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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 34 to 58 of 73. Go back in thread:
Posted by floatingbridge on September 11, 2010, at 23:29:11
In reply to Go away bad thoughts, go AWAY!, posted by Maxime on September 11, 2010, at 21:35:59
Maxime, pardon my bluntness in advance. We know some depressions are situational. And situation can affect mood positively or negatively. Then there is depression existing independent of circumstance.
I don't expect you to only have happy thoughts because of your new employment situation. Your chamge of fortune may relieve stress and frustration in many areas of your life, but
I wouldn't be a very good friend to expect your change of fortune to stop all those negative thoughts. I have an awful, awfully critical inner voice that talks to me in ways that are unimaginably cruel and hurtful. This voice even uses good things (like any success or pleasure) against me. It's very sad, really. And if I was strong enough to see the humor, kinda funny.
Like a highly dysfunctional parent in some black-humored sitcom.So, no, I don't expect those thoughts to go away. I accept you the way you are (online), and I know that you are not those thoughts. Maybe, over time, you can find more ways to diminish them.
Getting out and doing something you do
well.... I hope you are blessed with good, appreciative coworkers. And that you
drink some of that appreciation in.(Now if I could do that myself....)
And tell those thoughts you've got some friends at PB who would beg to differ... :)
Posted by SLS on September 12, 2010, at 5:08:27
In reply to Go away bad thoughts, go AWAY!, posted by Maxime on September 11, 2010, at 21:35:59
> Despite getting a job, I have to be honest and say that my thoughts are still very dark. Tonight is not a good night. I'm still thinking of suicide and wanting to kill myself. But how can that be? I should be thankful and relieved that I got that job.
>
> I hate this so much. I wish I didn't have so many bad thoughts.I hope you understand that this is the depression talking. You would have these thoughts even if you had won the lottery. In my opinion, CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy) can be helpful, even if you are suffering from a biogenic depression. It really is not a singular answer for your predicament. However, CBT can be a good coping tool that helps you evaluate the negative thoughts when they arise and perform reality checks that challenges their validity. CBT can help you deal with negative thoughts while you are still searching for an effective biological therapy.
By the way, how long did the Parnate work for before it pooped-out?
- Scott
Posted by floatingbridge on September 12, 2010, at 11:58:27
In reply to Re: Go away bad thoughts, go AWAY! » Maxime, posted by SLS on September 12, 2010, at 5:08:27
Hi Scott :)
DBT has some good techniques, too. Of course, implementing them is another challenge :(
Distress tolerance helps me.
Posted by Maxime on September 12, 2010, at 16:49:51
In reply to Re: Go away bad thoughts, go AWAY! » Maxime, posted by floatingbridge on September 11, 2010, at 23:29:11
You are right FB. Actually hearing from you that it is normal to feel this way makes it a little easier. I am trying not to put myself down as much for feeling bad.
I have worked in various Provinces and States hoping that the change would change my mood. It never did. It just followed me around.
Posted by Maxime on September 12, 2010, at 16:55:33
In reply to Re: Go away bad thoughts, go AWAY! » Maxime, posted by SLS on September 12, 2010, at 5:08:27
> > Despite getting a job, I have to be honest and say that my thoughts are still very dark. Tonight is not a good night. I'm still thinking of suicide and wanting to kill myself. But how can that be? I should be thankful and relieved that I got that job.
> >
> > I hate this so much. I wish I didn't have so many bad thoughts.
>
> I hope you understand that this is the depression talking. You would have these thoughts even if you had won the lottery. In my opinion, CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy) can be helpful, even if you are suffering from a biogenic depression. It really is not a singular answer for your predicament. However, CBT can be a good coping tool that helps you evaluate the negative thoughts when they arise and perform reality checks that challenges their validity. CBT can help you deal with negative thoughts while you are still searching for an effective biological therapy.
>
> By the way, how long did the Parnate work for before it pooped-out?
>
>
> - Scott
>
>Scott, I know that CBT would help a lot. I really need to see a pyschologist for a few years. But I can't afford it and psychologists are not part of Canada's health plan.
I started the Parnate in October 2009 and it helped, but it only brought me to about 75 percent okay which is really good enough for me to function.
Every went wrong in March of this year when my mom was diagnosed with cancer and had surgery. I was under so much stress and my still hasn't come back to what is was in 2009. I don't think the Parnate is pooping out on me ... I think life is just sh*tt*ng on my head all the time that it's hard to get up again.
Thanks for your response Scott.
Posted by Maxime on September 12, 2010, at 16:56:46
In reply to Re: Go away bad thoughts, go AWAY! » SLS, posted by floatingbridge on September 12, 2010, at 11:58:27
FB, I did a 9 month DBT course two years ago. I should really look at the material again.
Posted by floatingbridge on September 12, 2010, at 18:08:11
In reply to Re: Go away bad thoughts, go AWAY! » floatingbridge, posted by Maxime on September 12, 2010, at 16:56:46
> FB, I did a 9 month DBT course two years ago. I should really look at the material again.
Me, too. Was just wondering where my *mood disorder* book stash was. Sometimes I put them away, pretending I'm done with them.After I wrote above, I had a night of endless, icky dreams about my family and blah, blah, blah. Amazingly, I woke up in a decent mood. So, for me, that is
an improvement. The dreams, the childhood, the hpa axis dysfunction, the self-negating thoughts will always be
part of my geography. Another day, I'll wake up in a low mood....Sometimes, touchy about warfare metaphors as I am, I'll call it fighting the good fight.
We can keep on and get some satisfaction in the bargin. I know we can.
Posted by emmanuel98 on September 12, 2010, at 19:26:05
In reply to Re: Go away bad thoughts, go AWAY! » floatingbridge, posted by Maxime on September 12, 2010, at 16:56:46
You can easily buy Marsha Linehan's book on line and at least have some ready suggestions for constructive exercises that will help. It's the next best thing, I guess, to finding a DBT or CBT therapist. I can't beleive the health service doesn't pay for therapy.
Posted by Phillipa on September 12, 2010, at 19:38:29
In reply to Re: Go away bad thoughts, go AWAY!, posted by emmanuel98 on September 12, 2010, at 19:26:05
Is that all Provinces as know a babbler who regularly sees a psychologist through the health care system for CBT?. Quebec I believe. Phillipa
Posted by Maxime on September 12, 2010, at 21:26:04
In reply to Re: Go away bad thoughts, go AWAY!, posted by emmanuel98 on September 12, 2010, at 19:26:05
> You can easily buy Marsha Linehan's book on line and at least have some ready suggestions for constructive exercises that will help. It's the next best thing, I guess, to finding a DBT or CBT therapist. I can't beleive the health service doesn't pay for therapy.
I used to have Linehan's book and I lent it to someone and they never gave it back. They moved so I guess I won't be seeing it again. Maybe I can buy a second hand version off of Amazon. I also have Burn's book on depression with I find helpful. I must pull these books out of the bookcase/
Thank you for the suggestion!
Posted by Maxime on September 12, 2010, at 21:28:57
In reply to Re: Go away bad thoughts, go AWAY!, posted by Phillipa on September 12, 2010, at 19:38:29
> Is that all Provinces as know a babbler who regularly sees a psychologist through the health care system for CBT?. Quebec I believe. Phillipa
Yes, it is in all Provinces. I live in Quebec. Sometimes you can find a therapist who has a sliding fee scale and that can help.
Your friend is probably seeing a therapist through his/her local CLSC where you can get free therapy for 12 weeks only. That won't even touch the surface of my problems.
Posted by Maxime on September 12, 2010, at 21:40:20
In reply to Re: Go away bad thoughts, go AWAY!, posted by Maxime on September 12, 2010, at 21:28:57
There is another book called "The Mindful Way through Depression: Freeing Yourself from Chronic Unhappiness" and it even comes with a CD to guide you.
I have so many books on depression that it is hard to read them all. It's kind of funny because if anyone looked at my bookcase, they would know that I am a headcase!
It's really hard for me to read when I am feeling this low.
Posted by Phillipa on September 12, 2010, at 21:58:47
In reply to Re: Go away bad thoughts, go AWAY!, posted by Maxime on September 12, 2010, at 21:28:57
Maxie I think you are correct. I didn't know you were so close to the states. How close to Maine? Might find one there but I guess you would have to pay. Phillipa
Posted by Maxime on September 12, 2010, at 22:02:22
In reply to Re: Go away bad thoughts, go AWAY!, posted by Maxime on September 12, 2010, at 21:40:20
Forgot to mention that I spend the entire day in bed. That can't be good. Going from sleeping my days away (to escape) to working a 40 hour a work week is not going to be easy. Sigh. Off to bed now.
Posted by emmanuel98 on September 12, 2010, at 22:59:19
In reply to Re: Go away bad thoughts, go AWAY!, posted by Maxime on September 12, 2010, at 21:40:20
I found that book very unhelpful. The focus was on CBT kinds of distorted thoughts. I am depressed because my boss is mad at me. My husband doesn't do his share of housework and I get depressed. All the examples are like that. If only it were that simple. I get depressed because I do. it's not a cognitive distortion, but a physical shutting down.
> There is another book called "The Mindful Way through Depression: Freeing Yourself from Chronic Unhappiness" and it even comes with a CD to guide you.
>
> I have so many books on depression that it is hard to read them all. It's kind of funny because if anyone looked at my bookcase, they would know that I am a headcase!
>
> It's really hard for me to read when I am feeling this low.
Posted by floatingbridge on September 12, 2010, at 23:43:21
In reply to Re: Go away bad thoughts, go AWAY! » Maxime, posted by emmanuel98 on September 12, 2010, at 22:59:19
Emmanuel98,
I didn't like that book either. Not at all helpful--in fact, irritating for just the examples you cited. Reinforced my feelings of alienation because, as you said, if only my life were that simple.
There is a book that still stands out (for me) amidst a sea of facile (read annoying) mindfulness books: http://
amzn.com/0465085857Thoughts Without A Thinker by Mark Epstein.
About dbt. My best experience (most helpful and enduring) was group dbt. And it was more affordable. Not easy to come by, a group that really clicks, maybe, but another possible avenue of self-help. The lead was able to keep us moving and didn't waste our time :)
Posted by SLS on September 13, 2010, at 5:24:13
In reply to Re: Go away bad thoughts, go AWAY! » emmanuel98, posted by floatingbridge on September 12, 2010, at 23:43:21
Hi FB.
What would you say are the major differences between CBT and DBT?
Thanks.
- Scott
Posted by floatingbridge on September 13, 2010, at 6:20:24
In reply to Re: Go away bad thoughts, go AWAY! » floatingbridge, posted by SLS on September 13, 2010, at 5:24:13
You are up early or skipped it completely. I read nearly 3/4 of that tremendous thread started by olivia12
I decided BP or not, you are one of the most rational thinkers I know (online, of course).
Well, studies tend to say that PBD is much less effected by cbt. A true or let's say straightine cbt practiomer may inadvertently trigger anger. Not that in it self is bad or to be avoided. As the anger (saddness, fear) surfaces, repressed, misplaced and looking maybe a little large for the therapists' one room office. Cbt therapist would very quickly and clearly let the patient know that the alien gob rising up the back of her throat was the clients anger. The client isn't clear at all; she's losong control. Her rage may be partily articulated, and mow could be feeling intense shame and fear.
Oh what am I trying to say? True BP types want, besides a very deep sense of relief, validation and acceptance. Cognitive *distortions* area part of the overall issues.
Funny, Scott, you asking me this. I decided today that I am PBD or at least have lots of traits. A rose by any other name:) Tuesday I tell my pdoc.
I can't believe the strength of this board combined. Bless us one and all.
Posted by SLS on September 13, 2010, at 7:19:56
In reply to Re: Go away bad thoughts, go AWAY! » SLS, posted by floatingbridge on September 13, 2010, at 6:20:24
> I decided BP or not, you are one of the most rational thinkers I know (online, of course).
Thanks, FB. Your kind words mean a lot to me.
I know that DBT was designed specifically for treating borderline personality disorder (BPD). I hope they change the name of this condition in DSM V. Probably not, though.
You are a real positive force on Psycho-Babble.
- Scott
Posted by floatingbridge on September 14, 2010, at 11:10:52
In reply to Re: Go away bad thoughts, go AWAY! » floatingbridge, posted by SLS on September 13, 2010, at 7:19:56
Sincerely meant, and thank you, too.
My sleeping pill wasn't working. There are gazillion typos in my post! Pretty hilarious. I need to stay off the keyboard and stay in bed even if my darn pill doesn't work :)
Posted by Maxime on September 14, 2010, at 19:05:57
In reply to Re: Go away bad thoughts, go AWAY! » floatingbridge, posted by SLS on September 13, 2010, at 7:19:56
DBT is also used to treat eating disoders.
I also know someone who did a DBT programme for depression.
I was suppose to go through DBT again this year, but with my new job, I can't. I will just have to keep on reading my binder.
Posted by Maxime on September 14, 2010, at 21:07:51
In reply to Re: Go away bad thoughts, go AWAY! » SLS, posted by Maxime on September 14, 2010, at 19:05:57
Despite the job, I am still not feeling that great. I really struggle to concentrate at work.
Despite the above, it is cool environment to work in. I can always hear the singing of little children and their laughter. Of course every once in while I hear tears and I think to myself "would it be OK if I joined you?"
The courses start on Monday and I just want to be prepared. I have full ownership over these courses. No one is telling me what to do. I report directly to the Directon. Hmm, can you tell it's not for profit?
I find I am really tired when I wake up and I have a very hard time getting out of bed. Everything hurts.
I also like my uniform ( I am sure I already posted this). I get to wear jeans everyday with one of their staff t-shirts. :)
Posted by Phillipa on September 14, 2010, at 21:36:43
In reply to Still fighting, posted by Maxime on September 14, 2010, at 21:07:51
Maxie I didn't see a post with the Jeans and Shirt. How cool is that? Phillipa
Posted by Maxime on September 14, 2010, at 22:02:18
In reply to Re: Still fighting » Maxime, posted by Phillipa on September 14, 2010, at 21:36:43
> Maxie I didn't see a post with the Jeans and Shirt. How cool is that? Phillipa
It's very cool since I don't fit into ANY of my clothes from last fall. I bought a pair of jeans last week that fit and I am going to go back and buy another. Then I am done! Of course I wear the funkiest of shoes with my jeans! :p
Posted by Phillipa on September 15, 2010, at 19:22:18
In reply to Re: Still fighting » Phillipa, posted by Maxime on September 14, 2010, at 22:02:18
Maxie I wonder what funky is in Canada? Phillipa
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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