![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 10 to 34 of 34. Go back in thread:
Posted by Roo on June 18, 2001, at 8:08:47
In reply to Re: Am I just too depressed to committ to anyone?, posted by Anna Laura on June 15, 2001, at 13:05:51
Anna Laura--
My doubts sometimes center around the feeling that
maybe I'm not really having a good time. But then
I'm constantly up in my head and analyzing things
to death, which really isn't creating an atmosphere
for having a good time. Laugher is pretty important
to me (especially having depression and needing some
comic relief from time to time), and me and my boyfriend
have very different senses of humor. His is more
intellectual, mine is more just plain goofy. Sometimes
I feel guilty b/c I don't really think he's that funny.
It's not that he dosen't have a sense of humor, it's
just that I don't get it half the time and I'm very
self conscious about the fact that I'm forcing myself
to laugh.
Also, what causes me to have doubts is my inability to
just feel content in this relationship. The fact that
doubts pop up so damn often really is hard on me. I just
want to be able to relax and be in it, rather than
continually question it.
But then like someone else said, is it a chicken or
the egg thing? Is my depression causing me to view
everything in a negative light, or is the situation
simply wrong for me and causing me to be depressed.
Arugh. And, of course no one can know but me. I feel
a little sheepish and guilty about laying my heart and
my personal business out to total strangers...sometimes
it's easier to talk about this stuff to total strangers
than to the people that know me best. Plus they're
probably sick of hearing it :-)
He's a great guy. He's handsome, smart, sensitive,
adores me to death, loves his parents, is willing to
do anything for me...I've been with real bozos in the
past so i'm unwilling to let this guy go (he's a very
rare person I think) without really knowing for sure.
My complaints are that I wish we laughed more...I wish
sometimes that he weren't so focused on me and had more
of a life outside of me....and I wish I felt more content
with things as they are...
Posted by Roo on June 18, 2001, at 8:16:50
In reply to Re: Am I just too depressed to committ to anyone?, posted by Greg A. on June 15, 2001, at 16:42:20
Oh my gosh, Greg A., I can totally relate to your
post. Dosen't the questioning wear you out? I too,
wonder if this is "normal", something all people in
relationships go through. He is a great and rare
person. I know if I gave this relationship up, he
has qualities that I would never find again in another
person...I'm amazed he will hear my doubts and still
stay with me. Soemtimes I fault him for that--I would
never stay with someone that questioned their feelings
for me so often. I couldn't deal with it. I wonder why
(and if it's healthy), that he stays with someone who
questions their feelings for him so much. It's painful
to even contemplate. I do wonder, often, if this
is just about me, and not about him at all. It's what
keeps me from leaving. Sometimes I think the true
test would be if I were happy with myself, and loved
myself, would I still want to be with him? Is this all
about me being unhappy with myself and projecting it
all on him? I constantly feel like my mind is a wet dish
rag that's being wrung and wrung and wrung....
it's so much easier being single...but the thought
that scares me the most is...can I just not love anyone?
Do I just have to pick the easy path of not loving anyone
because I don't get challenged in any way? I really hate
to think that. I"m rambling...
Posted by Roo on June 18, 2001, at 8:21:44
In reply to Re: Am I just too depressed to committ -Roo, posted by Kristi on June 15, 2001, at 18:55:44
Kristi--
It's good that you know that about yourself right
now though. Even though your boyfriend is hurt
right now, I wish that when my boyfriend had first
asked me to marry him that I would have thought it
through more and said "i'm not ready for that right
now"...I didn't really know that's how I felt until
I had already said 'yes' and then started feeling so
anxious and unsure. I caused so much more pain by
not knowing how I felt and then changing my mind. My
boyfriend felt like he'd had the rug pulled out from
under him. I think his family felt betrayed too, because
they had started looking at me as part of the family.
I think they still don't trust me, and they probably
shouldn't. I think you did the right thing by saying
no, and knowing you weren't ready for that big of a
committment yet. I know it hurts though. But you
were brave and stuck to your own inner truth.
Posted by Roo on June 18, 2001, at 8:29:05
In reply to Re: Am I just too depressed to committ to anyone? » Roo, posted by Glenn Fagelson on June 16, 2001, at 23:06:52
> Dear Roo,
>
> I would really like to give you some feedback;
> I might have been in a similar situation, but
> I would need to know what kinds of doubts and
> anxieties you are having? Also, I am not
> getting a clear picture of what your boyfriend
> (fiancee) is like?Oh he's wonderful. Very kind, smart, gentle, handsome...
In many ways, the "perfect" boyfriend that any woman would
want. Sometimes too damn perfect. Sometimes I feel like
I have the stepford boyfriend, you know? I feel like
"show me your raw, ugly side...get mad at me every once
in awhile...tell me I'm getting on your nerves..."...He's always
so damn nice to me sometimes it drives me crazy!
>
> Relationships do take a lot of work, don't they?!
> Did someone hurt you in the past? I know for
> me that I was hurt in childhood and the thought
> of getting close to someone else was (and still
> is to some extent) very frightening and
> uncomfortable.Yes, someone hurt me in my past. I had a very traumatic
experience as a young kid (2 or 3 years old) that I think
affected my ability to trust and be close. My parents
joined a religious commune where I was neglected and got
mostly no attention, or negative attention. Parents were
separated from their children and encouraged not to give
them too much attention. Too long to really go into.Do you feel free within your
> relationship?In some ways. Not in other ways. But I don't feel free a lot
of the time. Even with my closest friends.
Are you scared that you might
> not find someone else if you broke up with him?Oh yes. Very, very afraid of that.
> I can imagine how hard it is for you;
> you have invested at least a couple of years
> in this relationship. One way or the other,
> I hope it works out for you, Roo.
Me too, Glenn...thanks for caring...I pray that the right
thing to happen, will happen, and the right path will
become clear with time.
>
> Take care, Glenn
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Posted by Roo on June 18, 2001, at 8:34:30
In reply to Re: Am I just too depressed to committ to anyone?, posted by Shar on June 17, 2001, at 1:09:14
Indeed....I think especially when you're in a
stressful emotional situation it's hard to just
be in the moment and not get swept away in your
thoughts. That's what I'm dealing with...I'm getting
really swept away in my thoughts a great deal and not
very present. The mindfulness meditation helps some...
but only for a little while and the stuff comes back.
Maybe I need stronger drugs...it's nearly impossible
for me to just put this stuff away, I think about it
24/7...it's wearing my ass out...I long for peace...and
it's frustrating to know that me, and my mind, is
the one causing all the turmoil. But, as always,
the answer probably lies in loving kindness, compassion--
not beating myself up for being stressed out and
analytical...
Posted by Kristi on June 18, 2001, at 16:51:39
In reply to Re: Am I just too depressed to committ Kristi, posted by Roo on June 18, 2001, at 8:21:44
Thank you Roo....your post came in just the knick of time. I've been really questioning what I've done.... that really does make me feel a lot better about my decision...., now... if I can just say something to help you!!!! It's so difficult, that I know.... his family becomes yours and vice versa.... all the more difficult. Nothing in this world compares to the pain of a broken heart!!!! I just wish I had the right words for you.... Hang in there, and thanks again.
Kristi
> Kristi--
>
> It's good that you know that about yourself right
> now though. Even though your boyfriend is hurt
> right now, I wish that when my boyfriend had first
> asked me to marry him that I would have thought it
> through more and said "i'm not ready for that right
> now"...I didn't really know that's how I felt until
> I had already said 'yes' and then started feeling so
> anxious and unsure. I caused so much more pain by
> not knowing how I felt and then changing my mind. My
> boyfriend felt like he'd had the rug pulled out from
> under him. I think his family felt betrayed too, because
> they had started looking at me as part of the family.
> I think they still don't trust me, and they probably
> shouldn't. I think you did the right thing by saying
> no, and knowing you weren't ready for that big of a
> committment yet. I know it hurts though. But you
> were brave and stuck to your own inner truth.
Posted by Kristi on June 18, 2001, at 21:26:31
In reply to Re: Am I just too depressed--Anna Laura, posted by Roo on June 18, 2001, at 8:08:47
Hi again,
You really made a great point in this..... don't make any decisions until you are sure! Take care, Kristi
> Anna Laura--
>
> My doubts sometimes center around the feeling that
> maybe I'm not really having a good time. But then
> I'm constantly up in my head and analyzing things
> to death, which really isn't creating an atmosphere
> for having a good time. Laugher is pretty important
> to me (especially having depression and needing some
> comic relief from time to time), and me and my boyfriend
> have very different senses of humor. His is more
> intellectual, mine is more just plain goofy. Sometimes
> I feel guilty b/c I don't really think he's that funny.
> It's not that he dosen't have a sense of humor, it's
> just that I don't get it half the time and I'm very
> self conscious about the fact that I'm forcing myself
> to laugh.
> Also, what causes me to have doubts is my inability to
> just feel content in this relationship. The fact that
> doubts pop up so damn often really is hard on me. I just
> want to be able to relax and be in it, rather than
> continually question it.
> But then like someone else said, is it a chicken or
> the egg thing? Is my depression causing me to view
> everything in a negative light, or is the situation
> simply wrong for me and causing me to be depressed.
> Arugh. And, of course no one can know but me. I feel
> a little sheepish and guilty about laying my heart and
> my personal business out to total strangers...sometimes
> it's easier to talk about this stuff to total strangers
> than to the people that know me best. Plus they're
> probably sick of hearing it :-)
> He's a great guy. He's handsome, smart, sensitive,
> adores me to death, loves his parents, is willing to
> do anything for me...I've been with real bozos in the
> past so i'm unwilling to let this guy go (he's a very
> rare person I think) without really knowing for sure.
> My complaints are that I wish we laughed more...I wish
> sometimes that he weren't so focused on me and had more
> of a life outside of me....and I wish I felt more content
> with things as they are...
Posted by Glenn Fagelson on June 19, 2001, at 2:27:22
In reply to Re: Am I just too depressed Glenn, posted by Roo on June 18, 2001, at 8:29:05
>
> > Dear Roo,
> >
> > I would really like to give you some feedback;
> > I might have been in a similar situation, but
> > I would need to know what kinds of doubts and
> > anxieties you are having? Also, I am not
> > getting a clear picture of what your boyfriend
> > (fiancee) is like?
>
> Oh he's wonderful. Very kind, smart, gentle, handsome...
> In many ways, the "perfect" boyfriend that any woman would
> want. Sometimes too damn perfect. Sometimes I feel like
> I have the stepford boyfriend, you know? I feel like
> "show me your raw, ugly side...get mad at me every once
> in awhile...tell me I'm getting on your nerves..."...He's always
> so damn nice to me sometimes it drives me crazy!
> >
> > Relationships do take a lot of work, don't they?!
> > Did someone hurt you in the past? I know for
> > me that I was hurt in childhood and the thought
> > of getting close to someone else was (and still
> > is to some extent) very frightening and
> > uncomfortable.
>
> Yes, someone hurt me in my past. I had a very traumatic
> experience as a young kid (2 or 3 years old) that I think
> affected my ability to trust and be close. My parents
> joined a religious commune where I was neglected and got
> mostly no attention, or negative attention. Parents were
> separated from their children and encouraged not to give
> them too much attention. Too long to really go into.
>
> Do you feel free within your
> > relationship?
>
> In some ways. Not in other ways. But I don't feel free a lot
> of the time. Even with my closest friends.
>
>
> Are you scared that you might
> > not find someone else if you broke up with him?
>
> Oh yes. Very, very afraid of that.
>
>
> > I can imagine how hard it is for you;
> > you have invested at least a couple of years
> > in this relationship. One way or the other,
> > I hope it works out for you, Roo.
>
>
> Me too, Glenn...thanks for caring...I pray that the right
> thing to happen, will happen, and the right path will
> become clear with time.
>
>
> >
> > Take care, GlennHi Roo,
Based on what you have mentioned to
me, I am starting to get the picture now
of your situation. Can I be so bold as
to say that I know exactly how you are
feeling? Of course,I could be wrong, but
I am really getting the feeling that you
feel obligated to work on this
relationship. Do you really love him
that much? He sounds like a very sweet
guy, but I am seeing and hearing that
he does not make you laugh; his sense of
humor does not mesh with yours. In my
mind, that is a red flag, a big red flag!
Also I would go nuts if the woman in my
life did not have her own world. Do you
have any conflicts with him? Does he ever
disagree with you? Conflicts are a
natural part of the relationship process;
that is how we grow. Are you a playful
person? Is he? These are some of the
questions that I would be asking myself
if I were in your situation right now.
I may regret
asking you this tomorrow, but I will
ask it anyway. Can he be the sexual
"animal" that will bring you to your
most fondest and most memorable orgasms?
I am not talking about sexual abuse, rape
or lack of love when I ask this. I think
you know what I mean.I usually go by this guide in order to
tell me if I am in a healthy relation-
ship or not. I look for 3 things: Is
there passion here? Are we best
friends? Do we respect each other?
If anyone of those aforementioned factors
are not there, then I know that
the relationsh is nota solid one for me.
Please,please correct me if I am wrong;
it seems like you have the friendship;
it seems like you reasonably respect each
other, but I do not see the passion in
the relationship. I do not know about you,
but I could never, ever marry a woman
unless I was passionate about her.Glenn
P.S.: You seem like a very nice person; what makes
you think that you would never find someone
else? Remember you, as a person, deserve
the very best; do not sell yourself short!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
Posted by Anna Laura on June 19, 2001, at 6:05:53
In reply to Re: Am I just too depressed--Anna Laura, posted by Roo on June 18, 2001, at 8:08:47
> Anna Laura--
>
> My doubts sometimes center around the feeling that
> maybe I'm not really having a good time. But then
> I'm constantly up in my head and analyzing things
> to death, which really isn't creating an atmosphere
> for having a good time. Laugher is pretty important
> to me (especially having depression and needing some
> comic relief from time to time), and me and my boyfriend
> have very different senses of humor. His is more
> intellectual, mine is more just plain goofy. Sometimes
> I feel guilty b/c I don't really think he's that funny.
> It's not that he dosen't have a sense of humor, it's
> just that I don't get it half the time and I'm very
> self conscious about the fact that I'm forcing myself
> to laugh.
> Also, what causes me to have doubts is my inability to
> just feel content in this relationship. The fact that
> doubts pop up so damn often really is hard on me. I just
> want to be able to relax and be in it, rather than
> continually question it.
> But then like someone else said, is it a chicken or
> the egg thing? Is my depression causing me to view
> everything in a negative light, or is the situation
> simply wrong for me and causing me to be depressed.
> Arugh. And, of course no one can know but me. I feel
> a little sheepish and guilty about laying my heart and
> my personal business out to total strangers...sometimes
> it's easier to talk about this stuff to total strangers
> than to the people that know me best. Plus they're
> probably sick of hearing it :-)
> He's a great guy. He's handsome, smart, sensitive,
> adores me to death, loves his parents, is willing to
> do anything for me...I've been with real bozos in the
> past so i'm unwilling to let this guy go (he's a very
> rare person I think) without really knowing for sure.
> My complaints are that I wish we laughed more...I wish
> sometimes that he weren't so focused on me and had more
> of a life outside of me....and I wish I felt more content
> with things as they are...I've had the same problems with my ex-fianceé. I loved him, was sure of that but i was constantly wondering if he was the right guy for me also.
I'm a northern Italian whereas he came from the south (big time difference).
He never laughed or made jokes, was kind of cynical and fatalist, susbstantially believing we can't control our destiny whereas i was optimistic (i know it's strange if you're depressed) believing that life was worth living, people being good at the core. He thoughts most of people were mean instead.
He didn't have a diploma whereas i was in College.
His parents were poor (his father was a miner). My parents were rich (attorneys- at-law).
Despite of this, we loved each other a lot.
I thought he was the best guy on earth, sensitive and understanding, i felt he loved me very much.
We've been together five years and we're still in touch (unfortunately he suffers from a terrible illness).
I don't know, i think it was worthy despite of all the negative factors i mentioned above.
I know it might sound obvious, but i advice you not to think too much: just live this story instead of looking at it from the outside rationalizing all the time; life is too short for this: just live it.Best whishes and good luck
Anna Laura
Posted by Roo on June 19, 2001, at 8:23:30
In reply to Re: Am I just too depressed - Roo, posted by Kristi on June 18, 2001, at 16:51:39
Kristi--
I'm so glad my post found you at the right time!
It's so good when that synchronistic stuff can
happen! You don't have to find the right words
for me--just knowing you can relate helps!You hang in there too! May the force be with you!
Roo
Posted by Roo on June 19, 2001, at 8:42:02
In reply to Re: Am I just too depressed Glenn, posted by Glenn Fagelson on June 19, 2001, at 2:27:22
> >
Posted by Roo on June 19, 2001, at 8:44:11
In reply to Re: Am I just too depressed--Anna Laura, posted by Anna Laura on June 19, 2001, at 6:05:53
Thanks Anna Laura--that's good advice. After all,
I won't really know if it's right or wrong unless
I allow myself to _really_ be in it for awhile, and
right now, I'm very much outside of it--in my head.
Thanks again--Roo
Posted by Wendy B. on June 19, 2001, at 9:08:57
In reply to Am I just too depressed to committ to anyone?, posted by Roo on June 15, 2001, at 11:38:51
> But also, the feeling of anxiety and
> doubt about the relationship still plagues me. It's almost
> all I can think about. I don't know if it's just the stress
> of the transition.It sounds like the stress and worries were already there. My initial thought (sorry, just read all the posts to your query today) is: what meds are you on?? Seriously. You should not have to live through such anxiety... I went thru a BAD breakup earlier this year, and had some Xanax (alprazolam) to help out on the really rough days. Also, just getting the right anti-depressant does help. It also sounds like you're "ruminating" or obsessing... there are meds for that, too, such as the Xanax or other benzos. You don't have to live like that, sweetie... Talk to the doctor about it again...
>Good common sense tells me to at least
> give living together a good chance, 6 months or so. But it's
> so hard to live with the anxiety. (But then it didn't go
> away the last time I left either). Argh.I think your conversation with Glenn just really shows you have no passion for this guy. He sounds so very good and nice, but you need more. Let him go, he needs to find someone who really loves him too, he deserves it, and you want the best for him. You can't help the way you feel.
It'll be hard on his family, too, but they aren't the ones IN the relationship, they won't and don't suffer as much as you or your boyfriend. (I _hate_ it when parents say stuff like, "This hurts us more than it hurts you..." No, Mom, it doesn't!)
>I'm just thinking
> am I just too scared to committ to ANYONE, does my depression
> leave me too self absorbed and tired to truly love anyone, or
> to be able to be what it take to be in an intimate relationship?It may very well - FOR NOW. But that doesn't mean forever. You need all of the things you and Glenn talked about, friendship, respect, passion, etc. You don't want to settle for "comfortable," this is what your boyfriend represents to you. He's the kindest person you have known, yes, but are there other people out there, for later, when you have your head more together? The answer is yes. But you have more work to do on yourself, it seems, and being in a relationship is emotionally very time-consuming. Work on you for now, see about other men later...
You don't mention jobs - what do you do for work? Maybe you need to switch focus from what the relationship needs, to what you need to feel good about yourself? It's all very hard to do, especially when you have a history of neglect. The religious commune thing your parents did to you sounds awful. There must be a lot of pain there...
So go slowly, and don't make any big life-decisions right now, except for telling your boyfriend you both need to move on, I really think he deserves to know. Also, don't forget to check on your meds, and let us know how you're doing...
A big hug to you,
Wendy
Posted by Greg A. on June 19, 2001, at 11:41:01
In reply to Re: Am I just too depressed to committ to anyone? » Greg A., posted by Marie1 on June 15, 2001, at 22:14:20
Hi Marie
Did I respond to one of your posts awhile ago? What was it about?
I don’t mind the questions at all. I figure if I don’t talk about my feelings . . . well that’s a big part of my problem to begin with. So – no – I don’t feel ‘in love’ with my wife anymore. Or not in nearly the same way as it used to be. With kids, time just seems to pass by with no real changes. Certainly not changes for the better as we just seem to get farther apart.
How did your depression seem to start? It’s very hard for me to be definite about a start. I don’t think it had anything to do with my relationship with my wife. But it has affected our relationship. My wife has exactly the same thoughts as your husband – what if I realize that she is part of my problem? I don’t think it’s so much a fear on her part that I will leave. It’s a worry that we will stay together and be unhappy, especially after the kids are grown.
Like you, I seem to be looking for something. I am cautious about what I think I see in other women as I mentioned the other day in my post. It’s so easy to overlook the flaws and think that something new is better.
My doc says we have to work at our marriage and has suggested a number of things to try. By the way, my doc is a woman, and has seen us jointly on a number of occasions. She usually sides with my wife, but not always. We don’t really go and complain about each other but we have tried to get some things out in the open. It’s something we should be continuing on our own but the pressures of everyday life seem to leave little time or energy for it.
I like your thought of ‘riding it out.’ When you’re depressed is a poor time to make major life decisions. What comfort you think you may get from leaving a relationship or from a new one may not last long and be accompanied by much stress and second guessing. Be honest with your husband. Let him know how you are feeling – without beating him up too badly. Is there anything he could be doing to make you feel closer? Even if the news from you is on the bad side, at least he will feel you are close enough to confide in him.Greg
Posted by Glenn Fagelson on June 19, 2001, at 15:02:12
In reply to Re: Am I just too depressed GLENN, posted by Roo on June 19, 2001, at 8:42:02
> > >
Posted by JennyR on June 20, 2001, at 21:29:34
In reply to Am I just too depressed to committ to anyone?, posted by Roo on June 15, 2001, at 11:38:51
Wow, some of you guys - Marie, Greg, Glenn - the things you are saying hit really close to home.
To you, Roo, I would say if you feel ambivalent about committing to this person, the ambivalence is telling you something. I, after 16 years of marriage, have a lot of doubts and questions about my feelings for my husband, and that was being pretty sure going in. So if there are questions and reservations going in, I would say that's a sign to proceed with caution. If it doesn't feel completely right now, what about down the line, years from now, when those differences may become much more pronounced. When I was in my teens and 20s I used to wonder how I'd know when I'd found "the one" and how I'd know if it was real love. What I decided on for myself then, were two criteria - 1. I had to have no reservations and 2. My heart had to do cartwheels.
In retrospect, I did have reservations, I just hid them from myself, or thought I'd change him, or he'd mature, or whatever. My heart did cartwheels, but I think that was the initial infatuation and also loving the fact that he loved me so much.
If you guys are right for each other, then there's no need to rush anything, you can see if it builds more.
My own personal situation is I really fell out of love over time, and I always wonder if it's that we're not compatible, or I'm defective/not capable of a deep, abiding love. Our life is centered around house, kids, chores, etc. But I wonder do I not feel love because of all the crappy things he's done/not done, or do I perceive it all as crappy because I struggle with depression and the negative thinking that goes with it. Or is he really a difficult person to be with or am I just too critical. Or if part of depression is the absence of feeling, maybe that's why I don't feel the love, etc, etc.
The fact that he is a very unsexual person doesn't help either, as at least a good sex life can produce a lot of bonding and a storehouse of good feeling (it's absence has caused me a lot of resentment). I agree with Glenn about passion being important (as well as your other points, Glenn).Then for me there's a whole other aspect to commitment. I'm married, but yet emotionally, I have probably remained to separate, always tried to maintain a lot of individuality, independence, maybe to the point of where I put too many barriers to emotional closeness. Then again, he always acted so needy, that maybe I was reacting to that. On the other hand, having had no models of good, close relationships growing up (it was a war zone) maybe once again, it's me - committed in every way but emotionally, still keeping walls there, afraid of total merging.
You don't have a lot to lose by living together, but marriage.... that's something to be really, really sure about. Living together, I'd assume will continue to be a good test of if that's where you're heading. We never lived together and I let him rush me into marriage.
On the other hand (I have many hands) look at those countries where there are arranged marriages - strangers getting together, not worried about love, and it usually works out.
I think I've gone on too long. Trust your gut, don't be in a hurry. Good luck.
Posted by Glenn Fagelson on June 20, 2001, at 22:45:34
In reply to Re: Am I just too depressed to committ to anyone?, posted by JennyR on June 20, 2001, at 21:29:34
> Wow, some of you guys - Marie, Greg, Glenn - the things you are saying hit really close to home.
> To you, Roo, I would say if you feel ambivalent about committing to this person, the ambivalence is telling you something. I, after 16 years of marriage, have a lot of doubts and questions about my feelings for my husband, and that was being pretty sure going in. So if there are questions and reservations going in, I would say that's a sign to proceed with caution. If it doesn't feel completely right now, what about down the line, years from now, when those differences may become much more pronounced. When I was in my teens and 20s I used to wonder how I'd know when I'd found "the one" and how I'd know if it was real love. What I decided on for myself then, were two criteria - 1. I had to have no reservations and 2. My heart had to do cartwheels.
> In retrospect, I did have reservations, I just hid them from myself, or thought I'd change him, or he'd mature, or whatever. My heart did cartwheels, but I think that was the initial infatuation and also loving the fact that he loved me so much.
> If you guys are right for each other, then there's no need to rush anything, you can see if it builds more.
> My own personal situation is I really fell out of love over time, and I always wonder if it's that we're not compatible, or I'm defective/not capable of a deep, abiding love. Our life is centered around house, kids, chores, etc. But I wonder do I not feel love because of all the crappy things he's done/not done, or do I perceive it all as crappy because I struggle with depression and the negative thinking that goes with it. Or is he really a difficult person to be with or am I just too critical. Or if part of depression is the absence of feeling, maybe that's why I don't feel the love, etc, etc.
> The fact that he is a very unsexual person doesn't help either, as at least a good sex life can produce a lot of bonding and a storehouse of good feeling (it's absence has caused me a lot of resentment). I agree with Glenn about passion being important (as well as your other points, Glenn).
>
> Then for me there's a whole other aspect to commitment. I'm married, but yet emotionally, I have probably remained to separate, always tried to maintain a lot of individuality, independence, maybe to the point of where I put too many barriers to emotional closeness. Then again, he always acted so needy, that maybe I was reacting to that. On the other hand, having had no models of good, close relationships growing up (it was a war zone) maybe once again, it's me - committed in every way but emotionally, still keeping walls there, afraid of total merging.
>
> You don't have a lot to lose by living together, but marriage.... that's something to be really, really sure about. Living together, I'd assume will continue to be a good test of if that's where you're heading. We never lived together and I let him rush me into marriage.
>
> On the other hand (I have many hands) look at those countries where there are arranged marriages - strangers getting together, not worried about love, and it usually works out.
>
> I think I've gone on too long. Trust your gut, don't be in a hurry. Good luck.I agree with you, jennyR!
Glenn
Posted by Marie1 on June 22, 2001, at 8:57:01
In reply to Marie - Long term Relationships, posted by Greg A. on June 19, 2001, at 11:41:01
Greg,
So nice of you to post back - I really was worried that I'd crossed some arbitrary line on how personal is too personal. It sounds like our marriages are stuck in the same ...what? rut? No, I think "rut" is too mediocre a word. Actually I think "turning point" might be more apt. Like you, I don't think my depression has much, if anything, to do with my husband. Initially, when I became severely depressed last year, I thought it was purely chemical. I have a brother who killed himself at the age of 32, 4 yrs. ago. His death verified what I'd tried to tell my family for years (about my own depression) and confirmed for me that this was a chemical problem. Also, my husband, kids and I lived in Australia for a year and I ran out of Prozac while there, resulting in a rather severe depression. Obviously, I need the meds. But in therapy I've recently become consciously aware of abuse problems from childhood. These have probably also contibuted to my depression. I'm having difficulty writing about this now because my older brother (who sexually abused me) died last weekend. We just got home from his funeral yesterday. I can't begin to express how awful and conflicted I feel right now. He was only 48, and we were close off and on during our childhood. In fact, he's the only one with whom I share many growing-up memories. As far as the abuse, he was only a kid too and I forgive him. This really hurts so much.
Anyway, getting back on topic, I realized this past week that while I might not feel "in love" with my husband, we too have many memories that are only ours and I can't just throw all that away. I'm going to do what I can to fall back in love with him - I don't think it's too late. We'll probably try counseling with someone more impartial than my psychiatrist (I think my husband is somewhat jeolous of our relationship) and doesn't think he'd get a "fair trial" there. Let me know how it goes with you and your wife. Perhaps we can be mutually supportive? Take care.
Marie
> Hi Marie
>
> Did I respond to one of your posts awhile ago? What was it about?
> I don’t mind the questions at all. I figure if I don’t talk about my feelings . . . well that’s a big part of my problem to begin with. So – no – I don’t feel ‘in love’ with my wife anymore. Or not in nearly the same way as it used to be. With kids, time just seems to pass by with no real changes. Certainly not changes for the better as we just seem to get farther apart.
> How did your depression seem to start? It’s very hard for me to be definite about a start. I don’t think it had anything to do with my relationship with my wife. But it has affected our relationship. My wife has exactly the same thoughts as your husband – what if I realize that she is part of my problem? I don’t think it’s so much a fear on her part that I will leave. It’s a worry that we will stay together and be unhappy, especially after the kids are grown.
> Like you, I seem to be looking for something. I am cautious about what I think I see in other women as I mentioned the other day in my post. It’s so easy to overlook the flaws and think that something new is better.
> My doc says we have to work at our marriage and has suggested a number of things to try. By the way, my doc is a woman, and has seen us jointly on a number of occasions. She usually sides with my wife, but not always. We don’t really go and complain about each other but we have tried to get some things out in the open. It’s something we should be continuing on our own but the pressures of everyday life seem to leave little time or energy for it.
> I like your thought of ‘riding it out.’ When you’re depressed is a poor time to make major life decisions. What comfort you think you may get from leaving a relationship or from a new one may not last long and be accompanied by much stress and second guessing. Be honest with your husband. Let him know how you are feeling – without beating him up too badly. Is there anything he could be doing to make you feel closer? Even if the news from you is on the bad side, at least he will feel you are close enough to confide in him.
>
> Greg
Posted by Willow on June 22, 2001, at 13:27:10
In reply to Re: Marie - Long term Relationships » Greg A., posted by Marie1 on June 22, 2001, at 8:57:01
I think it's called the "seven year itch." I'm getting the "fifteen year itch" and it can cause confusion. I have a good relationship, but I want more ... And I feel guilty for feeling this way. Gosh, what's a girl to do?
Willow
Posted by tina on June 22, 2001, at 14:42:35
In reply to Seven year itch ..., posted by Willow on June 22, 2001, at 13:27:10
I had all my marital probs just before our 7 year anniversary too. What the heck is that about? Others I know have had 15 year itches and 21 year itches. does that mean it goes in 7's?
Happy to say that hubby and I are stronger than ever now. Recommitted like rabbits hehehe
Tina
> I think it's called the "seven year itch." I'm getting the "fifteen year itch" and it can cause confusion. I have a good relationship, but I want more ... And I feel guilty for feeling this way. Gosh, what's a girl to do?
>
> Willow
Posted by JennyR on June 26, 2001, at 10:07:06
In reply to Re: Marie - Long term Relationships » Greg A., posted by Marie1 on June 22, 2001, at 8:57:01
These love threads fascinate me. I'd like to ask if people here, in general, have problems feeling love. I "fell out of love" with my husband long ago. My question is, if depression causes, or is, a blunting of affect, the absence of being able to feel, or to feel a full range of emotions, is it typical for depressives to have trouble feeling love for the people they are supposed to?
Have you folks felt you ought to be able to love stronger or more unconditionally than you are able to?
Posted by Willow on June 26, 2001, at 10:51:18
In reply to Love, cont., posted by JennyR on June 26, 2001, at 10:07:06
*Have you folks felt you ought to be able to love stronger or more unconditionally than you are able to?
I've even been indifferent to my children. Normally I would say that I'm a "passionate" or "emotional" type. (I love the smell of rain and I say hello to the local hobos, and on and on. Maybe it would be easier for me not to care. Being ill has brought me to that point and it's not the answer. :0 ) Some ADs definitely had made me emotionally blunted, remove med I'm okay. Effexor has been the first one that didn't make me feel this way. It has made me more like a stoner, smile be happy type.
So for me living with this syndrome has affected my emotions, but more so the meds to treat it.
Willow
Posted by tina on June 26, 2001, at 11:16:26
In reply to Re: Love, cont., posted by Willow on June 26, 2001, at 10:51:18
> *Have you folks felt you ought to be able to love stronger or more unconditionally than you are able to?
Yes yes yes!!!!! It is my inability to give love that keeps me from relationships with other people in general. My dh and I have discussed this and he is understanding but my family is not. Its hard to look in the face of these people and feel nothing.
>
> I've even been indifferent to my children. Normally I would say that I'm a "passionate" or "emotional" type. (I love the smell of rain and I say hello to the local hobos, and on and on. Maybe it would be easier for me not to care. Being ill has brought me to that point and it's not the answer. :0 ) Some ADs definitely had made me emotionally blunted, remove med I'm okay. Effexor has been the first one that didn't make me feel this way. It has made me more like a stoner, smile be happy type.
>
> So for me living with this syndrome has affected my emotions, but more so the meds to treat it.
>
> Willow
Posted by Greg A. on June 26, 2001, at 11:38:08
In reply to Re: Marie - Long term Relationships » Greg A., posted by Marie1 on June 22, 2001, at 8:57:01
> Hi Marie,
You sure have a lot going on in your life right now. Give yourself the chance to sort things out at their own pace. Take time to feel grief and sadness. I never do (or did) and I pay for it later.
There’s a whole lot of truth to “the grass is always greener” or “you don’t know what you’ve got till it’s gone” as far as relationships are concerned. Like you I have twenty plus years invested in memories and life’s tumult with my wife. As much as I think I am dissatisfied or see more in another person, I am learning to maintain a degree of skepticism. Often, those ever so interesting younger women do not hold up well if you scratch beneath the surface. Some of them do not even appreciate being scratched!
It’s good to have a perspective from someone who is in a similar situation but is not personally close to the details. I would appreciate having the chance to talk things over with you and get your thoughts on married life and its problems. I don’t know where the line is as to what’s too personal. You certainly haven’t crossed it yet.Greg
Posted by Greg A. on June 26, 2001, at 12:00:11
In reply to Love, cont., posted by JennyR on June 26, 2001, at 10:07:06
Jenny – you are opening a big box of emotional garbage for me with this question. Yes I do feel an absence of strong emotion as far as love is concerned. But I think for me, the absence of emotion relates more to my upbringing than to symptoms of depression or side effects of meds. I grew up in a family where strong emotion was not the thing to do. It was a sign of weakness or childishness. I got that from my mother. I carried that misconception for a lot of years and held back strong feelings of joy, love, anger, sadness. I think that inability to express emotions is part of my depression. It’s almost like I am afraid to feel strongly because I don’t know what will emerge. So I numb myself. I am trying to work on this by recognizing it and talking, but admitting to it is not quite the same as dealing with it. Dealing with it requires that I surrender and give up the pretense of a cold detached ‘strong’ person. Admitting to it means I plead guilty but may have no real remorse or shame or intent and will to change. Right now I’m stuck. I hope to find the next step soon.
This is the end of the thread.
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