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Re: hanging in there » shelliR

Posted by Lorraine on October 2, 2001, at 10:00:41

In reply to Re: hanging in there » Lorraine, posted by shelliR on September 29, 2001, at 20:18:11

Hello Shelli:

> > > I think it will, only for the last two days I have lay down, setting my clock for a 30minute nap, and woken up three hours later. I have been very very tired. I'm not sure why, whether the oxy at night is affecting the quality of my sleep. All the sudden I went from very stimulated on the oxy and wellbutrin to very sleepy. But I'm not going to worry about it yet, although certainly I can't live this way. Sometimes I am like this premenstrually, but I can't figure out my cycle at all now, to see if it's related.

Maybe with the increase in oxy you need to increase the Wellbutrin?

> > > >Oh, and I am up to 45 mg of nardil (well, I'm alternating every other day with 30mg, instead of splitting pills).

What does this mean? 60 mg one day and 30 the other? Any reason for not splitting? I'm at 45 with splitting.

> > > He told me the other doctor's name, but I already forget. And I'll have to wait a bit to work it into a conversation so I can get it there again (without hurting my pdoc's feelings).

Don't you hate that? Pay attention to these things, shelli! I have the suspicion that oxy and other opiates are being used with fms patients, who frequently (always) have depression as well as tender points and that this is how its use is spreading.

> If my the physical elements of my depression really go away, then how much more therapy will I need? I talked some with my therapist about this on Thursday and we also used EMDR to start to process how much of my life I have missed. I am so so sad, under the depression. I am not ready to be my age. I want those years back. Things that I was working on two years ago when everything (with the exception of survival and work came to a halt.) But there were lots of years lost before that because of my self-image, because of my dissociation, etc. So, now, if I depression is sad, and I have mourned enough, what is next in my life. Am I up to the challenge of looking for an emotiona/sexual relationship, and do I really think I have the potential to love someone fully. I don't know, and I'm not even sure I want to go through all the effort.

When we are depressed we can make up issues--really just attach the feelings to events with self talk. If this is the case then the need for talk therapy falls by the wayside. But other people have real issues to work through and those stay with us "in sickness and in health" until we work them through with talk therapy or otherwise. Your's sound like the latter. But maybe things will move more quickly. The can I love stuff though is probably going to be resolved experientially (although you may need a coach along side). When I first got involved with my husband, I went into therapy because I knew this was a good thing and I didn't want to screw it up--the urge to push him away was pretty overwhelming, but I was healthy enough to distrust the feeling.

> > >I met one guy in the photo supply store last month who has converted all his stuff from darkroom to computer and he did give me his number. I never got around to calling, but I think he will be at the meeting. Plus it's in the studio of a commercial photographer, a women who I've never met but have respected her work for years. She's highly published in Washington magazines. (When you're a photographer, you get in the habit of always looking for credits). She changed her last name to Z very early; her father is a well-known political figure and she didn't want to be identified with him in her work. So I 'm sort of excited to meet her.

Embracing the future instead of living in the wreckage of your future--sure sounds like your mood is in the right place.

> > > Well if you take the neurotin and adderal, will you be able to tell when the nardil kicks in? Because that is probably an easier option for you, to take that route, rather than the purity route. Actually it is the way my doctor wanted to handle things in the hospital and I resisted, then gave in after one day. I wanted to try selegiline for a while before I added the oxy, because I really did feel that the oxy made me feel so good, that I wouldn't be able to see if the selegiline was working. But my pain was too great, and we decided that I could always take away the oxy, in other words I guess it would be called the subtraction method, rather than the addition method.

I'm a believer in the subtraction method too. I'm so sorry I'm off the selegiline in a way. I loved what it did cognitively for me. Really felt like I was back to my old self in term of being able to think. I read some of my posts from back then, it shows.

> > > I've heard that there are a lot less interactions with nardil and other meds vs. parnate and other meds. Is adderal time release? If so, is it a capsule that can be split? Is it a capsule and a pill? JUST KIDDING. See we already have a history :-)

And, you're funny...Well I am taking my second dose of Nardil at 4 pm and if I have a dinner party at 5 pm because otherwise I crash. I don't understand you or elizabeth with this steady state stuff and "it doesn't matter when you take your dose"--it matters a great deal to me. I really feel the doses kick in and then I feel myself crash or come down off the dose--in the evening, it's like coming down off an amphetamine.

> > > Lorraine, I really don't know what to say. I can only say for me that it took a full five weeks of 45mg, and it changed my life. You haven't even done one week at 45mg.

I didn't know there was a "whining" license competancy requirement:-)

> > > I also have to say that nardil alone wasn't enough. I also used a benzo throughout my whole adult life, sometimes more, sometimes none. It allowed me more or less to lead a normal life. And if I could have tolerated a stimulent, I would have been on that also.

I'm being difficult with this, I know. The valium I could take at night (b/4 bed) and it actually might work throughout the day (I know it shouldn't with half lives and so on but I think it might have when I was taking it to sleep). But I also think I felt sexual impairment on it--which, by the way, I think Neurontin is also contributing to. When I was on Nardil alone, surprisingly, I had no impairment so I actually felt things normally for a week or so. I'm reluctant to try Klonopin (??) b/c I have heard it has some sexual impairment plus I have also heard that while it helps with anxiety it can actually worsen depression. I'm also very sensitive to cognitive impairment caused by these drugs.

Speaking of cognitive impairment, I have been in two accidents (very minor--backed into a parked car and solidly tapped the car ahead of me at a stop light). This plus losing some ability to concentrate. It's funny the accident where I hit the car at the stop light, it was actually as though I was "gone" for a moment. Then the other day, I had what I am convinced was a "smell" hallucination. In Beverly Hills on Rodeo, when I went to get into my parked car, I smelled marijuana very strongly. I looked around (it's not THAT uncommon in Beverly Hills after all) and saw no parked car with occupants, no car on the road that would explain the smell and no people in site. It was so odd that I actually stood there for about 3 minutes trying to figure out if there was a diner or restaurant that might be emitting exhaust that smelled like mj. Plus I am getting electric tingles on my arms or legs. Anyway, I think this may be temporal lobe seizure like stuff. I'm going to ask my pdoc. I'm wondering if Nardil might increase seizure like activity. I'm also wondering if I should add a different anticonvulsant.

> > > That’s why I mentioned subtraction above. That really may be easier. easier = better.

Yes. I just need to move on this stuff I think. I am getting some mood support now I believe.

> > >I have had the image of myself as fucked up, much more than depressed until two years ago. Lots of stuff to work on outside the depression which was managed by nardil.

I had this image of myself as super-competent b/4 my depression. It's all nonsense. It's like we collect our moods roll them into a ball and call it "self".

> > > When you find the right drug, then you will naturally put it into perspective.

I know this is true, but I also know that I may not find the right drug and that I still need to be able to live a life to my fullest capability.

> > > What is your next plan, if nardil doesn’t kick in. I know that one plan would be to go back to moclobernide with adjuncts, but is that next? I know you always have a next plan.

I'm going to give the Nardil some more time and work on the anxiety and anticonvulsant side of the equation for right now.

What was atarax like?

You mean you took effexor successfully once and when you retried it, it didn’t work?

Precisely. Ain't that a b****?

> > > I remember that you said that you had quit work to be home with your kids, because that was something you had missed. Had you thought you’d stay home until the kids were a certain age, or just left it open-ended?

I'm not sure what I'm doing with this. I don't think I can 9-5 anymore or assume my old 12 hour days. I don't think that I have the ability to withstand stress the way I used to. So I would need to do some sort of "home" work which I could transition into slowly.

Shelli, I'm hoping you are progressing on your meds and feeling better, less sleepy. Let me know and let me know about that trade group meeting.





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