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Re: hanging in there Lorraine

Posted by shelliR on September 24, 2001, at 22:58:07

In reply to Re: hanging in there shelliR, posted by Lorraine on September 24, 2001, at 10:36:33

> Hi Shelli:
> >
> > > Shelli, i have a million folders.
> > Are they all organized in alphabetical order or by color? Just curious!
> No, it's just a ton of folders unorganized sitting here and there throughout the house. Lots of stacks of papers waiting for folders. My husband is the one with the suits arranged by day of the week to be worn. I'm the one hunting through a closet filled with clothes to find that one thing that I just bought yesterday--it should be in here somewhere...

we're very alike there. It drives me crazy how much time I lose looking for things. The men in my life have been like your husband, totally organized and neat. I always think that men are either that way, or total slobs. When I'm in a relationship I try a lot harder. Aside from my living room, I live in chaos. I don't notice it, then I step back and am in shock. Things fall off my desk on to the floor and I just walk over them; I never think to pick them up. My therapist and I try to work on things as basic as organization, both in how I live and in how I work. Mostly because it wastes so much of my time and and adds to my inner chaos. Like now I am sitting at the computer, every inch of the table is filled, and my stacks have fallen into unorganized clutter. I am totally focused on the computer so it doesn't bother me, but when I really look I am appalled. I go into states of trying very very hard to keep things in order, because I really love it when they are. But I never stick to it.
> > > For how long did you retry it? No results or partial response?
> > I went off it for only a short time around this time last year (did a fairly long trial of serzone) and totally crashed and wanted to go back on nardil. But I must not have gotten more than a very partial response, because we keep trying adjunct after adjunct.
> Your pdoc might be able to make your partial response work. I read his article. It sounds so simple and full of hope. Do they really believe what they write or is it just the need to have a strong thesis without words like "I believe" thrown in to muddy it up.

That's really funny. I think he probably believes what he writes and when things don't work out with someone, it probably breezes right out of his consciousness, so he can keep his theories in tact. Like I think he really didn't anticipate that I would get habituated to the oxy, and he's not sure how to play it yet. Sometimes he's reassuring; other times he sounds like he's quite annoyed that my body didn't do it's job to conform to his plan.

Also, did you notice how he dismissed MAIOs and tricyclics because of their side effects. As as there aren't a milllion side effects from the other ADs.

> > > >The thing is that this time I am willing to go higher on nardil this time as long as my pdoc will give me something to knock me out at night. He says he will.
> The Ambien is working well for me now.

I know I've tried Ambien but I don't remember what happened--it was a long time ago. I would be willing to retry it. I think I'm going to ask my pdoc of ten years to give me a copy of all my files. When I asked her last time, she had her nurse practioner go through all my records and write what meds I had tried, when, how much, and why I went off. I can't find those sheets (surprise, surprise), but I think she missed things anyway, (I mean it was ten years). I'd like to see the whole thing and I want a copy, even if I have to pay. I don't think she can refuse in Maryland unless seeing them would create a danger to myself.
> > > >And it will be in combination with wellbutrin which will help with the tiredness, if the depression lifts. And the oxy might stay if the AD stops me from having to keep going up.
> Your oxy seems pretty ambitious about assuming a larger part of your life.

My oxy is ambitious? :-) You've lost me, totally. Please explain.

> > > > Have you tried the other MAOs? You had a positive response to one. My pdoc says until you have tried all of the MAOs you haven't tried MAOs--meaning that they are all different.
> > Well. remember I tried parnate just after you. So there's really just one non-reversible MAOI that I haven't tried.
> Which one are you thinking of? Marplan? I hadn't compiled a serious list. Somehow I thought there was more on the list than just one or two more.

I think that's all in the US.
> > > > I did find that Neurontin was mood supportive at a certain dose (900 mg), but that hasn't really held.
> >
> > Yes, I didn't know that until I read your post to Eliz. Are you continuing on the neurontin as you build up the nardil?
> The Nardil is activating and sedating?? I find myself reluctant to take the neurontin during the day because of the effect on my energy level, but I am going to do it today. I could add Adderal (very slowly and very carefully) to counteract the energy thing.

I don't know if that's a good idea to add the adderal yet; it's probably best if you can to see what the nardil exactly does if you can. Why do you want to add the neurontin now? I guess maybe the waiting period is feeling too hard right now?

> > > >From time to time something good will happen that temporarily cheers the paient up to the point where she actually experiences pleasure."
> > > Shelli--that happens with me and it confuses me b/c i think i'm coming out of my depression, but i am not.
> >
> > because when you experience pleasure, sometimes it is pure pleasure, not at all hazy?
> It's not hazy; it feels like I'm coming home, but it usually doesn't last a whole day.
> > > > I don't understand that. Because you can experience pleasure sometimes, that is a roller coaster? I think of a roller coaster as Bipolar II, which I realize you think you may have, but I don't get the imagine of a roller coaster when you describe your days.
> > Unless it is not a very steep roller coaster?
> It's pretty steep (hope and despair).
I guess I was thinking of the roller coaster in terms in terms of very depressed, very happy. Hope and despair are a little more in the head, sort of an evaluative thing. Like I can feel very depressed but hopeful, if I am trying a new AD that I think will work.
> > > >Well maybe you are having good days and bad days in your depression and when the AD really works you will feel different from both your good days and bad days. Certainly you will not always be questioning.
> Right. When an AD works I won't have those down times. My mood chart shows that I have them more often than not. Maybe a 5 to 1 ratio.

I didn't really understand how bad your ratio was. But then my bads are worse than your bads, and my ratio is better, so the overall result could be close. (I just realized how competitive that sounded. :-) Really, I am just trying to understand. (I always want to understand. It can drive me and others crazy at times.)
> > >
> > When the AD worked for me the first time (in my twenties) it was an "oh my god, this is what life can feel like" But I did have lots of downs throughout those years, just no long horrible downs.
> Yeah. We don't become immune to life's ups and downs we just have a floor to fall on.

Well, aside from the ups and downs, I had a lot more self-defeating thoughts and actions, also.
> > > >So I would probably become a drug addict and have a good time, before I decided to kill myself. I'm serious. And then I guess I would try ECT.
> Shelli, have you seriously tried drugs?
No, only the vicodin and now the oxy.

The life of an addict is not attractive or pleasant. Reality peeks in.

Okay, the plan is : get high, go to France, have fun and spend all my money; when I become poor and an addict, *then* kill myself. But why not use money and drugs in excess first.

However. It's only a plan if I decide to kill myself, and that, as we have discussed, is not an option. So it's more like a perverse fantasy.
Or black humor.

> > > > I really have the feeling that nardil may be right for you. Remember it took 5 weeks for me at 45mg. I know you react quicker, but still, you have just gone up to 30mg. I know it is hard to hold hope, but I think given the lack of side effects, you do have reason to be optimistic.
> Well, it's your experience that keeps me hanging with it because I do not feel any antidepressant effect.

Well my opinion is (for you to take or leave, of course) is that you should go pretty quickly up to 45 mg. Then if the AD hits, you can then go down. That's what I did. My whole trial was at 45 mg, then I went down to 30mg. If I was to do it again, I'd go quickly to 60mg, then go down later. I am only going slowly up now because of the wellbutrin. Doing trials too slowly raises too much time; your side effects don't sound too bad from the nardil, why not go for it?

> > > > I even think that maybe you could have worked with parnate, if you had been willling to add benzos, if I am recalling right.
> Sure if I could have dealt with the irritation. People in my life draw the line somewhere though:-)
> (I might not be; I have a hard time remembering my own reactions, let alone yours) :-)
> And I have a hard time remembering mine so you are unlikely to offend just confuse me.

You are right, I forgot about the irritation. But you don't seem to be having any bad effects on the nardil, or did I miss something big, again?




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