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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by rainbowbrite on May 12, 2005, at 14:50:23
In reply to Re: I think I have some serious issues **trigger** » sunny10, posted by pinkeye on May 12, 2005, at 14:33:58
Pinkeye you are in no way responsible for this!
you need to know that. no one is responsible for another persons agression. Please please dont give in to him. it makes me so sad to hear about waht you are going through. No one should experience this. Let him go and you stay, or do what you want. living your life according to someone else isnt fair to you.i hope you are ok
((pinkeye))
Posted by pinkeye on May 12, 2005, at 14:53:48
In reply to Re: I think I have some serious issues **trigger** » pinkeye, posted by Tamar on May 12, 2005, at 14:31:29
Thanks Tamar
>What do *you* believe in? Do you agree with your father, or your husband, or neither? I don’t think you can really be happy unless you decide for yourself what you want in life. You just can’t ever live up to other people’s expectations.
I don't know what I believe in. That is the problem. I really don't have any idea what I want to do in life or what I think is right to do. I all the time just believed what my fahter said, and I lived according to that. But now I am realizing that it was not at all correct. And my husband says completely different things. And I am really really confused.>ANY physical violence is too much, in my opinion. You should not have to live in fear of being attacked by your husband. Have you told your T about this violence?
Men in India usually atleast slap their wife or some minimal physical violence is there in almost all the families that I know of. So that is why I try to think it is normal to get little bit violent when you get so angry.
I keep accepting to my hsuband that I would go back. But then I become so agitated the next day. I keep trying to make up my mind and think of all the good things that I will get by going back to India... but I just seem impossible to really makie up my mind to go back. I have been working on this issue for the past 4 years even with my ex T. But I am not able to make up my mind. Taht is the problem. I think even if my father was sick, I probably may not go back. I am not sure, why I feel so strongly.. It is almost like it is out of my hands. I am fine with giving in lot of stuff for my husband, but when it comes to this, I beocme so depressed, and mad and angry and upset. And it is very torturing for me. I think I have some sort of emotional issue there.. It is not a simple decision of going back to my home country. I think somehow it triggers soemthing else for me.
I don't know about leaving my husband. He is a nice person basically. I am very affectionate towards him and take care of him and cook for him etc. But I don't have too much of emotional bond with him. It is possible that my issue with my father was affecting my relationship with my husband.
You know the worst thing is, I can understand things very well with my brain.. but emotionally it is all too much for me.
I feel I am so immature - I should never have married. I am not capable of dealing with one more person in my life. And one more family. I feel I am not capable of being a wife.
Posted by pinkeye on May 12, 2005, at 15:03:40
In reply to Re: I think I have some serious issues **trigger** » pinkeye, posted by rainbowbrite on May 12, 2005, at 14:50:23
thanks Rainbow.
I keep feeling I am responsible for it.. I am not able to grasp that I am not.
I dont want to hold my husband back. I have told him several options.. he can resign his job and go and be there, and I will take up a travelling job (my ex manager agreed to give me a job where I could travel once in 3 months to India), and I will keep going back and forth for a year..But I know I am responsible for the mess. I keep hurting myself with all men in my life, and it just cannot happen without something seriously wrong with me. There must be something horribly horribly wrong with me. And I have tried my best to find out and fix it, but it seems beyond my grasp. Somehow I am terribly messed up.
Posted by rainbowbrite on May 12, 2005, at 15:13:53
In reply to Re: I think I have some serious issues **trigger** » rainbowbrite, posted by pinkeye on May 12, 2005, at 15:03:40
you know what I think, I think there is nothing wrong with you besides the fact that you were maybe not exposed to the best role models. How can we have healthy rea;ltionships when we are not exposed to them...it is so frustrating.
and you may not have made the best decisions in your life? i dont know, but Im sure you have not made a huge mess of things and besides I believe it always takes 2 when it comes to relationships.
If you look deep down inseide yourself for answers and use your gut you may have more than you think you do. How content are you in this marriage? I know it is so hard, I hate making decisions more than anything. Have you tried couples therapy?
I just can not emphasize enough how it is not ok to physically hurt another person. It seems like your husband was receptive to what you said about hitting his mother, maybe that approach is a good one to try to help him see what he is doing is so wrong.Take care of yourself
Posted by pinkeye on May 12, 2005, at 15:28:22
In reply to Re: I think I have some serious issues **trigger** » pinkeye, posted by rainbowbrite on May 12, 2005, at 15:13:53
Thank you.
We have tried couples thearpy about 3 years back for the same issue wiht my exT. I agreed to go back to India with him, but then my hsuband changed his mind, and wanted to be here as well. So it became a non issue for us. But my hsuband got into several problems himself, and I was struggling with that. Now my husband wouldn't come to couple therapy (I have asekd, and he makes fun of therapists. He doesn't like them anymore).
I get very hurt in my relationship with men. My father, my husband. For that matter even my exT. I got so hurt, and I know for 100% sure, he is a good person, and he didn't have any intention of hurting me. Even if my father and my husband had not been that great, I know my ex T was very good. But I got hurt myself with him also.
You know what I actually feel, I am not fit to have a good relationship with any man. That is what I really believe. Either they abuse me or treat me like a doormat, or if they are good, then they don't like me. IT is hugely messed up.
Posted by pinkeye on May 12, 2005, at 15:30:27
In reply to Re: I think I have some serious issues **trigger** » rainbowbrite, posted by pinkeye on May 12, 2005, at 15:28:22
I think I should really stay by myself. I think I should get a divorce and just stay by myself. I don't think I ever want any relationship with anybody. I have had enough.
Posted by anastasia56 on May 12, 2005, at 15:31:49
In reply to Re: I think I have some serious issues **trigger** » pinkeye, posted by rainbowbrite on May 12, 2005, at 15:13:53
the common thread in all your posts pinkeye is
you blaming yourself alot.No matter what the situation doesn't that seem lopsided? No one is ever that wrong or bad.
you couldn't have known how you would feel about going back to India when you made that promise years ago.
i echo everything everyone has said to you here. As my mother used to say "If everyone were jumping off the Empire State Building would you do it too?" Just because most families in India experience some violence towards wives does not make it right. Just because most wives in India feel it is their duty to follow their husbands directives, does not make it right. You are your own person with a right to a future that will make you happy.
ana
Posted by pinkeye on May 12, 2005, at 15:44:36
In reply to Re: I think I have some serious issues **trigger**, posted by anastasia56 on May 12, 2005, at 15:31:49
The thing is I think somehow I can fix it.. Somehow if I were better or somehow changed my attitude or somehow please my hsuband little more, maybe he would have been more affectionate towards me. Maybe he wouldn't have gotten into all that cult thing. Maybe he would have been more considerate towards me.
I really feel people kind of get what they deserve.. and if I am getting bad things in life, it is because I deserve it. Maybe it is what is taught in my religion.
And I felt guilty about liking my ex T also.. somehow I feel I don't deserve to be treated with respect, becuase I liked someone outside of marriage.
And even with my fahter, I alwasy thought somehow if I changed myself, he would like me or not scold me or not scold my mom.
My new T also says the same thing that you guys do.. that somehow I always manage to blame myself .. and she thinks it is a huge issue for me with my dad. My dad always used to say take responsibility and don't blame circumstances or others. And she thinks my problem with men is because of my getting really abused by my dad. She thinks what my dad is really serious - and that it has really damaged me.
Maybe I am just irrevocably damaged..
Posted by Dinah on May 12, 2005, at 16:02:56
In reply to Re: I think I have some serious issues **trigger** » anastasia56, posted by pinkeye on May 12, 2005, at 15:44:36
It would be nice if we had the power to control other people's reactions. Kids especially like to think that if they're good enough, they'll be treated better, because they have no real power to leave or to make things better, so their only power is the illusory power they give themselves.
But no one has that kind of power. Your husband thinks it's ok to hurt someone he supposedly loves when he gets frustrated. Maybe it's cultural, maybe he's just never had to learn differently.
You have no power over him.
You have power over your own life. You can decide what you want for yourself, and more importantly for the kids you might have. I wouldn't want any daughter of mine growing up thinking it's her destiny to be beaten, as long as it's not too "bad".
Most of us here are a bit broken. But it doesn't have to be irrevocable unless you choose it to be. If you throw up your hands and say nothing will ever change, guess what? Nothing will ever change.
It's totally up to you.
I always hate that.
Posted by PM80 on May 12, 2005, at 16:10:59
In reply to Re: I think I have some serious issues **trigger** » anastasia56, posted by pinkeye on May 12, 2005, at 15:44:36
STOP blaming yourself. You keep going in circles with the end and the beginning being that it is your fault somehow. Your feelings are just as valid as your father's or your husband's. Stop thinking that they are not. That is stinkin'-thinkin' as my T would say.
Try, just for the hell of it, to think about the facts without putting blame on anyone. Think about how you feel about things without worrying about whether that feeling is right or wrong. It simply is. Your feelings exist and it's okay. I'm not lying. You do not have to be able to explain your feelings or why you have them. Let yourself listen to you and don't feel bad about it. It is what is. Honestly, this helps me when I'm trying to figure out how I feel about things.
Posted by pinkeye on May 12, 2005, at 16:22:19
In reply to Re: I think I have some serious issues **trigger** » pinkeye, posted by Dinah on May 12, 2005, at 16:02:56
thank you.
I am not able to reply too much anymore. I just so hate myself..
I am no good. I was kidding myself when I wanted my ex T to like me.. no wonder he said there is no question of liking me.. he must have understood how crappy I really am.
I really don't feel like doing too much of anything anymore.. not even try to live well. I have got my first under performance review in this past 3 months. I have never gotten an under performance so far. My manager was asking me waht is wrong with me.. that I used to do things so well, and now I am just not doing anything.
I just want to go someplace where there is no one.. and I will live by myself. this is all too much for me.
Posted by pinkeye on May 12, 2005, at 16:23:05
In reply to Re: I think I have some serious issues **trigger** » pinkeye, posted by PM80 on May 12, 2005, at 16:10:59
Posted by pinkeye on May 12, 2005, at 16:24:39
In reply to Re: I think I have some serious issues **trigger** » pinkeye, posted by PM80 on May 12, 2005, at 16:10:59
thank you PM80. I am not so well now.. Not able to reply too much now. but thanks.
Posted by Dinah on May 12, 2005, at 16:29:51
In reply to Re: I think I have some serious issues **trigger** » Dinah, posted by pinkeye on May 12, 2005, at 16:22:19
I'm sorry, Pinkeye. I hate to be evaluated negatively at work. It just sends me reeling.
You're going through some rough times with some rough decisions. You aren't awful, you're overwhelmed.
Deep breaths now. One bad review does not a bad person make (thank heavens). It feels rotten, but it doesn't make you a rotten person.
Posted by pinkeye on May 12, 2005, at 16:35:40
In reply to Re: I think I have some serious issues **trigger** » pinkeye, posted by Dinah on May 12, 2005, at 16:29:51
yeah.. and I am not able to concentrate at work or learn things too much.
I have always had above expectation or meeting expectation. This was the first time they said I was not able to meet the regular expectations. It is not too bad, and anyway I am planning to resign after couple of months - to go back to India if I have to. Or will take up a travelling job. Anyway, this week is my fifth year in my company anniversary. And it feels bad to not be able to leave the company finally wiht good review.
Posted by JenStar on May 12, 2005, at 16:43:36
In reply to Re: I think I have some serious issues **trigger** » Tamar, posted by pinkeye on May 12, 2005, at 14:53:48
hi pinkeye,
I too am troubled that your husband hits you and pulls your hair. That is completey unacceptable, or should be, to you! You do NOT deserve that.Can I ask a personal question? Did you marry for love, or was it an arranged marriage? Was your husband respectful when you first got married?
Would it be possible to divorce and live here alone in the USA? It sounds like you're very far off from making a decision like that, but I was wondering from a legal residence standpoint if you could even do it.
Also, it doesn't mean that YOU'RE the immmature one if your husband beats you or treats you poorly. HE is the immature one, the one with the problem.
I'm thinking of you! take care of yourself.
JenStar
Posted by pinkeye on May 12, 2005, at 16:59:52
In reply to Re: I think I have some serious issues **trigger** » pinkeye, posted by JenStar on May 12, 2005, at 16:43:36
I think I feel so worthless, and not deserving.. and not good and cannot be loved or respected. I don't know why I feel that. But that is the way I feel.
I am realizing more and more.. I feel totally not worthy of being treated with respect, or loved. Atleast by men. With women, I am fine.
Somehow I think I behave like a child still with men.. somehow I think it is ok for them to kind of spank me or teach me, or things like that. I have felt that way towards most men in my life.. infact almost all of them.I can stay here if I want to. I do have a Green Card. but I think I am not capable of staying alone or finding someone again and remarrying. I mean, emotionally, I am way too weak to do all that.
Posted by pinkeye on May 12, 2005, at 17:04:21
In reply to Re: I think I have some serious issues **trigger** » JenStar, posted by pinkeye on May 12, 2005, at 16:59:52
How do you guys feel about yourselves? Do you like yourself? Do you think yourself as a good woman basically?
How do you guys relate to men in your life? Do you get beaten? Or kind of illtreated?
I find that in spite of trying so hard, I always end up getting not respected..or liked really and myabe there is some real issue with me.
My new Ts theory is that it was all my father's upbringing.. He kind of managed to treat me like a child for a long time, and treat me like a wife, and treat me like a pseudo adult and gave me kind of pseudo independance. He would always say you can do what you want, but I always knew that I had to do things the way he wanted it. And my husband is like that very much. He keeps saying that I have full freedom, but he won't tolerate even if I deviate slightly from what he wants.
Do you guys get to do what you want?
Posted by pinkeye on May 12, 2005, at 17:22:54
In reply to Can I ask you all something? **trigger**, posted by pinkeye on May 12, 2005, at 17:04:21
And what do you guys feel about being a woman? I have serious issues around it.. possibly caused by my father's confusing treatment of me for several years.. he treated me like a tom boy, like a child, like a wife, like a man.. and he has caused me so much of confusion.. he has said things like men won't like you if you are smart, and at the same time telling me men will like me if I am smart.
And in my culture it was not a common thing for woman to be career oriented and work and everything.. especially in my family circle and in my town. most of my cousins didn't finish their degrees and most of them got married by 20 or something to a guy their parents chose. I was always the odd one out.. I used to study pretty well, and was constantly teased by all my cousins. They used to say if I am so brainy, no guy will ever like me. And I had huge issues even to go to engineering college. lot of my relatives said who will ever marry you if you do engineering and study so well? And my cousins always told me I was like a man. because I was so geeky.
And to top it all, I was extremely fat when I was young - was about 200 pounds. and my paretns used to make me wear so loose clothes, and there was like no shape.. and many days, I never felt like an attractive person for several years. only after I came to college, I started realizing there were other girls who were like me.
My dad caused me so much of conflict in my sexuality.. and I feel to be a good woman means to not work, and to stay at home, and to listen to whatever your husband says (possibly influenced by my culture)..But I do work - in fact I am in one of the best companies in the world, and I have a very highly challenging career. But it adds a lot to the conflict of wehther I am a good woman or not. And my hsuband follows a cult, where they say good woman don't work. And it only adds to the conflict so very much.
And I think perhaps one of the reasons I put up so much with men is because I somehow feel like I am not a good woman basically. And I feel actually if I protest against my hsuband and leave him etc, or stand up to my rights, then I am not a woman kind of thing. But sometimes I jsut take too much, and become extremely angry at my husband.. but that is mostly if I lose complete control.
Do you guys understand what I am talking about? Can some of you shed some light into what you think?
Posted by Dinah on May 12, 2005, at 17:41:57
In reply to Can I ask you all something? **trigger**, posted by pinkeye on May 12, 2005, at 17:04:21
Well, we mainly come from Western culture where achievement is prized as much for women as for men.
I don't think of myself as a woman at all. But I do consider myself a good enough person. Moreover I think that all people deserve basic common decency and respect merely because they *are* human. They don't have to earn the basics.
So it has never occurred to me to be with anyone who didn't treat me with respect. It is such a basic requirement that I don't even think about it. I also insist upon it for my son from my husband. More than lack of abuse, I also insist that he treat him with the respect he deserves, regardless of his age.
Actually, while my husband has never ever raised a hand to either of us, I don't think he meets my standards on the issue of respect. So I keep insisting that both of us be treated respectfully, but I don't always get that. It doesn't keep me from thinking I deserve it.
So I separate the two topics. Everyone deserves basic respect, especially from those who love them.
As a separate issue, I have decent self respect and reasonably accurate self esteem. I acknowledge that I am good at some things, and not so good at others. I know I'm smart, and that I'm not attractive. Like most people in the universe I'm a bit of good and a bit of bad.
But I'm not sure I can personally understand how important it is for you to be seen as a good "woman". I tend to see things in a gender neutral way.
Posted by pinkeye on May 12, 2005, at 18:32:58
In reply to Re: Can I ask you all something? **trigger** » pinkeye, posted by Dinah on May 12, 2005, at 17:41:57
hmm.. I understand..
But I think it is very important for me to a good "woman" - even perhaps more than being a good person and treated with respect as a person. Possibly because that is what I lacked the most.
And I have this notion, that you have to earn respect. That becuase you are a human - you may not be given respect.. I had to earn it all the time as a child - if I didn't do well, I wouldn't get respect, and I would get scolded at. My fahter has pounded on me so many times again and again and again if I lack in something - if I didn't learn english, or if I didn't read news etc. I was constantly terrorized about soemthing or the other in my life always. And my mother was too. Perhaps it is all because of that. I know I am blaming my fahter too much tehse past few weeks, but I want to understand exactly what happened.. otherwise, I keep blaming myself for everything.
My T says it was possibly because of the constant abuse I had that I had grown very uncomfortable with the concept of being a woman. She says I just resisted it, because I was not comfortable with my dad treating me like a wife. She says I grew very uncomfortable with my body because of it..and that is why I have these very basic doubts. She says it is common for kids who are kind of abused to have these doubts.
Posted by anastasia56 on May 12, 2005, at 18:45:31
In reply to Re: Can I ask you all something? **trigger**, posted by pinkeye on May 12, 2005, at 18:33:47
can you expand on the part about how your father treated you like a wife?
Posted by pinkeye on May 12, 2005, at 19:07:36
In reply to Re: Can I ask you all something? **trigger** » pinkeye, posted by anastasia56 on May 12, 2005, at 18:45:31
please can I not get into that now? I don't want to tell it again if that is ok with you. I am trying to not think too much about all the details.
I have beaten it up in other threads already. It wasn't really all that bad now that I think of it. thankfully there was no explicit sexual abuse.. even though there was huge violation of boundaries I guess.
Posted by messadivoce on May 12, 2005, at 21:10:43
In reply to Can I ask you all something? **trigger**, posted by pinkeye on May 12, 2005, at 17:04:21
Growing up, I didn't feel like it was safe to be a woman. My T and I worked a lot on that, actually. I was a tomboy as a kid and a teen. My dad never really affirmed me as a woman, and made me feel dumb when I dressed too "girly" around him. When I went to college I still never felt comfortable dressing up really pretty. I wore a skirt to a session once with my T and I felt soooo self conscious. It became an issue in the session that we talked about.
My T helped me become more comfortable with my sexuality as a woman. I didn't feel like my sexuality threatened him like I felt it did my dad. He even told me once he thought I was an attractive person. I know he meant the whole package, including my personality, but he must have thought I wasn't bad looking. ;-) I feel much more confident in myself as a woman now. I enjoy getting dressed up more even though I still do love my jeans. :-)
As for the men in my life...my dad never really treated me with respect, even the respect you show a child. He never told me I looked nice. I always felt suspicious of men. Which made for some really interesting sessions with my male T. My fiance treats me with wonderful respect and love and consideration, and I love it! He thinks I look good no matter what I'm wearing, too, and will tell me I look nice.
I guess I consider myself a good *person* more than a good woman. But I like myself as a woman. I'm comfortable with that. But I'm not super girly or anything. It's just not me.
Posted by JenStar on May 12, 2005, at 23:25:22
In reply to Can I ask you all something? **trigger**, posted by pinkeye on May 12, 2005, at 17:04:21
Pinkeye, I'm sorry to hear that you don't like yourself right now. I hope that changes. I hope you can see the wonderfulness in youself! Because you ARE an awesome, interesting, smart, fun person. And you deserve a man who sees that in you and treats you with respect.
I believe you T could be right - after so many years of being treated like a "second class citizen" by your dad -- even though he loved you of a kind, in his own strange way -- you are no longer capable of thinking of yourself like a first class person that you are.
It might be something you need to work on - respecting yourself and demanding it from others, esp. your husband. However, if your husband is steeped in a culture and tradition that believes woman are inferior, there is little chance he will ever change. Either you need to accept him and that life (no!!!) or you need to change yourself, which might mean leaving him.
I know that right NOW you don't feel emotionally ready to do it. But maybe there is a reserve of strength in you. I mean, if you're sad and lonely in a bad relationship, you're kind of alone anyway, right? Wouldn't it be better to be free and able to start over? I don't know if your relationshipw ith your hubby is to that point, or if it's salvagable. But I DO know that you will need to take a stand for yourself and make sure that you get the respect you deserve. There could be any number of reasons why you are the way you are, but you have the choice to change if you want to. At least, that's what I believe!
In any case, I do like myself most of the time, although there are many things I wish I could improve or change. I love my husband dearly. He loves me, treats me kindly. We laugh and joke and share things together. He is supportive. I love him and feel lucky to have him.
I wish you all the best.
JenStar
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