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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by rskontos on April 21, 2008, at 18:20:14
Yes I think I am pretending at this point. I don't know what else to do. There are still things that bother me. He gets sleepy from a sleeping disorder or I mean he has problems sleeping and sometimes I see him getting sleepy. I change the subject and he wakes up but it really bothers me. I am now thinking maybe I am just one of those people that can't get bonded to a therapist in therapy. I did that tapping.com exercise and I know that deep down I am still really bothered by my unexplored SA issues. He and I discussed this today and he says I don't necessarily have to explore them to get better. He thinks I have more energy projecting outwards. We discussed going to once a week. I did take a personality test to see what I might be good at and he wants to discuss those results first then go down to once a week after we resolve my what I am going to do with myself issues. He thinks I am under utilized at the present.
I left therapy and my first thought was I was pretending today. And it is not the first time I have thought that.
I think that my inners are quiet now because they sense I am not going to bond closer with him. I just don't think I can anymore. I don't know.Who is for me actually telling him this? Could I tell him this.
That A) I don't think I am one for bonding to anyone including him
B) I think I am pretending
C) I am not sure what c is. LOL
Anyone with thoughts. I think I am wasting time. Although when I think of my childhood trauma, from the sa to the no love from either parents I am deeply saddened but I am not sure I can be helped with therapy. I still feel numb the minute I walk out the door. Is this dissocating? I dont know anymore.
rsk
Posted by Happyflower on April 21, 2008, at 19:10:42
In reply to I think I am pretending in T.....(triggerspossible, posted by rskontos on April 21, 2008, at 18:20:14
Hi Rk,
No, I don't think you are wasting time, to me it makes sense on what is happening. You don't feel bonded to him at the moment and of course how could you possibly work with him on such sensitive issues? You want to retreat and I think that is in fact very normal to do that for our own safety especially for the life you have gone through. Safety is huge for us. I do think it is important to talk to him about this.
I do admit I don't agree with him about "ignoring" the sa issues. I am one who feels you need to work this out to heal. Maybe that is what scared you, it is like he is almost saying he isn't willing to go to the limit with you. I think I would retreat too if I felt that way.
It is a confusing situation, but I believe honesty is the best way to go about things. ((((Rk)))
Posted by Dinah on April 21, 2008, at 19:35:57
In reply to I think I am pretending in T.....(triggerspossible, posted by rskontos on April 21, 2008, at 18:20:14
Were you able to build any on the realization you had last week about your feelings about being a wife and mother? You seemed to feel he had been helpful to you in that.
I don't think this says anything about your ability to bond to anyone. I've never really liked any of my mental health practitioners except my therapist and one other therapist and a neurologist. It's hard to be really open with someone, and it's hard to find someone who is a good personality mesh for that much intimacy.
I've found some of them helpful, and learned things from them. But I didn't really like them or feel comfortable with them.
Posted by rskontos on April 21, 2008, at 22:11:25
In reply to Re: I think I am pretending in T.....(triggersposs, posted by Happyflower on April 21, 2008, at 19:10:42
Yeah, I Happyflower I don't feel bonded and that is probably what is stopping me at the moment not the other way around and I am trying to just stop here and pretending I am ok so that I can't stop the frequency of therapy because I can't fathom going further. I don't really see myself seeing him as anything more. I can't go to the transference issues with him. I know i have trust and safety issues. I admit that. I have told him things I haven't told anyone else I will admit that but to go further would require an even bigger committement to bond closer and I don't know I can.
I sometimes think I need to go deeper but I know right now I can't do that alone, and with him I am not sure it will happen. And I speak about surface things.
Oh, yeah, Hi back at you. And congrats on the internship.
It is confusing I will just have to think about how to approach it.
thanks for your take on it.
rsk
Posted by rskontos on April 21, 2008, at 22:14:10
In reply to Re: I think I am pretending in T.....(triggersposs » rskontos, posted by Dinah on April 21, 2008, at 19:35:57
Dinah, Yes we discussed this more today He was helpful with that. He has been very helpful overall. I have gotten closer to him than most people for me that is huge. But I just am not sure I can go further. I am not sure I know how.
So what do you do if you think you have something better to work on and you think you can't go further with the current one. And if you don't really feel comfortable or like them do you not feel underneath it all it affects how you will ultimately do in therapy or can you do just as well regardless of like or comfort?
rsk
Posted by raisinb on April 21, 2008, at 22:39:21
In reply to I think I am pretending in T.....(triggerspossible, posted by rskontos on April 21, 2008, at 18:20:14
Rsk, I have a couple of thoughts.
First of all, I feel strongly that part of intensive therapy is a "chemistry" between therapist and client. That means that you can't just bond with anyone, and that just because you can't bond with this man doesn't mean you can't attach to someone else. Also, it's hard to do deep work without that chemistry.
I've seen eight or ten therapists in my life and never felt deep things for any of them (and never really felt deep things in the sessions). I always felt like we were playing some kind of game--the game where the therapist pretends to be insightful and sounds good, and I nod, trying to be the good client. The one I'm with now is the only one I've felt real with (and that's so painful it does not happen all the time).
But that is just in my experience, so take it with a grain of salt. If you have been able to be real--and helped--with him in the past, then maybe it can happen again.
I do think I'd struggle very much with a sleepy therapist. Someone who wasn't totally with me-even though it wasn't his choice--would make me close up just like you are.
Posted by rskontos on April 21, 2008, at 22:49:08
In reply to Re: I think I am pretending in T.....(triggersposs » rskontos, posted by raisinb on April 21, 2008, at 22:39:21
Yes, I thought at first we had some chemistry but now I am not so sure. I opened up because I needed to get some stuff out. I was in crisis mode. I was dissociating all over the place and was having a hard time functioning. He is a good t but he is older and that I think is troubling. I think the sleepy part is upsetting to me. Reminds me of my father and I have issues with him already. So I shut down. I have issues with my mother too, she and my dad were abusers so the sex of the t doesn't matter really. I need to find one that I connect to.
I feel this really deep sadness deep inside where the abuse feelings has settled. I mean at this point I could rise up continue on, but I am not sure if later on I would not have something happen that could cause a set back.
My neuro recommended a therapist I wonder if I should try him out. I just don't know what to do.
But I think you are right chemistry is important.
I have been helped some, but again I or parts of my feel like we have been pretending.
Sometimes I think he feels bored.
I guess I need to bring this up. huh?
rsk
Posted by seldomseen on April 22, 2008, at 7:03:42
In reply to I think I am pretending in T.....(triggerspossible, posted by rskontos on April 21, 2008, at 18:20:14
I wonder if you are actually pretending in therapy or just trying to convince yourself that you are in order to distance yourself from it.
Resistance in therapy can be very very subtle.
I gotta admit though, the sleepy therapist would totally freak me out. I simply couldn't bear it, but that's just me.
I would try to talk your T about how you feel you are pretending. Even if you are - everything has meaning in therapy.
If there is one thing I've learned from my recent experience, you've got to give your T the opportunity to help you. Just assuming he can't is not going to get you where you want to go.
Seldom.
Posted by rskontos on April 22, 2008, at 8:55:47
In reply to Re: I think I am pretending in T.....(triggerspossible » rskontos, posted by seldomseen on April 22, 2008, at 7:03:42
Seldom, you have good points. The resistance I feel is in part due to the sleepy part and in part due to a widening gaffe not a deepening bond. Partly due to the sleepiness. I can't get past it even with the explanation. We have talked about it once. I should bring it up again. He speaks about transference of bad parent to good parent but for me, how can I feel like he is a good parental figure when he is sleepy during our sessions. I wonder if he is like this with just me. And it doesn't matter if it is our 9:30 session or the 11:30 session. I am tiptoeing around him in therapy modulating my words so that he is involved and that isn't right. And if I am doing that how am I going to transfer my feelings to a good parental figure. It is not going to happen since I am doing what I did in my real family. Keep up the good front which is now what I feel I am doing in therapy. So maybe pretending is wrong, and I am actually keeping up the good front.
I have thought about sending him an email, to address this since the dialogues I have in my head go better than face to face and in an email I can formulate my words better and then send them to him. We can then discuss it face to face.
No, I am not involved in therapy as much as I should be. I am speaking about too much that is superficial at the moment and not what really bothers me. So while pretending is not a really good term I am keeping my distance with him.
And the sleepiness does freak me out. I am hurt and feel like I am boring him. I think part of me is trying to extrapolate myself from this therapy because of this component.
And frankly I am unsure what to do next. Nor do I really know where I want to go.
But thanks for your input.rsk
Posted by Dinah on April 22, 2008, at 9:06:36
In reply to Re: I think I am pretending in T.....(triggersposs » seldomseen, posted by rskontos on April 22, 2008, at 8:55:47
Do you address the sleepiness directly as it happens? My therapist tends towards sleepiness. I have some ideas why, and only some of them have to do with me. For example, he tends to be sleepier when I'm being more rational and less engaged emotionally. He denies that, but I think I can see some patterns over thirteen years! But for the most part it's because he tends not to take great care of himself, to work long hours and to be out of shape. Under those conditions, sitting in a comfortable chair in a warm office is likely to bring on sleepiness even in me.
I always address it in the moment. Instead of feeling hurt or taking it personally, I'll say "It seems that you're a bit sleepy. Would you like to stand up? Or stretch? Am I being particularly boring at the moment?"
I know it's not my responsibility to wake him up, but from a pragmatic viewpoint I can either say nothing and be upset and hurt, or I can bring the pink elephant out into the open and address it.
Posted by Dinah on April 22, 2008, at 9:09:44
In reply to Re: I think I am pretending in T.....(triggersposs » Dinah, posted by rskontos on April 21, 2008, at 22:14:10
On the other hand, if I find I really don't like a mental health professional, I don't ever remember changing my mind. "Feel", for want of a better word, is more important than any rational thought.
Posted by rskontos on April 22, 2008, at 9:26:19
In reply to Re: I think I am pretending in T.....(triggersposs » rskontos, posted by Dinah on April 22, 2008, at 9:06:36
Dinah, No i just change the topic. If I get quiet he will perk up.
Does this bother you? Has it affect the quality of therapy over the years? And does he ever stand up and stretch?
Mine says he doesn't sleep very well. That is isn't me. Am I being too petty?
rsk
Posted by Dinah on April 22, 2008, at 9:34:25
In reply to Re: I think I am pretending in T.....(triggersposs » Dinah, posted by rskontos on April 22, 2008, at 9:26:19
You aren't being petty. Of course it bothered me. I felt like I was the most boring person on earth. We changed chairs, we changed appointment times.
And the wretch would even imply that he wasn't usually like this. Sigh.
But overall he's helpful to me and I wanted to keep the relationship and keep it as positive and strong as possible. It just didn't make sense to get upset and offended about something that I could do something about. Which doesn't mean I don't let him see that I see what's going on in a nonaccusing way. That would just lead to resentment.
By bringing it out in the open, we can deal with it. And yes, he does get up and move around or stretch or even stand while we do therapy. And since he's so tall that's a bit distracting.
But I reiterate, I do this because we have a good relationship and I want to keep it strong. If biofeedback guy had done it, it would have just been one more reason to leave.
Posted by twinleaf on April 22, 2008, at 9:45:48
In reply to I think I am pretending in T.....(triggerspossible, posted by rskontos on April 21, 2008, at 18:20:14
Hi. It seems very sad to me that when your T gets sleepy, which necessarily involves a withdrawal of his attention and feelings from you, that you sometimes start worrying that it is YOU who is unable to form a bond with him. Just from knowing you here on this forum, I feel completely certain that you are able to. I don't mean, though, that you won't have many intense struggles over trusting and bonding in therapy. One could say that the process of therapy for people like us, with severe abuse issues in our backgrounds, is one of repeatedly moving a little forward towards trust and love, and then moving a little back again to make sure we are safe, with the forward movements being just a little more prominent than the backwards ones, when looked at over time.
The sleepiness is a very difficult situation. I have gotten the general impression that your present therapist has actually been very helpful in understanding you. I have also gotten the impression recently that you are at an important point of facing some extremely painful things. Your therapist may have been important in making this possible, and manoeuvers on your part to delay or avoid dealing with these things are certainly very familiar and understandable to everyone here, if indeed they are even playing a part at the moment.
I think what I would do is talk to him about the effect the sleepiness is having on you. I think this is the most pressing issue, because it involves a withdrawal of focus from you at a time when you need it every moment. I personally could not go deeply into past traumas without feeling certain that my analyst was with me in a deep emotional way, every moment.
You could also talk to him about feeling that you are "pretending" in therapy- why you feel this way, what the causes and solutions might be..just airing the whole thing. Everyone wants to feel real and genuine.
Finally, at some point while you are trying to work out these things, you could investigate the new referral. It is a bit distressing to me that your present therapist wants to cut down the frequency of sessions at a time when you seem so ready to deal with traumatic events in your past; if anything, that would at least call for maintaining your present frequency, if not increasing it.
Posted by rskontos on April 22, 2008, at 10:47:40
In reply to a sleepy T..., posted by twinleaf on April 22, 2008, at 9:45:48
Twinleaf, I think you have gotten it very right in all you said. I will clarify one point, the decrease, is my doing. In all of this, when I was expressing my self about being a point of feeling like I was on the fence to go deeper or not, he asked if I wanted more sessions. I told him last time, when he asked if I wanted more I was thinking less, now maybe I did this to see his reaction. I guess you are right, I am feeling the waters to see if I go deeper. Sometimes I feel as I am a dissappointment as a patient. I can't say why. I can't say that I don't do this just because I am retreating either. Or feel like I want to retreat. I really thought I was ready to face my demons but in doing the little I have done I scared myself. Last night or rather early this morning I had another flashback. It is really annoying that I don't recognize the people in them just that I am terrified of them. I guess I feel that he has been helpful in the general makeup of therapy yet I told him the other day I feel lonely in therapy. He asked me to explain that but I had a hard time. I still can't really explain it. He understands me but only to a point. I get animated in therapy but I have told him that is a shield and it doesn't need to be in therapy. Yet he asks questions in a way that brings that out. I am powerless sometimes to stop it. I will eventually bring the conversation back around but too much time will have lapsed and I will not get around to all I wanted to. Now the discussion will be nice and light but not pertinent to what I really wanted to discuss. Does this make sense.
I will have to think about why I feel I am pretending. I could just air that I think I am pretending to end it faster and not get to the root of the issue.
I guess when he said he would cut me back I really wanted more of a progress report from him. It is interesting to me that my inners who from time to time come out so strong with him are taking a hiatus right now. I don't feel any safer with him so I don't understand that right now.
You are right I am at a point of facing some things or keeping them buried. I am just not sure what to do.
Someone else said they preferred talking to a psychologist versus a p-doc. Now he does sometimes seem very clinical yet at other times he doesnt.
Can you hear my confusion over this. I don't think I am making as much sense as you. I am going to print everyone's responses and take them with me to discuss these issues.
But you are right. When I bring up the sleepiness I will say that is brings the attention away from me.
Thanks for your vote of confidence I can bond that goes a long way. I need to hear it from others since I can't hear myself say it.:)
I guess I have more thinking to do.
rsk
Posted by muffled on April 22, 2008, at 23:34:13
In reply to Re: a sleepy T... » twinleaf, posted by rskontos on April 22, 2008, at 10:47:40
Sorry, I not been posting much, but to me a better name for dissociative disorder would be confusion disorder.
I dunno bout you, but I am so all over at times, and sometimes I think, no DD for me, I must be dreaming or faking, or SOMEthing, but then other times I am talking and switching and it seems normal and unstoppable.
I find it all INCREDIBLY confusing.
Depending on where I'm at at anyu given moment, my emots can change SO much. Sometimes I think my T is very clever, other times alls I can see is bad, and I get all mixed up. There is a rational part that is quite clear, but its not around that much, so I wallow around all mixed up.
My T said to me that she sometimes feels bad for me, cuz I am sometimes so clear and relaxed, but then other times I am confused by so many opinions.
I am going to soon see a specific DD T, and I think, dunno, but think, that coordination and communication and agreement and nurturing, btwn parts is very important.
I think already I do much better.
I never hear you speak much of the other parts and I wonder if there is something more going on, or maybe a combination of things.
FWIW I would be VERY bothered if my T was falling asleep in session. That would upset various parts for various reasons, and then their reactions would be varied, then there is internal fighting and then I am lost. Nope, wouldn't work for me.
Mebbe your T has more to offer, but if you gonna keep stalling, then mebbe its not so good.
If you can't get past this pretty quick, then I'd look for a new T.
BTW, I somehow doubt you can't bond, the way you write on here is very kind and caring.
And yet....I am thinking of me....noone is close to me...oh sh*t....so I dunno, maybe its more not that we CAN'T bond, but we have our parameters of safety that our security systems will allow only, and mebbe over time they will be able to be more relaxed.
I proly sound like an idiot.
Take care
M
Posted by rskontos on April 23, 2008, at 15:23:31
In reply to Re: a sleepy T... » rskontos, posted by muffled on April 22, 2008, at 23:34:13
No no no muffled you never sound like an idiot. No I haven't talked about my parts because they are strangely silent all of a sudden. But the week before I went to Florida I dissociated the entire session. And today I dissociated at the dentist office. One thing I haven't discussed here is I told him the other day about a dissociative event I had and he downplayed it. Like it was something everyone would do, I just looked at him. Then he realized what he said and he said well obviously you do this to an extent most can't but what I mean is this is a situation in which most people would feel fear. And I said but to lose the whole time in the doc's office most people can't do. I had a procedure in the doc's office and even though I had a xanax before I still lost the whole thing. I just checked out and checked back. The weird thing is I could feel myself talking and couldn't stop but I don't know what I said. Weird. He I felt undermined the whole thing. And that is last time I spoke to him about dissociating. Or flashbacks. I did tell him about how my inners seem to go on vacation for the most part when I was on vacation.
Yes I too have a rational one. I like when she is around. Do you ever have the times when you feel like you pretend.
I think I might look at another one. NOt to mention this one is not on my insurance plan and the out of network expenses are killing me.
I mean it is one thing to feel like I am getting so much better but..
Well for tomorrow I plan to discuss how I feel with the sleepy an dhow i notice it happening more and asking if anything has changed or if I am just more boring. But how for me I can't get closer. I am holding back like you put it muffled.
Today I am all mixed up. somedays I feel so much clearer were we seem to work together but then other days not so much working together.
I am getting triggered more and more by my family these days.
Boy, how about that dentist. I was so triggered but somehow managed to hang in there. Yet I did check out briefly at the end when he actuall came in. I went in and out for a while. I don't actually know what he said there at the end. But that is ok, I don't really care.
'Thanks so much muffled. I am glad you going to see a DD T. I hope she helps.Yeah sometimes I want to argue with him, or say let's try and prove the DD. I wonder because I haven't don't as much with him as the first therapist in terms of switching. I don't know. I am so confused. That is why I thought I might go talk to another one before i actually switched to see if I thought that was the thing to do? :(
I am confused.
We are confused.
we are sad too.
rsk
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