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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 19 to 43 of 76. Go back in thread:
Posted by DaisyM on January 5, 2004, at 0:54:29
In reply to Re: (Long) He's not suppose to ask leading questions » fallsfall, posted by Karen_kay on January 4, 2004, at 20:26:16
Karen,
I can "hear" your pain and frustration! Maybe you can tell him that you can't "say" stop but you could raise your finger, or something.
I don't know why he is repeating your stories back to you -- mine doesn't do that. He will ask (very carefully) if it was hard to see such and such or if this or that triggered something...or if I'm talking about an issue, he might say I think you probably reacted to that because of this...
Ultimately, you must believe that you ARE in charge and begin to take control. Ask questions: where are we going with this? How might I move on? Could we work on positive future goals for awhile? The past will wait until you are ready to deal with it.
You DO have feelings, I can hear them in your posts. You are not heartless or less anything. What you are dealing with is really, really, painful which is why your subconscience is protecting you from it. Don't beat yourself up for "giving in" to your boyfriend or anyone else. Sometimes there just isn't the energy. But realize that your choice (you are making one)is not saying no (verses saying yes). YOU still have power. It will grow. It just takes time.
Now that the Holidays are over hopefully things will settle down for you.
I'm thinking about you.
-D
Posted by fallsfall on January 5, 2004, at 14:54:49
In reply to Re: (Long) He's not suppose to ask leading questions » fallsfall, posted by Karen_kay on January 4, 2004, at 20:26:16
"But you control the session and you can tell me to stop if you want to and that's how this relationship is different than the one you had with him. You can speak up and say no and I'll stop if you want me to."
Karen,
I know this is so hard for you. He makes you feel like the little kid, with him the nasty adult. You shouldn't have to feel like the little, abused kid any more (you shouldn't have been abused at all...). The only way that you will get out of that role, though, is to fight your way out. You ARE a fighter. You have lots of guts. You need to use those talents now to tell the abusive adult that you won't let him do that to you any more.
Karen, this IS transference. You see him as controlling and cruel. But in reality he isn't. In reality he wants to help you. But because you learned so well when you were little that you would be controlled, you have put him into that role. You are playing the role you learned so well, and have put him in the role that you are so used to seeing.It's almost like we can't see other people any other way. This is the way we have learned to see life - for you being little and controlled, for me always being wrong no matter how hard I try. Your transference with your therapist is different than my transference with my therapist because we had different experiences when we were little. I was never good enough, so now, even as an adult, I keep trying and trying but I'm still never good enough. That is how I learned to live my life - never good enough. But in order for me to be "never good enough", I need someone who will be critical - who will want more than I can do. So I put my therapist in that role. I search his face for signs of disappointment, I listen to his tone of voice for frustration or exasperation - and I find those things, even if they aren't really there. When he winces, maybe it isn't that he is disappointed in me, maybe he has an ingrown toe nail. When he sounds frustrated, maybe it isn't that I'm not doing the right thing, maybe his daughter wouldn't listen when he gave some good advice that morning. Maybe I'm seeing things that either aren't there, or certainly aren't as bad as I make them. But *I* am so used to being "not good enough" that it actually makes me comfortable to see these things - because it leaves me in a world that I understand.
For me, the solution is to hear him tell me that he's not disappointed, that I'm not failing - and to find a way to believe him. I guess I started to wonder why would he lie to me (and tell me that he wasn't disappointed in me)? What did he have to gain from that? I couldn't think of a reason, but if I was able to trust that he was a good person and a good therapist, then maybe I could believe that he was telling me the truth. And maybe I'm NOT disappointing him. Maybe I'm not intrisically "bad". Maybe I'm really OK, and either some people in my past have not recognized that truth, or maybe I misread their signals, too. When I could believe that he wasn't disappointed - that it was possible for me to NOT disappoint him - then I could see that I had been looking through my own filters instead of being able to see what was really true. But the first time I believed that he wasn't disappointed wasn't enough, nor the second, I think we've done it three times now, and I know we'll do it again and again. But now when I start to think he must be disappointed in me I stop and try to look beyond my filters to see what is really true - and at this point, I still have to ask him "You aren't disappointed in me, are you?". Then he looks at me like I have 3 heads and says "Why in the world would I be disappointed in you?". Some day I won't have to ask anymore.
So, what does this have to do with you? You have filters, too. Your filters are different from mine. Your filters say that the other person will continue to make you unhappy, even though they know that you want them to stop. You are so convinced that they will continue making you unhappy that you think that it is completely futile to ask (or tell) them to stop what they are doing. But, Karen, not everyone is like the people in your past who wouldn't stop making you unhappy. Your therapist has told you that he will stop *if you ask him to*. All you have to do is ask. And he will stop. You need to know that *your* requests matter and that people will listen. So tell him to stop. And he will prove to you that your requests matter. Let him prove that to you. Let him prove to you that when you ask him to stop that the world gets better instead of worse. Take a chance with him, and see if it works. I bet it will.
And, if you are at all like me, the high you will feel when your "Stop" makes a difference will blow your socks off.
Posted by Karen_kay on January 5, 2004, at 16:11:47
In reply to Maybe you need a signal » Karen_kay, posted by DaisyM on January 5, 2004, at 0:54:29
I can think of a finger I'd like to raise when he gets like that :) But, I can't move. I can't speak. In my mind I'm screaming "STOP IT!" but the words don't make it to my lips. And I feel like if I say something I'm avoiding the issue or I'm not being strong enough. I was the one who told him he had to push me. I mean, he's the therapist. He's the one who knows what he's doing. I sure don't. He should be able to tell from my reaction that it is too much for me to take.
Maybe I could start out the session on Tuesday with this. That would make it easier. But it always starts the same way. Typical beginning:
Him: "How was your week?"
Me: Complaints, ect. "And yours?"
Him: Complaints, ect. "Have you thought about your father?"From there it begins... No buffer really, nothing. It just starts. If I try to deny that I haven't thought about it then he begins talking about the things I have told him or talking about dreams I have told him. And he goes into vivid details. I basically just sit there in a daze most of the session anyway. Hmmm, and I wonder why my anxiety is going through the roof? Well, I did just call my Pdoc to get some anxiety meds. I haven't taken them in well over 3 months but I need something to help unclench my jaw :( It's progress! At least I'm admitting there's a problem....
Posted by Karen_kay on January 5, 2004, at 16:34:00
In reply to Re: (Long) He's not suppose to ask leading questions » Karen_kay, posted by fallsfall on January 5, 2004, at 14:54:49
But he IS a bad guy! He HAS to be. I can't be wrong about this one, just can't be :( I know and completely understand that this is transference (at its worst!!) But why do I have to fight? Is that the only possible solution? If so, that's just horrible! I feel set up! It just seems impossible at the time. I CAN'T speak. I mean, I don't even know how I manage to breathe. And I usually am not at a loss for words, so this situation is new for me. But it is IMPOSSIBLE for me to speak. And even as we sit there in silence for what seems like an eternity I still am unable to talk. Usually it lasts for aobut 15 minutes. And the jerk thinks that I'm trying to "contol the situation" by purposely being silent. He's a dreadful shrink. (I don't really mean that, he's just confused :) He obviously doesn't understand the impact of these sessions. I suppose I *could* tell him. But, I don't want to appear weak. Or look like I have feelings. Or that I'm scared. UGH!!!
I hope that one day soon you don't feel as if you aren't good enough. Your posts are always insightful. I'm glad that you had the courage to ask if he was disappointed in you. And I hope that one day you'll have the insight to know that he's not, so you won't have to ask anymore. I also hope your therapist gets his toe nail looked at and that his daughter starts taking his advice. Maybe then your sessions will begin moving a bit smoother as well. :)
Thanks for your post. I appreciate it
Karen
Posted by fallsfall on January 5, 2004, at 22:23:16
In reply to Re: (Long) He's not suppose to ask leading questions » fallsfall, posted by Karen_kay on January 5, 2004, at 16:34:00
Well, I think you do have to fight. Just my uneducated opinion, you understand.
After I read your post, all I could think of was you sitting with a large card upside down on your lap (a la Newlywed Game). At the appropriate time you hold up your card. It says "STOP".
Maybe, though, you can do this in stages. Talking about how it affects you and how you think he should stop because he knows that you want him to might be a first step. Or starting out a session saying that you don't want to talk about you father, you want to talk about [insert some other reasonably significant topic here]. Maybe the first step would be *preventing* the situation. That would require you to take control and direct what is happening, but maybe you wouldn't be so tied up that you couldn't speak. [I do understand not being able to speak - I used to sit there opening and closing my mouth trying to make the words come out. I knew exactly what words I needed to say, but I couldn't make my mouth form those words. It is an awful feeling.]
"But, I don't want to appear weak. Or look like I have feelings. Or that I'm scared. UGH!!!"
Geeze, Karen, your therapist's office is where you NEED to do these things. I wish I had your strength - I walk in his office with "weak and dependent" written all over me. Wanna trade a bit? I'll give you some weak and dependent and you can give me some strength?
I do see you making significant progress over time. You are working on incredibly hard stuff. Sometimes it is a major accomplishment just to walk through the door into a session, because you know how hard that session will be.
I asked my therapist today if I call him on the phone too much. He looked shocked and said "The short answer is NO". We talked about it a little, and he asked if I thought that he was annoyed by my calls. I said that I didn't really think that, but I just had to check. He thought that was OK. It really is getting easier. But fighting through the transference was probably the hardest work I have done in therapy.
Go, Karen! Go, Karen! Go, Karen, Go!
[That's me, cheering you on]
Posted by Karen_kay on January 5, 2004, at 23:46:59
In reply to Re: (Long) He's not suppose to ask leading questions » Karen_kay, posted by fallsfall on January 5, 2004, at 22:23:16
Well, I think you do have to fight. Just my uneducated opinion, you understand.
*I understand :) But, I'm afraid if I do actually say no, it's going to be BAD! And I mean B-A-D, bad! Like, me stomping my feet, and screaming so loud that everyone in the building can hear it, and ripping off my clothes hmmm >) well, you get the idea... I mean this has been building for quite a while, you know. And I don't think that it will just come out with me whimpering a simple "Please sir, kindly stop what you're doing." Oh no! I could be wrong, and I hope I am. Maybe I'm just being overly dramatic, but I really hate not being in control. And I fear losing control even more. And in that situation I feel like I have absolutely NO control. And if I have the power to take it back, I will. But, I just can't....
But, if I go in and say I don't want to talk about my father then he'll accuse me of avoiding the issue. He's done it before. I said I didn't want to get too heavy into it before finals, for good reason as I had finals. He said that he could understand why but that I just keep trying to put it off. If not now, then when. It isn't that I keep avoiding it, it is just that it is ALL we talk about. It is ALL I think about. It consumes my life. He seems to think that I can resolve this issue before I leave this town (in 1.5 years). I disagree. I do need to get things figure out. I have a very bad memory, to the point that I have a hard time remembering my age, I can't remember names for anything, ect... I can't even remember the house I grew up in and we didn't move at all. So, it it obviously affecting me and I need to deal with it. I just don't think the way we are dealing with it is right. It is just causing me to retreat and to be anxious and to dislike my therapist. It's causing me to not want to deal with it even more. At first, I was determined to "figure it all out." No matter what, I didn't care. I figured not knowing was worse than knowing. Now, I just want to stop. The anxiety is too much. My jaw hurts! :( I just want to unclench it, and it has been clenched for almost a month. Can you make it stop???? (Please wave your magic wand here, please...)
I'd never ask my therapist if he was annoyed by my calls. I'd be too afraid of his answer. I actually had to call him this week to change my appointment (something I vowed to never do after he didn't return my last call!!!) and he was sweet as pie on the phone. I wasn't though! I won't call him in the event of an emergency. I have my Pdoc's number and I also have a crisis number for the place he works. I'd prefer Not to talk to him if I need someone to speak with. I think he's having some countertransference issues or something going on, seriously! But, he's always reassuring me that I don't call too much, which I know. I never even ask him, he just volunteers the info. I think I've called him maybe 5 times to "talk" and maybe 7 times to schedule or rschedule appointments. I just don't want to get too close to him. I don't want him to think that I "like" him in any way. I mean we've totally discussed transference issues candidly without a problem. But, I don't want to take a chance that I become dependent on therapy. I don't want to take a chance that he lets me down. I'm keeping him at arm's length. I hope he knows it too! Serves him right. If he didn't screw up all the time, maybe I'd be a better client. (I didn't mean all of that, it's just my way of justifying it!)
I wish I had your strength - I walk in his office with "weak and dependent" written all over me. Wanna trade a bit? I'll give you some weak and dependent and you can give me some strength?
*You can gladly have some of my so-called strength. But, I don't want to be weak and dependent. (no offense) We can just throw that away, ok?
Thanks fallsfall, thanks fallsfall, thanks fallsfall thanks! [That's me thanking you! I really appreciate it!]
I see him tomorrow! Wish me luck and hope he doesn't put me away :) (And he did do that once, stupid jerk!)
Posted by fallsfall on January 6, 2004, at 8:19:47
In reply to Re: (Long) He's not suppose to ask leading questions » fallsfall, posted by Karen_kay on January 5, 2004, at 23:46:59
OK. I understand the losing control and yelling and screaming. I would just collapse in a puddle, but I can see how you would yell and scream. And I can see how losing control like that would be scary.
Can you tell him that you want to tell him to stop when he's talking about your father, but that you're afraid of yelling and screaming. You can talk about losing control for a while and what that means (that will waste some time). So you want to tell him to stop BEFORE he starts talking about your father. That you are not trying to avoid talking about your father - that you are taking a conscious step to set a limit and tell him to stop. But that for today, you have to do that before he starts. Maybe on another day you can tell him after he starts talking about your dad. If you tell him WHY you don't want to talk about him - BECAUSE you are setting a limit and taking control, it might work.
Or when he says "Have you thought about your father?" you can say "STOP" then, before it gets any farther? Or maybe that is for a couple of weeks from now.
I understand the terror. Believe me. Facing the transference and breaking through it was SOOOOOOOO hard to do. It was incredibly painful and absolutely terrifying. But, you know what? I did it and I came out the other end. And I'm proud of myself. And it makes therapy easier because I'm not so terrified that he's mad at me all the time. And I can ask when I need reassurance - and he's so sweet about giving me reassurance.
It is SOOOOOOOO hard. But... isn't the way you are living SOOOOOOOO hard? It's like taking off a bandaid - you can do it S_L_O_W_L_Y or you can do it FAST, but you HAVE to do it. And you will be so relieved when it is done.
it is a little hard to type with my fingers crosses (and yes, they are crossed right now) - so go for it!!!!!!
Falls-on-your-side
Posted by DaisyM on January 6, 2004, at 15:21:06
In reply to Re: (Long) He's not suppose to ask leading questions » fallsfall, posted by Karen_kay on January 5, 2004, at 23:46:59
>>>Like, me stomping my feet, and screaming so loud that everyone in the building can hear it, and ripping off my clothes..
So what if you did? I mean, really. And it is pretty unlikely that you will COMPLETELY lose control -- I bet you at least leave you clothes on!
I understand your fear. For me, losing control, even if it is control of the time in the session, sends me over the edge. But, maybe you could ask him what he would do if you lost control? I told my Therapist that I was afraid to cry because there was so much to cry about I was afraid I'd never stop. He said "I know. But I'm afraid you'll never feel safe enough to start. And that is worse." I even had a dream that he asked me to leave because I started to cry. I told him about the dream and he said it meant that I still didn't feel safe, and that made him sad.
I agree with Falls...this is transference, BIG TIME. I like the idea of the card, make it and take it with you! Tell yourself that you are not a little kid anymore and YOU have control over this second. And then this minute. And then the next 5 minutes. Slowly you will build up to it.
Let me know how today went. I'm thinking about you.
-D
Posted by Dinah on January 6, 2004, at 16:55:45
In reply to It is OK to lose control » Karen_kay, posted by DaisyM on January 6, 2004, at 15:21:06
Oh, that is so *nice*. I think I like your therapist. If I ever lose mine, and Pfinstegg's isn't available, can I share him?
Posted by Karen_kay on January 6, 2004, at 17:04:55
In reply to It is OK to lose control » Karen_kay, posted by DaisyM on January 6, 2004, at 15:21:06
We talked. And talked. And it lasted forever. I told him that I didn't like him and that I didn't trust him. He asked if that was really true. I said that I did like him but that sometimes I trusted him but sometimes I don't.
I told him how much it upset me that he thought I was playing some sort of joke on him and he didn't call me back. I told him that it actually made me cry, and it did. He said that in the past "girls" have called him with their friends laughing in the background and he thought it was the same situation. I told him that it hurt me that he thought I would want to waste his time like that. And it did HURT me. And I swear I thought he was going to cry! He aid he was sorry and I believe him. I guess we all make mistakes, I'll let it go but when he makes me mad in the future, I'll bring it up because I'm like that. I wish I wasn't but I am.
He also said that he puts me in the situation where I need to be more assertive and say that I don't want to discuss the matter and further. And I told him that hurts me to. That he's jsut reaffirming in my head that I can't trust men, that they just continue to "set me up" and put me in situations that I have no control.
He said that he cared about me...Ahhh!!! Isn't that sweet??? And that he isn't going to hurt me. That our relationship is different than others I've had in the past. But, I don't believe him. So, sat there for about 5 minutes and processed it. But, this time I told him what I was thinking afterwards (YAHOO!!!!! I did it!!!) I said.. Well, I know that he won't hurt me. And I know why I don't trust men. And I know that logically he can't hurt me, but he's caused me alot of pain. Before I came in, I adored my father. And I still do, honestly. I'm able to seperate things. But, I just can't trust him because I think and *feel* like he's going to hurt me. And I feel like his motivations behind everything he says are manipulative. And I told him I'm just projecting my feelings, I realize this, logically. But, I just feel this way. I an't help it. I want to change it, I really do... I just don't know how... I told him that it would be helpful if before he said something he would make a statement explaining the motivations behind it. He said that then he would be giving away the tricks of the trade....
He said that my anxiety is from the last dream I had. It makes sense. That is when it started. It was a powerful dream. And it coincides with a memory that was brought up to. He says that it is my defences trying to say, "It's too early for you to remember this, you aren't ready yet." That makes sense as well. I've been avoiding thinking about the dream.
He says that if I feel that he is pushing me too hard then he will back off. But, maybe he isn't really. Maybe it is just me trying to avoid everything, as I am apt to do.
He's a really good therapist. I think I'm going to write him a thank you card now :) It was a good session. I have to call to reschedule, as I didn't have my class schedule with me. He said, I promise I'll call you back. And I believe him. I want so much to trust him. It is just so very hard. And he wants me to cry. But like you said, if I cry about the things I should cry aobut, I'm afraid I'll never stop. If I *feel* like I should about hte things I should feel about, I'm afraid I'll go insane. It's so much easier not to feel anything about the things I should feel, you know? I mean, I don't even know how I should feel aobut what happened to me. I don't want to feel bad things about my father or my mother for what happened to me because I'm afraid I won't be able to seperate those feelings from the love I have for those people. And I DO love my father. I love him so very much. And I miss him and wish he was still alive. I'd live through all of that again, jsut to have more time with him.
There, now I'm crying... Where's Mark when I need him?? :)
Posted by antigua on January 6, 2004, at 17:26:48
In reply to Neurontin, Take me away! » DaisyM, posted by Karen_kay on January 6, 2004, at 17:04:55
I haven't corresponded w/you before but I do want you to know how wonderful I think you are. You are very brave and you are taking the steps you need to--no matter how hard or impossible they may be.
I speak from experience. I haven't written this here before but maybe it's time. My father died 12 years ago. I was very close to him most of my life; he was my world when I was a little girl and I cared for him while he was dying. It wasn't until after he died that I started to realize/remember/acknowledge (whatever you want to call it) that he sexually abused me when I was a very young child. Everything was clouded by how much I loved him. My initial defense was that if I couldn't remember it, it didn't really happen, and it took my therapist many years to convince me to believe in myself and what I was remembering. There were just too many signs to ignore.
I now remember a lot more of what happened to me. I truly believe I could never have done this while he was still alive. While I have snapshots of memories the hardest part has been trying to get in touch w/my feelings about all this. I mean I loved my father more than anyone and how could someone who loved me have done these things to me?? I have been doing EMDR to reach the feelings and (un)fortunately it has really worked. I remember how badly I felt, how shamed and disgusted I felt--I never felt badly about him.
Today I had my EMDR session and it was very hard. My T was trying to get me to reach the anger, the anger that every single T, friend, counselor, etc. has said that I have but which I cannot acknowledge or let go of, or let out. I am too afraid to let the anger come out because I am afraid that I will lose control. We talked a lot about losing control. You know, the old "what's the worst that could happen" talk. I don't know what the worst is but I cannot face it, it is much too frightening. My T says that's the little girl talking and I am safe now, but it still feels exactly the same. It's as if I let the anger out then all the walls and defenses I have so carefully constructed will come tumbling down. And if the walls come down, what do I have left?
My regular therapist says that we will go as slow as I need to. But after 12 years, even I think it's about time I let it go. I still can't seem to do that, which leads me to believe that there is still so much I don't know and so much I still have to be afraid of.
As to my mother, I haven't told her about all this because I haven't wanted that relationship to change. I'm not strong enough for that either. Again, I love her very much.
In any case, you are not alone. My biggest obstacle has been reconciling my feelings of great love for my father with the beast that he would become when he came into my room at night.
I hope this isn't too much for you. I wish you well--you are doing a really good job.
antigua
Posted by DaisyM on January 6, 2004, at 17:28:34
In reply to Re: It is OK to lose control » DaisyM, posted by Dinah on January 6, 2004, at 16:55:45
Ok, but only if you agree to *not* be a more perfect client than me.
Perfection, BTW, was the topic of conversation today. He agree's I'm perfect. He just doesn't agree that this is a good thing! :)
Posted by DaisyM on January 6, 2004, at 17:40:55
In reply to Neurontin, Take me away! » DaisyM, posted by Karen_kay on January 6, 2004, at 17:04:55
Karen -- here is my shoulder and I'm wearing cashmere -- it is soft and cuddly and you can stay as long as you need/want...
It sounds like a really hard, really good session. I'm proud of what you did and did so well! Good for you! You made him think and that is huge.
Trust is an ambiguous creature. It can be fleeting and it has so many levels. You'll get there. Think of the trust it took to say the things you said today.
I know you miss your dad. This is really hard and so confusing. It is totally ok to love and miss HIM and hate the things that happened. My Therapist today told me healing takes a really, really long time. We (I love that he says we!) have to grieve it all first and then begin to move past it. And stay sane while we do this. So slow is the best course of action.
Figuring out the source of your anxiety is a good step towards resolving it. Tonight and tomorrow will probably be hard but keep posting and writing. We are here for you.
Warm thoughts.
-D
Posted by DaisyM on January 6, 2004, at 17:50:57
In reply to Re: Neurontin, Take me away! » Karen_kay, posted by antigua on January 6, 2004, at 17:26:48
antigua,
Your post was very brave. It sounds like you have had quite a struggle. I'm sorry for all that you have gone through.
I'm curious, have you thought about telling your mom? My Therapist asked me recently if I would ever tell mine. Emphatically, the answer is NO. I can't see what good it would do. I'm sure it would just cause more disruption.
Having a loving relationship with your father, aside from the abuse, really makes it more confusing, don't you think? My dad, BTW, is still living. He happens to live pretty far away from me though so I don't see him much. But in the past 20 years we have gotten so much closer. I feel like all that is threatened now that I'm trying to sort out how the past is affecting the present, especially my current ability to cope with life.
I wish you well on your journey.
Daisy
Posted by Dinah on January 6, 2004, at 17:54:21
In reply to Re: It is OK to lose control » Dinah, posted by DaisyM on January 6, 2004, at 17:28:34
LOLOLOL
You have my absolute positive word that I won't be more perfect than you. In fact you'll be able to assure yourself he has a worse client than you, no matter what.
My therapist told me today not only that he was angry with me, but that I could be really annoying sometimes. He then said that I wasn't so annoying that he didn't like me or didn't want to be my therapist, and added that everyone was really annoying sometimes. And that I got really annoyed with him sometimes too.
All of which is true. So why do I feel so cr*ppy?
Posted by antigua on January 6, 2004, at 18:09:24
In reply to Re: Neurontin, Take me away! » antigua, posted by DaisyM on January 6, 2004, at 17:50:57
OK, I'm new at this. My message was for both you and Karen.
Daisy, thanks for responding. Yes, I've thought of telling my mother. Actually there was a day when I called my therapist to tell her that I knew I would never get over this until I did speak w/her about it. She was thrilled! But I'm not ready to do that yet. My brother was also sexually abused when he was a teenager by someone other than my father, actually by a well-respected, well-known educator/lawyer who my mother brought into our midsts after my father left. My brother confronted my mother years later and she denied that she knew anything about it, despite the fact that she knew that a young boy actually slept in the same room/bed as the creep (this guy makes Michael Jackson almost look sane!).
In any case, the relationship between my brother and mother has been ruined. He doesn't believe she didn't know (kind of the same w/me, how could she not have at least been suspicious?) and she thinks he is just being "awful". I'm not ready to give up my relationship w/her right now. But I know this is key. Maybe I'm hoping she will die before I have to do this? Isn't that a horrible thought?
Thanks for listening,
antigua
Posted by DaisyM on January 6, 2004, at 18:10:50
In reply to Re: It is OK to lose control » DaisyM, posted by Dinah on January 6, 2004, at 17:54:21
You feel crummy because WE are allowed to say we are annoying, etc. but they aren't suppose to confirm it! But, you should take it as a huge compliment that he trusts you enough to tell you. I'm pretty sure mine wouldn't because he knows I would bolt.
It must be in the Therapist's manual to tell clients something like this in January. Very *VERY* gently today my Therapist talked about how he thought it was so great that I came back today and that I should think about being open to adding a few extra sessions here and there due to the level of stress I'm under and the stuff we are dealing with. He also said "I know this probably freaks you out on a variety of levels."
I reminded him of my fear of becoming the classic "pain in the a**" client -- and now look what was happening. He laughed and said I was NOT a pain the a** but it would be ok with him if I was from time to time. Or that I might at least try to get closer to it!
*sigh* So now in order to be the perfect therapy client, I'm suppose to be a pain in the a**! I can't win!
What did you do that made him mad?
Posted by Karen_kay on January 6, 2004, at 18:55:05
In reply to Re: Neurontin, Take me away! » Karen_kay, posted by antigua on January 6, 2004, at 17:26:48
Wow! It seems we are in the same situation, except you are way past me :( My father died of cancer and he died when I tried to move him. And I still feel guilty that it is my fault that he died. I know logically that it isn't but still, you know?? So, when I started therapy the ONLY thing positive I had from my childhood was memories of my father. Then I started to remember small things that happened, which led to nightmares and flashbacks. And I'm still trying to convince myself that it isn't real, that these things didn't happen. That the nightmares and flashbacks are just symptoms from medication or dpepression, except I'm finally not depressed. So, I know logically that it is true. It does add up. I just don't want to believe it. I want my mother to be the bad guy, not my father. Never mind that the same thing happened to my sister as well. And my other sister is suffering from severe memory loss too. I'll just ignore that because I LOVE my daddy!
And I could never tell my mother, NEVER!! When my sister told her, she got kicked out of the house. Noone believed her, and she was a child. I believed her, though at the time, I wasn't aware of anything going on with me. But, I always believed her. And I wish I could talk to my other sister, to help her but she would deny it. The thing is, I was daddy's favorite. It's just strange the way things work. And it makes me feel even worse because I just don't feel like I KNOW for SURE, you know???? Like I need to SEE it to be absolutely POSITIVE. Maybe I wouldn't want to see it. That would just be too much. I just don't trust my memory and I don't trust myself. Maybe I just don't want too!
Thank you for sharing your story. I do so appeciate it, honestly! It helps to know that someone else has a story similar to mine. Please keep posting, PLEASE!!! :)
Posted by Karen_kay on January 6, 2004, at 19:12:43
In reply to Re: Neurontin, Take me away! » Karen_kay, posted by DaisyM on January 6, 2004, at 17:40:55
> Karen -- here is my shoulder and I'm wearing cashmere -- it is soft and cuddly and you can stay as long as you need/want...
*I adore cashmere :) But my makeup might smear on it. Do you want to rethink your offer? :)
It sure is sweet though. I'm feeling much better now that I have anxiety meds, and I don't have to take 1800 mgs like I did in the past. That's really nice!!
> It sounds like a really hard, really good session. I'm proud of what you did and did so well! Good for you! You made him think and that is huge.*It was a really good session I think. It made us both think about some things. I've really been shutting down during the sessions and I think talking to him may help him realize why. I got a lot out of the session. I hope he did too! He thanked me for pointing some things out to him to "help him be a better therapist" and I told him I'll have a whole list next week :) I'm mean sometimes!
> Trust is an ambiguous creature. It can be fleeting and it has so many levels. You'll get there. Think of the trust it took to say the things you said today.*I know I trust him or I wouldn't be able to tell him the things I do. It's easy to say things on the computer because you aren't staring at someone face to face. But to look someone in the eye and tell them your "secrets", that takes trust. It's just that sometimes I trust him less than others. And it's not entirely his fault...
> I know you miss your dad. This is really hard and so confusing. It is totally ok to love and miss HIM and hate the things that happened. My Therapist today told me healing takes a really, really long time. We (I love that he says we!) have to grieve it all first and then begin to move past it. And stay sane while we do this. So slow is the best course of action.*Your therapist sounds wonderful! It sounds like you have a great relationship together. I think that my biggest problem is that I still deny, in my heart, that it happened. I know that it did. But I still don't accept it. I'm still waiting for more proof. I don't know exactly what I'm expecting, but I am still waiting. I guess I j still just don't want to believe it.
>
> Figuring out the source of your anxiety is a good step towards resolving it. Tonight and tomorrow will probably be hard but keep posting and writing. We are here for you.*Yes, I know. I really didn't even consider that dream to be the source. I mean it is just a stupid dream. But, looking back, I can see how it could cause me such anxiety. I need to quit avoiding it and start thinking about it. I just don't want to. Will you do it for me? PLEASE??? I'll pay you a dollar :)
>
> Warm thoughts.
> -DThank you sweetie! Your posts help out so much! You really can't know how much! Did you go today? Are you feeling better hun? I hope so! I'm thinking about you as well. I didn't think I'd get so wrapped up in ths place, but it seems I am. And I'm glad :)
Karen
Posted by antigua on January 6, 2004, at 20:01:40
In reply to Re: Neurontin, Take me away! » antigua, posted by Karen_kay on January 6, 2004, at 18:55:05
I always have felt responsible for my father's death too because I was the one who gave the order to initiate the morphine. He had heart failure and he had given me that task of deciding when. But we both knew he would quickly slip into a coma and die once the order was given. So rationally I know I didn't kill him, but there is some part of me that still thinks I'm responsible.
I know what you mean about sisters. I have one older sister who has disliked me my entire life. I mean she has really hated me since I was kid and I never ever knew why. My whole family will agree that she has always been really mean to me. Well, I finally figured out why she hates me so much. She's not aware of this yet (she's focused on hating my mother but doesn't really know why, but I do) but I'm sure my father abused her too and once he turned from her to me she was just so angry. I need to discuss this w/my sister because she needs to know, but at the moment she is really unstable and as I said, she really doesn't like me very much.
Oh the trials and tribulations... I will keep posting. This was actually really hard to do, I didn't think it would be, but it does hurt when you say it out loud here.
Best,
antigua
Posted by Karen_kay on January 6, 2004, at 20:13:41
In reply to Re: Neurontin, Take me away! » Karen_kay, posted by antigua on January 6, 2004, at 20:01:40
Luckily, my sisters and I love each other very much. We talk almost daily. It seems we only had each other growing up, so we still have very strong bonds.
I'm sorry you and your sister don't get along as well as you'd like. It's hard to talk about these thngs. I finally was able to talk to the sister that it happened to. And she called me back that day crying, saying that if she had stayed then it wouldn't have happened to me. We both know that isn't true. But I felt bad for telling her because now she feels guilty and I don't want that either. The only problem is that she talked to my aunt, who then called me... And now I'm really anxious about that as well.. And people wonder why I have problems trusting??? Sheesh!!It does hurt to *say* it here. And sometimes I reread my posts and I wonder "Who wrote that? Where was I" I honestly don't remember any of it. It is a truly strange feeling indeed! But, it is nice to get it out, and to know I'm not alone in this. And it is really nice to know there is someone else out there listening, not jsut pretending to listen. I'm tired of that. I'm tired of paying someone to listen to me speak! Thank you all for listening! It sure is nice :)
Posted by fallsfall on January 6, 2004, at 22:44:14
In reply to Re: Neurontin, Take me away! » antigua, posted by Karen_kay on January 6, 2004, at 20:13:41
Karen,
I am so proud of you.
You did a great job today. It took a lot of courage to talk to him and tell him how you were really feeling.
Trust is really hard, particularly when people have violated our trust in the past.
Yeah, Karen. Yeah, Karen. Yeah, Karen, Yeah!!!!!
Posted by Karen_kay on January 7, 2004, at 10:17:13
In reply to Hard work » Karen_kay, posted by fallsfall on January 6, 2004, at 22:44:14
Fallsfall...
Thank you for being proud of me. And thank you for the posts. It was hard to tell him how much he hurt my feelings. And it was hard to tell him how I've been feeling lately. But, I'm glad I did. The thing is, I'm not sure I would have except as the appointment started a nurse came in and handed me a script for my anxiety medication. And he asked about it :( So, I couldn't lie any longer... Darn it! I was caught red-handed. I think I was just going to contiune with the lie that I was fine except that the nurse had to give me my script. It's a good thing she did in a way.And trusting him is really hard. I trust him sometimes. But sometimes I don't. I wish I could trust him all of the time. But that's hard to do. Maybe one day. But I can't honestly say I trust anyone completely either. There isn't anyone that I trust completely. I don't even trust myself, how can I trust someone else?
Thanks for cheering me on!
How are you doing? Hope your therapy is going well. Your day is coming. I FEEL it. I'm sending you strength. Can you feel it. I'm getting weaker by the second, you should be feeling stronger as you read this....
Posted by Dinah on January 7, 2004, at 16:58:02
In reply to Neurontin, Take me away! » DaisyM, posted by Karen_kay on January 6, 2004, at 17:04:55
Good work, Karen. I hope you're proud of yourself. :)
Posted by Pfinstegg on January 7, 2004, at 20:21:59
In reply to Re: Neurontin, Take me away! » antigua, posted by Karen_kay on January 6, 2004, at 18:55:05
This is such a tough issue. I am in the same boat as the other people here who are trying to deal with abuse issues in therapy- all kinds, really- physical, sexual and maternal neglect. I really know what you are saying: we all seem to have a high level of emotional distress, but it is not directly connected to the actual abuse incidents. I also tend to recount these (to the extent that i know them) in an emotionless manner. I wonder, myself, where is the fear, anger and outrage which should be associated with these terrible things?
One approach which my analyst takes is to consider that the little girl who underwent these things is much more dissociated from the grown-up me than I ever realized. At the moment, we are working to establishing basic safety on the little girl's part. This involves a lot of fantasy, wishes and hopes which he has encouraged the little girl inside me to express. They are such simple little things; for example, today I fantasied that the little girl said to him (the analyst) that she did not want him to observe her when she changed into her shorts. He replied, "of course not. I want her to know I would never do anything to hurt her." I think the plan is to utilize fantasies like this to have "her" feel safe enough to eventually re-experience things more fully without becoming overwhelmed- or emotionally blank.
I think that I like this approach, as it may offer a way to get to the traumas in such a way that they aren't sealed off emotionally any more. Once I can get more in touch with them, I hope I'll be able to start really healing from them. Instead of talking about my actual parents, almost every session involves talking about what I am feeling, moment to moment, about my therapist- ALL the feelings are focussed on him. I notice that he helps me identify the feelings, but never says, "this is like what you felt towards your father". He just accepts them. I think he is functioning as a stand-in for the parents, but one who can offer a much more positive , safe relationship.
Does this seem anything like what the rest of you are experiencing in therapy?
Pfinstegg
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