach could fix us?
Thanks for letting me get this out. Thanks for checking. How are you doing? I am going to go read your posts below and find out!
Posted by giget on July 2, 2003, at 6:55:34
In reply to Re: Kara how are you fending?, posted by kara lynne on July 1, 2003, at 17:40:51
I really don't know if an intense therapist will help... from my situation it would not have. Your ex is the way he is and that will never change. Sure they change for a day or a week, but the true person always shows through, the person you left that day. The person who puts you down.
Email wars are not fun, I have been there remember? I realized that it is a way of still having contact with him, even if it is just fighting. You still have something to hang on to. It keeps your mind on the relationship more than not, always knowing there is an email in the box.... You need to let go and just send the email back, "I am blocking your email address" I have tried to block an email address before but the work email does not allow it. I know that most internet email you can block the sender.... I know it is hard, and I am only telling you what I did or wanted to do at the time....
Hope you are feeling better... What state or area do you live in? See here in MIchigan it is hard to deal with the seasons, and I live in a very conservative city... no one understands and they just ignor the problem. You know the thought.... Don't make eye contact and they are not really there!
That is why I need a new job in a new state! Anyone have suggestions on CA or AZ jobs? or how to even find some?
> Hi giget,
> How nice to scroll down and see your post. Thank you for asking; I have not found another apt. yet, but I'm going to really step up the search. It's so exhausting.
>
> The ex and I are ensconced in email wars--I don't seem to have the discipline not to engage. You would be amazed at how many different ways there are to say, "It's your fault."
> He starts to apologize but always ends up by telling me how I caused (fill in the blank). I am trying to tell him I want to be more than an ultimatum to somebody and he tells me how he was really just about to love me, but I was just too darn demanding. That pesky idea of marriage after five years, you know? Some nerve I have. Apparently he wanted to marry me, but for some reason I never knew about it.
>
> His latest suggestion was that we see a "fairly intense psychiatrist" with a more "rigorous" approach than the lightweight counseling we had (and that was like pulling teeth). I must admit it was tempting at first; the promise of it working out, or the idea that he may really want it to. But I thought it through and didn't foresee anything positive coming from it. This is where we are after five years, do you think a fairly intense psychiatrist with a rigorous approach could fix us?
>
> Thanks for letting me get this out. Thanks for checking. How are you doing? I am going to go read your posts below and find out!
Posted by kara lynne on July 2, 2003, at 11:52:23
In reply to Re: Kara how are you fending?, posted by giget on July 2, 2003, at 6:55:34
Hi giget,
You're right about that hanging on to the relationship through email, no question. We acually ended up *civil* yesterday --(it was hard, but I made myself). There are still a couple of things we have to work out about my getting my stuff back. I'm going over there today (with a kind friend who offered to go with me). That was how the emails started--mine was very terse and to the point asking when he might be away so I could come get my stuff, because I thought it would be easier when he wasn't there. He didn't like that, and we were off and running.But his last email was full of pleases and kindlys--we'll see how long that lasts. We both agreed we just need some time right now, before any rigorous analyzation. The heartbreak is that of course you're right; I don't think he'll change, or that intense psychotherapy will save us, and it's just another false hope to stay attached to.
What kind of job are you looking for?
Posted by giget on July 2, 2003, at 12:11:09
In reply to Re: Kara how are you fending?, posted by kara lynne on July 2, 2003, at 11:52:23
Basically anything in Business, Computer management (not coding), data entry, secratary... anything to get me out of Michigan. I have a degree in Business.. and 1 year of experience in the computer field with an international company... Sounds like I am writing a resume...
If anyone finds anything for me please tell me... I need to get out of this state!Long confusing post below... hope you can follow my rambleing...
Same thing here about the items wanting to get them back... I would write him all the time just stating that I wanted them back... he said he did not know where they were, but if he stumbled apon them he would tell me. I knew exactly where they were....
Anyways, a good friend told me that that is just material stuff. I was trying so hard to get back the relationship by holding on to the possiblility of getting stuff back, and it was just worldly goods. I had to forget about getting the stuff back, would you really want it, if it reminded you of him. That is one more thing to look at on the sad days, that makes you cry.
Can you live without this stuff? Even if you have a friend with you, it will still be hard.
What do you say to him, how do you face him, will you cry......This is all hurt you don't have to put yourself through... Like I said before that I finally made a box of stuff that reminded me of him. I told my therapist, and he asked if I got ride of it, and I told him it is a box the size of a landuray basket. It was all the big stuff that I had to let go of.... Picture FRAMS, Vases, Glasses, even clothing that reminded me of that time..gifts he gave me... everything....
That helped so much. Ok I was in a drunken stumber at the time, which was not the right thing, but I needed to make the box....
Where was I going with this?...
Ohh yeah, forget about your stuff, let him deal with it... ifyou are like me you will only throw it away eventually anyways... what is the point of lugging around stuff that depresses you?
> Hi giget,
> You're right about that hanging on to the relationship through email, no question. We acually ended up *civil* yesterday --(it was hard, but I made myself). There are still a couple of things we have to work out about my getting my stuff back. I'm going over there today (with a kind friend who offered to go with me). That was how the emails started--mine was very terse and to the point asking when he might be away so I could come get my stuff, because I thought it would be easier when he wasn't there. He didn't like that, and we were off and running.
>
> But his last email was full of pleases and kindlys--we'll see how long that lasts. We both agreed we just need some time right now, before any rigorous analyzation. The heartbreak is that of course you're right; I don't think he'll change, or that intense psychotherapy will save us, and it's just another false hope to stay attached to.
>
> What kind of job are you looking for?
Posted by kara lynne on July 3, 2003, at 2:19:39
In reply to Re: Kara how are you fending?, posted by giget on July 2, 2003, at 12:11:09
What you said is all very true, and I'm full of mixed feelings. He wasn't there today and I did feel better getting the stuff outta there that I could. However there are still a couple of big, more expensive things that I really have to think about. I have to go over there *yet* again, and it is really difficult. Plus I would need at least two strong people and a truck, and then I'll just be moving again in a few weeks. I'm all befuddled.
It was a good thing my friend was with me. She helped me get rid of things and told me not to take this great, framed headshot of him. I think that was a good idea and I would have been inclined to take it. On the other hand she was unsentimental about other things she thought I could use and should take anyway. Some of it is ok, and some of it does trigger sadness, no doubt. And like you said, I may end up throwing it all away later anyway.
I am much sadder tonight then I have been in the last couple of days so I really wish I didn't have to go back. I'm looking back at his email and thinking "kindly" my **s. Who is he to be Mr. Kindly now, anyway. Asking about my life and my test like it mattered. I did ask him what happened to him talking on the phone about how I'm not doing anything with myself, and the worthlessness of my endeavors. Of course that put a stop to our friendly, kindly chat, and he said we "wouldn't open up these things that could only lead to pain right now", and that those were issues for the psychologist.
Grrrrrr. His big breakthrough yesterday was writing me that deep in his heart he believes "we are both truly effed up". I wrote him back that once again my heart quivered from his noble declarations of love.
Therapy? I don't think so. I can't see the point in banging my head against this wall any further.
Thanks for the tips giget, I really appreciate them. And I'll be on the lookout for that job!
This is the end of the thread.
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