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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 53. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on March 8, 2004, at 17:34:19
It's not really their fault. They're having a crisis, which means I'm having a crisis.
My brother just left for training to go to Afghanistan and won't be home for well over a year unless something unusual happens.
My mother is going into the hospital for 1 1/2 - 3 weeks for her foot infection (diabetic). My father is largely wheelchair bound and will be alone and while I'm willing to help as much as I can, I'm facing a work crunch and there's only so much time I have. He can't come live here. That's all agreed on with me, my husband, and my therapist, who thinks it would have an extremely detrimental effect on my mental health.
But he is being impossible. I know he's worried, but he refuses to do anything to help himself. He won't hire a sitter (or nurse or errand runner) and he really really needs one. He's already started calling me to run errands, and I've already told him I was going to have limit my trips to his house to once a day. I can only imagine how that's going to go over.
He's already told my mother how utterly selfish she is to be deserting him (for a three week holiday stay at the hospital having parts of her foot amputated). And that she is being totally controlling by trying to arrange things for him so that he can stay at home without a sitter as he insists he is determined to do (arranging for neighbor to bring over paper in morning, etc.). I can't even imagine how she puts up with him at a time when she's afraid for her own mobility. I guess he's just worried, but he's got a vicious tongue on him. Which is why he can't come here for three weeks. :(
I wonder if I offer to pay for the sitter to come a couple of hours a day, if he would accept. I seriously doubt it. It seems to be a matter of principle for him. :(
Posted by fayeroe on March 8, 2004, at 19:21:03
In reply to My family is driving me crazy., posted by Dinah on March 8, 2004, at 17:34:19
Dinah, I'm sorry that you are under so much stress right now. It sounds like your dad has made up his mind to be as difficult as possible while your mother is "getting the attention" by being away and being in the hospital. I am really glad that you aren't going to keep him in your home. It sounds like it would be impossible to remain calm with him there in your house. How old is he? If he would accept a sitter, you might try that and see how it goes for him. I'll keep you in my thoughts. Pat
Posted by bookgurl99 on March 8, 2004, at 20:35:36
In reply to My family is driving me crazy., posted by Dinah on March 8, 2004, at 17:34:19
Wow -- your poor mother.
It sounds like your dad is absolutely terrified at the changes that are going on. But, being used to the Dad roles of protector, defender, and all-around fearless being, he's being mean instead of admitting how he feels.
If my wife and I were getting older -- to the stage of old old and needing help -- I'm sure that I would be really scared. Both of the changes and of being alone eventually. Maybe he's really scared, and the requests to run errands are to get someone to come be near him right now.
I think you _could_ offer to help pay for a sitter if you feel your Dad needs it. Also, it may be a good idea to arrange for a meals-on-wheels type program so that he can have contact with someone else regularly.
good luck. :D
Posted by DaisyM on March 8, 2004, at 20:54:35
In reply to Re: My family is driving me crazy., posted by bookgurl99 on March 8, 2004, at 20:35:36
Dinah,
I'm sorry for your mom. As you know my husband is a Diabetic and it takes a tremendous toll on the body and then the mind gets involved..depression, anxiety..etc. So no picnic for you or her.
Something we do with clients who need help but are too proud, or trying to prove something is to remind them that "they are paying for it anyway, they might as well use it." If he has health insurance, often they will pay for home health for short periods of time. It is certainly less expensive than putting him in an assisted living space for awhile. Even if it is Medicare, remind him his taxes paid for it!!
The other trick is to ask him to do someone else a favor and keep them company. Local senior groups, lion's clubs, etc. often have people to help out doing things for anyone who's mobility is limited. These people need something to do and are usually perfect for coming, chatting, etc.
Just a few ideas. Remember to take care of yourself. You can't help anyone if you fall apart, as I have been told a million times. :)
Cyber-hug from me!
Daisy
Posted by Jai Narayan on March 8, 2004, at 21:14:35
In reply to Re: My family is driving me crazy., posted by DaisyM on March 8, 2004, at 20:54:35
Oh Dinah, how are you coping with all of this? It seems over the top. Your brother going so far away...and in danger. Your mother losing part of her foot, her foot!
Your dad being needy and vicious....
Plus your work being demanding...plus you have a family that wants you and needs you....how are you coping with all of these demands?
Do you get massages? or go to a hot tub? or eat chocolate? You are going to need all the support you can get.
What can we do to help?
I know we are limited but what could/would you want from us?
You got it if we can deliver it.
We love you and are there for you in any way.
Posted by Racer on March 8, 2004, at 21:18:59
In reply to Re: My family is driving me crazy., posted by DaisyM on March 8, 2004, at 20:54:35
I think DaisyM's idea is GREAT -- I was going to suggest something similar, but the idea of asking your father, as a favor, to accept the services of someone who needs to 'help' someone -- just great. If you can't work something like that out, check your local community college and see if they have a work/study program that might have someone to 'babysit' and tell your father that it's a secret plan to help someone get through college without charity. Maybe that'll help him get past the fear of being unable to take care of himself.
It sounds to me as if he's worried, and doesn't know how to acknowledge it. It also sounds as if you already know that :-D What a wonderful daughter you must be! (And it is really hard on a family to have all these things come down on you at once. And they always seem to, have you noticed?)
Best good luck to you. My husband is a type I diabetic, too, and it's so hard. Everything that you take for granted most of the time is suddenly more trouble than you thought it could be. Car trips, where we suddenly have to stop at a motel because he's crashing; eating out, which is hard enough because I'm a picky eater, require a very careful check of the menu; even dinner at home, since he often has to schedule meals around his blood sugar readings. And the idea of foot wounds, neuropathy, gastroparesis, etc! Scary stuff. I'm sending my best wishes to you and your family, along with a few prayers for you all.
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on March 8, 2004, at 21:46:20
In reply to Re: My family is driving me crazy., posted by Jai Narayan on March 8, 2004, at 21:14:35
Dinah, what a frustrating situation! I feel like you should just go ahead and hire the sitter and give him no choice in the matter. It might just work out.
Wish I could help somehow. O well, I'm thinking about you..
Posted by Dinah on March 8, 2004, at 22:00:41
In reply to Re: My family is driving me crazy., posted by Racer on March 8, 2004, at 21:18:59
Thanks everyone. Those are all excellent, reasonable suggestions. Unfortunately my father is not a reasonable man. It leads to some funny stories from childhood, but it makes for difficulties now.
Like, he went through cycles of saying he was never going to cook again, and got rid of all the food in the house, and we were going to only eat out. (My mother didn't cook much. I did a lot of it once I was old enough.) Then he'd decide that we were never going to eat out and stock up on tons of food. Or he'd decide he was going to eat nothing but canned peaches.
He doesn't like being dependent, he's ashamed of his wheelchair and doesn't like to have anyone over, and he detests strangers - especially in his house. He's got some reason for that because my mother has hoarding OCD, and he's ashamed. The people who knew him best, and who I could probably convince to drop by unexpectedly so that he would be unable to turn them away, are my bosses. And they're as busy as I am right now, and I don't think they can do it. I do think I'll give my cousin a call. My dad likes her and probably will let her in. He might let her take him out to dinner a few times or visit him. I'll stop by once a day, and maybe my family can take him out a few times.
And just possibly when my mother's gone he'll realize all she does for him and come to his senses about getting someone in to help. He swears up and down that all she does is lie in bed and does nothing to help him and that he'll be just as well off without her.
My mom's church offered to bring him food while she was in the hospital. I'm pretty sure mine would too. But his taste in food is so odd that my mother declined, and I think she's probably right. Sigh.
I'll make time to talk to him a few times on the phone each day. And the neighbors have offered to check in on him from time to time when they heard that my mother was going to be away. Which was awfully nice of them considering that my mother has a running feud going with most of them. Sigh.
And fortunately, he's not completely bound to the chair. He can stand, get in and out of it, and even walk with a walker for short stretches. In a lot of ways he does take care of himself now - cooks, is able to get dressed and go to the bathroom, and take baths - I think. (Hmmm.. I'll have to check on the bath part.)
I'm staying positive about the whole thing. Or as positive as I can be. These things sometimes work out better than I think. And if not, I'll deal with it then.
On the bright side, I'm dogsitting my mother's old sweetheart of a dog. I need to hunt her down from wherever she's hiding from mine. I'm going to let her sleep with Harry and me (and my husband of course) the way she used to years ago before I married.
Posted by Dinah on March 8, 2004, at 22:01:25
In reply to Re: My family is driving me crazy. » Racer, posted by Dinah on March 8, 2004, at 22:00:41
Dratted button.
Posted by Dinah on March 9, 2004, at 1:05:40
In reply to Re: My family is driving me crazy. » Racer, posted by Dinah on March 8, 2004, at 22:00:41
The clever little minx found her way to the doggie bed in the master bath. Literally the farthest corner of the house. :)
And Harry doesn't hate her!
Posted by fallsfall on March 9, 2004, at 7:14:19
In reply to Re: My family is driving me crazy., posted by Dinah on March 9, 2004, at 1:05:40
(((((Dinah)))))
Your parents are very lucky to have you for a daughter.
Posted by All Done on March 9, 2004, at 9:04:02
In reply to Re: My family is driving me crazy. » Racer, posted by Dinah on March 8, 2004, at 22:00:41
Dinah,
After my dad passed away, my mom became extremely dependent on me. After talking a great deal about this in therapy, I've taken a step back. Actually, quite a few steps back. And you know what? She's taking care of herself, now. And it hasn't destroyed me, her, or our relationship. Every situation and family is different, but I'm hoping the same can happen for you and your dad. It sounds like you're being honest about how much you can handle and that's the first step. Good for you!
And, of course, we're here if it gets to be too much.
Take care,
All Done
Posted by All Done on March 9, 2004, at 9:05:42
In reply to Re: My family is driving me crazy. » Dinah, posted by fallsfall on March 9, 2004, at 7:14:19
> (((((Dinah)))))
>
> Your parents are very lucky to have you for a daughter.Good one, falls! I completely agree!
Posted by Racer on March 9, 2004, at 23:58:44
In reply to Re: My family is driving me crazy. » Racer, posted by Dinah on March 8, 2004, at 22:00:41
Posted by gardenergirl on March 10, 2004, at 0:45:06
In reply to Re: My family is driving me crazy- falls and Dinah, posted by All Done on March 9, 2004, at 9:05:42
Dinah,
I know this is really difficult. I have worked with older adults in nursing homes and rehab centers. The issues about losing independence and what will the family do are super hard to deal with. I admire you for what you are doing.That said, I admire you more for setting clear boundaries. That is so important for both you and your immediate family and for you parents. It's really hard for children of older parents to do this, as there is often guilt and other strong emotions competing with the reasons for decisions. I'm glad that your T and your husband support you on this. Applause for you, Dinah.
I also feel for you because like others, my husband has type I diabetes. He was a late onset, at 30 years old. I always said he was the healthiest person I know, and in many ways I still say that. But considering he maintains super tight control of his blood sugars and he still has had some loss of sensation in his foot in less than 6 years, it's very scary. I'll keep you and your family in my prayers.
Take care,
gg
Posted by Karen_kay on March 10, 2004, at 6:38:30
In reply to My family is driving me crazy., posted by Dinah on March 8, 2004, at 17:34:19
Dinah, I can't say anything that hasn't already been said. Except perhaps you could take a vacation from everything and higher someone to help with your father in your abscence? Ok, so the vacation won't work... But some people are stubborn because they are scared. just giving him a phone call every day to check up on him may help. And the suggestion already stated, try to see if you can get someone in there to help him, whether he likes it or not.
And as for you young lady, you take care of yourself in the process. (((Dinah))) Keep close tabs on Big, just in case... Take care of you, ok?
Posted by Dinah on March 10, 2004, at 8:09:30
In reply to Just remember to take care of yourself (nm) » Dinah, posted by Racer on March 9, 2004, at 23:58:44
I wish I thought the boundaries were going to work. I came home yesterday and ate myself into sugar sleep, then was awoken this morning by a call from my mom.
Don't know what I'm going to do.
Posted by Karen_kay on March 10, 2004, at 8:23:06
In reply to Re: Just remember to take care of yourself, posted by Dinah on March 10, 2004, at 8:09:30
Dinah,
First of all, sugar isn't good for you and you know it... Why not try distracting yourself with something else. Or if that fails, take your (Risperdal is it??).... Listen, you need to be around for yorself... First and foremost. If your mom calls and you can't handle talking to her, then don't until you are ready. That's not being selfish. That's taking care of you! And you are just as important as everyone else in this world... Actually, I'd say you are as important as I am, and that's saying a lot....
Posted by Dinah on March 10, 2004, at 8:44:25
In reply to Re: Just remember to take care of yourself » Dinah, posted by Karen_kay on March 10, 2004, at 8:23:06
I'm positive I told you this already, or posted it maybe, so forgive the repetition. But it just hit me that this is going to be bigger than I thought. My mother always comes home from these sugeries to a wheelchair. She's forgotten that, but I haven't. And there are whole areas of the house, necessary areas, that you can't get to in a wheelchair because of the newspaper and stuff stacked everywhere with only narrow paths between.
Only the areas my dad usually travels are accessible. Plus, they really need a maid. The place isn't fit for my mother's foot to come home to. But my dad won't let anyone in because of the hoarding.
Then of course, someone is going to have to run errands for them etc. until my mom's foot heals.
I'm just not the caretaking sort. Not without klonopin and lots of white bread and pasta, peanut butter and pudding. I feel guilty about it, but there it is.
It's amazing how small doses of my family have such a huge effect on me.
I know there are tons of sensible rational solutions, but faced with my parents I just can't insist on them.
Harry and I want to run away.
But I'd better go get dressed and go to work. I'm another five hours behind now.
I'm just not sure I'm going to make it through this ok, you know? And I think that's so stupid of me. They're just parents. They took care of me growing up. I keep trying and trying not to think about it too much. Because really, is it so awful?
Posted by fallsfall on March 10, 2004, at 9:25:44
In reply to Re: Just remember to take care of yourself » Karen_kay, posted by Dinah on March 10, 2004, at 8:44:25
I can relate to the hoarding. My dad has stacks of old magazines everywhere. My mother couldn't cook Thanksgiving dinner at her house because he wouldn't clean his junk off the table.
Maybe this would be an "opportunity" in the hoarding department. Do they have a room that isn't used? Could someone (preferably not you!) get some packing boxes and carefully put the stacks that are in the way into boxes. Label them carefully. And stack them in the unused room? This way you aren't throwing them out, but you are getting them out of the way.
One trick I used to use when I was working was my "trash pile". Instead of throwing papers away in the wastebasket (Oh, no!! I might need it sometime again!!!), I stacked them on a shelf in my bookcase. And I DID go back to that stack on a regular basis and retrieve stuff... But when the stack was so tall that I couldn't put anything else on it, then I would throw away the BOTTOM HALF. I figured that if it had remained in the pile for long enough to get to the bottom half, that I really wasn't likely to need it.
Maybe you would need to save the top 1/4 (or whatever) of the piles in a more accessible place, in case they wanted to get at that stuff. Could you sell them on the box idea by pointing out that it will PROTECT the stuff?
No, I haven't done this with my parents. My sister had a business for a while where she was an "organizer". She set up office procedures, but also worked with individuals on their home "stuff". I know that she has been trying to work with my dad. Their house is big enough so that you can still move around, so it doesn't seem to be a necessity for my dad.
Posted by Dinah on March 10, 2004, at 9:45:56
In reply to Re: Just remember to take care of yourself » Dinah, posted by fallsfall on March 10, 2004, at 9:25:44
lol. I'm afraid there are no unused rooms. My mother is sleeping in my old room, and there's just the bed (and stuff is actually piled on the bed too) and a narrow pathway around it. And the hygiene is awful. (I hope the dept of health isn't reading this.) She's got three little dogs in there and doesn't clean up very well. As I drove her to the hospital the scent of her room clung to her feet. My brother lives with them when he's in town and has to sleep on the den sofa because his room is inaccessible. My father's room and bath is ok, because he needs to move around. Except for the closet which is piled high. The front half of the den is ok. My dad can go there. The back half has stacks of stuff, bookshelves, and a christmas tree from three or four years ago. To let their big dog out you have to get to that part, and the stacks of newspapers have blocked off wheelchair access. The hall to my mother's and brother's room is half filled with newspaper stacks, leaving only the other half to walk through. Don't even ask me about that bathroom. I make sure everyone in the house goes potty before visiting because I'd rather use the gas station bathroom. The utility room has only space in front of washer and dryer. Most of the kitchen is ok. The living dining room is stacked floor to ceiling so that the doors open only with difficulty, and you can only look across the sea of stuff, not actually wade into it.
It's gotten so much worse since I've lived there. And I lived there for thirty years. I don't know how I stood it. There are roaches everywhere, and I'm pretty sure there are mice in the shut off rooms. I try not to let my son eat anything that comes from there.
I hate to say it, but my parents disgust me. I hate that about myself. I love them, I guess, although I emotionally divorced my mom for self preservation. I know the enormous debt of gratitude I owe them. But it's soooo hard to be around them.
It's not just the house. My mom is a right wing conspiracy theorist and a world class drama queen. It's hard to get a straight story from her. My dad yells constantly and threatens to kill everybody (but doesn't have a gun, so don't worry.) He is constantly telling my brother and mother how totally useless they are and how much he hates them. By contrast I'm treated well by him.
I have this picture of me in a few weeks, with the men from the hospital coming to take me away, and me on the floor blithering "Don't answer the phone! Don't answer the phone! They'll get you!"
I don't take pressure very well still, obviously. I guess my ego strength is still pretty low. Wonder if there's a DSM IV diagnosis for that.
Posted by fallsfall on March 10, 2004, at 10:07:35
In reply to Re: Just remember to take care of yourself » fallsfall, posted by Dinah on March 10, 2004, at 9:45:56
I wonder how common this problem is... There was a woman in one of my therapy groups who was trying to address her hoarding problem - her house sounded like it looked a lot like your parents'. My parents have a pretty big house, but given time, my dad will get there, too.
It is pretty scary from a health standpoint to see the "conditions" some people live in. You have to let them live their own lives and make their own decisions, but at some point...
I'll ask my sister if she has any good ideas for you.
Take a couple of deep breaths, Dinah. And keep reminding them of your boundaries (You can go over to see your dad, but only once a day. You can arrange for others to help.) Can your mother figure out what to do with the clutter? She is the one who will be effected by it. Will she feel well enough to think about it while she is in the hospital? Remind her that she won't be able to get to her bed. Which parent (or, heaven forbid, is it both?) is the hoarder?
Schedule (and limit) "parents" time in your day - when you go to see your dad, and when you will "worry" about them, and make phonecalls and run errands etc. Bury it during the rest of your day. I don't know, would that work?
With compassion,
Falls
Posted by fallsfall on March 10, 2004, at 10:25:27
In reply to Re: Just remember to take care of yourself » fallsfall, posted by Dinah on March 10, 2004, at 9:45:56
If they are able financially, you could rent a storage bin and put the stuff in there. When they haven't needed it for 5 years, then maybe your mom would let it go.
They keep newspapers on microfiche - could you at throw out (or box up) the newspapers? (This wouldn't sway my dad, he believes that HIS copies of PC Week from 8 years ago are "valuable") Maybe if the newspapers were gone the rest of the stuff would be managable in volume. Hmmm - the group member wanted to go through all her old newpapers and clip things out... Still... might be worth asking...
Posted by fallsfall on March 10, 2004, at 14:34:48
In reply to Re: Just remember to take care of yourself » fallsfall, posted by Dinah on March 10, 2004, at 9:45:56
Dinah,
This is my sister's response - sorry, it seems that her magic wand is broken, too:
Organizers can be found at www.napo.net. There are lots of really good people out there to help.
But, you know the answer to this. You can't make someone else change. Eventually the situation may become unbearable and they decide to, and even then it's difficult. Or, it becomes a safety/health issue and legal steps are taken, which can damage relationships.
Framing it in terms of what your friend needs is better than trying to tell the parents what would be best for them (no matter how true it is). Your friend can decide on her boundaries and stick to them, with support from you and others that she's entitled to do that.
We aren't far away from this ourselves, as I'm sure you're aware.
The 81-yr-old man I drive to church had his license revoked by the police chief, and he's mad at him. Certainly his daughter, a state cop, asked the chief to do it. Unfortunately, it's not so simple in matters of household clutter. There is no cop to pull someone's license to subscribe to the newspaper.
Diagramming this like a computer program might help. Break it down into a series of binary decisions (for your friend, not the parents). If she can be confident about each binary choice, she'll have a map to follow, and it may give her the courage she will need if she gets to the point where she really does have to call the health department (or it might be easier to call the fire department, if they are blocking their egresses).
Posted by All Done on March 10, 2004, at 14:50:33
In reply to Re: Just remember to take care of yourself » Karen_kay, posted by Dinah on March 10, 2004, at 8:44:25
> It's amazing how small doses of my family have such a huge effect on me.
(((((Dinah))))),My heart is just aching for you.
Just the other day I burst into tears because I'm planning a family dinner for next week where I'll see my mom yet she wanted to know if she could see me this week as well and perhaps over the weekend. (Give her an inch and she takes a road trip.) I told her I was busy and then cried on my husband's shoulder about it.
I struggle every day between not wanting my mom to be so dependent on me and loving her. I struggle a lot between being so mad at her I could cry and loving her. I struggle sometimes between thinking I hate her and loving her.
The boundaries I was forced to put in place six months ago have been a godsend for me. Now, I am the one keeping them in place. There are times like the other day when it's difficult, but in the end, I have to to protect my mental health.
I wish I had some practical advice for you. Here's a little one - can you turn off the ringers on your phones during the times you haven't, as I think falls suggested, allocated to family stuff?
Give Harry a big hug for me. He's such a good boy getting along with your mom's dog!
Take care,
All Done
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