Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 559414

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dream about T

Posted by Shortelise on September 25, 2005, at 11:58:55

I am in his office with him, his new office I've yet to see, and he is sitting behind a desk. He is very fat, his head fat, his body long and fat, his legs fat but very short, sharply tapered and with little tiny tiny feet. I wonder that he can walk. He is deformed. (In actuality he is slim.)

Then I am in the hall outside of his office, can't remember leaving, can't remember the end of the session, want to talk with him for a few minutes, so I wait. I look in the outer office, there are other psychiatrists there, but he is not there, and the door to his office is closed.

I wait in the hall on a bed, taking out my jewellry and spreading it on the bed, find more jewellry between the bed and the wall, silver chains and charms. Some people come and lie on the bed next to mine, also waiting for something, they have a dog that plays, plays with me, bites me playfully on the face and head and I am afraid, I scream, my T comes, is annoyed that I have disturbed him, looks at the jewellry arrayed on the bed with impatient disdain. I try to tell him, try to explain that I couldn't remember leaving, and that there are things I need to tell him, to talk with him about. He is dismissive, thinks this a ploy for attention.

 

Re: dream about T

Posted by Angela2 on September 25, 2005, at 15:38:15

In reply to dream about T, posted by Shortelise on September 25, 2005, at 11:58:55

Hey ShortE. have you learned anything from this dream? Has it taught you anything about how you feel about your relationship with your t? It seems like you kinda feel like he doesn't care about you when you want his attention. Maybe you could bring this up in therapy?

 

Re: dream about T

Posted by fairywings on September 25, 2005, at 16:04:22

In reply to dream about T, posted by Shortelise on September 25, 2005, at 11:58:55

Maybe sitting behind the desk means you feel removed from him?

Maybe being in the hall, not remembering the end of session, wanting to talk to him means you feel he isn't there for you when you need him? His "door is closed to you".

Waiting on the bed might mean you want a closer relationship, or want more than he's giving you?

good luck, does your T interpret dreams?
fw

 

Re: dream about T Ľ Shortelise

Posted by Tamar on September 25, 2005, at 16:52:28

In reply to dream about T, posted by Shortelise on September 25, 2005, at 11:58:55

Hi ShortE,

Interesting dream!

> I am in his office with him, his new office I've yet to see, and he is sitting behind a desk. He is very fat, his head fat, his body long and fat, his legs fat but very short, sharply tapered and with little tiny tiny feet. I wonder that he can walk. He is deformed. (In actuality he is slim.)

If thereís a desk between you, it means you canít see much of him (and he canít see much of you). In one way that protects you, but at the same time youíre not able to be fully open with him. If he seems fat and deformed in the dream despite being slim in real life, then perhaps you might be worrying that heís deceiving you in some way.

> Then I am in the hall outside of his office, can't remember leaving, can't remember the end of the session, want to talk with him for a few minutes, so I wait. I look in the outer office, there are other psychiatrists there, but he is not there, and the door to his office is closed.

If you want him but heís not there and his door is closed, perhaps this is about termination fears?

> I wait in the hall on a bed, taking out my jewellry and spreading it on the bed, find more jewellry between the bed and the wall, silver chains and charms. Some people come and lie on the bed next to mine, also waiting for something, they have a dog that plays, plays with me, bites me playfully on the face and head and I am afraid, I scream, my T comes, is annoyed that I have disturbed him, looks at the jewellry arrayed on the bed with impatient disdain. I try to tell him, try to explain that I couldn't remember leaving, and that there are things I need to tell him, to talk with him about. He is dismissive, thinks this a ploy for attention.

I reckon that the bed together with the jewellery is about how you feel you appear, and your therapistís impatient disdain suggests that you fear he only sees whatís on the surface and doesnít understand fully whatís underneath. The sense of fear when the dog bites you perhaps suggests a fear of being symbolically bitten (hurt) by your therapist. Especially if youíve annoyed him in your dreamÖ

It seems to me that thereís a lot in this dream about exposing yourself emotionally and your fears about how your therapist might react. I wonder whether you feel itís hard to trust him at the moment.

What did you make of the dream?

Tamar

 

hm... Ľ Shortelise

Posted by Shortelise on September 26, 2005, at 13:49:20

In reply to dream about T, posted by Shortelise on September 25, 2005, at 11:58:55

Thanks for the responses, ANgela, Fairwings, and Tamar.

He is ugly and misshapen, only just able to function physically. What does that mean?? Is that how I feel about myself- a little in-dream projection of myself onto him? I am not in fact obese, but I am plump, I have been having trouble with my feet, nothing much, just aches and pains. Do I feel myself to be ugly and deformed by the weight I carry? Yes, I guess I do, I don't see myself as a sexual being because of it. I can't use my sexuality to navigate my relationship with him as I used always to do with men - do I want to?

I can't remember the end of the session, and I feel very anxious about it, need to resolve something, need to remember. He is already with another patient. This to me is reality - he is only available to me when I am in the room with him, and for an occasional phone call, but otherwise he is ... his own, not mine. When I leave his room, unless I scream, metaphorically, I don't get his attention.

The jewelry on the bed - is that my sexuality - something he dismisses, something we haven't much discussed? My youthful beauty and sexual attraction were a great "treasure" and a big source of power to me. Do I call attention to it, only to have it rejected?

I often dream of finding jewellry.

 

Re: hm... Ľ Shortelise

Posted by Tamar on September 26, 2005, at 14:41:22

In reply to hm... Ľ Shortelise, posted by Shortelise on September 26, 2005, at 13:49:20

Itís good to hear what you make of the dream.

> He is ugly and misshapen, only just able to function physically. What does that mean?? Is that how I feel about myself- a little in-dream projection of myself onto him? I am not in fact obese, but I am plump, I have been having trouble with my feet, nothing much, just aches and pains. Do I feel myself to be ugly and deformed by the weight I carry? Yes, I guess I do, I don't see myself as a sexual being because of it. I can't use my sexuality to navigate my relationship with him as I used always to do with men - do I want to?

That does make sense: that his appearance is a reflection of how you see yourself. Do you feel itís just your therapist you canít use your sexuality with, or do you feel that way with all men at the moment?

> I can't remember the end of the session, and I feel very anxious about it, need to resolve something, need to remember. He is already with another patient. This to me is reality - he is only available to me when I am in the room with him, and for an occasional phone call, but otherwise he is ... his own, not mine. When I leave his room, unless I scream, metaphorically, I don't get his attention.

That also makes a lot of sense. Itís interesting, I think, that you donít remember leaving at the end of the session but that youíre certain things are unresolved. In dreams, of course, the scene changes swiftly from one thing to another. Itís not usually distressing in the dream. But in your dream it is distressing because the scene change leaves things unresolved. The sense of not being finished, and of being unable to remember the end of the session, seems to be pretty central to the dream.

> The jewelry on the bed - is that my sexuality - something he dismisses, something we haven't much discussed? My youthful beauty and sexual attraction were a great "treasure" and a big source of power to me. Do I call attention to it, only to have it rejected?
>
> I often dream of finding jewellry.

I think your own interpretation is usually the right one. If jewellery is something that you feel symbolises your sexuality and beauty then youíre probably right. I think it can sometimes symbolise love, so it makes sense that you think of your sexuality and other things that can make you loveable.

If you havenít discussed it much, is that because you havenít wanted to? Have you felt inhibited (like nearly everyone on the planet) about talking about sexuality in therapy? Or is it that you feel your therapist dismisses your sexuality by not engaging with you on a sexual level? I think therapy is quite difficult for people who are used to engaging on a sexual level a lot of the time; if therapists donít respond as men who are feeling attracted I think it makes the client feel terribly unattractive. I think there should be room for some very mild flirting, even if it can't go any farther!

Are you going to talk to your therapist about this dream?

 

Re: hm... Ľ Tamar

Posted by Shortelise on September 26, 2005, at 22:09:17

In reply to Re: hm... Ľ Shortelise, posted by Tamar on September 26, 2005, at 14:41:22

Thanks Tamar! You ask great questions! I'll answer them, too, to keep this exploration going.

It's not only with him that I feel unattractive, but with all men. I no longer use my sexuality as I once did. I never flirt with my T, would be embarrassed if I did so on an unconscious level. I rarely flirt with anyone. I am afaid of being pathetic.

Jewellry as love. There's a concept. Maybe I do have love and sex all confused, though not as far as my relationship with my husband goes. Do I feel that I can't be loved by a man without an element of sexuality to things? Mebbe. Di I feel that my T can't care about me because there is no overt sexuality to our relationship. Hm. I don't know.

We have only very rarely talked about sexual things. I do feel inhibited, but I haven't talked about it mostly because it's a can of worms I would just as soon leave unopened. Things are just fine, I am not unhappy. I just don't want to go there.


Yes, I will tell this dream to my T, if I have time. I see him once every three weeks, my entire family is descending on me in October, I have heaps of work - very high stress as it's for a person I haven't worked with before - and because of that work I've had to cancel my next appointment. I think there may be more on my palte to talk about come the end of October when, I am afraid, my next appointment with him will be.

Thanks again Tamar.

ShortE

 

Re: hm... Ľ Shortelise

Posted by Tamar on September 27, 2005, at 5:19:40

In reply to Re: hm... Ľ Tamar, posted by Shortelise on September 26, 2005, at 22:09:17

> It's not only with him that I feel unattractive, but with all men. I no longer use my sexuality as I once did. I never flirt with my T, would be embarrassed if I did so on an unconscious level. I rarely flirt with anyone. I am afaid of being pathetic.

I used to use my sexuality all the time too. But now I only flirt when Iíve been drinking and then I feel really embarrassed the next day. I never used to feel embarrassed about using my sexuality. I donít know if itís because Iím older, or fatter, or because Iíve been married for several years. But Iím afraid people will think Iím disgusting.

> Jewellry as love. There's a concept. Maybe I do have love and sex all confused, though not as far as my relationship with my husband goes.

Well, love and sex quite often go together :)

> Do I feel that I can't be loved by a man without an element of sexuality to things?

Thatís a really interesting question. I have a few gay friends who love me and thereís no sexual element to it. But I find it really hard to imagine being loved by a straight man without some sexual aspect to it. Or maybe itís that I *want* a sexual dimension in my relationships with straight men. Maybe I feel that a completely platonic love is somehow a rejection of my sexuality, in which case, perhaps I feel my sexuality is such a fundamental part of me that I want it to be accepted (or embraced!) in my relationships with men. Is it like that for you?

> Mebbe. Di I feel that my T can't care about me because there is no overt sexuality to our relationship. Hm. I don't know.

I find this a struggle. It seems to me that any attempt to deny the sexual element in a therapeutic relationship is doomed to failure. I think it would make more sense to acknowledge that there are two sexualities in the room. I donít think there should be an inappropriate focus on it, but pretending that itís not there or that it doesnít matter is pointless, I think. Certainly the therapist needs to be sexually unavailable to the client, and maternal or paternal transferences can complicate the relationship. But I wonder if sexual unavailability can become a performance in therapy, and that it can draw attention to itself and undermine its purpose. In other words, pretending that sexuality is irrelevant just makes it more obvious. I think Iím rambling nowÖ

> We have only very rarely talked about sexual things. I do feel inhibited, but I haven't talked about it mostly because it's a can of worms I would just as soon leave unopened. Things are just fine, I am not unhappy. I just don't want to go there.

Fair enough.

> Yes, I will tell this dream to my T, if I have time. I see him once every three weeks, my entire family is descending on me in October, I have heaps of work - very high stress as it's for a person I haven't worked with before - and because of that work I've had to cancel my next appointment. I think there may be more on my palte to talk about come the end of October when, I am afraid, my next appointment with him will be.

Thatís a long time to wait! Yeah, you might find you want to talk about your family visit rather than your dream when you next see him. But I hope you do have a little time to talk about the dream because it seems quite significant!

I hope your work goes well.

Tamar

 

Re: hm...

Posted by cricket on September 27, 2005, at 8:14:48

In reply to Re: hm... Ľ Shortelise, posted by Tamar on September 27, 2005, at 5:19:40

ShortE and Tamar,

I hope you don't mind me jumping in here too. This is a topic (my T and my sexuality) that I have thought about a lot.

Before I started therapy, I had never had a relationship, or even an interaction for that matter, except forced work ones, with a man that didn't involve sex. From step father on down.

Then when I first started working with my therapist,and it wasn't formal therapy at first, it was a one on one class, I was astonished, dismayed, insulted, angry, terrified that he didn't express any sexual interest in me. It was something I had never experienced before.

One of the first readings he assigned was a translation of poems by buddhist women from back around the Buddha's time.

One of the women poets is a prostitute, born into prositution (mother was a prositute) and she tries to seduce a monk. The monk responds very negatively basically saying get away from me you bag of pus, you vile smelling thing. I don't remember the exact words but that was the gist of it.

The prostitute didn't recoil in shame or even get angry. Instead she comes back and asks the monk to teach her the ways of the Buddha and she works hard and becomes enlightened.

The editor/translator of the book says that this shows the misogyny prevelant during that time, how even a monk belittles a woman like that and the woman just accepts his words.

I completely disagreed with the editor and I went back to my T shaken to the core by this. I was in tears. For the first time in this woman's life, a man tells her she is more than just a body, she is more than an object to be used for sex. And this editor calls that misogyny. And then the woman changes her whole life, she is completely transformed. What difference does it make that the monk used harsh words? He obviously knew the exact right ones to use.

My therapist just nodded wisely.

And after that I started therapy with my T.

So three years later, yes I still worry that I am not attractive to my T. And if I'm not attractive how can he stand to be in the room with me much less listen to me?

But deep down inside, I am so glad he ignored, or even "disdained" as I think ShortE said, my seduction. Because he said to me you are more than this show, more than an attractive body.

And maybe ShortE that's what your T is saying in the dream. You are so much more any adornment, any jewelry. And as much as you want to show him that and have him approve you have so much more that is so much more valuable.

Does any of that make sense?

I also agree with Tamar that there is definitely a sexual element to therapy. And at times there is an electric charge in that room between us. But right now it doesn't feel so much like let's take our clothes off and do it sexuality but more a desire to sit inside him and feel warm and comforted and have him sit inside me and say it's okay in here.

 

Re: hm... Ľ cricket

Posted by 10derHeart on September 27, 2005, at 8:31:50

In reply to Re: hm..., posted by cricket on September 27, 2005, at 8:14:48


>>...but more a desire to sit inside him and feel warm and comforted and have him sit inside me and say it's okay in here.<<

wow, cricket, the way you expressed that is amazingly beautiful. I just keep reading it over and over. It gives me such a warm mental image, I can sort of see your [my?] T. looking all around "in here" and smiling, and thinking, "yeah, this is nice, think I'll stay a while."

Thank you for sharing this stuff with us. Thank you so much.

 

Re: hm... Ľ cricket

Posted by Tamar on September 27, 2005, at 11:10:36

In reply to Re: hm..., posted by cricket on September 27, 2005, at 8:14:48

Great post, cricket!

Interesting story about the prostitute and the monk. And your disagreement with the editor of the book makes a lot of sense.

Itís extremely interesting to me that people Ė ancient writers and modern interpreters Ė associate womenís seductiveness with prostitution, because I think most prostitutes arenít doing it for the sex. Maybe the editor thought the prostitute was approaching the monk with a view to gratifying her sexual impulses, whereas your interpretation seems to recognise that her use of sex wasnít about her own sexual fulfilment. And I think thatís an important distinction because I think women quite often use their sexuality in ways that are socially prescribed but arenít in their own interests (e.g. flirting with unattractive men to be polite, or sleeping with people they donít want to sleep with because of various social pressures). I think women are expected to behave in a sexual way, to be attractive, to massage menís egosÖ and because itís expected we sometimes do it, even if itís not in our best interests.

I guess Iíd like to live in a world where sexuality is expressed in a way thatís open and honest and where thereís no pressure, instead of as a cultural imperative that is both applauded and feared.

> I also agree with Tamar that there is definitely a sexual element to therapy. And at times there is an electric charge in that room between us. But right now it doesn't feel so much like let's take our clothes off and do it sexuality but more a desire to sit inside him and feel warm and comforted and have him sit inside me and say it's okay in here.

I love this description! Yeah, thatís exactly the sort of sexual element I like. I experienced something like that in one session and it was great. Like 10der said, I just keep reading your words over and over.

Tamar

 

Cricket Ľ cricket

Posted by Shortelise on September 27, 2005, at 11:39:53

In reply to Re: hm..., posted by cricket on September 27, 2005, at 8:14:48


What a beautiful, beautiful piece of writing that was, Cricket.

Thank you so so much.

(((cricket)))

ShortE


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