![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by fairywings on December 14, 2005, at 20:19:22
earlier in the month i told my t the crux of my problem, and now i'm feeling a lot of pain because of it. i knew i'd have to go there if i ever expected help, but like cricket said i guess i expected support, but what i'm getting doesn't feel very supportive. my t is a really kind, caring person, and i'm sure he wants to help, but it feels like he just wants me to get over it already.
as far as what i told him, the ''big'' issue for me is that after i was raped, it got to a point where i just couldn't deal with anything anymore. i ended up cutting my wrists and arms. now, i'm so ashamed of the scars that i'm afraid to be around people, i'm afraid they'll see the scars and judge me. i have never been able to get beyond it.
in my last therapy session my t, got me to see that i don't belong anywhere. i never let people in, i don't trust, i have no real relationships other than with my family. he also made me realize i don't have a clue what i believe in. i've lost my faith, at least the people part of it.
this is one of the hard parts for me. he asked me at what point i move on, at what point i put this behind me and get on with my life. i told him i've tried to move on, i've tried to put it behind me, but i haven't been able to do that. i felt like he was saying what's done is done, now quit feeling sorry for yourself, and move on. I felt so pathetic. how do you just "move on"?
what was also very difficult for me was that he forgot about our appt. he came out, and said, are we meeting tonight? it didn't bother me at first, then i was thinking, there are no coincidences, he didn't want to see me. it was just one appt prior to this one when i told him about the cutting, and now he's forgotten our appt. i know ppl might hear that and think it was an innocent mistake, and i'm sure it was, but when clients forget appts. after big stuff, it's supposed to indicate they're avoiding something, right? So his forgetting our appt. could mean he didn't want to see me, couldn't it? when he has appts he's prepared, he knows who's coming, and he's brought himself up to date. since he didn't know i was coming, it means he wasn't prepared. he was flying by the seat of his pants. he couldn't even remember how many kids i had, i've told him many, many times how many kids we have. he also spent the first 1/2 hour giving me a history lesson. it was interesting, but nothing to do with me. he's a story teller, he gets off on tangents a lot, but i want to do therapy. i do find what he says interesting, but time is limited, and next year i'm going to be more anxious about his tangents because the # of appts will be limited.
also, he seems to be somewhat critical of a friendship i have with someone i met on the internet about 8 years ago. it's no secret to my family. my kids "know" her kids, i know her, she knows me. he finds it "compelling" that i consider her a friend, when i have very few IRL friends, and no IRL friends who are really close. he knows nothing about babble, and now i'm really afraid to tell him. i guess i live a virtual life, although lately i haven't been on the computer much because i don't feel like doing anything. sorry, i guess i haven't been very supportive lately.
sorry to go on and on. can anyone help?
fw
Posted by LegWarmers on December 14, 2005, at 21:58:07
In reply to starting to feel the pain (long ) **triggers***, posted by fairywings on December 14, 2005, at 20:19:22
> earlier in the month i told my t the crux of my problem, and now i'm feeling a lot of pain because of it. i knew i'd have to go there if i ever expected help, but like cricket said i guess i expected support, but what i'm getting doesn't feel very supportive. my t is a really kind, caring person, and i'm sure he wants to help, but it feels like he just wants me to get over it already.
>
Can you express to him how you dont feel supported by him?> as far as what i told him, the ''big'' issue for me is that after i was raped, it got to a point where i just couldn't deal with anything anymore. i ended up cutting my wrists and arms. now, i'm so ashamed of the scars that i'm afraid to be around people, i'm afraid they'll see the scars and judge me. i have never been able to get beyond it.
>The fear of being judged is understandable. But how bad is it? Do shirts not cover it? You never kjnow what another person will think, or say, or feel but I doubt that anyone would judge you negatvely. If they saw the scars and 'understood' what they were they would probably see someone who went through a very difficult time. Not judgements.
> in my last therapy session my t, got me to see that i don't belong anywhere. i never let people in, i don't trust, i have no real relationships other than with my family. he also made me realize i don't have a clue what i believe in. i've lost my faith, at least the people part of it.
you will get it back
>
> this is one of the hard parts for me. he asked me at what point i move on, at what point i put this behind me and get on with my life. i told him i've tried to move on, i've tried to put it behind me, but i haven't been able to do that. i felt like he was saying what's done is done, now quit feeling sorry for yourself, and move on. I felt so pathetic. how do you just "move on"?
>
You can't, I posted about forgive and forget...in a sense I was thinking along the same lines. You just can't forget and move on. We are not machines and we do not have a standard time line to heal according to diffenrnet wounds, its individual, I wonder if maybe his pressure is making the process harder?> what was also very difficult for me was that he forgot about our appt. he came out, and said, are we meeting tonight? it didn't bother me at first, then i was thinking, there are no coincidences, he didn't want to see me. it was just one appt prior to this one when i told him about the cutting, and now he's forgotten our appt. i know ppl might hear that and think it was an innocent mistake, and i'm sure it was, but when clients forget appts. after big stuff, it's supposed to indicate they're avoiding something, right?
I was thinking that :), but I understand how that feels. Sure you could say that but I doubt it, I really wouldnt take it personally. Can you talk to him about these feelings? It will lift a huge load. i know we shouldnt think like this, but its a stressful time of the year... maybe hes is preoccupied.
So his forgetting our appt. could mean he didn't want to see me, couldn't it?
It could I guess, but I dont think its very likely
when he has appts he's prepared, he knows who's coming, and he's brought himself up to date. since he didn't know i was coming, it means he wasn't prepared. he was flying by the seat of his pants. he couldn't even remember how many kids i had, i've told him many, many times how many kids we have. he also spent the first 1/2 hour giving me a history lesson. it was interesting, but nothing to do with me. he's a story teller, he gets off on tangents a lot, but i want to do therapy. i do find what he says interesting, but time is limited, and next year i'm going to be more anxious about his tangents because the # of appts will be limited.
>((Fairywings))
> also, he seems to be somewhat critical of a friendship i have with someone i met on the internet about 8 years ago. it's no secret to my family. my kids "know" her kids, i know her, she knows me. he finds it "compelling" that i consider her a friend, when i have very few IRL friends, and no IRL friends who are really close. he knows nothing about babble, and now i'm really afraid to tell him. i guess i live a virtual life, although lately i haven't been on the computer much because i don't feel like doing anything. sorry, i guess i haven't been very supportive lately.
>People are vary wary of the internet, its definately one of those things you can't understnad until you have done it.
> sorry to go on and on. can anyone help?
> fw
>
>you didn't go on and on
Im sorry you feel so bad :(
(((fairywings)))
-LW
Posted by daisym on December 15, 2005, at 0:02:47
In reply to starting to feel the pain (long ) **triggers***, posted by fairywings on December 14, 2005, at 20:19:22
I know you don't think so but you are doing really, really well. You've told your therapist a lot of painful stuff -- and that is hard to do.
I'll ask you the question my therapist always asks me: "Do you think I want you to get over this because YOU think you should be over it?" It is really hard to sort out projection. I think you should check your assumptions with your therapist.
It is a long process and learning to trust is for me the hardest part. I'm always braced for that moment when it seems I've leaned too much, talked to much or not made the other person laugh for too long.
And faith is this amazingly resilent thing. Just when you think you've completely lost it you see something that flickers it back to life. Like the curls on a newborn or a snowflake on your child's nose. Life is good and bad. As hard as it is to remember that sometimes, I think it is important.
Your scars are probably much more noticeable to you and much more obvious to you than anyone else. I have a rope burn across my arm that i got water skiing. It could be any number of things. I rarely get asked about it. Your internal scars worry me a great deal more.
Maybe one of the things you can do is try to imagine what it would look like for you to "move on." How do you think you would want to feel? What would be different? What does the term mean to you? I think writing this down might be a good way to bring it up with your therapist.
Hang in there. This is the hard part.
Posted by Tamar on December 15, 2005, at 4:18:55
In reply to starting to feel the pain (long ) **triggers***, posted by fairywings on December 14, 2005, at 20:19:22
(((((Fairywings)))))
> earlier in the month i told my t the crux of my problem, and now i'm feeling a lot of pain because of it. i knew i'd have to go there if i ever expected help, but like cricket said i guess i expected support, but what i'm getting doesn't feel very supportive. my t is a really kind, caring person, and i'm sure he wants to help, but it feels like he just wants me to get over it already.
It sounds as if you’re in a lot of pain. Maybe you need to keep telling him how much pain there is.
> as far as what i told him, the ''big'' issue for me is that after i was raped, it got to a point where i just couldn't deal with anything anymore. i ended up cutting my wrists and arms. now, i'm so ashamed of the scars that i'm afraid to be around people, i'm afraid they'll see the scars and judge me. i have never been able to get beyond it.
Before I knew about self-injury I saw marks on someone’s arms and assumed she’d been in an accident or something. It was only much later I realised what they were.
All right-thinking people would see your scars and think, “That’s a woman who has suffered. It’s a shame that people suffer in this world.” Anyone who would judge you negatively doesn’t understand, and so doesn’t deserve an opinion.
But actually I wonder if these scars are very symbolic for you. It sounds to me as if they symbolise both the shame of the rape and the shame of struggling to deal with it. And I wonder if your fears of being judged for your scars are somehow symbolically fears about being judged for being raped. Women are often blamed when they experience rape; we’re told it’s our fault if we were drinking or wearing revealing clothes or walking outdoors after dark or associating with people who take risks. And these attitudes surround us constantly; it’s difficult to get away from it.
And rape is also minimised in our culture; on TV it’s used as a shocking event to create a plot twist, but the woman character usually bounces back as if it were no more than a minor setback... Or sometimes the plot doesn’t focus on the woman but on the chase to catch the rapist (in which case it’s a struggle between the cops and the criminal rather than between the woman and the criminal and the woman becomes invisible). It’s also very hard to convict a man of rape because of the way the criminal justice system works. So it many ways it’s not taken seriously enough, and if women struggle to cope with it they might feel they’re making too much of a big deal out of it.
So I can imagine you might worry that people will see your scars and believe that the rape was your fault and that you should have coped with it better. And maybe, deep down, you still wonder if it was your fault or if you could have done something different. So at this point I’d say: IT WAS NOT YOUR FAULT. But you have to believe that yourself.
> in my last therapy session my t, got me to see that i don't belong anywhere. i never let people in, i don't trust, i have no real relationships other than with my family. he also made me realize i don't have a clue what i believe in. i've lost my faith, at least the people part of it.
That sounds lonely. Do you feel lonely? Or do you feel that safety is the most important thing?
> this is one of the hard parts for me. he asked me at what point i move on, at what point i put this behind me and get on with my life. i told him i've tried to move on, i've tried to put it behind me, but i haven't been able to do that. i felt like he was saying what's done is done, now quit feeling sorry for yourself, and move on. I felt so pathetic. how do you just "move on"?
You can’t just move on. It’s a process. I would say that one thing that might help would be coming to believe that no one has a right to judge you about the scars on your arms. Sometimes people can be judgmental, and often the people who are most judgmental are the people who have the least compassion or understanding of human suffering. But you don’t have to take their opinion seriously because you know they don’t know what they’re talking about.
Have you experienced people saying unkind things to you about your scars? Sometimes I think it’s a good idea to have a planned retort: something you say automatically if anyone mentions your scars. It doesn’t even have to be true: you can lie you *ss off. You can say something like: “Actually, that was part of the initiation rite of the street gang I was in,” or “I had surgery as a child after both my hands were severed in a freak accident.” Or simply ask, “What are those holes in your brain?” And then there’s my personal favourite, “Mind your own damn business.” Replace ‘damn’ with an expletive of your choice, depending on the context.
> what was also very difficult for me was that he forgot about our appt. he came out, and said, are we meeting tonight? it didn't bother me at first, then i was thinking, there are no coincidences, he didn't want to see me. it was just one appt prior to this one when i told him about the cutting, and now he's forgotten our appt. i know ppl might hear that and think it was an innocent mistake, and i'm sure it was, but when clients forget appts. after big stuff, it's supposed to indicate they're avoiding something, right? So his forgetting our appt. could mean he didn't want to see me, couldn't it?
Hmm… while I can go along with your ‘no coincidences’ idea, I think you might be stretching it too far when you infer that he didn’t want to see you. I think it *is* significant that he wasn’t prepared for your appointment. But there are many possible interpretations. If you had a big session last session, perhaps he wanted to think quite a bit about where to go next. And maybe for various reasons he hadn’t come to a definite conclusion. And so perhaps unconsciously he wasn’t ready to see you because he hadn’t sorted out in his own mind how best to proceed. That would also explain the half-hour history lesson: a distraction from the real work, which he hadn’t decided how to approach.
I don’t know if that’s what happened, but it’s an alternative (and, I hope, plausible) explanation for his lack of preparation. There may be other explanations. Maybe you could ask him?
> he also spent the first 1/2 hour giving me a history lesson. it was interesting, but nothing to do with me. he's a story teller, he gets off on tangents a lot, but i want to do therapy. i do find what he says interesting, but time is limited, and next year i'm going to be more anxious about his tangents because the # of appts will be limited.
Yeah… it is supposed to be your therapy! Do you find it hard to interrupt him?
> also, he seems to be somewhat critical of a friendship i have with someone i met on the internet about 8 years ago. it's no secret to my family. my kids "know" her kids, i know her, she knows me. he finds it "compelling" that i consider her a friend, when i have very few IRL friends, and no IRL friends who are really close.
I wouldn’t worry too much about the word compelling. It’s not necessarily negative. I read a compelling novel last week and loved it: couldn’t put it down. I think he just means that the online friendship is something that you feel very drawn to. He might find it significant that you are emotionally very close to someone you correspond with rather than meeting face to face. He might think you enjoy the distance inherent in an online friendship because it might feel safer to you than a friendship IRL.
> he knows nothing about babble, and now i'm really afraid to tell him. i guess i live a virtual life, although lately i haven't been on the computer much because i don't feel like doing anything.
It sounds as if you’re afraid he’s going to judge you negatively. And yet, is he really doing that? After all, there’s nothing wrong with having online friendships. I think he’s simply asking you to consider the possibility that you avoid IRL friendships because you find it hard to trust people and you don’t feel safe. There is nothing wrong with having difficulty trusting people and needing to feel safe. But if that’s how you feel, you might be happier if you are able to begin to trust people more. I’m sure he doesn’t think there’s anything wrong or bad in the way you live your life… but maybe with a few changes you could be happier. That’s what therapy’s for (IMHO).
> sorry, i guess i haven't been very supportive lately.
First: no need to apologise for not being supportive. No one can be supportive all the time.
Second: Actually you have been very supportive; I see supportive messages from you all over this board!Take good care of yourself.
Tamar
Posted by annierose on December 15, 2005, at 5:24:40
In reply to starting to feel the pain (long ) **triggers***, posted by fairywings on December 14, 2005, at 20:19:22
It's so hard to keep feeling the pain. Try to keep talking about the pain, go around and around it, seeing it from different angles and experiences. It's so overwhelming and comsuming at times. But you'll find, the more you talk about it with your T, you'll start gaining perspective and distance.
Sorry you're feeling bad. You are supportive here.
Posted by fairywings on December 15, 2005, at 10:45:35
In reply to Re: starting to feel the pain (long ) **triggers*** » fairywings, posted by LegWarmers on December 14, 2005, at 21:58:07
Hi LW, thanks for your reply.
> Can you express to him how you dont feel supported by him?
I think I'm going to have to tell him that he confuses me. One week he's very supportive, and the next he's challenging me. At first I felt the challeging me was minimizing what I went through. Now I know it's to try to get me to look at things differently. but it's so back and forth, back and forth. It's like he doesn't know what to do with me.
> The fear of being judged is understandable. But how bad is it? Do shirts not cover it? You never kjnow what another person will think, or say, or feel but I doubt that anyone would judge you negatvely. If they saw the scars and 'understood' what they were they would probably see someone who went through a very difficult time. Not judgements.
I hate the cold of winter, but love that it covers the scars. In the summertime they're somewhat faint, but still I can see them. My kids have never mentioned them, so I don't know how obvious they are. I just feel like they jump out in everyone's face, and that ppl will think I'm unstable.
> You can't, I posted about forgive and forget...in a sense I was thinking along the same lines. You just can't forget and move on. We are not machines and we do not have a standard time line to heal according to diffenrnet wounds, its individual, I wonder if maybe his pressure is making the process harder?
I agree, and it's painful to hear, "you need to move on", which he didn't say, but that's what i heard. He said, At what point do you move on? Heck, I don't know. First tell me how, then we'll see when. I know he doesn't want me to waste one more minute, and I appreciate that, but I've been this way for so long, I can't just turn it off.
> I was thinking that :), but I understand how that feels. Sure you could say that but I doubt it, I really wouldnt take it personally. Can you talk to him about these feelings? It will lift a huge load. i know we shouldnt think like this, but its a stressful time of the year... maybe hes is preoccupied.
I'm going to tell him it hurt that he didn't know we had an appt. bec. I know that he is usually prepared. I know it wasn't his fault, he's a good man, I'm just feeling a little irrational I guess.
> People are vary wary of the internet, its definately one of those things you can't understnad until you have done it.
I know Tamar hit this one on the head, he knows I don't feel safe with IRL stuff, so I have internet friends. It feels safer, less anxious. I told him a long time ago I need to do email therapy.
> you didn't go on and on
>
> Im sorry you feel so bad :(Thanks LW, you're so kind, and I really appreciate your thoughts.
fw
Posted by fairywings on December 15, 2005, at 11:09:31
In reply to Re: starting to feel the pain (long ) **triggers*** » fairywings, posted by daisym on December 15, 2005, at 0:02:47
Hi daisy, thanks. i agree, i think getting to this part, telling him some of the big stuff is the only way he can help me, but it's scary.
Maybe I am projecting because when i tell him what i hear him saying, he says he's not saying that, he just wants me to look at it from another pov. I don't mind the questions when he makes me realize stuff, it's just the questions where i feel he's judging me, and i know he's not.
Not trusting is hard, and you know what? i didn't even realize that i didn't trust. it's so much a part of me, i didn't know how much i keep ppl away. that's not what i want, i just don't know how to change it. The not laughing for too long part is so true for me too. I feel like a drag with him more than anywhere else, and i feel boring. I love to laugh, and i'd love for him to see more of that side of me. I also feel incredibly immature, and I hate that.
You're right, i think faith is a gift given to us in the small things. I hope you're right, i hope it comes back. i don't want to rob our kids of that experience, it was such a big thing when we were homeschooling them.
you're probably right about the scars. I feel like everyone can see all of it - the rape, my father hitting me, my mom rejecting me, the stuff that happened afterwards at school, the yucky body feelings, the nightmares... It would be nice to be able to implant better memories, wouldn't it?
I'll have to think of what it would be like to put this behind me and move on. i've been thinking i need to sort this out in writing, and hearing the replies has given me a lot of things to think about, a lot of things to write about.
Thanks daisy, i appreciate your support.
fw
Posted by fairywings on December 15, 2005, at 11:14:26
In reply to Re: starting to feel the pain (long ) **triggers*** » fairywings, posted by annierose on December 15, 2005, at 5:24:40
Thanks annie,but see, that's part of the problem. i feel like he wants me to quit talking, and start moving on. it gets so confusing. one week talk, the next week move on. maybe it's projecting, like daisy said.
fw
Posted by fairywings on December 15, 2005, at 11:55:31
In reply to Re: starting to feel the pain (long ) **triggers*** » fairywings, posted by Tamar on December 15, 2005, at 4:18:55
Hi Tamar,
it does hurt a lot, and it's not easy for me to say that to him or anyone. i have to learn that i guess. i'm getting better w/my husband, it's only taken me 20 years! ; )
My problem is i just feel like everyone can see the scars, knows what they are, and can see everything attached to them. I know it's irrational, but that's the way my mind works.
I remember daisy's post, where she was driving down the street, thinking about how things "should be". Wouldn't it be nice if the world was more like babble, and people understood, and were accepting. I know some wouldn't judge, but think about sitting in a room full of moms, in a group, and you're the only one with visible scars, makes me squirm! ; )
You're right Tamar, the scars are very symbolic, but more symbolic of everyone seeing, knowing what happened, and knowing how shameful i feel, being able to "see" everything. it feels very exposed and very vulnerable. i do still feel responsible bec. of the way my parents reacted. i know i'm not responsible, but at some level i must still feel i am. confusing, and hard to sort out.
Sometimes i feel lonely, and sometimes i long for close friendships, but it got to the point where i felt so threatened when i was in social situations, that i just gave up. It was just this year that i made the conscious decision not to be out there anymore.
I would love to be able to believe no one has the right to judge me, and i've fought to feel that for so long, but it just never happens. If i knew how to get to that point i'd jump all over it, in a heartbeat.
know they don’t know what they’re talking about.The only time anyone has said anything was in a healthcare setting - you know getting i.v.'s, checking blood pressure, testing reflexes; it's hard to explain. Once, when I had surgery, they put me in this room with a window in the door. I asked why the window was in the door, and the nurse told me they put ppl in that room if they think there's a risk of self harm, and mind you this was a good 10+ years after. I hate that! I love your response, “What are those holes in your brain?” but i guess “Mind your own damn business" might be easier for me to remember.
I know it's a stretch for me to think he dreaded our appt. and didn't want to see me, but i am hurt that there's no way he could have been as prepared as he normally would have been since he didn't know i was coming. I'm just glad he didn't book anyone else. That would have been it for me, I would have quit on the spot. This is where my immature feelings kick in. I know he's busy, i know it wasn't his fault - it was a screw up by the staff, and those things happen, but i still find myself whining in my own head. i think part of that is that he's cancelled 3 times in the past 2 months. Not anything that could've been prevented, but still, it gets my irrational wheels turning, you know?
He's a talker and a storyteller. I love to hear what he has to say bec. he is fascinating, BUT
time is money, and next year i'm going to have to pay big bucks to see him. I don't know how to politely tell him a bit of it is fine, but not most of the session. my old T used to cut our appts. short by 10 to 15 min., and i felt like he wasn't really interested. this t never does that, and i feel like he does care. I guess it's a tradeoff.I think you hit the nail on the head about the online friendship. he does find it significant that i avoid IRL friendships, but this one feels safe because there's no face to face. i'd love to feel i could trust, i'd love to have close, deep, meaningful friendship that will span decades. i don't even know what it feels like to trust. i thought for a long time what i feel is just what relationships feel like, but never understood why things didn't evolve like they do for other ppl. i hope i get to that point, i hope therapy can get me there.
Thanks Tamar, geeze, if i had your ability to turn problems inside out, i wouldn't even need therapy!
fw
Posted by Damos on December 15, 2005, at 16:54:31
In reply to starting to feel the pain (long ) **triggers***, posted by fairywings on December 14, 2005, at 20:19:22
Pathetic. You? You're kidding me right? You are so awesome to me. Amazing, incredibe, wonderful. What you have done, are doing is hard, really, really hard. And you are doing so well.
My dear friend Tamar was right on about the scars. It's what you think that's important. Peoples judgements only serve to reveal their prejudices, fears and parts of themselves they deny. In aboriginal culture ritual scaring was used to mark rites of passage, initiation and attainment of higher standing within the tribe. So maybe in a sense they are badges of honour that show you have been truly tested and survived and are someone to be respected and reckoned with.
All I can say about on-line friendships is that the ones I have developed here have helped me enormously IRL.
You should be really proud of yourself Fairywing, really proud.
(((((Fairywings)))))
Posted by fairywings on December 15, 2005, at 20:57:23
In reply to Re: starting to feel the pain (long ) **triggers*** » fairywings, posted by Damos on December 15, 2005, at 16:54:31
> Pathetic. You? You're kidding me right? You are so awesome to me. Amazing, incredibe, wonderful. What you have done, are doing is hard, really, really hard. And you are doing so well.
Ahhh, you are too sweet. I guess our own inner demons can sometimes be worse than anything anyone could inflict on us.
>
> My dear friend Tamar was right on about the scars. It's what you think that's important. So maybe in a sense they are badges of honour that show you have been truly tested and survived and are someone to be respected and reckoned with.sure wish I could get to see it that way. i met a guy once who had scars, and refused to do anything about him because he didn't want to forget what he'd overcome. it was so foreign to me to think that way, and i was impressed with him, but i've never gotten there.
>
> You should be really proud of yourself Fairywing, really proud.Thanks, for the hugs, and I really appreciate what you've said. I'll hold onto that, when I feel really bad. And I agree babble friendships help me a lot, don't know what I'd do w/o.
fw
>
> (((((Fairywings)))))
Posted by cricket on December 16, 2005, at 13:23:03
In reply to starting to feel the pain (long ) **triggers***, posted by fairywings on December 14, 2005, at 20:19:22
((((Fairywings))))
Hmm. I can relate a lot to what you say. I think it was very similar with my T for a very long time. I want to comment more. But I need to print out and think.
Posted by cricket on December 16, 2005, at 15:58:08
In reply to starting to feel the pain (long ) **triggers***, posted by fairywings on December 14, 2005, at 20:19:22
Fairywings,
I am glad that you are posting again. I know that I also have my periods when I can’t be on Babble. But I missed you and it’s good to see you back.
If you remember my posts in the past, you know that my therapy relationship has been very difficult and tumultuous. Reading over your posts, it struck that I have felt and still feel in some cases many of the same things you’re talking about.
So I thought maybe I would pull out some of your points and detail how it’s either changed or is still the same for me. I hope that’s okay.
“So his forgetting our appt. could mean he didn’t want to see me, couldn’t it?...”I felt the same ways many times. I felt like my therapist hated to see me, like he dreaded our appointments. One time he came out to the waiting room and he had such a look of dismay on his face that I thought I must be the worst part of his week. And I thought that of course he would. I have nothing intelligent to say. Laugh? I never even smiled or relaxed in there. Who wouldn’t hate to see me?
But then it occurred to me well that’s my feelings. But what’s the proof? He never once suggested that I begin to think about termination. He accommodated a reduced payment. He never once suggested that maybe I work with someone else. He showed up even when he was sick.
So perhaps that look of dismay was just concern. And maybe your therapist’s forgetting is not really forgetting because he dreads seeing you but something either much more innocuous or even positive.
“he couldn’t even remember how many kids I have…”Yeah, my therapist kept forgetting my son’s age. Considering it’s the only child I have and the only IRL relationship I have in the world I thought he should be able to remember his age, but he couldn’t.
Now that seems very forgivable since I realized he was so absorbed in what was going on inside me. He can remember things I said years ago – books, dreams.
Perhaps if your T is remembering other things, this might seem more forgiveable.
“he also spent the first ½ hour giving me a history lesson, it was interesting, but nothing to do with me”At the beginning of my therapy, my T used to talk a lot too. He’d talk almost the whole session about psychological theory, philosophy, books.
I have to say I loved it. Those were my favorite sessions. I could watch him and feel comfortable. Being his audience was just the right of level of attention that I could comfortably stand from him.
Now he just doesn’t do it anymore. He’s ready to go off on a tangent and all of a sudden he will stop himself, right in mid-sentence sometimes. Just shut his mouth.
Could it be that your therapist was just trying to make you more comfortable? Trying to build a connection by sharing some of his thoughts? I understand that it might be different for you because your # of sessions are limited and mine were not.
“he finds it “compelling” that I consider her a friend, when I have very few IRL friends”Yeah, definitely one of my problems too. And for the longest time I thought my therapist was critical of that too. He would always say things like connection with other people is the “most basic human drive.” Then he would complain about my reticence with him and I felt like he was saying that I was incapable of a human connection, which is perhaps what I thought but it hurt me deeply that he would think the same.
But then just recently he said to me, “I think you are being quiet because you are about to find your voice, the voice that is uniquely yours and that you never had a chance to develop, and soon you are just going to start to speak to people. It’s like when a kid is about to take this huge developmental leap they get all quiet and you worry and wonder what is going on but underneath something major is happening.” And that felt very sweet and not critical at all.
“Not always, but i sometimes feel like i'm SO immature. i don't want to be seen that way at all, but when we're talking about my issues, and i pull away, i feel like a child. i hate that. does anyone else feel that way? why does that happen? he must think i'm a real brat.”This is what I was responding yes, yes, yes to in my post. Sorry about that. I didn’t mean to be cryptic. But I have felt the same way in therapy so many times. Sometimes I would talk in a little girl voice, which should have been easier for me to accept because of my parts, but I hated when I talked like that. Yet for the life of me I couldn’t stop it. I wondered how he could stand me. Then I would feel ashamed and withdraw and give monosyllabic answers. I did this for years.
Now it’s just stopped. I have no idea why, but it’s been months since I’ve spoken like that. I still don’t talk much but it’s not the same sullen silence, not the same immature kid with a chip on her shoulder.
And my T seems no more surprised that it stopped than that I was like that to begin with. I suspect your T is the same. I know it’s hard though. It’s hard to think of yourself as a mature, intelligent woman and yet feel yourself acting like a bratty kid.
I don’t know if any of this helps, fairywings. I hope something does. I know it’s hard. I wrote so long because I think maybe our Ts styles might be similar. And I know for myself, a nice gentle, what I call mushy style, just wouldn’t have worked for me in the long run. In the short run, it might have been nice, easier. But in the long run, I think I needed something a bit harder to push against and that’s what I found.
Please post more and let us know how it’s going.
Posted by fairywings on December 17, 2005, at 16:19:43
In reply to Re: starting to feel the pain (long ) **triggers*** » fairywings, posted by cricket on December 16, 2005, at 15:58:08
> Fairywings,
>
> I am glad that you are posting again. I know that I also have my periods when I can’t be on Babble. But I missed you and it’s good to see you back.Hi cricket, thanks, that's really nice of you to say! ; ) yeah, there are so many times i shouldn't be on, and i get on, and i avoid doing other things. but i really like the babble connection.
> I have felt and still feel in some cases many of the same things you’re talking about.
Yeah, i guess we must have some of the same issues.
> I felt the same ways many times. I felt like my therapist hated to see me, like he dreaded our appointments. One time he came out to the waiting room and he had such a look of dismay on his face that I thought I must be the worst part of his week. And I thought that of course he would. I have nothing intelligent to say. Laugh? I never even smiled or relaxed in there. Who wouldn’t hate to see me?
LOL, oh we are TOO much alike! Somehow we have to convince ourselves that we're the highlight of their week, and why wouldn't we be?! I think you made a good point when you talked about how you were in therapy. I guess that's why we're there, right? I feel like I'm so dismal in there, and that's not how I am a lot of times, but I think he must think I am all the time, and I hate that.
>
> But then it occurred to me well that’s my feelings. But what’s the proof? He never once suggested that I begin to think about termination. He accommodated a reduced payment. He never once suggested that maybe I work with someone else. He showed up even when he was sick.Yeah, you're right, mine has never made any indication, but he doesn't show up when he's sick, which is fine with me, I don't want to catch anything.
> So perhaps that look of dismay was just concern. And maybe your therapist’s forgetting is not really forgetting because he dreads seeing you but something either much more innocuous or even positive.
It was a paperwork screwup. Somebody put my paperwork in a stack with another T, so he didn't know I was coming. My big problem with it was that he couldn't have been prepared because he didn't know I was coming. I know it wasn't his fault.
> Perhaps if your T is remembering other things, this might seem more forgiveable.
Yep, he rarely forgets stuff about my husband. Probably wonders how in the heck he puts up with me! ; ) Just kidding.
> At the beginning of my therapy, my T used to talk a lot too. He’d talk almost the whole session about psychological theory, philosophy, books.
> I have to say I loved it. Those were my favorite sessions. I could watch him and feel comfortable. Being his audience was just the right of level of attention that I could comfortably stand from him.Yep, I love it too, could listen to him all day 24/7, wish he could go on and on as long as he wanted. I hope he doesn't stop sharing, but i want to feel like i'm covering some ground, i guess that's what bothers me.
> Now he just doesn’t do it anymore. He’s ready to go off on a tangent and all of a sudden he will stop himself, right in mid-sentence sometimes. Just shut his mouth.Hmmm, I wonder why. Do you know why he stopped?
> Could it be that your therapist was just trying to make you more comfortable? Trying to build a connection by sharing some of his thoughts?
Yep, I'm sure you're right here. I"m sure he could see how uptight I was and was just trying to get me to relax.
> “he finds it “compelling” that I consider her a friend, when I have very few IRL friends”
>
> Yeah, definitely one of my problems too. >
> But then just recently he said to me, “I think you are being quiet because you are about to find your voice, the voice that is uniquely yours and that you never had a chance to develop, and soon you are just going to start to speak to people. And that felt very sweet and not critical at all.That's really cool. Have you found your voice? I"m sure it's all about getting us to be more adaptable, and not that we're being criticized, and i guess some of it is internal - I know i should be more connected IRL, but i'm not.
> This is what I was responding yes, yes, yes to in my post. Sorry about that. I didn’t mean to be cryptic. But I have felt the same way in therapy so many times. I wondered how he could stand me. Then I would feel ashamed and withdraw and give monosyllabic answers. I did this for years.
Not cryptic at all, I understood that you were identifying. I tend to give yes/no answers a lot.
>
> Now it’s just stopped. I have no idea why, but it’s been months since I’ve spoken like that. I still don’t talk much but it’s not the same sullen silence, not the same immature kid with a chip on her shoulder.Is it possible you've integrated that part of you and that's why the voice is gone?
> And my T seems no more surprised that it stopped than that I was like that to begin with. I suspect your T is the same. I know it’s hard though. It’s hard to think of yourself as a mature, intelligent woman and yet feel yourself acting like a bratty kid.
Yep, I wonder how many ppl feel this way in therapy, like a kid instead of an adult. you know sometime I'd love to sit and see who comes and goes from his office, to see who else he's dealing with, their attitudes, and behaviors, and maybe it would make me feel better....or worse! LOL
> I don’t know if any of this helps, fairywings. I hope something does.
Thanks cricket, it does. you know it helps just to know you're not the only one with the feelings, the behaviors, or the thoughts you have. I don't feel so alone in my weirdness.
fairywings
This is the end of the thread.
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