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Re: more stuff Elizabeth

Posted by Lorraine on October 2, 2001, at 14:14:34

In reply to Re: more stuff Lorraine, posted by Elizabeth on October 1, 2001, at 13:20:33


[re condoms] > > > > But in what way do they feel different to you? I'd expect a man to have an opinion, but most women I've talked to about the subject (surprisingly many) don't seem to care,

Take your left hand and wrap it around the index finger on your right hand. Now put on a thin latex glove and do the same thing. Do you feel the difference? That's as close as I can get to describing it.

> > >they insist on using condoms for safety reasons (mostly -- keep in mind, I'm at the tail-end of "gen-x" so these are people who don't remember much of the seventies or anything of the sixties).

These are compelling reasons. I have residual STDs from the sixies that effect my life (please don't ask for details). Also the concept of responsibility is great. But if you get into a long term committed relationship and are choosing contraception, my hunch is that the decision gets based on how much the contraception interferes with sex. I was on the pill for at least 15 years, then used an IUD, then my husband got a vasectomy. The pill didn't bother me, but my doctor wanted me off it when I reached a certain age so I used the IUD. I was very resistant to the idea of using an IUD--I had endometriosis and it isn't really recommend for people who have painful periods--but I found that the IUD was absolutely great. I had it in for 7 years, then renewed for another 5 or so.

> > > Sure; there are neuropeptides called endorphins and enkephalins. Drugs don't really do anything new; there's a reason why we have opioid receptors -- because we have an endogenous opioid system. Well, the "reason" I gave is only the tip of the iceberg, of course. The opioid receptor was (I think) the first one to be discovered, and a while back there was research into "enkephalinase inhibitors" (which would work like MAOIs only on endogenous opioids instead of monoamines) which my s.o. was involved with. The problem turned out to be that there was no such thing as "enkephalinase." < g >

This is too funny. But is further demonstrated by the fact that the active ingredient in an antidepressant my not be the obvious but rather the metabolites. Bottom line--we don't have a clue.

> > > It's possible that I would want to see this guy individually--but I guess I would want to have a touchy-feeling therapist on the side to pick up the pieces from some of the realizations.
> I can't deal with the touchy-feely types, myself. They nauseate me.

Man, you are really one tough nut, aren't you< vbg >?

> > He believes that Austin does not have a biochemical thing going on b/c his behavior only occurs in the family and not in school or with his friends. But then I know that sometimes we can just hold things together until we are in a safe place like home when things unwind.
> I agree. My guess is that he knows little or nothing about the endogenous side of things (or he denies it because he sees it as a threat to him professionally), and he's making assumptions based on what boil down to old wives' tales.

You may ber right, but during our initial consultation he did say that young boys (13) with aggression issues sometime have a deficiency in serotonin and too much testosterone aggravates the issue. After reading fairly extensively on the issue, it looks like they end up categorizing teenage boys with aggression issues into two camps--those that use aggression defensively (lots of these kids are abused in the family and aggressive outside the family) and kids that are use aggression offensively (bullies--or alpha males). The kids that use aggression offensively they are saying do not have a chemical imbalance. Now whether this is all poppy-cock, who knows. It's a theory.

> > He views Austin as an alpha male who has learned to bully--which does make sense.
> Oh jeez, here come the gender stereotypes.

Elizabeth, I am as feminist as they come. I have pursued careers dominated by males most of my life (law and being the Chief Operating Officer of an entertainment company). My whole career was spent with me being the only woman in a meeting of 12 males. When I was an attorney in an aerospace company I never spoke with a woman in performing my job. There were no other women in management. I have always believed that the way society views and raises children is the most important factor in determining "male" and "female" attributes. Blah, blah, blah. Then I had children and wala ala kazam I saw things differently. My son had no toy guns; my daughter no Barbie dolls. I gave my son a toy baby when he was young; I nurtured and cultivated his tender side. I encouraged my daughter to do team sports (she refused)--she is taking Kung Fu. You get the point. Anyway, my son is such an alpha male, I can't tell you. And my daughter is such sweetness and light. My conclusion is that we are not so removed from the chimps after all. I still think the thing to do is to cultivate the masculine in the daughter and cultivate the feminine in the son. It does pay off just not in the ways I expected.

> > > I don't think you've mentioned his age. ?

He's 13 and 5'9" to my 5'4".

> > > Anyway, I think that I will have Austin tested meanwhile in case there is something physical and not just biological going on.
> What kind of tests do you expect will be helpful?

Yes, that is the question, isn't it? I guess DSM category test. Psychological testing. I guess I could do an EEG or QEEG.

> > > (I've gotten pretty cynical about such tests, especially in the last couple of weeks, after a battery of various tests failed to identify anything that might account for what a number of different doctors, including several neurologists and psychiatrists, feel was almost certainly a complex partial seizure.)

I'm sorry. You do drop these rather low key bomb shells, don't you? What on earth happened, elizabeth? Complex means no physical convultions? What were you're symptoms and when did this happen?

My pdoc says my QEEG revealed MILD temporal lobe epilepsy type stuff--which apparently can be assoiciated with both panic/anxiety and depression. Jensen says tegretal is supposed to be the best for this type of disorder (i think you said use the kinder more gentle cousin drug--called?). My notes on what he says read "rarely depressed patients have symptoms of partial seizure of which 85% show remarkable improvement on Tegretal. Seizure can cause anxiety. Epileptic depression is greater than that of other chronic neurologic diseases. Originating particularly in the left ermporal hemisphere, it resembles major depression and responds especially well to Tegretal. (Carrieri et al 1993)." Do you think this is what is going on with you? Elizabeth, read my post to Shelli--where I talk about some possible seizure like symptoms that I have been having--2 car accidents in 3 weeks; olfactory hallucination. Curious about your thoughts and also about what is going on with you.

> > > I wouldn't put it that way, but yes, you could say that. The "lower brain" is very old, even reptiles have it. It controls emotions and other basic functions. The neocortex, unique to humans, is thought to be involved in our apparently unique facility with language, and probably a lot of other stuff.

You know we are talking concepts here--so sometimes people try to bolster a concept with physical evidence when the concept is really what is important.

> > > "When he was good he was very, very good, but when he was bad he was horrid?"

Very true:-) Mother's wisdom survives.

> > > (I should be one to talk. My boyfriend said that talking to me in my (putatively postictal) confusional state was like trying to talk to a caveman or something. I got a real kick out of that.)

e--I really appreciate your intellect but what the h*** is "putatively postictal". There is a woman in my NDMDA group that says that her boyfried calls her "psycho" and says "that's ok; everybody's a bit psycho".

> > > In spite of everything, our emotions can still overcome our capacity for reason. One has to understand this in order to have a feel for what mental illness is (IMO).

Absolutely, this guy (who you can see is my new guru) says that when you are depressed or anxious you should not trust or follow your thoughts--you should turn off the self talk and try to find a way to shift your mood (walking, music, movie, message, sitting in sun, reading, sex--what ever) and your thoughts will follow. I think he is right about this.

> > My Nardil is making me anxious--hyperventilate and also lowering my energy level (or not helping it). I'm taking 22.5 in the am and 15 in the afternoon (3:oo pm).
> Well that's good, you're getting up into the might-possibly-be-effective range. Try to make at least 45 mg/day a target (not necessarily a final target, since I think most people need at least 60, but a target where you should expect to be getting some benefit out of it).

Well, that is my plan and I am trying to stick it out and wait out the side effects.

> > I never fully recover from the pm dose drowsiness and sludge through my evening with no energy and without much mood support.
> I'm not sure if that's a result of the PM dose or if it's part of the disruptive effect that phenelzine has on circadian rhythms.

I now take my pm dose at 4 or 5 pm. I can feel myself come "off" the Nardil and crash about 10 or 11. When I took my pm dose at 1 or 2, I crashed at 6 or 7. I have found my lowest point is at 4 or 5. When I take my blood pressure then, it has clearly dipped 97/63. I am convinced that this dip is the sluggishness and that the way to combat it is either salt tablets (which I have and will try) or low blood pressure medication.

> > >I had nighttime insomnia.

I can see that happening.

> > > You know, the first time I took Valium (5 mg) it knocked me on my *ss too. Everafter, it has been completely nonsedating, even when I tried as much as 40 mg in a single dose. I guess my brain is pretty adaptive (a mixed blessing).

You are right, I'm not permitting my body to adapt.

> > Does this sound like a pattern that will ultimately yield success to you?
> I don't presume to know such things. But I hope it will.

I am so disappointed with you,e. You presume to know (and do know) so many things, why not predict the future?

> > It is getting hard to hang in there with this trial. Is is now day 18 on Nardil.
> How many days have you been taking >30 mg?

12 days 30 mgs or more and 7 days 45 mgs. You're not calling me impatient are you< vbg >?

> > My memory is really terrible right now also--like losing my way on the way to the store not once but twice.
> you think that's a problem with memory, or attentiveness?

Attentiveness is right. But some of it fairly extreme--2 accidents in two weeks.

Anyway, I will see my pdoc maybe today and I will try to focus on anticonvulsants and antianxiety meds. My list includes Buspar (med chart shows I had some response to this previously at least sexually); Betaxolol (you talked about this earlier as well), Clonidine and Tegretal's kinder gentler cousin. By the way, Jensen says the benzodiazepine w/drawal increases calcium flux from hippocampus and in rats produces anxiety response that was reversed by verapamil (File et al 1993) and that Clinidine also helps with benzodiazepine w/drawal (Baumgartner et al 1991).

Effexor, being the exception, took 3 weeks for me to feel much better.
> But it worked -- why did you switch?

45 lbs and no sexual interest whatsoever. Marriage was suffering big time. It was awful. My husband was not at his best.





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