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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by sid on February 18, 2002, at 12:46:18
In reply to Diet/Lifestyle change that REALLY help depression, posted by spike4848 on February 18, 2002, at 9:43:55
> Anyone find diet changes or life style changes help with depression.
> I have heard about avoiding aspartame and alcohol, coffee helping depression, avoiding over slepting, omega 3 oil, exercise helping. Anyone have experience with these helping or other advice?
>
> SpikeYes, some things may have helped me; since I was doing many things at once to heal from major depression, it's hard to say what really worked. I used to be a heavy coffee drinker; I stopped drinking coffee, even decaf for 2 years. No colas either. I switched to green tea, which might have all sort of healing properties. It has caffeine in it (teaine), but I was told to avoid coffee altogether, even decaf and drink green tea instead. I was seeing an acupuncturist for my major depression and she's the one who told me that - chinese medicine based suggestions. I did not realize the effect coffee had on me when I drank a lot. Once I stopped, after a while, I drank 1 coffee from time to time, on special occasions. I quickly realized it made me aggressive and over-angry and saw the possible link with my depression, when I was sad and angry at the world all the time. Now I rarely feel anger whereas during my depression it was several times a day.
I avoid oversleeping too, since my depression made me sleep and eat carbs too much. If I oversleep, I'm spacey all day and I don't feel good; I want to get back to bed ASAP - not good. So now I limit my sleep to 7-8 hours per night. Sleeping less than 7 hours a night makes me tired if I do it for several days in a row, but I have no problem otherwise. Sleeping more is bad bad bad. Makes me feel like a big lump.
I used to drink alcohol a lot when I was youger (late teens, early 20's). I didn't realize the effect it could have on my health. Now I drink, one or two drinks in an evening, a few time a month maximum. If I don't feel good (down, depressed mood, PMS), then I don't drink at all. I never get drunk anymore as I've realized my body can't take it the way it used to. I feel like crap the day after, so there's no point in hurting myself that way. So my alcohol habits have changed. I never use illicit drugs, I find I've had enough health problems, I don't want to take unnecessary risks.
As far as other things you mentioned, I'm not sure... I had some residual symptoms of major depression, which subsided last fall, even before I started taking Effexor XR. Concurrently, I did made it a point, for the first time in my life, to eat fish 2-3 time a week (mostly salmon, sole at times, and tuna less often). Perhaps it helped? Is there a link? I'm not sure.
Exercise now makes me feel great too. With Effexor XR my symptoms of dysthymia and anxiety are mostly gone now, and I feel like being physically active. However, when I tried to exercise during major depression, my heart was not into it. I exercised because "I should." Sometimes I'd feel better after exercising, but getting to exercise was agonizing. I'd think about it for days and feel guilty (dang depression!) about not having exercised on day X, etc... So I'm unsure about exercise helping in the midst of major depression... Except I am convinced it is helping me to stay healthy and perhaps get even better now that I am better - it is helping both physically and mentally.
As I mentioned, I slept too much and ate too much carbs during my major depression. So now I eat more fish, but also I eat more meat - more protein overall. I feel like it (very new thing for me - I was almost a vegetarian before, not trying to be, just not liking meat at all). I am still picky with meat, but a few times a month, I'll make a good piece of beef in the oven and enjoy eating it over several meals. Is it helping? Or do I feel like eating that because I am in remission? Is there even a link? I'm not sure.
I must say that I started drinking coffee again in the morning, since I started taking meds for dysthymia and anxiety. Effexor XR disturbs my sleep and I find it hard to fully wake up in the morning, so I now treat myself to 1 strong coffee in the morning. I love coffee, so it's no sacrifice to me. If I see that I become aggressive or irrationally angry again though, I'll stop and get back to green tea, which I like too.
- sid
Posted by kinetic on February 18, 2002, at 13:50:08
In reply to Diet/Lifestyle change that REALLY help depression, posted by spike4848 on February 18, 2002, at 9:43:55
Well, I have an elliptical trainer (sort of a cross between a stair master and a treadmill) at home and I use it about 4 times a week for about half an hour in my target heart rate, i also have just begun to practice yoga. I find these helpful. The aerobic exercise increases energy and a sense of well being as does the yoga, but the yoga has an added benifit of increasing a sense of calmness and confidence. Diet, I am not so good with, but when I WAS better with it and I was avoiding a lot of starchy, high carb foods and also fat and sticking with a lot of fruit, veggies and grains, I did notice I had more energy and a "lighter feeling". This could all be a psychological effect too though. Also, when I started doing little things like spending a little more money on clothes that I really liked and spending a little more time on grooming and my physical appearance, this was the BIGGEST depression lifter of all. Also, I am currently on effexor (which I am not really sure is helping yet since it's only been a month) and I started working out and making an effort to "look better" way before I went on effexor. Try developing a good skin care regime ( PAMPER YOURSELF), get a new haircut and always exercise and just cut out SOME of the bad things you know you shouldn't be eating, but don't deprive yourself to the point where you defeat the whole purpose! I'll bet you'll see an improvement in a matter of a week. Oh yeah, you can get great yoga books at any bookstore or online, and they are better than videos because no one is rushing you along, so you can concentrate on your form and read about the history and spiritual benefits of yoga also! Good luck!
Posted by Kai on February 18, 2002, at 14:09:59
In reply to Diet/Lifestyle change that REALLY help depression, posted by spike4848 on February 18, 2002, at 9:43:55
I really believe that what you eat affects your mental health.
I never ate breakfast, just coffee and something later. When your body crashes from not being fueled properly, you just end up more tired and more depressed. I eat very carefully now. I don't eat junk food, I don't drink sodas. Lot's of water, fruit, vegetables, and lean protein.
I allow myself one cup of coffee in the morning and then I switch to water.
I used to drink a lot of alcohol. I never wanted to listen to the advice that it just made everything worse. When I was (yet again) so depressed that I could not function at all. Something clicked, I do not drink at all anymore. I have no desire to. Alcohol works against everything the medication is trying to do. It is like pouring gasoline on a fire.
I am having very good results with effexor xr, this is the first time in almost 30 years that I am not trying to "control" my depression. I am learning to live without a fight (and self medicating).
When you are depressed you don't care about what you eat (or drink). It is tough because it really does make a difference. My Dr. gave me a "prescription" to exercise at least half an hour every day when I first started effexor. I went for a walk at first. Now I am swimming, running, and going to the gym. I don't let myself take naps. Effexor does affect my sleep. I have lots of dreams and I do not always get enough sleep(then one night I'll sleep 14 hours to make up for it). My life is very different now for the better.
Posted by sid on February 18, 2002, at 15:10:16
In reply to Re: Diet/Lifestyle change that REALLY help depression, posted by kinetic on February 18, 2002, at 13:50:08
I forgot! I also started yoga recently (viniyoga). I LOVE it. I am sure it will help with my anxiety for the rest of my life too.
I am developing a routine with my teacher that will help me fall asleep, which has been a problem with Effexor XR. I tried it one might so far and it worked well.Yoga means union of body & mental (& spirit if one wants to), and it makes me feel unified indeed.
Posted by sid on February 18, 2002, at 15:12:46
In reply to Re: Diet/Lifestyle change that REALLY help depression, posted by Kai on February 18, 2002, at 14:09:59
Wow, your experience sounds a lot like mine. It was weird to read... I'm happy that you're doing better!
Posted by JohnX2 on February 18, 2002, at 15:39:59
In reply to Diet/Lifestyle change that REALLY help depression, posted by spike4848 on February 18, 2002, at 9:43:55
I tried eating better, but I'm not much
of a cook. So instead I just avoided drinking as
much and eating as much fast food. I also took
good multivitamins and minerals. This was early on
in my latest problems years. At one point I was a bit
obsessive but found that being obsessive was worse than
just using "moderation". I found that I had a general
increase in energy when I took in vitamins since there was
no way my crummy bachelor diet was getting them and cutting out
caffeine from 12 diet cokes a day to 2-3 helped my sleep. None
of this cured major depression/bipolar but may have helped
to "set up" my brain chemistry to be cured?I did notice a profound impact from flaxseed/fish oil.
It gave me really weird dreams, mellowed me out, and
helped with joint inflammation.Regards,
John
> Hey Everyone,
>
> Anyone find diet changes or life style changes help with depression. I was reading about actor Jim Carrey (from "Ace Ventura-Pet Detective" and "The Truman Show") and his battle with depression/bipolar disease. He said once he adjusted his diet, his depression resolved.
>
> I have heard about avoiding aspartame and alcohol, coffee helping depression, avoiding over slepting, omega 3 oil, exercise helping. Anyone have experience with these helping or other advice?
>
> Spike
Posted by spike4848 on February 18, 2002, at 16:12:39
In reply to Re: Diet/Lifestyle change that REALLY help depression » spike4848, posted by JohnX2 on February 18, 2002, at 15:39:59
Posted by Bekka H. on February 18, 2002, at 17:55:23
In reply to Diet/Lifestyle change that REALLY help depression, posted by spike4848 on February 18, 2002, at 9:43:55
Exercise is the best antidepressant I know of. It helps the meds work better, and it's good for you!
Posted by Mr. Scott on February 18, 2002, at 18:27:46
In reply to Diet/Lifestyle change that REALLY help depression, posted by spike4848 on February 18, 2002, at 9:43:55
For me,
I have found that avoiding smoking and alcohol make my moods much more consistent over time, I'm Less anxious, and less intense or prone to anger and stress which I'm sure worsens depression.
I would say the same for coffee, but right it is my vice of choice and am not comfortable giving it up, even though the one big cup I have in the morning is truly noxious.
Fish oil is helpful without a doubt. I use Omegabrite. It takes the edge off, reduces constipation, and I think lays down a bit of stability as well.
Scott
Posted by Mr. Scott on February 18, 2002, at 18:32:10
In reply to Diet/Lifestyle change that REALLY help depression, posted by spike4848 on February 18, 2002, at 9:43:55
Forgot to mention.
Hands down excercise is my best AD outside of drugs. I used to compete even on sinequan (probably not so good for heart!). Nothing beat it for me.
Scott
Posted by Kai on February 18, 2002, at 21:57:30
In reply to Re: Diet/Lifestyle change that REALLY help depression » spike4848, posted by Mr. Scott on February 18, 2002, at 18:32:10
Sid, I am in the middle of a book that you might like. A Path With Heart by Jack Kornfield. He is a Psychotherapist who also happens to be a Buddist (you don't have to be a Buddist to appreciate it). It is about spirituality, and really learning to live. I think that so many depressed people are working on just surviving depression they need help learning how to enjoy life.
I really believe that it is not just a pill that is going to "fix" us, that it is just placing us at the door of learning how to live again.
Posted by kinetic on February 18, 2002, at 23:54:49
In reply to Re: Diet/Lifestyle change that REALLY help depression, posted by Kai on February 18, 2002, at 21:57:30
geez, i can't believe I forgot to mention this earlier when I posted, but as corny as this may sound... making an effort to improvr your sex life can also work wonders on your emotional health. Aside from exercise, a healthy diet, a positive attitude and spiritual attunement, try finding a mate who is up for some bedroom antics if you aren't already that lucky! It's a great work out and it has the added benifit of being FUN and bringing you closer to your loved one!
Posted by christophrejmc on February 19, 2002, at 1:19:38
In reply to Re: Diet/Lifestyle change that REALLY help depression, posted by Kai on February 18, 2002, at 21:57:30
> I think that so many depressed people are working on just surviving depression they need help learning how to enjoy life.
I really like how you worded that! (And I think it's true.)
> I really believe that it is not just a pill that is going to "fix" us, that it is just placing us at the door of learning how to live again.
I agree. I also think it's true that just learning how to live again isn't going to fix us, that comes after treating the depression (by pill or anything else) -- so many people overlook that (I'm definitely don't mean you!).
-Christophre
Posted by Krazy Kat on February 19, 2002, at 6:08:12
In reply to Re: Diet/Lifestyle change that REALLY help depression, posted by kinetic on February 18, 2002, at 13:50:08
I really liked your suggestions - if one can keep them up (you know how depression weakens your will :)), I think they'd really help.
I'm starting an exercise regime today - not looking forward to it, but I know I should do it. I'm able to start it though, because my Prozac/Neurontin combo has worked well.
Good luck with the Effexor - be sure to be forthright with your Dr. if it's not helping soon.
- KK
Posted by sjb on February 19, 2002, at 13:51:09
In reply to Re: Diet/Lifestyle change that REALLY help depression, posted by Bekka H. on February 18, 2002, at 17:55:23
I wish I could say the same for the excercise. I used to be a distance runner and now after gaining so much weight, when I go out and can't do crap, it just makes me feel worse about myself. So tired, so hungry for junk food all the time. Exercise some days because I "should" and just terrified of the weight/food. I do it to try for some purging although it is not nearly enough. I stopped "jogging" today after a few agonizing miles and sat down on the curb and cried hysterically. I used to be able to run the route taking no prisoners. Came back to office, binged on donuts. Real smart - I know. I'm so tired of everything being such an effort and a chore. I wish I would die. NOTHING brings me anything close to joy and the thought of exercise time just fills me with dread cause I know it's going to suck.
Posted by Kai on February 19, 2002, at 18:54:36
In reply to Re: Diet/Lifestyle change that REALLY help depression, posted by sjb on February 19, 2002, at 13:51:09
sjb, I know how you feel. Don't be so hard on yourself. If you can't run, just take a walk and enjoy the view. Depression is such a horrible curse. I used to sit in the bathroom at work and cry. I picked a career that was about intense control- I could not control myself in any other way. (I am a Pastry Chef).
If you can't run, try walking or go for a swim. Buy yourself a magazine or a book and go to a pretty place to read it. My good friend is an athlete. She injured herself and could not run for awhile. It took her three months of trying to run before she liked it again (and she does not have depression). She pushes and helps me (drags me to the pool, runs slowly with me). Her grandmother suffered from depression, she understands about "support" and the importance of exercise.
Try to do what you can everyday. Be kind to yourself though. Are you in therapy? A good therapist can help you with support and motivation.
Think of yourself as a survivor instead of a failure. A survivor is a person with depression who still goes out there and tries to exercise. I know how hard it is.
Posted by sid on February 19, 2002, at 19:10:55
In reply to Re: Diet/Lifestyle change that REALLY help depression, posted by Kai on February 18, 2002, at 21:57:30
Posted by KimberlyL on February 19, 2002, at 20:19:37
In reply to Re: Diet/Lifestyle change that REALLY help depression, posted by Kai on February 19, 2002, at 18:54:36
Dear sjb,
In my humble opinion if you were able to make it a few miles (by any means) you are doing great! Is it possible for you to look at the currently reality and work with it, rather than comparing what you can do now to your past performance? Sometimes it helps to strive to do *less* than you know you can, and then if you end up doing more, it is a bonus. And if not, you can still meet your goal.
Please be easier on yourself!
Kim
Posted by Reneeb on February 19, 2002, at 21:16:04
In reply to Re: Diet/Lifestyle change that REALLY help depression, posted by sjb on February 19, 2002, at 13:51:09
> Hey Sjb, where do you live? Maybe we can start a exercise support group. We can work on goals to reach weekly.
Just a thought,
Renee
Posted by pedr on February 20, 2002, at 8:13:27
In reply to Diet/Lifestyle change that REALLY help depression, posted by spike4848 on February 18, 2002, at 9:43:55
> Hey Everyone,
>
> Anyone find diet changes or life style changes help with depression. I was reading about actor Jim Carrey (from "Ace Ventura-Pet Detective" and "The Truman Show") and his battle with depression/bipolar disease. He said once he adjusted his diet, his depression resolved.
>
> I have heard about avoiding aspartame and alcohol, coffee helping depression, avoiding over slepting, omega 3 oil, exercise helping. Anyone have experience with these helping or other advice?
>
> SpikeSpike,
my findings are as follows:
- any amount of booze makes me much more likely to be severely depressed over the next 2-3 days
- exercise doesn't really help me. I cycle to work 3-4 times a week [this is in London so you have to go fast :-) ] but I find it doesn't really help much
- oversleeping makes my depression worse
- cutting out coffee hasn't made any difference
- smoking weed [I never inhaled, honest] really knocks me down for 3-4 daysCheers and good luck with your quest...
pete.
Posted by sjb on February 20, 2002, at 9:09:17
In reply to Re: Diet/Lifestyle change that REALLY help depression, posted by Kai on February 19, 2002, at 18:54:36
kai,
Thank you so much for those wonderful words! Yes, today I didn't even bring my running clothes but am planning to go out for a walk - no performance pressure or embarrassment. It's a beautiful day. I least I got to work, was thinking about calling in sick because I felt so tired and I can't fit into my work clothes. So, I have my expando-jeans on but at least I got here and not laying around at home.
No, I'm not currently in therapy now. Did it for years and got frustrated because I wasn't getting any better. I totally understand with your crying in the restroom. I do that too, or just close my door and hide behind my PC.
Thanks, so much, again. You really helped me today.
sjb
Posted by OldSchool on February 20, 2002, at 14:36:45
In reply to Diet/Lifestyle change that REALLY help depression, posted by spike4848 on February 18, 2002, at 9:43:55
> Hey Everyone,
>
> Anyone find diet changes or life style changes help with depression. I was reading about actor Jim Carrey (from "Ace Ventura-Pet Detective" and "The Truman Show") and his battle with depression/bipolar disease. He said once he adjusted his diet, his depression resolved.Im VERY skeptical of this. I find my moods dont particularly revolve around what I eat, just so long as I eat three good meals a day. I personally think diet is overrated. I never noticed any improvement in my depression based upon what I ate.
>
> I have heard about avoiding aspartame and alcohol, coffee helping depression, avoiding over slepting, omega 3 oil, exercise helping. Anyone have experience with these helping or other advice?I am very skeptical with most "natural" depression treatments. The only one I have any faith in is regular, INTENSE aerobic exercise. That does work. Like 30 minutes a day of intense aerobic exercise done five to six days a week. This provides a good "runners high" antidepressant effect and it does work, although for sufferers of clinical depression its never enough you still must take meds.
>
> Spike
Posted by Emme on February 20, 2002, at 16:13:15
In reply to Diet/Lifestyle change that REALLY help depression, posted by spike4848 on February 18, 2002, at 9:43:55
I like yoga. It feels good.
Emme
Posted by Kai on February 20, 2002, at 19:06:06
In reply to Re: Diet/Lifestyle change that REALLY help depression, posted by sjb on February 20, 2002, at 9:09:17
sjb, I am so glad that I helped, and so wonderful for you to be outside on a beautiful day.
Therapy is not for everyone. I am very fortunate to have a great therapist who has helped me a lot. She was not the first I went to- it needs to feel right to you. I see my Psychiatrist every three months (he knows that I see my therapist regularly).
Are you on medication? It sounds like you need an adjustment. Call your doctor right away, you need some help that I can't give. Have a good dinner, try to have a good sleep, and don't drink.
Tomorrow on your walk buy yourself a present (maybe flowers? or a plant?...)
Posted by kinetic on February 20, 2002, at 19:30:21
In reply to Re: Diet/Lifestyle change that REALLY help depression » kinetic, posted by Krazy Kat on February 19, 2002, at 6:08:12
> I really liked your suggestions - if one can keep them up (you know how depression weakens your will :)), I think they'd really help.
>
> I'm starting an exercise regime today - not looking forward to it, but I know I should do it. I'm able to start it though, because my Prozac/Neurontin combo has worked well.
>
> Good luck with the Effexor - be sure to be forthright with your Dr. if it's not helping soon.
>
> - KKKK,
Well I find that once you find the sometimes ENORMOUS will power it takes to just get started and get into some resemblance of a routine, each day it gets easier and easier to stay on track. And you will begin enjoying the benefits of whatever it is you are doing so much, that will be added motivation. I just started dating someone new and was running all over the place and I got off track for almost two weeks... I started feeling like crap again! This weekend all I did was lay around, then I FORCED myself to clean my place and then FINALLY today I began exercising again... I feel SO much better already! It really does work! It's just GETTING STARTED that's the hard part. UGH. Well, Good luck with everything!
~kinetic
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