![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by kara lynne on May 30, 2003, at 13:00:18
Hi everyone,
I'm feeling disconnected and really lonely. Lately all I want to do is sleep.Things are not going well with my boyfriend and after my big test (in a few weeks) I'll be back on the apt. hunt. Nonetheless I'm feeling guilty for avoiding accompanying him to some functions. It's a big weekend for him, with lots of business contacts, dinners and parties. I do have to study, but I'll have a hard time getting out of everything. My boyfriend doesn't pay any attention to the fact that things have deteriorated between us, and goes on like nothing is wrong. (Part of the problem in our relationship is that he funnels 99.9% of his energy and focus into his work.) I find it hard enough to go to these events under the best of circumstances, but painful to do them like this.
Still, avoiding them l feel like a phobic loser. I wish I could put on a dress and feel good enough to go hobnob with the beautiful people. They aren't bad people, they're probably just happy, and therfore quite foreign to me. On the other hand I have nothing to contribute, nothing real is talked about, and my jaw starts to tremble trying to maintain that manic grin all evening. I don't think I've ever left one of those events feeling better about myself for having gone.
I know there are times to push it, but right now I just can't. Any day soon my boyfriend and I will have "the conversation" where we acknowledge that it's not working out between us. Meanwhile I hate looking at myself through his eyes, where I know I'm being seen as a person who can't carry on in his environment. It feels terrible.
I know self-esteem is an inside deal, but isn't there something to feeling better about yourself when you're with someone you love? Or at the very least, not feeling worse about yourself? Well all my tragic flaws seem to be magnified with him. And although he's no peach himself in many ways, I'm sure I'll be the one counting my imperfections to sleep when we split up.
I had a gruesome dream last night. I dreamt I was watching my old boyfriend and his wife having sex at a swinger party! I just stood there, looking into first his eyes, then hers, then back at his. Then I saw them with their two children, just living life, having fun, having sex, having children. How tormenting can a dream be? How unkind can one's subconscious be? Or else how bad is this Celexa (the nightmares have started since I began taking it a few weeks ago).
I don't know what I'm asking for. I feel disconnected here as well. I hope someone responds so I don't feel too stupid. Thank you.
Posted by zenhussy on May 30, 2003, at 13:15:41
In reply to Lips moving, nothing coming out..., posted by kara lynne on May 30, 2003, at 13:00:18
kara lynne,
I'm tired and need to go shower and get moving on my day but wanted to let you know that nothing you posted was stupid.
It was a very well written post and sounds like you are heading for that difficult conversation with the partner. My heart and prayers for that to turn out as it needs to.
If, and this is only if, you do end up not together just post away here about the counting your imperfections as you drift off to sleep. I guarantee you that people here will help you to recognize that it isn't you and there is hope.
I'm sorry this is where things are at. Seems like a lot of split ups lately on this board and with the people in my non cyberlife. Wonder what the planets are up to with all this discord? Any astrologers out there?
Sleeping is a coping mechanism and sometimes a good one. Don't be too hard on yourself right now with all that is going on. Let your doc know about the vivid dreaming on your meds and whether or not it will subside with time because I don't think I could stand dreams like that for weeks on end. So sorry the subconscious whammied you with that dream.
Like you I'm not sure what I'm offering up since you're not sure what you're asking for but at least you reached out and that is a very good first step in helping yourself.
Take care,
zenhussy
Posted by kalyb on May 30, 2003, at 13:52:02
In reply to Re: Lips moving, nothing coming out... » kara lynne, posted by zenhussy on May 30, 2003, at 13:15:41
zenhussy wrote:
> Sleeping is a coping mechanism and sometimes a good one. Don't be too hard on yourself right now with all that is going on. Let your doc know about the vivid dreaming on your meds and whether or not it will subside with time because I don't think I could stand dreams like that for weeks on end. So sorry the subconscious whammied you with that dream.Everything else zenhussy wrote, I echo too!!
And for the above part, DO see your doc. I've weathered three relationship breakups in the last 20 months..... (don't ask.... I feel a post about all of that coming on soon....) and one thing I get is dreams like that.
After the first breakup I had a horrible, horrible dream where the ex bf was actually in bed with me having sex with me, I could feel his weight on me and everything, then I was transported to a scene watching him have sex with a new partner, watching him going up-down up-down and grinning at me as he told me her name!
Sleep is a coping mechanism for me too but it was denied me because I'd get dreams like that every time I slept... so you can imagine, after two weeks of this I was climbing the walls, an alcoholic wreck (thought it might help but it didn't!!) and eventually BEGGED my doctor for something to stop the dreams. I was given Imipramine for the depression and Zopiclone for occasional use if I had trouble sleeping and the AD stopped the dreams COLD.
Until the 2nd breakup anyway, and by that time I think the imipramine had pooped out on me (didn't know that term then) because I got dreams again and was in biblical floods of tears 24/7 until I stopped taking it. (Never thought an AD could *do* that to someone...!)
Anyway sweetie, please do see your doc, and know that people here are happy to read anything you want to write anytime.... I really do sympathise, having been there myself.... hugs :))
Kalyb xx
Posted by Greg A. on May 30, 2003, at 18:30:41
In reply to Lips moving, nothing coming out..., posted by kara lynne on May 30, 2003, at 13:00:18
kara lynne
you may feel there is nothing to your writings but I find a great deal of insight in them.
“They aren't bad people, they're probably just happy, and therefore quite foreign to me. On the other hand I have nothing to contribute, nothing real is talked about”
Wow! You have captured my feelings exactly. Even though I am feeling better after months of . . . well you know . . . the opposite, I still have trouble with 'normal' people. They don’t know where I have been and I don’t know their world any more.
I have little to say to comfort you except that you are very wise.Greg A.
Posted by whiterabbit on May 31, 2003, at 1:07:30
In reply to Lips moving, nothing coming out..., posted by kara lynne on May 30, 2003, at 13:00:18
Your questions/restlessness/dissatisfaction are healthy and right. They aren't an indication of any failing on your part, only that you are a square peg wondering if you wish to conform enough to fit into this round hole, or the situation you're faced with.
My advice to you is this: run away. If you do decide to "settle" by telling yourself - I'll make this work, things will work out, he'll change or I'll change...it's not right, it's just not meant to be. Cut your losses this minute while you are still young.
At this point in my tormented life, I feel as if I've been sleeping with the enemy for the last 20 years. I tried very hard to please my husband, and I believe he honestly doesn't understand that.
I was always screwing it up, I could never get anything right. Not only didn't he appreciate the time or effort or thought or money devoted to a gesture or gift, he would complain about it and make fun of me.He would never wear his wedding ring. He would go out with his friends and come home when he felt like it, midnight or dawn. If I asked him not to do something, he would do it twice as much just to show me who was in charge.
I always thought it was me, there was something wrong with me and I needed to try harder.
For the first time in our 20 years together, I'm sick and jobless and broke. So now he can't stand me, he wants a divorce. I've made his life hell and he wants out, he "deserves a chance to be happy."
You do the math.
-Gracie
Posted by shar on May 31, 2003, at 20:53:55
In reply to Don't be me, posted by whiterabbit on May 31, 2003, at 1:07:30
well, the album THE WALL by pink floyd is my all time favorite. On there is a song called comfortably numb, which on the album (which is more like an opera vs. a series of different, unrelated songs) is a result of his insanity combined with his drug use/abuse and raising up.
So, anyway, this song, in the chorus, says...
'your lips move, but I can't hear what you're saying'
and I love it so much because it puts me in mind of how my own personal sanity/past/present/ plus mood disorder can skew my world. How some big good thing gets swallowed up by the everyday bad things. Or, how some 'normals' simply, no matter what, can't seem to relate to any mood save their own. I told my niece recently, telling a depressed person to cheer up is like telling someone with the flu to stop feeling achy, just feel better.
Anyhow, all this started because of lips moving and that's my story and I'm stickin to it. And, I didn't read all the other posts because I'm on the run, just a quick visit, and y'all are stuck with my ramblings. You all deserve better, but there it is.
Shar
Posted by kara lynne on May 31, 2003, at 21:53:33
In reply to Re: Lips moving, nothing coming out... » kara lynne, posted by Greg A. on May 30, 2003, at 18:30:41
Hi Greg,
I just wanted to say how nice it was to hear from you--it's good to hear from a man who can relate. Just a few words from kind people can make a world of difference.I'd like to know more about your story if you ever feel like sharing. Thanks again,
Kara
Posted by kara lynne on May 31, 2003, at 22:08:24
In reply to Don't be me, posted by whiterabbit on May 31, 2003, at 1:07:30
Hi dear Gracie,
I'm so glad to hear from you. You are certainly strong in the face of all you're going through. Do I remember you posting that you are no longer depressed or did I hallucinate that?I have already wasted so much time in my life in relationships that don't work. I don't seem to learn my lessons quickly. I know it's a downward spiral to think of time as being wasted, but that's the depressive trap...
I'm currently obsessed with the old boyfriend I dreamt about, thinking I should have just married *that* abusive alcoholic. I really believe I will never find happiness in a relationship. I had a devastating feeling the other day; I wondered if this sadness I've felt almost since I can remember being alive, was the knowing that I would never find love in this lifetime.
On that happy note I will thank you for your post and end by saying that if anyone "deserves a chance to be happy" it is you.
P.S. Will you write my personal ad, or can I just plaguerize yours?
Posted by kara lynne on May 31, 2003, at 22:24:16
In reply to Re: Lips moving, nothing coming out..., posted by kalyb on May 30, 2003, at 13:52:02
Thanks for responding, it really means a lot to me right now. And thank you also for telling me about your dream--I have been absolutely haunted by mine. I don't know why I keep revolving back to this old relationship in my mind--it wasn't a good one. But somehow I am obsessed anew, how charming.
How utterly self destructive is it to mull around in my mind day and night that he is now married with a perfect little boy, and a brand new baby girl--in the right order and everything. Just like we were going to do. And instead I am unmarried, insufficiently medicated and barren (sorry Gabbix). And this is what I spend my days thinking about. No wonder I want to sleep! But now my demons are chasing me there too.
When I was a little girl I had so many nightmares that I made my parents come in before I went to sleep every night and say, "No dreams at all"...instead of the requisite "Sweet dreams". I was so terrified of dreaming. Eventually I started to become aware of when I was having a nightmare and be able to wake myself up.
Can't do that anymore, but I'll definitely report it to the doctor the next time I see him. Thanks again Kaly, and for letting me ramble.
Posted by kara lynne on May 31, 2003, at 22:42:47
In reply to Re: Lips moving, nothing coming out... » kara lynne, posted by zenhussy on May 30, 2003, at 13:15:41
For being tired and posting to me anyway. I wrote to you on your insomniac thread, but I wanted to say thanks here for your thoughts and prayers. I can't say how much those mean to me right now.
I started out wanting assurance that it was ok not to go to these events with my boyfriend this weekend. Then I wanted to prove to myself that I could go and get through them alright. I'm still not sure which choice would involve less self-hatred.
I've given up on going, especially when it looks like we're not going to last much longer together.
But I will take you up on that offer of hope...
Thanks,
Kara Lynne
Posted by zenhussy on June 1, 2003, at 0:35:10
In reply to Thank you zenhussy., posted by kara lynne on May 31, 2003, at 22:42:47
and that's the truth kara lynne. If I didn't somehow keep hope through this horrible struggle I face I wouldn't be here.
So hope truly does spring eternal. I'm not pollyanna by a longshot. Think 180 and cynical and that's me but I do believe in hope.
Here's hoping sweetie.
ZH
Posted by lostsailor on June 1, 2003, at 8:44:51
In reply to hope springs eternal...if not I wouldn't be alive » kara lynne, posted by zenhussy on June 1, 2003, at 0:35:10
I am sorry for what has been going on and your..???. You have been putting so much work into this, though, and not you don't seem to reap any rewards. You, we, probably him as well know that. The main thing is that he is the only one that really loses in the long run.
You are a great cyber pal to many. You may not feel perfect to those around you at all times, but most of us don't. If all in the world were really honest, I think most in general, would have to admit that.
((((kara))))
~tony
oh, and Aurora
Posted by kalyb on June 1, 2003, at 17:41:40
In reply to Re: Don't be me, posted by kara lynne on May 31, 2003, at 22:08:24
Kara Lynne wrote:
" I have already wasted so much time in my life in relationships that don't work. I don't seem to learn my lessons quickly. I know it's a downward spiral to think of time as being wasted, but that's the depressive trap..."I'm currently obsessed with the old boyfriend I dreamt about, thinking I should have just married *that* abusive alcoholic. I really believe I will never find happiness in a relationship. I had a devastating feeling the other day; I wondered if this sadness I've felt almost since I can remember being alive, was the knowing that I would never find love in this lifetime."
I hear you - I hear you.... I feel for you.... this is how I feel, too... and is one of the root causes of my depression. I'm 40, still single, never had a long-term relationship, no children... and the only reason I've not had kids is because I never had a relationship. And now it's probably too late - the odds are that it won't happen before I hit the menopause. It hurts, it hurts so very much.
When I was a teenager, for some reason (I don't know why) I remember my mother saying to me: "You'll never have a husband." and "No man will ever want you." How desperately I wanted, and still want, her to be wrong. She has no memory of ever saying that to me, but it'll stay with me my whole life.
If I had a crystal ball, and could find out right now that I'll never have a partner, then I don't want to live any longer. Sometimes the only motivation I feel for carrying on is that I might meet someone tomorrow.
I'm sorry if this is bringing you down, but it touched a very sensitive part of me. I don't often meet others who feel the same way. There aren't many people out there like me - 40, no home of my own, unmarried, childless, useless, pointless. A couple of years ago, like you, I met someone and although I didn't trust it at first, eventually believed that I was, finally, going to get married and have kids. But it fell apart.
Since then, my younger sister got married unexpectedly last year; my friend/landlady just had a baby, and now two of her/my mutual friends/acquaintances are pregnant. I don't know how much more pain I can take, or how much more I need events to convince me I'm just totally abnormal and life isn't going to deliver what I think I deserve. Do I not deserve it? Is that why?
My latest relationship lasted 3 months... with a wonderful, unexpected guy.... he was just about everything I could have wished for in a partner and my life looked so different, so rosy; he wanted to give me a life I could never have got by myself. I was truly happy. I felt real, normal, at peace. My future looked amazing. And then he ended it, because he said although he tried, he couldn't love me. He said that was his fault, not mine - but it's happened to me before. How many times must it happen before I start really believing I'm unlovable? How many more failed relationships with great guys, how much more potential do I watch crashing to the ground, how much more love lost and time wasted?
My apologies once again for sad rambling; it's been coming on for a few days, and despite the Effexor I am getting tears in my eyes when I think about this last guy because I miss him as a friend, too, and he doesn't want contact.
My posting name is Kalyb, which means "lady of the woods" and I am indeed lost in the forest.
Hugs to you Kara Lynne, we will find what we want one day. It won't be tomorrow, but it's coming to us. We just need to hang on until it finds us.
Kalyb xx
Posted by kara lynne on June 1, 2003, at 20:29:23
In reply to Re: Don't be me » kara lynne, posted by kalyb on June 1, 2003, at 17:41:40
Dear lady of the woods,
I am so glad you wrote and rambled. It is indeed hard to find people who can understand this, and I am grateful to have found you.What an utterly painful experience to have gone through with your last boyfriend. The only thing I can say is that it's good it happened so fast, because in a way, my boyfriend is saying the same thing to me--only over a long and tortuous span of time. More important, I am affirming my own lack of self worth by staying in the relationship.
When I hear what your mother said to you I want to tell you how terribly wrong she was, and how very loveable you are. Then I feel like I'm looking into a mirror and realize how incapable I am of feeling that myself. I wish I could give it to you anyway.
Kaly, I am even older than you, and it just eats me up every day. I don't like to talk about a lot of this here because it does seem like many can't relate, but I'm relieved to be able to bring it up with you. Also I think deep down I'm carrying a lot of shame about it. But I think even you have a better chance than I do--at least to have children of your own. I have thought of other alternatives lately, but I have just about everything going against me, including no man who wants children, no money, and I can't see being able to get off meds even if I had the other two.
I do think this is the root of my depression also. God, I never thought I would become this woman! I just thought women like me were so sad...
And then there are stories like these: I know a woman who remarried at 45 after a horrible first marriage and no children of her own. At 46 she had a beautiful baby daughter without any extra help. I know it's rare, but it's possible.
You wrote, "There aren't many people out there like me - 40, no home of my own, unmarried, childless, useless, pointless." God, you said it, that hurts. I have written almost those very words. Even though I've gone to school to do something with my life it all seems pointless without those things. No matter what anyone says, that's how it feels.
I know I can't go on spending every waking (and sleeping) moment in this torment. Somehow we're supposed to find the strength and purpose to rally, and that is a moment to moment challenge for me.
I want to tell you again how much it helped me to hear your story. Please keep writing, it is so healing to know I'm not alone. Maybe we can help each other with something that is so hard to do by ourselves. Much love to you,
Kara
Posted by whiterabbit on June 2, 2003, at 10:05:06
In reply to Re: Don't be me » kara lynne, posted by kalyb on June 1, 2003, at 17:41:40
I never pictured myself as a 43-year-old "divorcee", but here I am. The old man is kicking me to the curb after 20 years. But I tell you what, the LAST thing I want right now is a "new love". What the hell for? I spent all those years trying to make somebody else happy and I never got it right. So now it's time for ME.
No rebound relationships, no blind dates, no prowling bars looking for some loser to mistreat me. I don't need no man to make me "complete".You guys don't either, take my word. Living single is better than selling your soul to be part of a couple. The "lonely divorcee", the "spinster" - those are stupid outdated terms.
My therapist was telling me about some of the women she sees, they come in to talk to her and they're all beat up - black eyes, broken teeth, bald spots where their hair was yanked out. She tries to help them get away but 9 times out of 10 they go back to the slimeball because they think they can't make it on their own. They allow some
worthless piece of trash to kick them around just so they can say they have a man, any man. How pathetic is that.Usually I'm not quite so militant, I've had a trying week. A friend called me and asked if I would help her paint a mural in a "nursery" - one of her co-workers is going to have a baby. (I paint murals.) She said the girl didn't have a lot of money and couldn't afford to pay me but I don't mind, as long as someone supplies paint. So then on the way out there - way WAY out there in the sticks ("Turn left at the unpaved road...") my friend gives me the whole story. This girl, who is a clerk or something in her office, has been coming in to work all red-eyed and depressed ever since she got pregnant. Seems like the baby wasn't planned and it wasn't something that the couple could really afford. To try and cheer her up, everybody in the office had pitched in for a baby-shower and got her a lot of nice stuff, and my friend had offered to paint the baby's room.
We get to this beat-up old trailer out in the middle of nowhere where a young woman, hugely pregnant, held open the screen door. The husband wasn't home, apparently he was out doing his favorite thing - fishing and drinking. I tried my best not to look horrified, but it wasn't easy.
There was one large room - livingroom/diningroom/kitchen covered with scrubby brown carpet and peeling linoleum. The small amount of furniture was all Salvation-Army rejects - a sad little sway-backed sofa, an old beat-up cabinet with a little TV, some plastic TV-trays and a tiny kitchenette set from the 60s. The "nursery" was a
small space with three walls, not even a whole room. The ceiling was sagging and a good wind would have knocked the whole place over. Around lunch-time, our hostess offered to make us some macaroni and cheese. "I'm sorry," she said, "It's all I have..."We did what we could with the baby's bedroom and left around sunset. I barely got the car door shut before I yelled at my friend, "What the f@#$!
does her husband do for a living!"
"I think he's supposed to be a cabinet-maker or something. When he's working."
"A CABINET-maker? With all that rickety beat-up crap they're using for furniture!"
"Well, that's what she says..."
"WHEN he's working, you say."
"Well, apparently he can't keep a job. I knew it was pretty bad, sometimes she calls in sick when she doesn't have enough gas to get to work."
"But he can afford to go drinking and fishing, what did she say? Three times a week?"
"Which probably means five times a week."I was pretty angry, although I didn't know who to be angry at. Not that I had been a whole lot better off myself when I was a young and pregnant single mother...I still remember one week when I didn't have a lot more to eat than a box of Bisquik, so it was pancakes for breakfast and biscuits for dinner. I hate Bisquik to this day.
BUT I had gotten myself into that situation, I was working and I wasn't supporting no man, especially one who drank up all the money. No way.By now you're saying alright Gracie, what's the point? I don't know, I have ADD. (That's my new excuse for everything.) But if I had a point, it would be - there are worse things than being
man-less and child-less, a LOT worse things. That poor little pregnant girl in the trailer, she needs to learn that. Her future looks pretty bleak from where I stand, and her baby's life isn't going to be much better.Let's hear it for being single! Wooo-hoooo!
-Gracie
Posted by kara lynne on June 2, 2003, at 13:48:24
In reply to Girls, girls...., posted by whiterabbit on June 2, 2003, at 10:05:06
Yikes, Gracie. You sure know how to create a visual, you must be a great artist!
Well thank you for the potent little reminder that things are not always better nine months pregnant in a beat up trailor with a drunken husband. Granted, that wasn't exactly my dream, but you do raise a point.
Do you think it's easier to let go of those things (not the above) because you've had them though? Not to make a terminal case for myself, believe me I'd love to feel better about my circumstances. Just one morning I would love to wake up and think, "Everything is OK".
Well keep those cards and letters coming in anyway--I could use the reinforcement. Thanks.
Kara
Posted by kalyb on June 2, 2003, at 14:06:22
In reply to Girls, girls...., posted by whiterabbit on June 2, 2003, at 10:05:06
Well Gracie,
thank you for a long and interesting post, giving a different perspective. I think you are absolutely right, and I know there are many women who feel the same as you. I have met many of them myself, and also men who feel the same way too.
I think I must say though, that women like myself (and kara lynne, possibly too) are a very small minority. This is why I've not met many who feel the same, and from reading kara's post, clearly she's not met many who feel that way either. There aren't many of us. There are plenty of women who have been through marriages - good and bad - and who love being single. There are single women who love being single. But I know that *I* have rarely met anyone like me, a single woman who would rather not be.
Gracie, I mean no disrespect, but being single is your choice. You have had a long relationship/marriage that ended sadly and you know what that is like. But I know I haven't, I've always been on the outside looking in. I don't feel I need to justify wanting something that is a normal part of human existence, and that a lot of people take for granted. In some ways we're opposites, because I've always been single and want to experience the other side of life, and you've been there, done that, and are looking forward to a glorious solo life.
Don't get me wrong, I have enjoyed being single. I can cope without a man. I can survive alone. I actually really enjoy some aspects of being alone, but I am willing to compromise in order to share my life with someone. The thing is, I have been single so long that I really would like to explore the intimacy, emotional closeness, partnership and companionship that a relationship would offer... a part of life that's still unknown to me. And at 40, with some people my age enjoying grandchildren (!!) I feel I've been left behind somehow! I don't think I am wrong for wanting this.
Some years ago now after (my longest) relationship to date (1 year) I felt so emotionally bruised that I decided to stop. I figured that eventually someone would come along but I wasn't going to sell myself short. I spent 3 years celibate, not even so much as a kiss. I can't say I was totally happy, but I can't say I was unhappy either... I still had times when I felt something was missing. In a way, I was avoiding it out of fear of being hurt.... which isn't the right thing, either. But I survived, and then I made my choice like you Gracie - I chose not to be single.
Unfortunately.... luck is involved a lot in that choice. If it were a job or something I'd wanted to buy, I could have trained hard or saved up and got it by now....*sigh*
This is going to sound soooooo silly but I think it will resonate with kara, too. The little things get to you, when you have been single for so long. When I hit 35, I suddenly realised that I'd never spent my birthday with "someone special" or made love on my birthday. For some reason this made me incredibly sad, to think that I'd spent all this time alive and not had even this tiniest of pleasures. Not had anyone special who cared enough to spend that day with me. Silly, eh? Worse, when I mentioned it to friends they looked at me real funny, and said they couldn't recall if they'd ever made love on their birthday or not.... But they'd all had long-term relationships at one time or another, and admitted they'd probably have remembered if they *hadn't*.... Finally I found a friend who could view it from my perspective, and she understood how sad it could make someone feel. And Valentine cards.... the last time I got one of those was when I was 19.... 21 years ago. Same as never spending Christmas with anyone special either. Oh, I know many many people out there have spent horrendous Christmases with abusive spouses and abhorrent relatives etc. But it's another thing, when you haven't had it, you miss it, however small and insignificant it seems.
Because I have been single so long I value myself enough not to take anything that's offered, to watch carefully for signs of potential abuse, not to sell myself short or sell my soul to the wrong relationship. At least I have that.
And I guess I'd like a partnership in every sense of the word. Two sets of hands can achieve more than one, and in the economy of the country where I live, there are few jobs I can get that will keep me above the breadline. But if it were a second income, and I was sharing the costs of life with a partner, not only would I feel far less pressured financially in a miserable job for little reward, but I would even be able to save, or to contribute something towards the future.
I don't mind you feeling militant Gracie, I sure would feel the same after seeing that girl in her miserable life. But take away the baby and the husband, and that's not far off the kind of live I have. If we had trailer parks in this country, I'd have been living in one for the last 20 years.... Yes I bless myself that I never ended up in that kind of relationship, and pregnant as well, but I know I'm old enough, wise enough and strong enough to avoid that.
But still.... I do get sad sometimes.... and wonder when I might get to experience the good - and bad!!! - of a relationship. I might be able to come to terms with never having kids, but it's going to be a very bad, sad and tough life never having had a relationship, either.
love and hugs to you....
Kalyb xx
Posted by kara lynne on June 2, 2003, at 14:40:57
In reply to Pink Floyd, posted by shar on May 31, 2003, at 20:53:55
Hi Shar,
I just wanted to tell you how much I enjoy reading your posts. A while back when you were under some kind of mistaken attack I wanted to say so, but my self indulgent misery prevented me from doing it. I'm sorry for that, and here is my belated sentiment.
I was in the archives once for some reason and came across a post you wrote. In it you wrote about the various ways people have of saying "my pain is more exquisite than yours". I just loved that and have wanted to tell you for some time. Not to say that my pain *isn't* more exquisite than your's, but still you put it so, well, exquisitely.So that is all. I was only peripherally into Pink Floyd, but it is still integral to a lot of my memories of that time. Maybe it puts me a little too much in mind of my own sanity or lack thereof...
Thanks again Shar.
Posted by kalyb on June 2, 2003, at 16:12:25
In reply to Kaly , posted by kara lynne on June 1, 2003, at 20:29:23
Hey kara lynne :)
Thanks enormously for responding and tolerating my rambling! I'm happy to have found someone who understands.... thanks. You're welcome to ramble in my direction any time you like, I don't know if it helps you but I feel a lot better today. It was something that had been lurking for a few days and exchanging stories with you really did help!
I think it's going to take lifetime to erase what my mother said. If she only had realised at the time how that would stay with me.... But then, she had problems of her own, and at some point when I was a child/teen (not sure when) I know she was on Valium most of the time, having suffered from depression and anxiety herself for most of her life.
This last boyfriend was quite different from others I've dated. In fact my first reaction, gut instinct, was that he was "out of my class". I know, I know, there is some feeling of unworthiness there but I was vastly different from his ex wife and ex gf. He was different to me because he was much more stable than anyone I've dated for a long time. He did make me feel safe, and I felt I could trust him.
Unfortunately there were aspects I couldn't trust, as I found out - his promises came to nothing. He says he feels too guilty anbout what he did to me, to be friends, which is a greater tragedy, since I loved him as a friend first of all... when I met him I knew I'd have to go a long way to find someone I'd like as much as a friend. It's a bit of a backwater here where I live, and there aren't many people like him, with whom I would have so much in common, never mind single and available!
Anyway that's even more rambling isn't it!! About your situation... I wonder if you would have the courage to sit down and have "that" talk with your man? If there is one thing I would have changed about the relationship I had, it would be to have taken the iniatitive and talked more to him about feelings, as we did in the first few weeks of the relationship. Instead I just went with the flow, which isn't always the right thing to do.
And you mentioned the shame.... oh yes, there is shame.... even despite the enlightened ones among us, there is still somehow shame in not being married or having children, even in today's society. I noticed that only recently. I moved out of a big city to a small town last year - in the city, when people asked my name they would always ask: "Ms, Miss or Mrs?". Since moving here, people are constantly assuming I'm a Mrs. and don't even have the courtesy to ask...
Well anyway sweetie, I'm here if you fancy another ramble, and thanks again for understanding :)) I would say, email me, but I have no idea how one might exchange email addresses securely here.
{{hugs}}
Kalyb xxxx
Posted by shar on June 2, 2003, at 18:02:00
In reply to Re: Pink Floyd/ Shar, posted by kara lynne on June 2, 2003, at 14:40:57
Thank you so much for your sentiments; sometimes it is hard to know whether one is offensive or making occasional sense with posts, so I appreciate your sharing.
And, for the record, I doubt your misery was self-indulgent; if we had a choice, I doubt that what's we'd choose. And, at any rate, I'm sure my misery is much more exquisite than yours. :))
[That last was just kidding in case someone thinks I was serious...]
Shar
Posted by shar on June 2, 2003, at 18:26:27
In reply to Girls, girls...., posted by whiterabbit on June 2, 2003, at 10:05:06
WR-G:
I couldn't agree more with your sentiments about this young, pregnant woman in a bad situation that's bound not to get better...and I bet, gets worse. Unless, of course, a miracle occurs. Your reaction is a tribute to your empathy and compassion, and your anger is completely understandable! It's a good thing the two of us weren't there together! I can see us waiting for the hubby-dearest to get home....:)
> the LAST thing I want right now is a "new love". What the hell for? I spent all those years trying to make somebody else happy and I never got it right. So now it's time for ME.
...Amen, Sister White Rabbit! After my divorce, I moved out (didn't have a choice, actually, since he had very nicely manipulated the purchase of the house and surrounding land to come out of a 'gift' from his mom, which is not community property in Texas; even tho' I made house payments...oh, but I digress), I bought a manufactured home (yes, I am trailer house trash, as they say in some parts of Texas), furnished my bedroom with a SINGLE bed, and put a SINGLE bed in the guest room. I never in my life intended to let anyone set foot in my house or heart again. But...go figure...6 years later, I'm 51, starting the best relationship of my life as the REAL me this time, and we're sleeping on the futon in the living room because it makes into a double bed. hahahaha. God (or whomever) has such a great sense of humor...
> No rebound relationships, no blind dates, no prowling bars looking for some loser to mistreat me. I don't need no man to make me "complete".
AGREED!
> You guys don't either, take my word. Living single is better than selling your soul to be part of a couple.WORD UP!
>The "lonely divorcee", the "spinster" - those are stupid outdated terms.
AMEN!!
> Usually I'm not quite so militant,
...I've always been much more militant than most people can tolerate, so it's nice to see shades of it in others at times. :)
>This girl, who is a clerk or something in her office, has been coming in to work all red-eyed and depressed ever since she got pregnant. Seems like the baby wasn't planned and it wasn't something that the couple could really afford.
....I guess discussing abortion here would start WWIII...
>I yelled at my friend, "What the f@#$!
> does her husband do for a living!"
> "I think he's supposed to be a cabinet-maker or something. When he's working."
> "A CABINET-maker? With all that rickety beat-up crap they're using for furniture!"
> "Well, that's what she says..."
> "WHEN he's working, you say."
> "Well, apparently he can't keep a job. I knew it was pretty bad, sometimes she calls in sick when she doesn't have enough gas to get to work."
> "But he can afford to go drinking and fishing, what did she say? Three times a week?"
> "Which probably means five times a week."......Totally reasonable reaction, from where I sit.
> I was pretty angry, although I didn't know who to be angry at. Not that I had been a whole lot better off myself when I was a young and pregnant........oooh, me, too, and *really* sick from being pregnant, and no food. God, the memories THAT brings back. Plus, an abusive husband. Wow. Good thing I was 18, because I sure wouldn't stand still for any of that BS now! But, you know, I do remember feeling so dependent on his salary. I knew I could feed my son (nursing) when the time came, but I couldn't feed myself at that time without his income.
> By now you're saying alright Gracie, what's the point? I don't know, I have ADD. (That's my new excuse for everything.)...I'm so happy for you having an excuse for everything! I say, use it or lose it!
>But if I had a point, it would be - there are worse things than being man-less and child-less, a LOT worse things.
....AMEN AGAIN
>That poor little pregnant girl in the trailer, she needs to learn that. Her future looks pretty bleak from where I stand, and her baby's life isn't going to be much better.
....interesting, isn't it, that folks thought a mural would make a difference (I mean as opposed to taking up a collection and giving her money to move out or something that might change her life). You know I don't mean your murals aren't beautiful...I hope you know what I mean.
Shar
Posted by Rach on June 3, 2003, at 10:15:29
In reply to Re: Girls, girls.... » whiterabbit, posted by shar on June 2, 2003, at 18:26:27
I'm jumping in half way or perhaps at the very end, so tell me where to go if I'm butting in.
I am single. I haven't had a serious relationship in over two years. As most of you know, I am quite young. But I don't see there being any man out there who I could maintain a life long relationship with. I have lived by myself and been so independent and self sufficient for so long that the idea of a man confident enough to let me be my independent self without taking it as a personal ego bash is ridiculous. I've had such awful experiences with little boys pretending to be men recently.
I agree, it is much better to be single than to be in a false and disatisfied relationship. I will not allow myself to take part in anything false - because either I or the other person will get hurt, and I don't want to have any part of that. I have enough guilt and hurt already.
However, all that being said, it doesn't mean I don't long for someone. It would be nice to cook for more than one person, to be able to turn to a warm body in the middle of the night and whisper my dreams to. Ultimately, I would like that for myself, and I think people either take relationships for granted, or too lightly and thus enter into them for the sake of a relationship rather than for the person.
Wanting it doesn't make me unhappy all the time, though. Honestly, I go through periods of being unhappy and wishing I could have that for myself. I also find it hard when my friends who are into the relationship but not the guy dump me for that honeymoon period. But mostly I am just satisfied that I am a proud, independent woman who doesn't require a man for happiness. A man is not a need, just a want. And wants are not a requirement to happiness.
Posted by whiterabbit on June 5, 2003, at 18:54:03
In reply to Re: Girls, girls...., posted by kalyb on June 2, 2003, at 14:06:22
Sorry I'm late with this...Kalyb in no way did I mean to put you on the defensive, of course you don't have to justify yourself - especially to me!
You understand that I am just a little bit resentful of being dumped after a 20-year-relationship, so of course I'm somewhat biased at this time. My post was just a "pep talk" for you and me because I'm secretly terrified of being on my own again after all these years, so I'm trying to be brave and strong. I'm not really brave and strong or I would have left myself many years ago,
I think my husband never particularly wanted to be married and he often wasn't very considerate, but I just kept hoping that it would work out. I guess it never really did.Of course he has his own side of the story, but that's neither here nor there. He's filed for divorce and it's over.
So...we'll see how I do on my own, eh?
-Gracie
This is the end of the thread.
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