![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by daisym on September 25, 2006, at 20:15:07
Most of you know that I think I have the world's best therapist. And I still think that.
But for the past few weeks, or maybe even months, I can't shake the feeling that he is pulled back and closed off from me. I'm terrified that he has this secret plan to terminate the therapy somehow. Nothing he says or does reassures me for very long.
He has admitted to having a very intense thing going on in his personal life. He only told me because my radar picked up on it and I immediately assumed that he was upset with me for something. He said he is less available than he has been in the past between sessions because of this thing but if I need him, he is still there for me. I bounced back and forth for a few weeks between being understanding and OK with this and being a brat about his unavailability. And to be clear - he didn't cut back sessions, or not return calls, or anything concrete. I just *felt* like I wasn't supposed to need him anymore.
The brat finally melted down into a sad little puddle. I asked him if he didn't want me to love him anymore -- was I too much? I wanted to know if my feelings were pushing him back or getting in the way of our work. He didn't hesitate, he looked me straight in the eye and said, "no, I don't want that. I'm not thinking that at all." But it is so hard for me to believe him.
Today was pretty hard. I was all shut down and far away. He said it didn't feel good that I didn't trust him. And that I was doing to him what I said he was doing to me -- shutting him out. He said it hurt. And then he said if this is what I needed to do to feel safe, then he would respect that. But he really wished I could talk to him about what was happening inside me, that usually I feel better when we can get it out in the open. I know that. But everything I try to say sounds stupid.
When I left I said, "I miss you." He said, "I still right here. I'll wait."
The tears finally broke through. What is wrong with me? Why can't I believe he isn't going away or wants to get rid of me? Why can't I find a way to reconnect to my safe base? I feel so lost and alone. He used to be the answer. Now he is part of the struggle.
I feel like I'm drowning in 2 feet of water and don't know how to stand up. I need some help...
Posted by orchid on September 25, 2006, at 20:28:32
In reply to I Need some help, but be gentle..., posted by daisym on September 25, 2006, at 20:15:07
I am sorry you are feeling so sad and lost. The connections to the Ts can be extremely powerful and actually I think it is beyond cognitive understanding and explanations. And I think you two have done some really deep work together and you must have developed a really profound bond with him. Any threat to that bond is bound to make you feel extremely agitated and anxious. Even if you rationally understand he is not pulling away from you, I don't think it is realistic to expect you to emotionally be able to understand that or be at peace with it.
I can understand how agitated you must be feeling. And I am sorry that you have to feel this pain.
And it is kind of a fundamental fault with this system. Ts kind of end up doing the role of nearly God to us, and they are not God and can neither be expected to be. And their shortfalls (even though unintended or when it is truly beyond their capability to help) hurts the clients. And many times it can't be helped. But I really think your T atleast gets the feeling, and understands the issues, and is good enough to stand up and help you through it. And I think you are really in safe hands, and it is as best as it could ever get for anyone.
I hope it passes.
Posted by alexandra_k on September 25, 2006, at 20:36:32
In reply to I Need some help, but be gentle..., posted by daisym on September 25, 2006, at 20:15:07
((((Daisy)))))
I'm sorry sweetie :-( I think I understand how you feel... I've felt a little like that with one of my t's too...
I've been reading about transference :-(
One of the things that struck me... I don't know if this will resonate or not... But I'll talk about it a little and you can have a think about whether it seems to fit for you... I can't remember *precisely* what was said so I guess this is my rorscarch version of it (however you spell that) but <sigh> I don't have much time <glance furtively around the room> so I'll just have to do the best I can.Attachment... Dependency. Attachment is something about feeling safe and protected and happy in the presence of another person. Just their being around. Feeling connected, or something. I guess the first person we attach to is usually a primary caregiver or something. And I guess that attachment is supposed to get internalised so that we carry that feeling around inside of us instead of literally needing anothers presence we kind of figuratively or metaphorically have that inside us. Or something. Then as we get older we attach to people. And people come and people go and stuff like that but it is meant to be okay because the first one went okay and we got to internalise that.
But sometimes that first attachment really didn't go okay. Maybe the person wasn't sensitive enough to our needs. Maybe that person wasn't very comforting when we needed them to be. Maybe that person hurt us instead of comforting. Maybe that person left when we needed them. Either left emotionally or left physically or whatever.
And when that happens... Then there can be terror. Maybe terror is too stong. Intense fears. Whatever. But fears of feeling dependency. Maybe we think that we were too needy. That our needs are too great. And if that is the case then it is not safe to demonstrate our needs because in the past we demonstrated our needs and the person hurt us. Was repulsed by us. Left us. Hurt us. Whatever. And so there can be fears about feeling clingy and dependent and stuff... And sometimes we push people away because... I'm not sure why... But if we can convince ourself that we don't feel those needy dependent clingy feelings then when they hurt us or aren't there for us or when they leave us then we think it won't hurt us as much as it would if we really allowed ourself to feel those needy feelings. So sometimes we push the person away by closing off or hating them or whatever...
But he has been there and he has been patient and you have been getting in touch with those feelings. In all my years of therapy... With all the people I've seen. I NEVER EVER NOT IN ONE MILLION YEARS would have told them how I really felt. NEVER EVER EVER. I wouldn't even... Not really... I wouldn't even have admitted it to myself. Because I feel disgusted with myself for having those feelings. Maybe because I thought that my father was disgusted / repulsed by me having those feelings. I don't know. Anyway... I guess you have been getting in touch with them. But with that comes a vulnerability.
I think this does happen. It is terrific that you can express your feelings of attachment to him and he is really very good with that. But I guess the inevitable will come up... All the fears and terrors... And then the defences come up. And it is hard because... Nobody is around forever. I don't know how this is supposed to go... I don't know. I guess you only feel the good feelings of attachment when the fears are put to one side. How to fight through the fears? I don't know. Being vulnerable... The risks... I think it is about... Somehow being okay with yeah having those feelings of attachment. And yeah coming to accept that the person won't be around forever. And yeah coming to accept that it will HURT LIKE HELL when they go. But somehow... Being able to open oneself up and be vulnerable anyway. And somehow know that while it will hurt a lot... You will be okay. It will be okay. You can attach again. I don't know what else to say, I'm sorry. This isn't really helpful most probably. But I guess it is a process. Maybe one hard thing is that... If you don't allow yourself to feel those feelings... If the defences come up... Then will it really hurt any less?
I don't think it does hurt any less. I don't think it does. But I don't know. No idea. Sorry.
Posted by TherapyGirl on September 25, 2006, at 21:02:55
In reply to I Need some help, but be gentle..., posted by daisym on September 25, 2006, at 20:15:07
I wish I could think of something to say to fix this for you, Daisy. I know you know how much your T has been there for you and what good work you've done together. I truly believe that you have a gifted T and that he is the perfect T for you.
I think, in spite of the fears you have (and I agree with what I understood Alexandra to say -- the fears are from our earlier attachments that didn't go all that well), you have to try to remember that he tells you the truth. He's never lied to you, right? And even with this, when you asked him about it, he told you the truth, right? So why not choose to believe that he's not going to terminate your therapy?
I've felt the fear. I know it's hard to hang on to facts and reasons when you are overwhelmed by fear. But I'm here to tell you that it's worth it if you can get through this yucky part.
(((((((((Daisy)))))))
Posted by frida on September 25, 2006, at 21:24:30
In reply to Re: I Need some help, but be gentle... » daisym, posted by TherapyGirl on September 25, 2006, at 21:02:55
Dear Daisy,
Safest hugs to you- I am sorry you are feeling unsure and hurting...
I so understand this fear you feel :-(
My T has been a solid rock for me, she makes me feel found in the moment after I was hurt, and when things are not well for whatever reason I feel so terrified of going back to that horrible place without her.
I remember one period in which her mother was ill...She wasn't available to me, I felt scared, she kept reassuring me that it wasn't that she was upset with me, but I felt so unstable...and this situation was so serious that she had to cancel appointments, one time she even had to interrupt our session in the middle because she received a phonecall and had to leave to the hospital.I don't know, it's so hard, but I know that you and your T will be Ok..When these things happen, I also tend to believe my T wants to get rid of me or that I am too much, and I'll lose her..or she's upset..but I try really hard to hang on to all she's said and done.. I've tested her so much. I know you too, and your T has proved he's trustworthy and always wants to work things through with you
I wish i knew what to say to you to make you feel you won't lose your T and he's there with you....I know how hard it is, that no matter what people say, you need to hear that something from him, something that will make it right...that will make you feel the connection..the warmth and safety.
We've been abandoned, betrayed and hurt as little children....we've taken our chances to trust again. it's really hard to trust...but i think you've built a very honest, and deep relationship with your T .... he'll find the way to make you feel reassured and safe again. I know.
I so understand your fears and feelings-
I also get desperate when things change or when I think about the possibility of losing my T or of she leaving me...
even thinking that she'll die one day makes me panic. She knows me and my dark stuff and secrets as no other and I trust her as no other person on earth.Your T won't let you down. Try to hang on to everything he's given you so far..he has always tried to work things through with you..and he knows your heart..you've worked so hard and deeply together.
Sending you support and safety
Sorry if this doesn't help much
Frida
>
Posted by frida on September 25, 2006, at 21:28:21
In reply to Re: I Need some help, but be gentle... » TherapyGirl, posted by frida on September 25, 2006, at 21:24:30
Posted by Daisym on September 25, 2006, at 21:43:28
In reply to Re: I Need some help, but be gentle... » daisym, posted by orchid on September 25, 2006, at 20:28:32
I remember when you wrote to me once that you were afraid my therapist would eventually hurt me because I was too attached. Perhaps you were right?
But I do believe that most of this is coming from me. You used the right word: agitated. I go from that to feeling completely defeated. I know eventually therapy ends and there will be that pain of separation, but I don't feel ready yet. I hope it doesn't hurt this much when it really is time to stop.
Thanks for your support. I appreciate it.
Posted by Dinah on September 25, 2006, at 22:00:04
In reply to I Need some help, but be gentle..., posted by daisym on September 25, 2006, at 20:15:07
It sounds not unlike what happened to me and my therapist, although not exactly because it seems like your therapist is holding things together better than mine did.
All I can say is that things did get better, when his life settled down. It used to feel like he just wasn't there, and I was absolutely frantic. We tried everything, because we worked on it together. But nothing really helped until his life got back together again.
He told me all along to just be patient, that he'd be there again fully, as soon as he could be. And he was. He's more or less the same now as he ever was. He's fully present, and I'm no longer frantic.
I can't say things are the same, because there's a new element in our relationship. The knowledge that it did happen once, and it could happen again, and it's really not in my control. That's never going to go away, although I try not to focus on it.
But it did get better. He did get more available, and he is fully present with me now.
I know it's not the best of worlds. But it's not the worst of worlds either.
Maybe it's just a bit of reality intruding on the magic bond. Maybe it's not unlike what attachment to others is like. Even the best parents have occasional ruptures in their attachments with their children. But they can be repaired. And in good relationships, they are. I think you have a good relationship with your therapist.
I know it won't stop the frantic feeling. Nothing but a repair of the attachment can quite do that, at least in my experience. But if you keep in mind that both of you are working on this, and are committed to this, then maybe you can soothe yourself a bit with the reminder that things will eventually get back to normal, just as soon as your therapist can manage it.
Do you have any idea what the personal matter is?
Posted by Daisym on September 25, 2006, at 22:21:41
In reply to Re: I Need some help, but be gentle... » daisym, posted by alexandra_k on September 25, 2006, at 20:36:32
I'm sorry sweetie :-( I think I understand how you feel... I've felt a little like that with one of my t's too...
I've been reading about transference :-(
One of the things that struck me... I don't know if this will resonate or not... But I'll talk about it a little and you can have a think about whether it seems to fit for you... I can't remember *precisely* what was said so I guess this is my rorscarch version of it (however you spell that) but <sigh> I don't have much time <glance furtively around the room> so I'll just have to do the best I can.
***************Transference sucks. I'm sure this plays into it in a huge way because it all got a million times worse after I told him what happened to me when I was 5.Attachment... Dependency. Attachment is something about feeling safe and protected and happy in the presence of another person. Just their being around. Feeling connected, or something. I guess the first person we attach to is usually a primary caregiver or something. And I guess that attachment is supposed to get internalised so that we carry that feeling around inside of us instead of literally needing anothers presence we kind of figuratively or metaphorically have that inside us. Or something. Then as we get older we attach to people. And people come and people go and stuff like that but it is meant to be okay because the first one went okay and we got to internalise that.
But sometimes that first attachment really didn't go okay. Maybe the person wasn't sensitive enough to our needs. Maybe that person wasn't very comforting when we needed them to be. Maybe that person hurt us instead of comforting. Maybe that person left when we needed them. Either left emotionally or left physically or whatever.
************My dad left me and moved 3000 miles away when I was 12 1/2. No good-bye, no big final scene -- just...gone. I saw him again when my brother graduated from high school -- about 5 1/2 years later. You'd think I would be happy about this, right? But I was so conflicted. I loved him and I was trying so hard to fix him. My mom worked all the time. I knew she loved me, but she just wasn't there. So my dad gave me the attention I wanted, even though it was often hurtful.
And when that happens... Then there can be terror. Maybe terror is too stong. Intense fears. Whatever. But fears of feeling dependency. Maybe we think that we were too needy. That our needs are too great. And if that is the case then it is not safe to demonstrate our needs because in the past we demonstrated our needs and the person hurt us. Was repulsed by us. Left us. Hurt us. Whatever. And so there can be fears about feeling clingy and dependent and stuff... And sometimes we push people away because... I'm not sure why... But if we can convince ourself that we don't feel those needy dependent clingy feelings then when they hurt us or aren't there for us or when they leave us then we think it won't hurt us as much as it would if we really allowed ourself to feel those needy feelings. So sometimes we push the person away by closing off or hating them or whatever...
****************************Doesn't make sense, does it? Push people away because we crave being close. And yes, there is terror. Primal terror that says without this person I will fragment and fall apart. My therapist says that I describe it as clingy because needing at all feels to me like I'm smothering someone. I think I know two speeds - completely open or completely closed.
But he has been there and he has been patient and you have been getting in touch with those feelings. In all my years of therapy... With all the people I've seen. I NEVER EVER NOT IN ONE MILLION YEARS would have told them how I really felt. NEVER EVER EVER. I wouldn't even... Not really... I wouldn't even have admitted it to myself. Because I feel disgusted with myself for having those feelings. Maybe because I thought that my father was disgusted / repulsed by me having those feelings. I don't know. Anyway... I guess you have been getting in touch with them. But with that comes a vulnerability.
**********************Yup - totally vulnerable. And mortified sometimes. But othertimes it feels OK - the truth is the contract we have between us. If there are any real rules about therapy, I think telling the truth as you see it is the big rule. So I can use the word love and he knows what I mean. I do ask if he is disgusted or mad or think I'm presumptuous - but he says he thinks I need to be able to fully love someone in a safe relationship and he is honored it "gets to" be him. I always smile at that -- like he has a choice? I'm sad you haven't shared these feelings with a safe therapist. When it goes well, it feels very, very special.
I think this does happen. It is terrific that you can express your feelings of attachment to him and he is really very good with that. But I guess the inevitable will come up... All the fears and terrors... And then the defences come up. And it is hard because... Nobody is around forever. I don't know how this is supposed to go... I don't know. I guess you only feel the good feelings of attachment when the fears are put to one side. How to fight through the fears? I don't know. Being vulnerable... The risks... I think it is about... Somehow being okay with yeah having those feelings of attachment. And yeah coming to accept that the person won't be around forever. And yeah coming to accept that it will HURT LIKE HELL when they go. But somehow... Being able to open oneself up and be vulnerable anyway. And somehow know that while it will hurt a lot... You will be okay. It will be okay. You can attach again. I don't know what else to say, I'm sorry. This isn't really helpful most probably. But I guess it is a process. Maybe one hard thing is that... If you don't allow yourself to feel those feelings... If the defences come up... Then will it really hurt any less?
***************************No - I doubt it would hurt less. What is that saying? Better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all... But I can't seem to control the defenses - how do I learn to do that? And I've hurt so much before, you'd think I'd be used to it. But the thing is - it isn't time to stop yet. He says so. I say so. It is just this young terrified part that says, "protect me- don't let him hurt me." Loving is so dangerous.
I don't think it does hurt any less. I don't think it does. But I don't know. No idea. Sorry.
******************Don't be sorry. It helps to read it all thought out by someone else. I wish understanding it would instantly "cure" whatever it is that is in the way. Because the hole is huge and that is as scary as the attachment.
Can't win, can I?
Posted by Daisym on September 25, 2006, at 22:24:08
In reply to Re: I Need some help, but be gentle... » daisym, posted by TherapyGirl on September 25, 2006, at 21:02:55
You sound like him, "I've never lied to you." This is true, even when the truth was painful, he told me the truth. It is awful to hear him say I'm hurting him though. I feel like the most selfish and ungrateful person, ever.
Thanks for the encouragement. Hanging in there seems to be the only think I can do right now.
Posted by Daisym on September 25, 2006, at 22:32:03
In reply to Re: I Need some help, but be gentle... » TherapyGirl, posted by frida on September 25, 2006, at 21:24:30
I never thought I was afraid of change but I feel like Monk: "don't change anything-- EVER." :(
I'm glad to hear that you struggle too but have worked through it each and every time. I need to be reminded of our strong bond because I feel sometimes like I'm on shaking ground. The most difficult thing is that I *know* it is mostly me feeling stuff that is really old. But it is so powerful, I do get really upset. It isn't that he isn't allowed to be human - I think I'm not allowing myself to be human. I don't want to need or miss him this much.
*sigh*
I know you know. And it helps. Thanks
Posted by Daisym on September 25, 2006, at 22:58:29
In reply to Re: I Need some help, but be gentle... » daisym, posted by Dinah on September 25, 2006, at 22:00:04
I think about you often around this situation, Dinah. It is different, no loss of homes involved, but still, you are right, reality is intruding. The thing is, this isn't something I should know. It isn't bad, in fact it is really sad, but it is none of my business. But I'm so attuned to him and narcassistic enough to assume it is "all about me" that he needed to clear up that part. And the not being as available in reality means it might take him longer to call me back. I said I wouldn't call if I didn't really need him - and he continues to say, "if you call, you must really need me." And I've put a fair amount of that stuff away.
I moved the rest of my stuff out of our home on Saturday. That was pretty painful. My husband has been seeing a woman for a few weeks now (we've been separated 5 months) so I feel a little kicked in the stomach. He freely shares that she is everything I'm not, including thin and fun. He knows exactly the right thing to say to hurt me the most - weight would be one of those. I keep wondering if this is contributing to how alone I feel in therapy. My therapist has been nothing but supportive of this move but perhaps there are feelings tangled up in there...who knows?
And two weeks ago I told a story in therapy and this whole other memory popped out, stuff I had no intention of telling him. Ever. So I was really upset and spaced out after that session. And it was a Thursday so I had to hold all these worries to myself for three days.
I managed to tell him today that I'm "this far" from falling apart -- too much work, too much husband crap, too much kid sadness and too much internal conflict. So I desperately wanted to fix all this between us, but I just don't know how. He said we just keep talking about it. But for once, I have no words.
I appreciate though you reminding me that you have fought hard and worked your way back to the connection. I hope I find my way too.
Posted by alexandra_k on September 25, 2006, at 22:58:56
In reply to Re: I Need some help, but be gentle... » alexandra_k, posted by Daisym on September 25, 2006, at 22:21:41
> ***************Transference sucks. I'm sure this plays into it in a huge way because it all got a million times worse after I told him what happened to me when I was 5.
i'm guessing you were hurt. talking about that has gotta make you feel pretty vulnerable and scared and stuff. and hence... more sensitive to his getting sick of you or witdrawing from you or whatever.
> ************My dad left me and moved 3000 miles away when I was 12 1/2. No good-bye, no big final scene -- just...gone. I saw him again when my brother graduated from high school -- about 5 1/2 years later. You'd think I would be happy about this, right? But I was so conflicted. I loved him and I was trying so hard to fix him. My mom worked all the time. I knew she loved me, but she just wasn't there. So my dad gave me the attention I wanted, even though it was often hurtful.yeah. i understand. my father didn't give me attention... but he let me follow him around chattering at him and stuff. he never hurt me. i mean he never hit me or called me names. but i never got any attention from him. but i tried to be good. to be good. maybe if i was good enough he would pay me attention. maybe... if you were good enough and tried your hardest to do what your father wanted maybe he would be kind to you. but they left. and so... its scarey. sounds like just expressing the feelings of attachment is significant progress from where you used to be. maybe you used to be more like me? where you would never ever express... i don't know. maybe the problem is my mother was so emotionally intense and i'd see my father cringe. i always tried to mute my emotions mute my emotions never show any emotions then maybe he wouldn't be repulsed by me. i'm sorry.
> ****************************Doesn't make sense, does it? Push people away because we crave being close.well... push people away because we are so terrified of being hurt. and you care therefore you hurt. so not to care not to care no feelings you can't hurt me.
> And yes, there is terror. Primal terror that says without this person I will fragment and fall apart.
yeah. i understand that. i understand that big time. maybe that is where the healing is supposed to come in... to have faith in yourself that you won't fall apart. that you can handle it. that while it will hurt like hell you will be okay. but yeah... time. or something. i don't know. getting a little stronger...
My therapist says that I describe it as clingy because needing at all feels to me like I'm smothering someone. I think I know two speeds - completely open or completely closed.yeah.
> **********************... I do ask if he is disgusted or mad or think I'm presumptuous - but he says he thinks I need to be able to fully love someone in a safe relationship and he is honored it "gets to" be him. I always smile at that -- like he has a choice?
well you could have gone to see a different therapist. and if you had gone to see a different therapist and you had had a decent fit with them then... you would be feeling the attachment and stuff for them. i think that can be part of the healing... i know therapists aren't like washing machines... it takes a lot of time to get to know them and trust them and work out how to communicate with them and stuff... maybe it is about seeing life as... an opportunity to form attachments with all sorts of people. just in the sense that it isn't like you have one shot and that is it. or even two shots and that is it. sure you miss people and once you get to know them nobody can replace them. but the attachment... can happen with different people. with your father. with your therapist. if you had a different therapist then with them. instead of an irrevokable loss that is soul destroying... it hurts a whole heap yeah... but life goes on and other attachments are possible. or something.
> ***************************No - I doubt it would hurt less.
yeah... though maybe it depends on how well you can repress them or something. i'm not sure...
> What is that saying? Better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all...
yeah i reckon so. better to see life and other people as opportunities for attachments (of varying degrees of intensities and depths) than as a hostile world where people thwart your needs...
(maybe that is what is gained from secure attachment)
> But I can't seem to control the defenses - how do I learn to do that?
i don't know. maybe it takes time. maybe the ebb and flow will teach you. i mean... you are open and trusting and feel connected... then you feel scared and close off... then you talk about that and some time goes on and you are open and trusting and feel connected... then you feel scared and close off. the fear isn't necessarily that something shifts in you, either. it can be because there is stuff going on for him and so he is a little bit distracted or removed. but to see the process of closeness and a little bit of distance and closeness and a little bit of distance. so that when there is a little bit of distance one has the experience of the process to appreciate that... this too shall pass and the closeness will come back. to have that faith and not feel the terror. the terror that arises from past experiences. maybe it is just the process that is supposed to heal.
> And I've hurt so much before, you'd think I'd be used to it.
no. i think the past hurts are what makes it harder to deal with. when you are a kid and the backing off consists in... abandonment. then when there is some distance the terror of abandonment comes back. the past is what makes it so very hard.
> But the thing is - it isn't time to stop yet. He says so. I say so. It is just this young terrified part that says, "protect me- don't let him hurt me." Loving is so dangerous.
yeah. time... time for the process... self soothing... remembering times in the past when you have felt scared and then come to feel better. where he has backed off and then come back. remember the process... i think it is about coming to internalise things. what i worry about with therapy sometimes is how we are supposed to learn about attachments to *different* people, however. i wonder how we are supposed to learn to come to have faith in the world more generally. i have no idea...
Posted by antigua on September 26, 2006, at 0:25:29
In reply to I Need some help, but be gentle..., posted by daisym on September 25, 2006, at 20:15:07
I'm really sorry this is happening now when you feel you need his absolute full attention.
It's hard to remember our Ts are human--and have feelings of their own that have nothing to do with us. He's trying, so keep trying with him.
The other day I went to see my T. The door was locked so I rang the bell... a few times. She finally came to the door, hid behind it actually and said "we don't have an appt today." Just like that, she was ready to shut the door. But.. I reminded her of the schedule change we had made and she said come back in 1/2 hour. I felt so very rejected. I didn't like that look on her face, of me having done something wrong.
she called me 25 minutes later to come back, and her "T" personality was in place, like nothing had ever happened. Didn't change my rejection, or that I was a nuisance to her. We talked about it, but I really didn't like the person I saw.
so they're human. But your T is trying his best. Let him do his job, and you do yours, by trusting him to work this out.
best,
antigua
Posted by annierose on September 26, 2006, at 9:42:11
In reply to Re: I Need some help, but be gentle... » Dinah, posted by Daisym on September 25, 2006, at 22:58:29
Eveyone has posted such wonderful insights that I don't know if I can contribute more except support.
You will get through this because you have in the past. There could be several issues converging together - transference, sensing correctly he is less available (thinking about his friend), re-creating the detachment you felt as a child --- have you heard the term counter-phobic? My child's T explained it as creating for yourself (in the here and now) that very thing you are most afraid of happening. It feels like a little of that is occuring here.
Perhaps moving the final items from your home triggered a finality of your decision - a seperation - and that is bringing up for you the feelings of seperating from your T. Gently remind yourself that he is not asking you to leave him. In fact, he wants to continue the therapy as it was. He wants to see you. He wants you to share what you are thinking. He wants to help you because he can.
((((((((((dasiy)))))))))))))
I hope you find that special place soon.
Love, Annie
Posted by muffled on September 26, 2006, at 9:53:35
In reply to I Need some help, but be gentle..., posted by daisym on September 25, 2006, at 20:15:07
Posted by happyflower on September 26, 2006, at 12:28:19
In reply to Re: I Need some help, but be gentle..., posted by annierose on September 26, 2006, at 9:42:11
Daisy,
It is so hard to hear how you are stuggling, but I feel your T will be there for you. I am so glad you have him.
I too remember feeling something was off in one of my sessions, and it was frusterating me completely. I started to act out on it. When it was time to make another appointment, he got really huffy with me because I couldn't make up my mind on what day. I made a joke and he totally looked at me "coldly". It is a look I will never forget. Well as we were leaving, he normally opens the door, well I just grabed my coat and opened it myself, and said BYE!
He later got a very upset happyflower call. Well it turns out he had a doctors appointment right after my appointment where there might be doing some rather uncomforable things to him, so this is why he was acting so weird with me. He applolgies and said it had nothing to do with me. Well I did learn a very good lesson, that a lot of times when people act strange with us, it probably has nothing to do with us. Well this lesson has come in handy a lot in my life since.
So even though it is hard to see our T's as less than being perfect, it does help deal with that feeling in our real lives . But it hurt like heck. (((((Daisy)))))
p.s. I would like to clobber your ex. for you , if you don't mind. what a jerk!
Posted by LadyBug on September 26, 2006, at 13:59:28
In reply to I Need some help, but be gentle..., posted by daisym on September 25, 2006, at 20:15:07
I have confidence that you and your T will work it through. You have a strong connection with him.
I think we get so in tune with each other when we
work on such deep level. I believe you will figure out what it is that you are feeling. It takes time and lots of thoughts.I understand how you are feeling as I'm in a little bit of the same situation, however I know where mine started and I know what has happened. I also realize that when things feel like this it takes so much time and effort to get back to what we consider normal.
I'm sorry it's so hard to have had to move your things out of your house and already he is seeing someone? Are you going to be divorced for sure, or are you just trying the seperation for now. Or maybe it's none of my business. Just know that my heart goes out to you right now. I'm glad you can work on yourself with your T. That's important.
Nothing stays the same and nothing lasts forever, not even pain. It will change and you will get past this time in your life.
Hugs
LadyBug
Posted by Fallsfall on October 1, 2006, at 8:44:32
In reply to I Need some help, but be gentle..., posted by daisym on September 25, 2006, at 20:15:07
>stuff I had no intention of telling him
Hmmmmmmm. Daisy...... You aren't supposed to have "stuff" that you intend not to tell him.....
(((((Daisy)))))
I know this hurts so much for you. I liked the idea that someone said that he DOESN"T lie to you. You can trust that he is telling you the truth now. That he isn't trying to push you away. That he won't terminate you.
You worry that you will be too much for him. That you will hurt him. Yes. you can hurt him - because he cares about you. And with caring comes the possiblity of being hurt. But he has entered into this relationship very willingly (just as you have). And he is skilled at taking care of himself. He will protect himself. And he does. I don't think that you can hurt him in the way that you think. I don't think you can be "too much" for him. What you are sensing IS him protecting himself. He is carving out enough of himself to take care of his personal issue. But that doesn't mean that there isn't ALSO enough of himself to take care of you. It's all a question of priorities. We all have a finite amount of energy, and we choose where to put that energy. When there is a lot going on, then the lowest priority stuff might get shorted, but even the middle priority stuff gets what it needs. He will adjust his priorities as needed. But, clearly, you aren't a low priority for him. You know that. And you won't make his whole system topple. He will keep his system stable.
He is asking you to sometimes accept a response that is a little later than you would expect. He is NOT saying that there won't be a response. This learning to be patient is SO hard, but it is really useful.
I've had to adjust my priorities recently. (My dad will be moving to rehab as soon as a bed is free. He is slowly doing better.) And some things that I used to do (like reading this board) had to be put on hold. But I read it today (mostly because I wanted to see how you were doing and you haven't emailed me). So life may be different for a little while - but it is just a variation of what it was - it isn't a complete difference. I smile thinking of you not seeing the grey - that's MY trick!
He's there for you. And he'll protect himself - you don't have to protect him. In therapy, that is his job. And you don't have to protect ME so much, either, you know.
Love,
Falls.
Posted by Daisym on October 1, 2006, at 23:36:29
In reply to Re: I Need some help, but be gentle..., posted by Fallsfall on October 1, 2006, at 8:44:32
Sorry that I abandoned this thread. It got too painful for awhile.
We've talked a lot this past week about how much abandonment there has been in my life and how huge this feeling was when the abuse started, even though no one physically left. I was just suddenly all alone in a world that had tilted. So I've been protecting myself, not letting my therapist close to me, and not feeling him either. He says we just keep working on it, we keep talking about it.
I told him that I've been afraid of him lately -- at least my younger parts are. He said he can understand that, he isn't offended, but he promises that I won't ever have to offer sex to get him to stay. And we talked about touch a lot this week -- it is such a double-edge sword! How great would it be to feel wrapped up and protected? How terrifying would it feel to be wrapped up and vulnerable?
Have I said, "therapy is hard?" It is, it is, it is!!!
thanks for the support and replies.
This is the end of the thread.
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