![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 8 to 32 of 32. Go back in thread:
Posted by muffled on December 23, 2007, at 11:38:05
In reply to Re: So here's a question.... » caraher, posted by 10derHeart on December 23, 2007, at 11:31:16
OK guys.
So it would seem that I oughtta work on this at some point :-(
I was reading and part of me was feeling very scared.
Kinda sad too.
I feel bad for my hubby.
I don't understand how it is that it is such a big deal.
I have never experienced this 'connection' thing w/sex.
I think its cuz I keep all at a distance anyways.
I can't even TALK about sex, cuz I can't even barely talk about ME even irl.
I a mostly mute in T STILL, after over two years, cuz I get so freaked to talk bout myownself.
I feel like I have so so FAR to go yet :-(
So B4 sex can happen w/o terror, I gonna have to be able to speak of myself w/o fear and shame. I gonna have to be less split.
My poor hubby :-(
He don't even know whats going on really. I've told him its not him, its me, but thats bout it. He knows I am in T, but not eaxctly why.
I don't even know.
I am SCARERD TOO BAD to know cuz then there's sad I think and I have to run away cuz I DON'T WANTO KNOW.
I DON"T I DON'T.
You can't trust a childs mixed up memories. I got poor memory at best.
I am getting very bothered.
I am sorry.
I thank all for your answers.
For straight up, thats SO important to me.
This is one of those times where theres water wanting to be in my eyes but I not allowed.
Damn.
M
Posted by star008 on December 23, 2007, at 12:44:53
In reply to sigh..., posted by muffled on December 23, 2007, at 11:38:05
This is a tough one Muffled. the same thing happened to me when I started therapy.. i can't say I enjoyed sex with my ex.. I was never sober for it. After I started with T I found out what complying ws doing to me. Alot of it was his fault though since with him it wasn't a choice for me. He would get mad. T told me to stop having sex with him.. He said look what it is doing to you".. and yeah it screwed me up. yep,, days of feeling like sh...t. Was it fair to him to cut him out?? Well for me it was It was fair since he was a self-centered creep who couldn't see beyond himself. If he had been a different kind of man things could have been different. The feelings are hard to deal with at times but with the right partner sex can be a good thing.. I know, sounds yuck, hard to beleive.. It is different for me now.. I am not married and don't feel oligated to anyone so that probably helps. I did have a relationship a few years ago that helped me to get over the sex part.. I didn't have to dissociate anymore and never would have thought sex could be so gerat. Didn't work out for us in the end;( but it changed the way I felt about things.
Hubby needs to know at some point why things are so hard for you.. If you have the kind of relationship where you can open up.. Doesn't sound as though you do though..I tired with my ex and all he did was use it as ammunition later.. He just didn't get it.. what an ...ssIs it fair to him?? Well, I think not really if he is clueless and doesn't know why you don't want him. And guys are different.. Most of them need it way more than we do. That is just normal.
Sorry muffs that you have to go through this.. there are no easy answers.
Posted by muffled on December 23, 2007, at 13:00:16
In reply to sigh..., posted by muffled on December 23, 2007, at 11:38:05
To the world:
When my hubby comes close, a little voice squeaks, I squeak.
Then it says nooooooooooooo. So quietly. Desprately. It scrunches its face. It tries to go away. Then its just still, and someone else wails.And I have no idea why.
:-(
There.
Thats my post secret.
Posted by muffled on December 23, 2007, at 13:11:48
In reply to My post secret ** abuse trigger **, posted by muffled on December 23, 2007, at 13:00:16
I can feel it in my loins.
Its not a bad feeling.
But it makes me SICK.
Posted by seldomseen on December 23, 2007, at 14:38:53
In reply to sigh..., posted by muffled on December 23, 2007, at 11:38:05
Oh muffled, I am so sorry this is so triggery and awful for you. I know lady. I know.
First and foremost, you don't have to a damn thing about this if you don't want to. I can guarentee that the feelings you have are legitimate based on your history and, in my opinion, there is absolutely nothing wrong with where you are right now. YOU have active agency in your life and its your decision as to whether or not you want to try something different.
All I am saying is that, for me at least, it has been truly worth trying.
My poor T, I just unleashed all of the venom that I had held in for years. I really had made sex, men, feeling vulnerable the root of all evil in the world. I even hated being a woman and weak. Why wouldn't I? Up until then it HAD been the root of all evil.
Like I said, my T and I talked for YEARS about sex. My attitude wasn't something that changed overnight and I STILL work on it.
I would talk to my T first (and two years really isn't a long time with a therapist), but only when you are ready to and decide you want to. Again, this is entirely under your control and how you feel is right and normal (IMO) based on your history - and you don't even have to remember THAT, somehow our bodies just know.
Peace to you.
Seldom.
Posted by Wittgenstein on December 23, 2007, at 15:14:07
In reply to So here's a question...., posted by muffled on December 22, 2007, at 23:17:35
Muffled and others,
I have these same problems and as a result my partner and I almost never have sex. It affects other forms of intimate touch too - hugging, surprise touching or kissing - it makes me jump out of my skin - I tolerate it - I manage it by distancing/shutting myself off. For me, sex is a mechanical process, not something emotional, I'm not there. Before now I've had to run to the bathroom afterwards to throw up. I feel tremendous guilt for not fulfilling this part of the relationship. I'm lucky that my partner doesn't push me but I feel he doesn't deserve this.
You're not alone. I'm sorry you have this. It's hard, but what is positive to see is that other babblers who had similar problems have been able to work through them in therapy - so there's hope for us.
I was thinking about your last thread about whether sex is evil. Unfortunately sex is a tool for evil (as are many things - but sex gets a lot of attention for this) as well as something that gives great pleasure and even more essentially it gives life. With no sex there could be no good or evil - we depend on it, as many life forms do.
Something I do wonder whether others experience (and I feel a bit awkward to ask)... for those who have problems with physical intimacy in relationships i.e. problems with sexual touch, do you however engage in self-pleasure (masturbation)? What I mean is, do those who have problems with physical intimacy with others tend to have the same problems with intimacy with themselves? In my case, my mind isn't there either way - I just can't - I'm wondering whether this is mostly the case.
Witti
Posted by rskontos on December 23, 2007, at 15:48:04
In reply to Re: sigh... » muffled, posted by seldomseen on December 23, 2007, at 14:38:53
This whole thread has for me enlightened me to my own issues which from my long session with new doc made me realize that my own issues have been from a long standing position of hurt. I haven't viewed it from a position of evil only because I have used total dissociation from it as a way to shield myself totally. Intimacy as Caraher put it is something I have always not wanted intimacy is something your parents should naturally teach you to have, there is all types of intimacy. When you don't learn how to have it, then it is tough to teach it to yourself. In my own marriage we have just stumbled along blindly. I am not sure how we have made it actually but it has cost me huge. I have alot of work to do in that arena as well Muffled. So don't feel alone. And I have been married almost 20 years. I don't ever really want to have sex I do because I should. Sometimes I actually want to but those times are so few. They do happen, my husband always wants to know how and why so he could try and recreate those circumstances but I don't know. He tries to be as understanding as possible. He realized a long time ago that marriage is more that sex and he does value that. He would like more often but accepts my limitations. Without understanding why. I need to tell him more and will try at some point. I got mad at one point and told him it was my right to feel the way I felt and he could just lump it. And he realized that I was right. It was a turning point. So talking does help even if you can't explain everything which I haven't he knows about no parts yet. Just that I am depressed and you cant do that when depressed.
He knows that therapy is suppose to help with all of me. So he is hopeful.
I hope we both feel stronger and more peaceful in this area one day. Remember Rome was not built in a day. All things in time. Dont stress so much and don't worry bout everyone except Muffled. It is good you worry bout DH but worry bout Muffled too. I know you will try when you can. You can only do so much at one time. Too much will blow your mind. So take it one thing at a time. dont let guilt make you try too much too soon either . ok......
((((((((((((Muffled)))))))))
rskBut this good I think bout stuff too and it is all good too.
Posted by Dory on December 23, 2007, at 17:25:17
In reply to So here's a question...., posted by muffled on December 22, 2007, at 23:17:35
i'm not a man muffy.. but i was forced to go without sex.. i dont want to make you feel bad or anything like that, but this is honest from the other side... i felt punished and rejected. He had been abused sexually and had been in therapy several years. He and his therapist did not feel past abuse was an issue, but he would just withdraw all physical touch. It was painful for me. i felt very alone and very unattractive, unlovable.
some men withdraw sex as much as some women do and some women want sex as much as some men. There isn't any gender bias.
i have problems about sex because it was used against me... from both sides of the fence, taken and given. But i know i feel better in many ways when there is sex in my life. It is best when there is love and then the sex is meaningful. i have never wanted kids so there was no intent that way. i also have gotten emotional benefit from sex which was not tied to a relationship.
i sympathize, i empathize.. i really do. Sex is a complex thing. i suppose it's the culmination of physical affection or touch... and i can see how the psychological can override the physical drive. But for me.. even though i have been.. well.. *sigh.. on the wrong side of the power issue... the bigger issue in my life has been the lack of affection, the lack of touch. It hurts too.
Posted by muffled on December 23, 2007, at 19:24:00
In reply to Re: So here's a question.... long response sorry, posted by seldomseen on December 23, 2007, at 7:53:44
> Wow! I gotta say, yours is a problem that I've encountered myself.Not very repsonsive etc... Just going through the motions.
> It was sad really. Really sad.*Yeah, just doing what you got to do to get it OVER with as soon as possible.
> Well, I have a male therapist and we started talking about sex. I mean we talked about sex for years it feels like. I expressed my visions of sex and much like you, I thought it was a huge source of evil, but one I had to submit to because I was born a woman and that was part and parcel of our gender. I viewed it as bascially allowing myself to be raped.*Your brave with a MALE T!!!
I just feel like a piece of meat.
I know my hubby cares for me, but I still felt like meat.
Now even to try terrifys me.
> It was like my therapist made a vow to me to change my views about sex. He challenged me to talk about it with my male friends, my boyfriends - I mean everyone in addition to him.*and you DID!? You ARE brave!!!!!
> What I learned is that the overwhelming majority of men want the woman to be "there".*yeah....
> Yeah, they can get on top of anything and roll around (it's their nature, not bad, not good, just who men are hardwired to be)**ROFL!!! This made me laugh!!!
>but it is much better for them with a happy partner. > In short, they don't want a woman who feels obliged to do it, but who wants to.
> I took a huge chance in my latest relationship and talked about sex with my guy. I talked about my past and told him specific things that he could do, and that we could do to make sex better for me - less fear inducing and that it may be a good while before we could do it.
> He understood and for the first time in my life I had AMAZING sex.*really????? How long did it take? To be able to do it? Did you feel connected? Were you scared at first?
> Now I don't know about your DH, but it certainly sounds as though he is willing to meet you where you are and that means a lot.*yes he is a good man.
> I don't think you are obliged to do anything except to try - and not for him - but for yourself.*try what? I just CAN'T.
> Trust me. It's worth the effort. It really REALLY is.*OK. OK. I hear you. Sigh, I have in my mind a thot of how happy my hubby would be, how we could be bonded, and me not be ashamed. I DO want this to be.
Thanks seldomseen.
This is good stuff.
M
Posted by muffled on December 23, 2007, at 19:28:09
In reply to Re: So here's a question.... » muffled, posted by lovelorn on December 23, 2007, at 9:06:53
> I am not sure what DH is when I read it here. Part of marriage is supposed to be sex unless you both agree otherwise. It's part of the reason people get married. Is it fair to him? No, not really. Is it fair to you to force yourself and have a horrible experience since you really don't want it? No, not really either.
*I dunno what DH means!! LOL! for me it means dear husband!!!
My husband would never want to hurt me. So I suppose its mutual that we not have sex. But he would like to.
> I think the question is: do you want it to get better, do you want to try to enjoy sex for yourself and your hubby. Did you ever enjoy it with him or at some point in your life? If yes, then maybe that is something to bring up with your T to work on. If not, then that is something between you and your hubby to talk about and come to an understanding.*Hmmm, not exactly sure what you mean here? Sex has always been hard for me, but that doesn't mean I don't want to do it. And there IS a part that is mebbe OK w/it, but I can't seem to find that part. Others are stronger now.
> I don't have problems with sex. It's been a few years but if I should ever find a loving and caring partner, I know it can be a very good experience that brings you closer to the person you care about and love. It can fulfill some emotional needs and makes one feel less alone in the world.*OK. Its sounds like it might be a good thing.
I will keep thinking on this.
Thanks!
M
Posted by star008 on December 23, 2007, at 22:27:24
In reply to and you know whats worse? ** abuse trigger ** » muffled, posted by muffled on December 23, 2007, at 13:11:48
i know the loins feeling.. not bad but yuck.. and why gt that feeling about something that scares you and that you don't want? i know how you feel.. it is so hard.. your dh sounds like a good guy. it might take time but if he knew how you felt he would at least not be totally in the dark about things.. but how can u tell him?? i know.. too ashamed too confused. too many things going on at once for you..maybe you could talk to him and leave it vague but something like you are working on things and can't handle sex right now so he still feels loved and knows it isn't his fault
Posted by muffled on December 23, 2007, at 23:23:10
In reply to Re: So here's a question...., posted by caraher on December 23, 2007, at 9:22:12
> From my male perspective, what she says about men wanting the woman to "be there" is spot-on. Frankly, masturbation strikes me as a much better option.
*Well thats good. I dunno if my DH has a clue bout how to y'know M....
> Your question was, "Is it unfair for a wife to expect a DH to go w/o sex for years?" "How can I have an intimate relationship with my DH?" And don't misconstrue "intimate relationship" as a euphemism for sex, but take it at face value.* I am trying to be better at other things, but I not good at any kind of intimacy, period.
> I think he deserves to know how just hard sex is for you. The important part is to make it very clear that this is your problem with sex in general, and not something about him. When he "tries now and again" I think you do owe it to him to refuse with as much love and kindness and sympathy as you can muster. Sharing your innermost thoughts is always a hard thing, but if you can't do that your relationship cannot be considered very intimate, can it?*No, we love each other , but not intimate. I dunno bout that. Scares me somehow.
I have said to DH that its not him, but its me. I try not to be nasty. Cept one time, he kinda pushed a bit, and all I did was punch him in the arm, not very hard, but he scared me, and he was rather offended...:-(
> The critical thing from seldomseen's post is that you work toward becoming closer. Being closer includes sex, but that isn't necessarily the biggest or even most important part. But it is still a part you should not neglect.* an extreemly good point there....
> Another facet of your question is the way it focuses on your husband. You might ask yourself, is it unfair to *you*? Right now that question might seem absurd, given how you feel about sex. But enjoying sex within an intimate relationship is a genuine pleasure - why shouldn't you be able to have that? The day when that question starts to make sense may seem a long way off, but that doesn't mean you can't take steps in that direction.*oh. I guess I don't have a clue what I am missing so mostly it don't bother me. Cept one time someone tells me bout how wonderful it is to be w/her man, and I was kinda thinking...shitorama...hmmm, THAT sounds OK I guess...
I mostly feel selfish, cuz I did it before, why can't I just get past this and do it for him, even if I wooden bout it. Mebbe thats better than nothing.
> Fairness. I think your husband has the right to expect you to acknowledge as normal and healthy his need for some kind of sexual outlet. He should be able to "now and again" see whether your comfort zone has expended enough to accommodate his desires (and in turn you have the right to expect him to respect the boundaries of what feels safe to you when you communicate that to him). I think he would be within his rights to expect you to work towards a healthier view of sex. And you have the right to expect some things of him as well. If you were in an extended coma would it be "unfair" to expect him do forgo during that time? The way I see it, you are injured in a way that makes a "normal" sexual relationship impossible at the moment.*oh....you ARE saying clever things. i gonna have to digest this stuff some. Send it to T also if you don't mind?
I am trying to learn to not always blame myself and put myself down as being bad. To try and say its not all just my own damn fault. But its hard to refute that its NOT my own damn fault when I got not memories. So then I say...OK...I AM just being a selfish IDIOT. Arrgghhh. I gonna have to lokk thru this post. Its very good.>That's only "unfair" the way life seems cruel and unfair anytime someone has a horrible illness or injury. You aren't choosing to "punish" him (for whatever) by withholding sex; that could be unfair.
*NO! I want him to be happy. Thats why i feel so bad. SO bad. I KNOW it would bring him great happiness, and he is trying so hard to make me feel desirable etc.
God I just wish I could somehow do it, but I literally start feaking out, I can't stand the feeling of scaredness.
Thank you so much. You gave me much to think about.
M
Posted by muffled on December 23, 2007, at 23:25:00
In reply to Re: So here's a question...., posted by muffled on December 23, 2007, at 23:23:10
Posted by star008 on December 23, 2007, at 23:35:41
In reply to Re: So here's a question...., posted by muffled on December 23, 2007, at 23:23:10
muffled.. i ws once going out with a guy for awhile and he would just stop wanting sex. I would try to get him into the mood but he just never seemed to want to. i felt like it was me and there was something wrong with me. i was feeling ugly and fat because or it.. we finally talked about it and he told me it wasn't me at all.. It was just that thre was too much going on for him, (he used to get depressed too), and that he just wasn't feeling too sexy.. but I would have continued to think it was me if he didn't tell me that it wasn't me at all.. so maybe u can tell you h something so he isn't hurt
Posted by muffled on December 23, 2007, at 23:38:13
In reply to Re: and you know whats worse? ** abuse trigger ** » muffled, posted by star008 on December 23, 2007, at 22:27:24
> i know how you feel.. it is so hard..
*:-( I'm sorry you know how I feel. And I'm sorry you had such a rotten man B4 :-( I'm glad you are away from him.
>your dh sounds like a good guy. it might take time but if he knew how you felt he would at least not be totally in the dark about things.. but how can u tell him?? i know.. too ashamed too confused. too many things going on at once for you..maybe you could talk to him and leave it vague but something like you are working on things and can't handle sex right now so he still feels loved and knows it isn't his fault
*basically thats what I have blurted out to him in bits and pieces. Which is why he hasn't pushed more.
But I don't think he has ANY clue as to what I truly feel. And I don't want to tell him more cuz I don't want him to feel bad.
How would he feel if I told him "I love you, but your manness terrifys me, when you come near me I feel nautious and want to scream and run away....when you hear me make a funny noise when you are holding me, its not happy, it utter terror... AND I have no idea why...and yes, its new...and its not because of you..."? Somehow I don't think that could ever possibly make him feel good, and how can he understand?....
:-(
So mebbe I tell him just a bit more, but not too much...
I need to do something.
Its just so hard.
I never knew stuff could be like this.
I always dissociated B4.
No wonder I thot nothing was ever hard, why I thot always, this is not hard(when T would say ut was a hard session). Stuff WASN'T hard, in the moment, cuz I dissociated. It works very well. Until it falls apart....
Thanks star0008 for your support.
It helps.
I just hope I can help you somehow too.
M
Posted by muffled on December 23, 2007, at 23:53:08
In reply to Re: sigh... » muffled, posted by seldomseen on December 23, 2007, at 14:38:53
> Oh muffled, I am so sorry this is so triggery and awful for you. I know lady. I know.
*OMG, it was like my T was HERE. That line sounded SO much like my T!!! LOL, I bet I read it 100x!!!
It brought me great comfort. Thank you.
> First and foremost, you don't have to a damn thing about this if you don't want to.*again, just like my T! and also VERY comforting to be reminded that I am in control....
>I can guarentee that the feelings you have are legitimate based on your history and, in my opinion, there is absolutely nothing wrong with where you are right now.
*AGAIN, what wonderful affirmation.
I needed that.
I still struggle that nothing could've happened...
How could I NOT know??????>YOU have active agency in your life and its your decision as to whether or not you want to try something different.
* :-)
> All I am saying is that, for me at least, it has been truly worth trying.
Ok. I hear this.....there is hope. I don't care if I ever feel good, but I want to make hubby happy, and I expect that make me happy too.
> My poor T, I just unleashed all of the venom that I had held in for years.
*you yelled at him?!! I pretty tough on mine too.
> even hated being a woman and weak. Why wouldn't I? Up until then it HAD been the root of all evil.
*some of my 'peeps' seem to be male, cuz I think that made me feel safer. I was always a tomboy too. And extreemly strong for my size. I still struggle with showing weakness and letting others help. Babble has helped me in this way, alot. I can safely(relatively of course, this IS the internet!!) be weak and show my weakness.
> Like I said, my T and I talked for YEARS about sex. My attitude wasn't something that changed overnight and I STILL work on it.
*sigh...I hope for my DH sake its not too long...
> I would talk to my T first , but only when you are ready to and decide you want to. Again, this is entirely under your control and how you feel is right and normal (IMO) based on your history - and you don't even have to remember THAT, somehow our bodies just know.
*Oh crap. My body knows something. But I dunno what. I think there's parts that know more, but its kids, and those memories are more feelings, oh ya, implicit, rather than narrative memories???? or SOMEthing like that..
> Peace to you.*and to you too.
Thank you so much.
M
Posted by muffled on December 24, 2007, at 0:00:43
In reply to Re: So here's a question.... » muffled, posted by Wittgenstein on December 23, 2007, at 15:14:07
> I have these same problems and as a result my partner and I almost never have sex. I'm lucky that my partner doesn't push me but I feel he doesn't deserve this.
*yeah, feels bad don't it?
Also feels bad that we can't enjoy this thing called 'sex', thats supposed to be so wonderful and terribly important...:-( Makes me feel like some kind of reject or something :-(
> You're not alone. I'm sorry you have this. It's hard, but what is positive to see is that other babblers who had similar problems have been able to work through them in therapy - so there's hope for us.*ya, there's hope....it just seems so impossible, but I cling to some kind of hope.
> I was thinking about your last thread about whether sex is evil. Unfortunately sex is a tool for evil (as are many things - but sex gets a lot of attention for this) as well as something that gives great pleasure and even more essentially it gives life. With no sex there could be no good or evil - we depend on it, as many life forms do.*whoah...some deep thinking there! Sigh. Thats weird, how it gives life....like some kind of great cosmic joke :-(
Joke on me anyways :-(
> Something I do wonder whether others experience (and I feel a bit awkward to ask)... for those who have problems with physical intimacy in relationships i.e. problems with sexual touch, do you however engage in self-pleasure (masturbation)? What I mean is, do those who have problems with physical intimacy with others tend to have the same problems with intimacy with themselves? In my case, my mind isn't there either way - I just can't - I'm wondering whether this is mostly the case.*I can get my rocks off by myself. But its usu quickly and angrily. It seems to be a younger part, and it seems like its punishing itself or something, or its imagining someone punishing it?I dunno, its confusing. But there is often anger involved.
Thx witti.
M
So I guess thats not much of an answer.
Posted by muffled on December 24, 2007, at 0:06:27
In reply to Re: sigh...Muffled » seldomseen, posted by rskontos on December 23, 2007, at 15:48:04
>Intimacy as Caraher put it is something I have always not wanted intimacy is something your parents should naturally teach you to have, there is all types of intimacy. When you don't learn how to have it, then it is tough to teach it to yourself.
*yeah. To some extent I think I am hardwired to be less social, but I carry the "keep away" thing to the extreem. It IS tough to try and let others close. Goes against ALL rules.
>In my own marriage we have just stumbled along blindly. I am not sure how we have made it actually but it has cost me huge. I have alot of work to do in that arena as well Muffled. So don't feel alone. He tries to be as understanding as possible. So talking does help even if you can't explain everything
*Its amazing how you guys have made it! Your hubby sounds wonderful! It is SO hard to talk, but talk I must I guess...
> I hope we both feel stronger and more peaceful in this area one day. Too much will blow your mind. So take it one thing at a time. dont let guilt make you try too much too soon either . ok......
*some EXCELLENT points here...
> ((((((((((((Muffled)))))))))*(((( rsk))))Thanks!
> But this good I think bout stuff too and it is all good too.Glad it helps you too.
Thanks!
:-)
M
Posted by muffled on December 24, 2007, at 0:16:38
In reply to Re: So here's a question.... » muffled, posted by Dory on December 23, 2007, at 17:25:17
> but i was forced to go without sex.. i dont want to make you feel bad or anything like that, but this is honest from the other side... i felt punished and rejected. It was painful for me. i felt very alone and very unattractive, unlovable.
*yeah, I worry bout making my hubby feel bad. I thibk it is hurting him, and damaging our relationship...which is why it is getting ever higher on my list of what I MUST deal with...
> some men withdraw sex as much as some women do and some women want sex as much as some men. There isn't any gender bias.*true
> i have problems about sex because it was used against me... from both sides of the fence, taken and given. But i know i feel better in many ways when there is sex in my life. It is best when there is love and then the sex is meaningful. i have never wanted kids so there was no intent that way. i also have gotten emotional benefit from sex which was not tied to a relationship.*sigh, this is why I SO bad want to give this to my man. I love him, but I am defective :-(
He says to me, 'I married you for better or worse'....which could be construed as an insult, but I think its his way of saying, 'I'm here for the long haul'. (((Hubby)))
> i sympathize, i empathize.. i really do. Sex is a complex thing. i suppose it's the culmination of physical affection or touch... and i can see how the psychological can override the physical drive.* LOL. Yup, something about raw terror just kinda takes all the fun outta sex!
>But for me.. even though i have been.. well.. *sigh.. on the wrong side of the power issue... the bigger issue in my life has been the lack of affection, the lack of touch. It hurts too.
*Awww dear Dory. I know your a one for touch. Which I have always found so sad, cuz you nice, you should get affection. I wish you could have touch :-( But hard for me to understand, cuz I avoid it so. Opposite poles are we on the spectrum of touch! I am lucky, I have affection.
Dory, I hope you can get what you need.
Thanks for taking time and providing your perspective on this.
Its all good for me to know.
Take good care,
M
Posted by star008 on December 24, 2007, at 15:09:29
In reply to Re: and you know whats worse? ** abuse trigger ** » star008, posted by muffled on December 23, 2007, at 23:38:13
Muffled..
you help me all the time, you just don't know it..You have supported me everytime..You helped me alot just by noticing when I was gone.. You help me to get in touch with some of my stuff too.. And it helps me to tell you where I was so I know things do get better even if it does take so dm long. You are no more screwed up than me.
Really the way you put things would make sense to him, i think. Just leave out the nauseous part;(
You could tell him it is new and has nothing to do with him but has to do with a memory, some experience that you can't remember.. It would be hard but it might be a good thing to do for both of you. He would be able to approach you better then..Wouldn't it be cool if he could use his maleness to help you feel protected instead of threatened?? That would be so great for you..Wouldn't it be nice to have some big strong arms holding you and keeping you safe?? Ummm yuck, that was too much wasn't it??)lolMuffled, you might never know exactly WHY. I did have SA experiences that I remember but the kid that gets so scared is too young to fit into the ones i remember. I can only suspect there was more.. My sister has done exactly wht you want to do.. She has run away crying and hid in a corner. She doesn't remember either. WTF happened?? MY Ikid gets really scared of my T sometimes just because of his maleness..
YOU might not know WHY exactly, but somehow you do know why..You know that something happened to the Ikid that gets so scared and both of us have a pretty good idea of wht that was. It's vague but we know what would make a kid respond that way. I think sometimes it might be harder not to remember cuz you are stuck being confused and not knowing why.. we can only guess..
it's gonna be okay muffs.. this part does get better.. u have to take my word for it.. i wish i was there and could help you more when you need it. Of course you would tell me to go home cuz you would get sick and tired of my speeches!!!
I don't know you but i really do care about you..
k.. enough of the sappy sh///t.. have a nice holiday
Posted by muffled on December 25, 2007, at 15:00:17
In reply to Re: and you know whats worse? ** abuse trigger ** » muffled, posted by star008 on December 24, 2007, at 15:09:29
>And it helps me to tell you where I was so I know things do get better even if it does take so dm long. You are no more screwed up than me.
*I love the way your mind works! Things DO get better. I am better in many ways. Worse in some :-( But I think thems just growing pains...
> Really the way you put things would make sense to him, i think. He would be able to approach you better then.*yeah, I DID say a bit more, but not much. I'll just keep spitting out bits and pieces...
>Wouldn't it be cool if he could use his maleness to help you feel protected instead of threatened?? That would be so great for you..Wouldn't it be nice to have some big strong arms holding you and keeping you safe?? Ummm yuck, that was too much wasn't it??)lol
*ROFL!!!! Nah!!! Its was kinda like a harlequin romance novel!!! ROFL, I was LOVING reading it!! LOL!!!
Its weird, I have taken care of myownself for so long...and I tried to take care of my FOO (family of origin) as well when I was younger.I take care of my IRL kids. Its a stretch to iamgine anyone caring for ME! I am TRYING to learn to lean on others,to allow them to care for me, and I have done so some, but its a tough go when I been so independant from such a young age. I depended on noone but myself.
> Muffled, you might never know exactly WHY. I did have SA experiences that I remember but the kid that gets so scared is too young to fit into the ones i remember. I can only suspect there was more.. My sister has done exactly wht you want to do.. She has run away crying and hid in a corner. She doesn't remember either. WTF happened?? MY Ikid gets really scared of my T sometimes just because of his maleness..*its horrible not knowing...
My young one has no words, so I doubt I will EVER *know*. So I just feel like a drama queen idiot, somehow looking for attn, or an excuse for being such a loser, SOMEthing....> YOU might not know WHY exactly, but somehow you do know why..You know that something happened to the Ikid that gets so scared and both of us have a pretty good idea of wht that was. It's vague but we know what would make a kid respond that way. I think sometimes it might be harder not to remember cuz you are stuck being confused and not knowing why.. we can only guess..
*again it is awful not knowing why, cuz also we can deny that way. And like your sis, parts of us still do vehemently deny.
I still hope that mebbe the kid just somehow got something wrong. That the emots are about something less shameful.
And its awful not knowing, cuz I dunno if I just being a fool and making sh*t up and tormenting myself somehow, some kind of factitious disorder, and if I just get a grip, I will realize its all not true, the feelings and stuff. That its all just fake and made up. And then I can say AHA. I be shamed for being a liar and drama queen, BUT YAY, I will no longer be tainted in my soul.
But sh*t comes at me.
Its so hard to deny.
And sometimes, with releif, I stop denying(mostly...) for a bit. But then I feel bad feelings, and I don't want them, don't like them, am afraid to accept them, and I run away and deny some more...
So, you remember abuse but sis doesn't? She honsestly don't remmeber? But you SURE she WAS abused? Cuz thats the other thing I struggle with....SURELY I would remember something so scarey....how can I NOT remember....
As you can see....this is a huge struggle for me :-(
I think that it is OK though, I am giving myself permission to take it slow, to not rush to acceptance, to allow denial, cuz the reality is too awful to me. So bit, by bit, my resistance is chipped, my denial is chipped away.
> it's gonna be okay muffs.. this part does get better.. u have to take my word for it.. i wish i was there and could help you more when you need it. Of course you would tell me to go home cuz you would get sick and tired of my speeches!!!*Nah, I love the way you talk. You got humour and that is HUGE for me. W/O humour I'da succumbed a long time ago.
> I don't know you but i really do care about you..
> k.. enough of the sappy sh///t.. have a nice holiday*OH SAPPY!!!
Mebbe we call you sappy008!!! ROFL!!! I didn't find this sappy. I found it beautiful and sweet. And truly....what IS wrong w/sappy anyhow???? :-)
Take care, this was a wonderful post for me to read.
M
Posted by star008 on December 25, 2007, at 19:21:03
In reply to Re: and you know whats worse? ** abuse trigger ** » star008, posted by muffled on December 25, 2007, at 15:00:17
you know i was reading waht you wrote and i had to red it twice to make sure i didn't write it.. i feel like a drama queen too..like i am making stuff up.
my sister doesn't remember anything.. she doesn't even remember most of her childhood.. we talk about things and she doesn't have any memory of even simple things. i remember abuse but not abuse she was in. Buti don't remember the early that my Ikid feels.. I don't remember that at all.. it's like i feel it but I have no idea what it is.. yep,, just like you.. like did anythng happen at all or is all in my twisted mind??
Posted by rskontos on December 25, 2007, at 20:28:46
In reply to Re: and you know whats worse? ** abuse trigger ** » star008, posted by muffled on December 25, 2007, at 15:00:17
Muffled, the book I am reading says there is a % of the abused that never remember and it is because when you dissociate during it in that hazy state it is remembered hazy and becomes very hard to be remembered. So it is not uncommon for those that are abused and it can be verified for the abused person who dissociated during the trauma not to ever remember. It is just up to the individual.
So you really cant expect remembering to help you verify to yourself you aren't making it up. The book also states that to the author you don't make something up only to argue with yourself whether it is true or not if you have really made it up. (Not the authors words me praphasing). Did that make sense. In other words. People who make stuff up are usually convinced it happened they don't go back and recant. I mean we dont come out with this just to say no it is true and then no it isn't and then yes it is all for attention. Because this is not the kind anyone wants. I always thought this is what might get you locked up forever. Who wants that kind of attention. And what would anyone gain from making it up.
I mean yes the book I read talks about those people with delusions that makes this up. But we all have been talking to you for a long time and no one thinks you have delusions.
YOu are just as scared now to face what may have happened as then. Me too but I would like to get past it. And I think at some point I must face. And the body remembers even if we can't that is why we feel scared, anxious, and all those over feelings of terror. Now the sex thing, I am just as unsure of it as you. I don't know. I have my suspicions. I even ask my new doc about it and said it probably doesnt matter at my age. WFT was I thinking. I know I have no thoughts about it. Does that mean something. I dont know. As he might say I have worked hard not to have thoughts.
Don't feel like a drama queen idiot. I still maintain something made you feel the way you do. None of us just feel the way we do for nothing. I believe that. I don't know if we will ever have all the pieces. I think we can move past it once we know that is all we know and we have someone, T or doc, that can help us move past and it is time and we must for our own sakes. I mean right. I guess I just hope to have some sense of being more not so fragmented and to feel so broken. And somebody has to help cause I know I can't do it alone.
Muffled, I think Star has some good ideas. I know you were taking care of yourself for a long time. which makes it time you let someone help. Are you not tired of doing it alone. And those big strong arms might make it easier too. A thought to ponder maybe. I too have never let anyone else take care of me. But that isn't too say we can't LET, some share the task. Just think about it. Talk to t an d see if sharing with your h is ok. Maybe borrowing some of his independence so you can move on will work. It might be ok to borrow so you can let go alittle more. Just more thoughts.
Hope you had a good Christmas.
take care, later gator
rsk
Posted by muffled on December 29, 2007, at 19:13:37
In reply to Re: and you know whats worse? ** abuse trigger ** » muffled, posted by star008 on December 25, 2007, at 19:21:03
> you know i was reading waht you wrote and i had to red it twice to make sure i didn't write it.. i feel like a drama queen too..like i am making stuff up.
*Mebbe you are like me. Cuz of parts.
I just posted as how I STILL can deny, even as I gaze at words I wrote that say otherwise, rather plainly so. I still deny. There is a part that SO strongly denies. Its bizarre to that part all this SA stuff. Its bizarre to me that that part denies....
> my sister doesn't remember anything.. she doesn't even remember most of her childhood.. we talk about things and she doesn't have any memory of even simple things. i remember abuse but not abuse she was in. Buti don't remember the early that my Ikid feels.. I don't remember that at all.. it's like i feel it but I have no idea what it is.. yep,, just like you.. like did anythng happen at all or is all in my twisted mind??*sigh, not to bug you, don't answer if this is triggery.
I am the same in that I remember very little of childhood. My sisters do, but I don't. They don't have anything too bad to say. But at least one sibling(the one next to me) has 'issues' for sure, but she denies anything bad as well....
Yeah, I think its called implicit memory or something. Its not got words. It could be that it was pre verbal for the child. It could be just how the memory was stored in your brain. It might have been broken up for storage cuz it was just too hard for the child to deal with all of it at once.
I guess....I should listen to myself...
But I guess we do goto trust what our bodies feel, and what little info those young kids send us...
I guess...
I am thinking more and more that we gonna have to deal specifically with them kids....
Take care,
M
Posted by muffled on December 29, 2007, at 19:28:01
In reply to Re: and you know whats worse? ** abuse trigger **, posted by rskontos on December 25, 2007, at 20:28:46
> Muffled, the book I am reading says there is a % of the abused that never remember and it is because when you dissociate during it in that hazy state it is remembered hazy and becomes very hard to be remembered.
*this seems logical. Really, how does people expect us to remember, THEY don't remember stuff from that young either most people...
> So you really cant expect remembering to help you verify to yourself you aren't making it up.*yeah...I dunno why I have a part that is SO in denial.
>I mean we dont come out with this just to say no it is true and then no it isn't and then yes it is all for attention. Because this is not the kind anyone wants.*It was SO huge for me when I finally understood bout my
'peeps'. It explained SO much.
But with more knowledge, it becomes harder to deny. So I try to ALSO deny 'peeps' too.
It just makes me feel so bad to say it could be true.
I just don't want it to be.
And its not even that bad for me.
It doesn't involve a trusted person I don't think. And that makes it way worse.
I dunno why it bugs me so much. I think mebbe I just was a oversensitive kid, and my trust in humanity and the world, and God, was broken early is all.> I mean yes the book I read talks about those people with delusions that makes this up. But we all have been talking to you for a long time and no one thinks you have delusions.
*thank you. Thats very good to hear. I have said that to myself when I am trying to deny the denial. I say to that part, that if I was a faker, then the babblers would know. They "know" bout this stuff. They would notice. I post what I think/feel, w/o trying to be like others. I post my own experience. Also when I read stuff on 'net' sometimes I just 'get' it. Totally. Stuff that I realize in retrospect, I could not possibly 'get', unless I 'knew' somehow. :-(
And yet.....that part still hollers at me that I fulla sh*t. That I am a weeny whining idiot.> YOu are just as scared now to face what may have happened as then. Me too but I would like to get past it. And I think at some point I must face.
*Me too.
> Don't feel like a drama queen idiot. I still maintain something made you feel the way you do. None of us just feel the way we do for nothing. I believe that. I don't know if we will ever have all the pieces. I think we can move past it once we know that is all we know and we have someone, T or doc, that can help us move past and it is time and we must for our own sakes. I mean right. I guess I just hope to have some sense of being more not so fragmented and to feel so broken. And somebody has to help cause I know I can't do it alone.*yeah....I kinda wish there was a roadmap.....
> Muffled, I think Star has some good ideas. I know you were taking care of yourself for a long time. which makes it time you let someone help. Are you not tired of doing it alone.*yeah....its hard to let go...
> Hope you had a good Christmas.*yeah went OK. Hope yours was OK too.
> take care, later gator*In awhile crocodile
Thanks,
M
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