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Re: hanging in there » shelliR

Posted by Lorraine on October 8, 2001, at 10:38:32

In reply to Re: hanging in there » Lorraine, posted by shelliR on October 3, 2001, at 20:53:28

Hi Shelli:

I responded to your email as I was zipping out of town and of course my computer crashed as I hit the submit button. So sorry about the delay in responding.

How is the oxy/wellbutrin/nardil going now?

> No, it comes back to idea that the half-life is long enough that it shouldn't matter. Except for very sensitive and/or stange people. < g >

Hey! You talking to me?

> > > I have the suspicion that oxy and other opiates are being used with fms patients, who frequently (always) have depression as well as tender points and that this is how its use is spreading.
> that may be true. Have you read about opiates used for fms patients?

No, it's just a hunch and it may be wrong.

> > >I am so so sad, under the depression. I am not ready to be my age. I want those years back. Things that I was working on two years ago when everything (with the exception of survival and work came to a halt.) But there were lots of years lost before that because of my self-image, because of my dissociation, etc.

I mourn my lost years too.

> > > Good move. Was your inclination to push *him* away , or *anyone* away who was interested in a long-term relationship.

Probably anyone--certainly anyone that I had a real potential for relating to on an adult level. I had been in one other long term relationship with someone before this one but it was not nearly as threatening although I was committed.

> > >My therapist would call it poor affect management.

Ouch! That sounds like the ob/gyn who told me not to complain if I needed a C section because it wasn't as if I had a "virgin belly" (meaning I'd had abdominal surgery before). It so treats humans like automobiles or something.

> > >Her constant need to classify everything in psychobabble (if you'll excuse that term on this board!) makes me feel that she needs to push her status up (really all therapists) and mine(patients) down.

Sure sounds like it.

[re switching therapists] I wouldn't right now Shelli. Wait until you are feeling strong. It takes a lot of effort to find a new therapist (it's not like you look in the yellow pages) and develop a relationship that works.

> > >Have you taken the Myer Briggs? I am a INTJ.

So am I and so is my husband.

> > >I'm guessing that my therapist is a ETNJ or a ENTJ.

My abusive exboss was ESTP. If you like Myers Briggs, have you read "Please Understand Me: Character and Temperament Types" by Keirsey and Bates? It's a great book.

> > >All my past therapists have been feeling types and I have gotten very frustrated much of the time. This therapist has taught me a lot about staying on track

So her no nonsense approach is actually appreciated by you usually...?


> > > It may be possible to add a very low dose of seligeline, while it's still a reversible MAOI. Have you done any research on this?

Maybe. Selegeline makes me very anxious physically. Nardil does too, but if I have a feeling this side effect may work it's way out.

> > > > > Lorraine, I really don't know what to say. I can only say for me that it took a full five weeks of 45mg, and it changed my life. You haven't even done one week at 45mg.
> > I didn't know there was a "whining" license competancy requirement:-)
> :-). Hey, my statement was intended to give you support and encouragement. :-)

And, it did, Shelli.

> > > To say that you've been on too low a dose to feel discouraged yet.

I've increased my dose as of yesterday to 45mg day. 22.5 in the am and pm.

> > >(Oh, yes, I am also the president of the discouragement committee. I get to assess at what points you are allowed to feel discouragement < g > Very powerful roles, I have).

And deserve.

> > > > > I also have to say that nardil alone wasn't enough. I also used a benzo throughout my whole adult life, sometimes more, sometimes none. It allowed me more or less to lead a normal life. And if I could have tolerated a stimulent, I would have been on that also.

Well, I have a script for Klonipin, but I am reluctant to start it. I will see how this anxiety thing plays out. The more drugs I take, the more likely I am to have side effects.

> > > Well, now you are on a higher dose, so that's going to be hard to separate that out based on one week several weeks ago. It sounds like you are experiencing ony partial impairment. If that is true, then a little serzone or a bit of wellbutrin might help.

You are right. It is hard to know if it is the increased Nardil or Neurontin that is causing the side effects.

> > > You might want to do some searches to se if klonopin or neurotin actually affects sexaul impairment. I've known a lot of people on both, and haven't heard much said about that. Nothing like the SSRIs, etc.

I'll do this. I should know what people are saying about it. I don't put much stock in the drug company research--they don't ask the right questions so they never have to disclose some things like sexual impairment.

> BTW, I think you are testing this impairment possiblity a bit more than is truely neccesary for a fair trial. < g >.

It's the married thing--full of trials and tribulations. Some single people, by the way, are pretty self-sufficient.

> I'm reluctant to try Klonopin (??) b/c I have heard it has some sexual impairment plus I have also heard that while it helps with anxiety it can actually worsen depression. I'm also very sensitive to cognitive impairment caused by these drugs.
> > > Well, I got my masters on nardil, and I don't remember having any cognitive difficulties.

I suppose this could be read two ways--you got your masters while taking nardil and you got your masters "in" taking nardil. Probably both true.

> > > But then you feel that everything else is not going right. Maybe you can deal with the sideeffects after.

I'm just going to tough out the side effects for now and give Nardil a full chance.

> > > Well, maybe you were super-competent before the depression? Do you look back and see great sex and clear mind, because those are the things that come up over and over for you , when wondering about what is being affected by the AD or mood stabilizer, other than the depression.

The sex is a gift to the marriage. The truth is that when I lose interest or desire because of my meds, it doesn't bother--but it wreaks havoc on the marriage in lots of ways. Sex is more than sex. In my marriage, it is one of the ways my husband feels loved--me too actually.

> > >Taking a 1/2 nap seemed a small price to pay, and when it didn't work anymore, in hindsight, an even smaller price to pay.

A 1/2 hour nap is a small price to pay. I have been crashing for about 3 hours--I just increased my afternoon dose and I'll see if that makes a difference.

> > > > > What is your next plan, if nardil doesn’t kick in. I know that one plan would be to go back to moclobernide with adjuncts, but is that next? I know you always have a next plan.
> > I'm going to give the Nardil some more time and work on the anxiety and anticonvulsant side of the equation for right now.

Next plan is to add some Klonopin; then Adderal if that makes me too drugged out; then I think Marplan; then I think maybe an SSRI and amphetamine. My pdoc wants me to do another QEEG and he may be right.

> > What was atarax like?
> I take atarax to sleep and it also works the next day for me as an antihistamine.

But it works to put you to sleep. I think I speed up on antihistamines.

> > > If you can get away with it financially (and it appears that you can), I can't see working twelve hours a day, except for myself. And if I had kids, I probably couldn't see it at all.

Yeah, it's hard to separate out the mourning that I do because I can't do things I used to do whether I actually want to do those things anyway.

> > >The big thing for me is going to be a huge change in marketing, selling myself and my decision to go digital, without seeming defensive.

I think you just say that you are making the switch because of the artistic flexibility that digital affords you. You might show a side by side of hand painted vs digital to quiet their fears.

> > >But it is harder to explain on the phone (not doing hand-prints anymore?)

Put a side by side on the website? It might help although not everyone does the web.

I rejoined my writing class. I think I shocked them a bit. The theme of my first poem was suicide. The second about being seduced by depressionl. Guy who runs it makes a big point about presentation. I wanted to sort of sink into the chair, but he made me move and talk about my kids and then read--which pretty much had me reduced to tears. Reading is such a vulnerable act, you know.





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