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Re: Lock up gave me PTSD *trigger* » Shy_Girl

Posted by Larry Hoover on May 19, 2005, at 7:42:42

In reply to Re: Lock up gave me PTSD *trigger* » alexandra_k, posted by Shy_Girl on May 18, 2005, at 21:25:13

> > I don't know how things are done in the US...
> > Over here if someone is sectioned under the mental health act for compulsory assessment and treatment for more than 14 days then they have to appear before a judge. They have the right to appeal the section. The judge can (and sometimes does) decide that the p-doc shouldn't have sectioned the client. There wasn't grounds to.
>
> I actually live in Canada. I think a judge is needed to back-up the decision if the patient wants to challenge a stay of more than 3 days. In my case, I was only locked up for 3 days, so there was nothing I could do.

Because of the way federal and provincial responsibilities are split up in Canada, health care and perforce mental health fall under provincial jurisdiction. Jenny, I strongly recommend you read the relevant statute, the Mental Health Act. http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/DBLaws/Statutes/English/90m07_e.htm

The 72 hour assessment is not subject to judicial review. If the results of that assessment were that they wanted to involuntarily detain you for extended treamtment, you get the right to appeal that. The law provides that not only must you be provided with a copy of the order, but that hospital must immediately counsel you on how to appeal it, and how to obtain timely legal assistance. Once they've held you for 90 days, an appeal is automatically held.

> > My p-doc spent a lot of time in court defending his decisions. That is part of the process... It looks bad if too many of your decisions get reversed by the judge - so the safe-guards are actually pretty good.
>
> I'm sure my p-doc would never lock me up...she totally respects my decisions. The only reason why I was locked up was because no one bothered to call my p-doc about whether or not to lock me up. BTW, that is how I see it...being locked up, like in a jail.

I'm sorry jenny, but it's all explained in the Mental Health Act. A doctor must act if any of the criteria are met. Any of the criteria. There are some things doctors are compelled by law to decide on the basis of their own assessments, and those assessments alone.

> > Hmm.
> > You still have rights.
> > Did you ask anyone for information on your rights?
>
> Yes I did. I asked nicely again and again and again for the nurse to let me see a copy of the mental health act. I also repeatedly asked to see a lawyer, but apparently it wouldn't have done a thing in my case. It was soooo fustrating in there. BTW, there IS discrimination there. I would never have been ignored that way out in the real world!

You know what? This is another aspect of planning for those situations that make your life really difficult. The suicidal urges might get you back on another 72-hour assessment. You'll know, from reading the act, just to ride it out. There is no possible appeal to authority on a 72-hour hold.

The nurses answered your questions, and then you kept asking. You're being assessed on those behaviours too.

I'm going to ask you a totally tangential question. What would you give to never have another suicidal episode, and never end up on another 72-hour hold?

Possible answers include medication and counselling.

> > But sometimes nurses (especially) get f*cked off and say all sorts of crazy sh*t...
>
> Ya, it was only when I forced myself to be extra *nice* and *patient* that the nurses started to give me some attention. I wonder if it is some sort of behaviour modification thing...punish me by ignoring me when I'm "bad" and giving me attention when I'm "good"?

Of course it is! These nurses are very specially trained. You don't think the other patients weren't observing what was going on?

> > > I should've acted extra crazy in there, they expect that don't they?
>
> > And that...
> > might just show them that you are at risk of making impulsive decisions...
> > might show them that you are in fact a danger to yourself...
> > might show them that you don't want their help.
>
> I did kind of have a little tantrum in there, after being ignored for so long. I was so angry that I moved a chair out pass the "Do not cross line" and sat there...staring at the guy at the nurse's station with a dirty look on my face. After a while a nurse made me go back to my room...then I was angry and decided to throw some M&Ms down the little hall pass the line that leads to the exit.

They very likely cut you extra slack because you're a first-timer. Don't expect similar leeway if you return for another "visit". I'm serious. You don't want to end up in the rubber room (protective isolation facility, heh heh), with depo-Haldol i.m.

> Then the nurse talked some sense into me...she said that the p-docs where looking to see if I had insight and if I was impulsive and that my throwing things wasn't helping me. I really wanted to get the h*ll outta there, so I had to suck it up and comply.

If you had pushed one little bit more, I am pretty sure you'd have found out what it means to be committed for involuntary psychiatric care, the formal process that involves lawyers et al.

> Anyways, that place was horrible...no freedom to do anything. No freaking locks to the bathrooms! What the f*ck? G*d d*mn *t, if I ever, find myself back in that h*llh*le, I'll freaking show them...I'll f*cking hang myself...that'll show them how useful their "help" was.

That would show them what, exactly? And, what of the effect on the other patients? I know you're angry, but the patients on the ward are subject to twenty four hour observation. It is as safe an environment as can reasonably be maintained, given that some patients are voluntary, and most (if not all) can still receive visitors.

You don't want to find out what other, more secure, facilities are like.

> > I know it is hard...
> > I know that it can be hard...
> > But...
> > One has to try and make them *want* to help you
> > If you want their help.
>
> I didn't *need* their help...all I needed was a little medical help for my nonlethal overdose...that was all.

That's all you think you needed. An objective medical professional thought that your decisions were unsafe.

I urge you to reconsider this whole timeline in terms of your own decisions.

> > But when things turn to custard...
> > Then you do ask for help.
> > Life situations do make people feel happy or sad
> > But typically...
> > Not suicidal.
>
> I wasn't even suicidal when I was locked up. I *became* suicidal AFTER being locked up. They probably gave me PTSD...the m'er f'ers. And, so what if I'm suicidal...it's not like I'm homicidal...it is my own business what I want to do with *MY* life.

To a point. There are both legal and medical limits on that issue of competency.

Can we summarize a bit? It's clear you don't like the involuntary psych procedures. What behavioural choices are open to you to minimize or prevent their occurrence?

In your states of remission from suicidality, I again strongly urge you to push for and establish a self-treatment and management plan.

Medication can be a cornerstone for such a plan. Techniques learned in cognitive therapy can be solid foundations. Finding someone specific to call in an emergency could be another resource.

Lar

 

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poster:Larry Hoover thread:499309
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