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Re: more stuff Lorraine

Posted by Elizabeth on October 5, 2001, at 12:15:39

In reply to Re: more stuff Elizabeth, posted by Lorraine on October 2, 2001, at 14:14:34

Re condoms: [this is way OT, isn't it? :-) ]
> Take your left hand and wrap it around the index finger on your right hand. Now put on a thin latex glove and do the same thing. Do you feel the difference? That's as close as I can get to describing it.

Okay. I don't have any latex gloves handy, so I'll just have to take your word for it. :-)

> These are compelling reasons. I have residual STDs from the sixies that effect my life (please don't ask for details).


> Also the concept of responsibility is great.

It's great as a concept; in actual practise.... < g >

> But if you get into a long term committed relationship and are choosing contraception, my hunch is that the decision gets based on how much the contraception interferes with sex.

Here you get into a spot where both partners have to demand monogamy of one another. I think it's important that everyone feel comfortable being honest with their partner if they hook up with someone (even if they are using condoms). So if you can pull that off, I think that's great, but I wonder how likely it is.

> I was on the pill for at least 15 years, then used an IUD, then my husband got a vasectomy.

IUD? Yikes, you're dating yourself again! :-)

> The pill didn't bother me, but my doctor wanted me off it when I reached a certain age so I used the IUD.

That's weird, that your doctor wanted you to go off the pill. When I was in college (pretty recent history) it seemed like the doctors & nurses at the med center were encouraging (perhaps even pressuring) just about all women students to take the pill. They actually suggested to me that I take the pill to prevent menstrual cramps. Kinda creepy, IMO. (It turned out that all I needed was a stronger NSAID than the OTC ones I'd tried.)

> I was very resistant to the idea of using an IUD--I had endometriosis and it isn't really recommend for people who have painful periods--but I found that the IUD was absolutely great. I had it in for 7 years, then renewed for another 5 or so.

Huh. That's good, that it wasn't a problem for you. I don't know anybody else who's used one (well, that is, I don't know anybody else who's used one well enough that she would have told me about it < g >).

> But is further demonstrated by the fact that the active ingredient in an antidepressant my not be the obvious but rather the metabolites.

Yes, that's called a prodrug -- an inactive drug whose activity is owed to its metabolites. Codeine is an example: it doesn't work for people who don't metabolise it into morphine. Other opioids have active metabolites -- for example, oxycodone is metabolised to oxymorphone (active) as well as noroxycodone (inactive). But oxycodone itself has some effect too, so it's not considered a prodrug. (I think that very little of it is transformed into oxymorphone, actually. Oxymorphone (brand name NuMorphan) is a very strong opioid, one of the ones that are pretty much only prescribed to people who have cancer and the like. Dilaudid (hydromorphone) is another (better-known) such drug.)

I've heard it suggested that Wellbutrin might be a prodrug. Bupropion itself doesn't seem to do very much in the dose range that's used clinically, but it has multiple metabolites that might be responsible for its AD effects.

> > I can't deal with the touchy-feely types, myself. They nauseate me.
> Man, you are really one tough nut, aren't you< vbg >?

Dunno about the "tough" part...

> You may ber right, but during our initial consultation he did say that young boys (13) with aggression issues sometime have a deficiency in serotonin and too much testosterone aggravates the issue.

That would be an oversimplification.

> The kids that use aggression offensively they are saying do not have a chemical imbalance. Now whether this is all poppy-cock, who knows. It's a theory.

I think that the term "chemical imbalance" would have to be defined in order for it to be a theory!

> > Oh jeez, here come the gender stereotypes.
> Elizabeth, I am as feminist as they come.

I don't doubt it. It sounds like we've had some similar experiences (being the only woman in various groups, that is). But anyway, I think that stereotyping men and boys is just as irrational as stereotyping women and girls, and causes just as much trouble. This is not to say that I don't believe there are any intrinsic differences between the sexes. But I want to see those differences delineated and studied scientifically, and not accepted prima facie. This isn't to say that your experience with your children isn't valid. I have no children myself and probably never will, but I know a lot of parents who feel the way you do. It's hard to do a controlled experiment with kids, though, because sooner or later they are going to get a taste of the popular media, and one thing that all kids do (except maybe if they're B.F. Skinner's kids < g >) is interact with other kids. It's hard to control for these effects.

I think it's important that children be taught, explicitly, about the existence of gender stereotypes (and other stereotypes, for that matter) and that parents discuss this stuff with their kids. (One simple way to bring it up is to point out stereotypes on TV.) I think that this sort of interaction with children helps teach them to think critically so that they can deal with new issues that arise in life.

> I still think the thing to do is to cultivate the masculine in the daughter and cultivate the feminine in the son. It does pay off just not in the ways I expected.

How do you think it has payed off?

> He's 13 and 5'9" to my 5'4".

That must be awkward!

> > What kind of tests do you expect will be helpful?
> Yes, that is the question, isn't it? I guess DSM category test. Psychological testing. I guess I could do an EEG or QEEG.

I don't think there is a particular DSM test -- the doctor (or other clinician) just tries to get a handle on the symptoms by observation. I'm interested in how some doctors have been able to make predictions about what treatment will be effective based on EEGs and brain imaging.

I haven't been very impressed by psychological tests such as the MMPI, and I hate the idea that people are pigeonholed because of their responses on such tests.

> I'm sorry. You do drop these rather low key bomb shells, don't you?

Uhh...I dunno. What would that mean?

> What on earth happened, elizabeth? Complex means no physical convultions? What were you're symptoms and when did this happen?

I posted about it, different thread (

> My pdoc says my QEEG revealed MILD temporal lobe epilepsy type stuff--which apparently can be assoiciated with both panic/anxiety and depression.

It sure can.

> Jensen says tegretal is supposed to be the best for this type of disorder (i think you said use the kinder more gentle cousin drug--called?).

That's right -- I'm taking Trileptal (oxcarbazepine). I don't think it's been tested much in psych disorders, but Tegretol has and it does work for a lot of people who don't respond to conventional ADs. (I haven't noticed anything from the Trileptal, BTW.)

> Elizabeth, read my post to Shelli--where I talk about some possible seizure like symptoms that I have been having--2 car accidents in 3 weeks; olfactory hallucination. Curious about your thoughts and also about what is going on with you.

It does sound like you could be having seizures. (the pot smoke thing made me laugh, BTW. :-) ) I'd say it's crucial that you get this under control, whatever it is, because of the car accidents. Highway hypnosis is one thing, but when you actually black out while driving, that's just dangerous.

> You know we are talking concepts here--so sometimes people try to bolster a concept with physical evidence when the concept is really what is important.

I know what you mean, but in this case the "reptilian brain" actually does correspond to something.

> e--I really appreciate your intellect but what the h*** is "putatively postictal".

"putatively" = allegedly, supposedly

"postictal" = following a seizure

> There is a woman in my NDMDA group that says that her boyfried calls her "psycho" and says "that's ok; everybody's a bit psycho".

I guess it's all a matter of context!

> Absolutely, this guy (who you can see is my new guru) says that when you are depressed or anxious you should not trust or follow your thoughts--you should turn off the self talk and try to find a way to shift your mood (walking, music, movie, message, sitting in sun, reading, sex--what ever) and your thoughts will follow.

That works for a lot of people, I think. Wish I was one of them. (I really got into CBT for a while -- I was convinced it was going to "fix" me -- and the behaviour- >mood thing, like you describe, was a big deal, but in the end I just couldn't make it work.)

> Well, that is my plan and I am trying to stick it out and wait out the side effects.

I hope they become manageable. Hang in there.

> When I take my blood pressure then, it has clearly dipped 97/63. I am convinced that this dip is the sluggishness and that the way to combat it is either salt tablets (which I have and will try) or low blood pressure medication.

I would try salt first (did I ever tell you about my magical potion of McDonald's french fries and Gatorade?). The main medication used for this is a steroid that might have nasty side effects of its own.

> > I don't presume to know such things. But I hope it will.
> I am so disappointed with you,e. You presume to know (and do know) so many things, why not predict the future?

You'd better be joking here. :-)

> > How many days have you been taking >30 mg?
> 12 days 30 mgs or more and 7 days 45 mgs. You're not calling me impatient are you< vbg >?

No, I can understand how you're feeling, with all the side effects and not getting anything positive out of it. But I encourage you to stick it out. There might be ways that you can alleviate some of the side effects.

> Anyway, I will see my pdoc maybe today and I will try to focus on anticonvulsants and antianxiety meds.

That sounds like a plan. Let me know how it went.

> By the way, Jensen says the benzodiazepine w/drawal increases calcium flux from hippocampus and in rats produces anxiety response that was reversed by verapamil (File et al 1993) and that Clinidine also helps with benzodiazepine w/drawal (Baumgartner et al 1991).

I've also heard of people using Neurontin and other anticonvulsants.

> Effexor, being the exception, took 3 weeks for me to feel much better.

Exception to...?

> > But it worked -- why did you switch?
> 45 lbs and no sexual interest whatsoever.

'Nuff said! :-) That sex thing seems to be really hard to treat, especially the loss-of-interest.





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