![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 3 to 27 of 27. Go back in thread:
Posted by antigua3 on June 27, 2009, at 11:40:16
In reply to Re: Victim/Survivor terminology**possible sa trigg » antigua3, posted by Dinah on June 27, 2009, at 10:07:54
You seem to think that he was wrong to use that word. Am I right?
I'm not bothered that he chose to use that word because I completely understood his intent and it led to a very satisfying discussion.
Also, just to be clear, he didn't use the word survivor; that's coming just from me.
You're right. I do think of myself as innocent before the abuse. It's like I'm a before and after person and while I do cry over the lost innocence, I cannot use that word to describe myself after the abuse even though I rationally know I'm not responsible.
thanks,
antigua
Posted by Phillipa on June 27, 2009, at 12:29:41
In reply to Re: Victim/Survivor terminology**possible sa trigg » Dinah, posted by antigua3 on June 27, 2009, at 11:40:16
Totally different meaning but I've always been called a survivor as endured a few divorces and kept my head above water. Carried on life as always. Didn't let them get me down. But it caught up with me later in life. Survivor means strong to me. Phillipa
Posted by antigua3 on June 27, 2009, at 12:53:14
In reply to Re: Victim/Survivor terminology**possible sa trigg » antigua3, posted by Phillipa on June 27, 2009, at 12:29:41
That's good. I'm glad it means something positive to you.
antigua
Posted by wittgensteinz on June 27, 2009, at 14:45:37
In reply to Victim/Survivor terminology**possible sa trigger, posted by antigua3 on June 27, 2009, at 10:00:33
Antigua,
I think those words bother you because they carry so much meaning. To be a victim is to have undergone something - you have to be, to some extent, at ease with the fact that the abuse happened, that it happened to you and that going through it is something 'big' and 'changing' (damaging and permanent). If someone is in denial about the abuse (either that it even happened or to the extent it affected them), then I think hearing the word 'victim' is going to be very confronting. It's putting you into a place over which you have conflicted feelings. Perhaps it makes you feel guilty that someone calls you this - e.g. "was it so bad that I am a 'victim'?"
You can't see yourself as innocent of responsibility - so you also can't accept yourself as a victim or as a survivor. But perhaps your pdoc wants you to see that he, as a witness to what you went through, regards you as an innocent survivor - if he can see that, then maybe it will help you realise and accept that too in time.
I don't imagine the problem you describe of measuring how bad your abuse was is unusual. For you, growing up, it would have been a normalised situation. Abuse was a normal part of the fabric of your young life. How can you contextualise something that was passed as normal - something you had no choice about - maybe the lack of an internal barometer is in itself a survival mechanism you developed to get through it.
Did you share your reaction with your pdoc? The fact you have a reaction to those words is important. It means you're feeling something - it's not the case that those words mean nothing at all to you, that you close yourself off completely from them.
Witti
Posted by Dinah on June 27, 2009, at 14:48:15
In reply to Re: Victim/Survivor terminology**possible sa trigg » Dinah, posted by antigua3 on June 27, 2009, at 11:40:16
No. I wasn't blaming him at all. The terminology is too widespread to blame anyone for using it.
I was just saying that I understood your discomfort with it.
And perhaps, that once he understood your discomfort with it, and unless he had a particular reason he thought it was important for you to use it, that he might choose to use another word instead. Not only to be respectful, but also to help you hear his message without being distracted by the words.
Posted by antigua3 on June 27, 2009, at 18:53:56
In reply to Re: Victim/Survivor terminology**possible sa trigg » antigua3, posted by wittgensteinz on June 27, 2009, at 14:45:37
thank you, and it's nice to see to you around again.
I don't see myself as innocent of responsibility. I believe it logically, but I don't feel it. How do you do that?
I thought it interesting that you said, "Perhaps it makes you feel guilty that someone calls you this - e.g. "was it so bad that I'm a victim?" That's exactly how I feel.
This hurts a lot, not being able to get my head around this. I guess I'm not at ease w/the fact that it happened and that it was damaging and permanent.
I don't want it to be damaging and permanet! That hurts so very much. It's very raw.
I thought I was learning to accept it, but at some level I'm still denying it. Partly because it feels like believing it destorys my core self and I feel like I have no legs to stand on if I have to accept it. I know logically that's not true--I've grown up, but have I really? Is it safer to want to feel the innocence of being the young girl before the abuse, or is to better to accept it the horribleness, incorporate what this means to me at my core self into my present day life and move on? That's the goal, but it's just too sad and painful to give it up, or maybe it's too sad to accept it.
thanks,
antigua
Posted by antigua3 on June 27, 2009, at 19:00:29
In reply to Re: Victim/Survivor terminology**possible sa trigg » antigua3, posted by Dinah on June 27, 2009, at 14:48:15
He used the word deliberately to make me see that it wasn't my fault. He's tried to make me see this from every angle, but I guess the message isn't filtering all the way through. Using this word did affect me profoundly and it has opened things up for me to try and see my situation differently.
If the word bothers me so much, I need to explore it.
thanks,
antigua
Posted by antigua3 on June 27, 2009, at 19:01:24
In reply to Re: Victim/Survivor terminology**possible sa trigg, posted by antigua3 on June 27, 2009, at 19:00:29
Posted by antigua3 on June 27, 2009, at 19:49:56
In reply to above for witti and dinah (nm), posted by antigua3 on June 27, 2009, at 19:01:24
Feeling this way reminds me of why I went into therapy in the first place, 19 years ago. Yep, 19 years.
I lost a baby after an amnio, and at about the time the baby was to be born, I found myself so lost and depressed so I sought out help for the first time.
The baby died from an infection contracted from a contaminated needle. At the time, this happened in less than 1% of 1% of all amnios conducted. The baby was perfect. I'm not sure at what stage they do them now, but I was about 16 weeks along. I could feel the baby moving already.
I was devastated. Furthermore, I felt like it was my fault, that I had done something to make it happen. I didn't blame the doctor, and that's the first time transference issues about my father emerged. Was it the doctor's fault? Did he contaminate the needle? Or did the needle come out of the package contaminated? It doesn't matter. The fact is that it just happened, like bad things happen to people all the time in life and they have to learn to accept it or stay stuck.
It took me YEARS to get over believing this was my fault. I'm serious. In retrospect, it sounds ridiculous that I thought it was my fault, but I truly felt that way for years. I know now it wasn't my fault and I have no shame over it anymore. It even took me six years to get up the courage to call and find out what the sex of the baby was. That just gives you an idea of how slow this process of forgiving was for me.
I can't wait that long anymore. I really thought I was headed toward the end of therapy, at least with my pdoc, but how am I going to break through this?
Maybe they aren't similar issues at all, but it's time for me to quit whining about all this and accept what happened and get over it. It's so very frustrating to want this to happen, but to be unable to make it happen. Much like wanting memories to come forth, but unable to make them. (I have learned to be careful what you wish for when it comes to this, though. What agony.)
Everything comes at its own pace, my T says, and I can't push it.
I sound so pathetic.
antigua
Posted by rskontos on June 27, 2009, at 21:10:16
In reply to This is ridiculous, posted by antigua3 on June 27, 2009, at 19:49:56
Antigua,
No you don't sound pathetic at all. Just hurting.
When I read your posts and the thoughtful response, I related.
To me, to admit that I am any of these words is to admit "something" happened. and I would just rather it didn't. That somehow I am ok regardless of what was done to me. It is a hard concept to wrap your head around. Especially while trying to make some sense of it and heal. But it is hard to make sense of something that should have never happened. I think maybe like me you would rather be in the category as it never happened.
Until we all make peace or sense of it all it will hurt so I understand completely how you feel.
take care
rsk
Posted by TherapyGirl on June 27, 2009, at 21:12:00
In reply to This is ridiculous, posted by antigua3 on June 27, 2009, at 19:49:56
You don't sound pathetic, Antigua. You are struggling with major things and you sound like you are in pain. I'm sorry about that. You don't deserve it.
I'm wishing you peace.
(((((((((Antigua))))))))
Posted by Daisym on June 27, 2009, at 23:12:47
In reply to Re: This is ridiculous » antigua3, posted by TherapyGirl on June 27, 2009, at 21:12:00
On the one hand, words are just agreed upon definitions and we use them to describe things in ways that we all understand - a victim of anything is the person the thing happened to. A survivor, of anything, is the person who lived through whatever the thing was. And I'm guessing you understand that part.
I have the same three thoughts always when these words are used: 1) victim implies passivity and I'm pretty sure I wasn't passive; 2) Survivor is a label for csa that "nices" it up and supposedly reminds us of our power, but only serves to remind me of the csa 3) Survivor lumps "us" all together, like our experiences and reactions are the same and like we should all have Survivor Pride or something.
I'm pretty sure that no one likes to be labeled. I want to be a child this happened to, not be the happening itself. Does that make sense? It is part of my experience, not the whole of me. (the truth is I just want to be able to think of myself as a child, period.)
Mostly, I want to encourage you to put the emphasis on the right word. WERE - not ARE. You were a victim, you were abused. But you are past that and while the healing process hurts almost as much, the worst is over. What you fear most has already happened.
Remember to breathe.
Hugs,
Daisy
Posted by Dinah on June 28, 2009, at 3:23:05
In reply to Re: Victim/Survivor terminology**possible sa trigg, posted by antigua3 on June 27, 2009, at 19:00:29
I *am* sorry, antigua.
See, for me, it would have been a completely different experience, and I responded from that. I genuinely would prefer that my therapist not use words like that. But you are not me, and if the use of his word meant that to you, then you should definitely explore it.
I think I am funny about words, and they often seem to mean something a bit different to me than they do to others. I ought to remember that before I open my mouth.
Posted by antigua3 on June 28, 2009, at 8:26:49
In reply to Re: This is ridiculous » antigua3, posted by rskontos on June 27, 2009, at 21:10:16
You make a lot of sense. Yes, I'd like to think I'm OK regardless of what happened. But I'm pretending I'm OK, as if I can just skip this part.
I can't really describe how it feels, which is funny, because words are my thing. I don't think I could even draw it, because I can't draw! but maybe a diagram or something might help.
I still long to be in that category as if it never happened. At least I'm not alone. :(
thanks,
antigua
Posted by antigua3 on June 28, 2009, at 8:27:38
In reply to Re: This is ridiculous » antigua3, posted by TherapyGirl on June 27, 2009, at 21:12:00
Thanks for your support as always TherapyGirl. I know you're going through a lot on your own, so I appreciate you taking the time to respond.
antigua
Posted by antigua3 on June 28, 2009, at 8:49:04
In reply to Re: This is ridiculous » TherapyGirl, posted by Daisym on June 27, 2009, at 23:12:47
I guess it helps a bit when you simply define the words and they aren't felt as if they were loaded with such emotional meaning. I'm fine with the standard definitions, and I wish I could stick with them, but you've helped me here to see them "emotionless" if that's actually a word. Hmm, you might be onto something here--they are simply words.
Victim does imply passivity, and except for a little girl who naturally wants her father's attention (and all that Oedipal stuff), and then when she gets that attention and it proceeds beyond attention into sex, there are some feelings that make me think that I wasn't passive, because I wanted the attention. But, Daisy, in no way, did you or I ever "want" what happened to happen, and if other things happened that made us feel like we weren't passive participants, the truth is that you/I were coerced, and that still makes us NOT responsible. You need to see this. You feel guilt and shame where you shouldn't. You're placing too much of a burden on yourself, just as I do. (That's my rant for the day. Maybe if I can convince you, because I can see it clearly for you, than I can convince myself.)
"I want to be the child this happened to, not be the happening itself."
This makes a lot of sense to me."(the truth is I just want to be able to think of myself as a child, period.)
this is exactly my problem (not saying it's a problem for you). I want to the be the innocent child, but I can never be that person again, and since I've lost that child now (she's hopefully just in hiding as so many of you have suggested), I am being forced to grow up. But I guess I don't know what the grownup is supposed to look like, or what she's supposed to feel. I don't want to grow up!Finally, don't worry. I know I was a victim; I'm not one now. You say the worst is over. This is what my pdoc says, but in some ways it's not. Flashbacks are just as real as if it's happening now and I can't be sure they are over at all. I fear the worst is yet to come.
I'm breathing.
Thanks for all your help,
antigua
Posted by antigua3 on June 28, 2009, at 8:50:20
In reply to Re: Victim/Survivor terminology**possible sa trigg » antigua3, posted by Dinah on June 28, 2009, at 3:23:05
You have no reason at all to be sorry, Dinah. Your posts are full of wisdom, which I am forever grateful for.
Thanks,
antigua
Posted by wittgensteinz on June 28, 2009, at 9:10:21
In reply to This is ridiculous, posted by antigua3 on June 27, 2009, at 19:49:56
To reiterate what others have said - no you don't sound pathetic.
I'm very sorry for what happened to your baby and I think the link you draw between the contaminated needle and the doctor and with your father and you (and the feeling of being contaminated - losing your innocence because of the abuse) is important.
Try not to focus on the number of years you've been working on this. It makes it sound like the 19 years were a static time when really you know you have made a lot of progress. It's a journey and it will take as long as it takes - it's ok to take as long as you need. It's not pathetic.
Feelings I've felt about the trauma I experienced growing up include the inability to measure it - was it or was it not abuse? Am I imagining it? If I tell then they'll know somehow and then what? - guilt for being disloyal to my parents - feeling that I have been manipulative if someone else describes it as 'abuse' or validates me in some way (I must have tricked them into thinking that) - this also brings on tremendous feelings of guilt and of grief. Feelings of: did I deserve it - did I cause it?
What I mean to say is that it's very complex and each feeling needs to be unraveled and worked through again and again.
Something that comes to mind every now and again is the thought: am I justified in having the problems I have because of what happened in the past? I swing from feelings of self-hatred to a deep self-pity and an anger that no-one is protecting or 'saving' me. Sometimes I feel so unsafe in the world - I just wish I could be wrapped up and held tightly.
For me, some days I feel like nothing happened, and if anyone would suggest otherwise it would cause me guilt and embarrassment, whereas other days I wish the whole world would know - in those moments I long for validation and feel full of trapped rage and resentment.
So, I don't think what you're going through is ridiculous. You asked how you can go from logically knowing what happened when you were a girl was not your fault to emotionally acknowledging it. I don't know the answer I'm afraid but perhaps through a process of re-parenting with your therapist and pdoc you will gradual change. My therapist has talked about providing a positive re-parenting experience. If you can form the necessary attachment to your pdoc and he can convey to you that you were not responsible then perhaps in time you will open up emotionally to this idea yourself.
Witti
Posted by fleeting flutterby on June 28, 2009, at 10:33:01
In reply to Re: Victim/Survivor terminology**possible sa trigg, posted by antigua3 on June 27, 2009, at 18:53:56
> I don't see myself as innocent of responsibility. I believe it logically, but I don't feel it. How do you do that?<<
---flutterby: Yes, this is exactly where I am at too. not sure how to "feel" it.
> This hurts a lot, not being able to get my head around this. I guess I'm not at ease w/the fact that it happened and that it was damaging and permanent.
>
> I don't want it to be damaging and permanet! That hurts so very much. It's very raw.<<---flutterby: I'm sorry it hurts you so much. You know what though, every experience that holds some meaning(negative or positive) is permanent. Like seeing a movie that really touches you-- it becomes a permanent part of you, or reading a book that speaks what you've been trying to say-- that also is permanent. I think any life experience that gives meaning- evil or good-- is permanent within us. The thing that matters is how we decide to live with it, finding our way to inner peace and loving ourselves for all our flaws and graces.
>
> I thought I was learning to accept it, but at some level I'm still denying it. Partly because it feels like believing it destorys my core self and I feel like I have no legs to stand on if I have to accept it. I know logically that's not true--I've grown up, but have I really? Is it safer to want to feel the innocence of being the young girl before the abuse, or is to better to accept it the horribleness, incorporate what this means to me at my core self into my present day life and move on? That's the goal, but it's just too sad and painful to give it up, or maybe it's too sad to accept it.<<---flutterby: not sure I understand some things-- "too sad and painful to give it up"--- do you mean give up that little innocent girl? if so-- you don't have to give that up-- that is a part of you and always will be. don't you think there is a part of you that is sweet and innocent? I believe there is.
"too sad to accept it"-- do you mean the abuse and how it made you see yourself? maybe, now this is my case and just thought I'd share it in case you can relate--- maybe the abuse was so far off balance(the norm of healthy people) that one figures it had to have been me(the child), at least in part, being the bad one, as an adult just woudln't do such a thing without me(the ignorant child) somehow at the steering wheel.like was said in some other posts-- I think one of the keys to inner peace is to parent oneself -- be the loving parent that that little girl needed. This is what I'm working on with the T. i see..... it's hard though...... very hard.
wishing you peace
flutterby-mandy
Posted by seldomseen on June 28, 2009, at 10:37:53
In reply to Victim/Survivor terminology**possible sa trigger, posted by antigua3 on June 27, 2009, at 10:00:33
For what it's worth, the word "victim" makes me cringe too. It's a very evocative word that conjures up all sorts of feelings of powerlessness and of allowing things to happen to me without my consent - things that that I *swore* I would *never* permit in my life ever ever again, even if I had to disengage completely from the world. For me, the word hits right at the core pain of abuse.
Then, here comes some mental health professional proclaiming that I was a victim and vulnerable - another cringeworthy word in my opinion.
Why is it so hard to reconcile that we were, in fact, vulnerable? Sigh.
Why it is also so hard to accept that as adults we can be vulnerable again without something horrible happening? And that, despite what we *know* abou it, that vulnerability does not equal weakness and loss of control.
It's a process that's for sure. But I've learned that when confronted with something over which we have absolutely no control, in an attempt to make sense of it, humans will *assume* control of it. That we made it happen, or allowed it to happen, or somehow actively promoted it. For instance, a friend of mine's barn was struck by lightening recently. He actually remarked that "if only I had put the barn somewhere else". Evidentally it is very hard for humans to accept that sometimes things happen around us and to us that we simply can not control and that on occasion, we are powerless. Yuck.
This explanation really appealed to my cognitive, rational side, and eventually spilled over into my emotional knowing. However, it's still sitting there waiting for full acknowledgement I suspect.
While you negotiate this, please take good care of yourself.
Peace to you,
Seldom.
Posted by antigua3 on June 28, 2009, at 11:48:59
In reply to Re: Victim/Survivor terminology**possible sa trigg » antigua3, posted by fleeting flutterby on June 28, 2009, at 10:33:01
> > > ---flutterby: I'm sorry it hurts you so much. You know what though, every experience that holds some meaning(negative or positive) is permanent...I think any life experience that gives meaning- evil or good-- is permanent within us. The thing that matters is how we decide to live with it, finding our way to inner peace and loving ourselves for all our flaws and graces.
>
> Yes, it's like the memories and flashbacks. They have to be moved from short-term memory to long-term memory so that I can heal. I'm learning to do this with memories, but you've made me think this is what I have to do about these feelings--quit thinking/believing that they define me now and accept them as things that just happened.
> >
> >
> ---flutterby: not sure I understand some things-- "too sad and painful to give it up"--- do you mean give up that little innocent girl?>Yes, giving up the innocent girl is very painful. But I guess these feelings have to be integrated rather than given up, but right now they seem so separate from the person I am today. I feel like they do define me, when in fact that's probably not true.
---flutterby: don't you think there is a part of you that is sweet and innocent?>No, not anymore. She feels lost to me now.
--flutterby: "too sad to accept it"-- do you mean the abuse and how it made you see yourself?
>No, it's too sad to accept that she is gone, because the innocence was really gone after the abuse.
--flutterby: maybe the abuse was so far off balance(the norm of healthy people) that one figures it had to have been me(the child), at least in part, being the bad one, as an adult just woudln't do such a thing without me(the ignorant child) somehow at the steering wheel.
>
>you're right. I think I'm able to forgive everything that happened except what happened with my father. In all the other cases, it was in no way my fault, and unfortunately there were too many "other" cases for a young child to handle. But with my father, I wanted his attention, although I never wanted it to lead to where it led to, and it is hard to not feel some type of responsibility. I'm working on it, though.---flutterby: - I think one of the keys to inner peace is to parent oneself -- be the loving parent that that little girl needed. This is what I'm working on with the T. i see..... it's hard though...... very hard.
>
>I'm glad you're making progress. You should be very proud of yourself. But as a mother myself, I see it as my job to help the little girl accept this and move on. That is if I could have access to her again, which seems doubtful right now.Thanks so much. You've given me much to think about.
antigua
Posted by antigua3 on June 28, 2009, at 12:03:20
In reply to Re: This is ridiculous » antigua3, posted by wittgensteinz on June 28, 2009, at 9:10:21
>> To reiterate what others have said - no you don't sound pathetic.
>>Thanks witti, but I do feel pathetic.>> I'm very sorry for what happened to your baby and I think the link you draw between the contaminated needle and the doctor and with your father and you (and the feeling of being contaminated - losing your innocence because of the abuse) is important.
>
>I think this is important, too, because it's what made things start to bleed out. My father died a few years after this happened and it wasn't until then that I started to remember things. (I always knew a few things, but they weren't really conscious yet.) Before he died I started to suspect, but as long as he was alive, I couldn't go there. Also, what complicates things is that I had a wonderful relationship with my father in the years before he died and I felt like I had been restored to my special place in his life and I knew how much he loved me.> Try not to focus on the number of years you've been working on this.
>>I know, I know, you're right! I've made more progress in the last 18 months or so, partially because of my pdoc and the repercussions of therapy with him, then I had in many years before.
> Feelings I've felt about the trauma I experienced growing up include the inability to measure it - was it or was it not abuse? Am I imagining it? If I tell then they'll know somehow and then what? - guilt for being disloyal to my parents - feeling that I have been manipulative if someone else describes it as 'abuse' or validates me in some way (I must have tricked them into thinking that) - this also brings on tremendous feelings of guilt and of grief. Feelings of: did I deserve it - did I cause it?
>
>>The feelings of guilt resonate with me. I actually told my pdoc this past week that I was afraid if there was an afterlife, my father was going to be very, very angry at me. "So, you're doomed to eternal damnation," he said, and he was right, that's how I feel, although I know how ridiculous that is. He's right that I shouldn't feel this way. (All these "shoulds" are huge warning signs of my faulty thinking!)>I long for validation and feel full of trapped rage and resentment.
>>I am getting that validation from both my T and pdoc so why do I still feel this way? I still can't let the anger out, really, as if it isn't really necessary because except for one incident, they're all dead.
> You asked how you can go from logically knowing what happened when you were a girl was not your fault to emotionally acknowledging it. I don't know the answer... If you can form the necessary attachment to your pdoc and he can convey to you that you were not responsible then perhaps in time you will open up emotionally to this idea yourself.
>
>>I have formed this attachment with him now and it is very scary. He has conveyed to me that i'm not responsible many times, and I've made great progress with him, but I feel stuck in this horrible place right now.Thanks, and sorry to be so long
antigua
>
Posted by antigua3 on June 28, 2009, at 12:08:52
In reply to Re: Victim/Survivor terminology**possible sa trigger, posted by seldomseen on June 28, 2009, at 10:37:53
I hadn't thought about the vulnerability part. That's interesting and I'll have to consider the role it plays.
You're right. As humans, we try to make sense of what happened to us, and we do assume control if it's the only way we can make sense of them. My T says that part of these feelings may be pre-verbal feelings and that it is understandable that I have a hard time putting words to something that I had no words at the time to describe. There's just such an ache and a longing to all of this.
I've found myself in situations that I also swore that I would never permit to happen again. For me, it was transference over and over again, but this time, with my pdoc, we are committed to "resolving" it in a healthy manner, and I trust him that we will get there. It's just so painful.
Thanks so much. If my emotional side would just accept the cognitive, rational side...
antigua
Posted by rskontos on June 28, 2009, at 15:13:11
In reply to Re: Victim/Survivor terminology**possible sa trigger » seldomseen, posted by antigua3 on June 28, 2009, at 12:08:52
Antigua,
Sometimes I feel that we are trying to make sense of something that occurred at a time when as a human we are unable to protect ourselves. The very people delegated to protecting us are the harmfully ones. So, now as an adult we try to make sense of all of it: our feelings, emotions, thoughts, etc through adult logic but we are not completely adults yet. We are emotionally still stuck in some ways with those unresolved feelings of that child that was hurt. A child hurt and then had to take those feelings and shove them down to a place where no one could see (an adult way to take harm and deal with it). We weren't adults yet we had to act like one quickly. Don't tell, this is a secret. As children most children can't keep a secret no matter what. I mean those innocent secrets. Like who likes whom or your big sister/brother did something they said don't tell mom or dad. Those secrets are hard for children to keep and yet when we are abused we must keep it secret and that makes it hard and shameful.
To tell you the truth we are dealing today with what happened so long ago as if we were still that child/yet we are not. It is an impossible situation. Because as an adult we see what we would do now if something like that happened, tried to protect ourselves. And it is hard to see ourselves then and now and to rationalize the different parts and emotions that belong to which part-the adult or the child. And during all this we are to try and adjust our wåy of thinking to blend everything together and be survivors. When we feel like anything but that.
Yes, words are hard things sometimes to make sense of. And do remember your p-doc and you are in very different places so the words will mean different things to each.
Control is another one of those words to me. It is hard to think about control and how it shapes us as people.
I too think I was pre-verbal and often those feelings arise and I just don't know what to do with them. I call them my sad feelings. I can't figure out yet what to do with them.
And vulnerable is a good word too. All children are vulnerable.
And as for those situations as an adult we never wanted to return to--it just sucks that we still trip over our childhood feelings that allow us to be sucked back into a situation of which our control seems limited.
I am sorry you are feeling so bad. I can't articulate just how I feel right now, but I wanted to tell you how I felt and hope somehow it helps you too.
take care my friend.
rsk
Posted by antigua3 on June 29, 2009, at 9:02:07
In reply to Re: Victim/Survivor terminology**possible sa trigg, posted by rskontos on June 28, 2009, at 15:13:11
This is the end of the thread.
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