Posted by Vincent_QC on January 28, 2009, at 23:09:06
In reply to @Vincent, posted by Medline on January 27, 2009, at 18:35:51
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The RIMA Moclobemide is not as effectiv as MAOIs, but it's easier to handle and safer as no diet restrictions have to be followed. Could you explain your sceptimism? Do you think it is dangerous? MAOIs are approved and altough pretty safe, they are more dangerous than Moclobemide.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12131599
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9177952
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1393304You know everything about GHB because you used it once (at least what you thought was GHB). You bought it illegaly on the street and took it not knowing what dose it is? Then you recommend combining Benzos with the "cheap street drug" alcohol. Very responsible, thank you for the tip!
It's a GABA agonist, not an antagonist (which is the complete opposite). Pregabalin (Lyrica) and Gabapentin (Neurontin) are NOT GABAergic drugs. Baclofen has anxiolytic proberties and helps me not using GBL at night.
>The 50mg Cycloserine / day = An antibiotic ...The human body get used fast of them, you can'T stay on a antibiotic for the rest of your life...
For tuberculosis 10x-20x higher doses are used than for fear extinction. It doesn't act as an antibiotic at just 50mg. And it's not to be taken forever.
First you recommend Benzos then you wish them to hell. Benzodiazepine tolerance and dependence does not occur when someone just takes it on weekends. 48 hours+ is the completely wrong answer by the way. Baclofen has a mean half-life of 3.5 hours. GBL has a half-life of 3-5 minutes and it's about 30-40 minutes for it's metabolite GHB which is undetectable in blood or plasma after about 6-8 hours.
I don't live in Canada ;-). I think the dose makes the poison and for many drugs I use very low doses. For spasticity up to 300mg of oral Baclofen are prescibed, my maximum is 50. Selegiline is used in doses up to 20-30mg and for therapy-resistant depressives 60mg have been tried, I take 2mg! Cycloserine I take 1/20-1/10 of the usual anti-tuberculosis dose and 4mg Klonopin / week is not much too.
We will see if they stop working. :-). Maybe the Cycloserine has made the results permanent until then.
What has the partial NMDA-agonist Cycloserine to do with Oxytocin?!? GABA-B drugs you never tried, Pregabalin and Gabapentin are not GABAergic as I already wrote. Moclobemide is not known to cause Tachycardia when used in normal doses. It's more drugs that inhibit NE reuptake like Reboxetine. Future antidepressants will be triple reuptake inhibitors elevating the levels of 5-HT, NE, DA which is problably a better strategy than just raising the level of one of them.
Dose makes the poison. ;-) Selegiline for example increases lifespan of several animal species by inducing potent antioxidant enzymes.
Take care of you too, have a nice birthday!
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Hi Medline ;-)
That's ok...you was not rude...I have to admit that English is not my mother tongue and that's take me a lot of concentration to write a message on this board in english...I have no concentration and a lot pf memory problems since a little while and also a lack of energy...so I tend to not correct the mistakes I do before I push the "send" button....Sometimes my sentences are not well constructed so it's maybe why you don't understand some little things I wrote in my last post...I will try to explain it again...more well this time...lol
I don't want to argue with you about the results you have...I mean, that's very nice and i'm happy for you...and to see someone with the same disease that the one I have, and see that he achieve a remission state give me a lot of hope!!!
The bad things is that in my country, most of these drugs are not avaible (Exception of the Manerix and the Selegiline) or I will never be albe to get a PDoc or a Doctor and get them prescribted to me (Baclofen) because we have a limited choice of drugs and also not a lot of PDoc who want to take any chances with off-label uses of drugs to treat some disease like social phobia...
You know...If I had write my message in french yesterday...i'm sure all of this will never occur... In french I know what agonist and antagonist mean, I understand the principle behind all of these medical terms...I also understant inhibition also others terms like these...I just don'T take the time to write it well in english...
I was aware of the difference between the Baclofen and the Gabapentin or the Lyrica...I just didn't know how to explain it in english...
I ask my PDoc about the Baclofen and he denied the fact that he was appropriate in the treatment of the social phobia...he said that he never read any study about this... I should print your message and bring it to him! hahaha
I'm lucky because I found a PDoc who use MAOI's...and with my family doctor, I was able to explore more than just the usual Effexor-Xr drugs...I had severals tries of differents kinds of drugs...but it's another exceptional case...most of the others PDocs or Doctors I had before never wanted to put me on a MAOI...
In fact, all of them seem to not be aware of the existence of the Emsam patch...so you can see how it'w working here...I'm not able to get some Trazodone as a sleep aid when I take a MAOI...because the PDoc read it was dangerous for the Serotonin sydrome....but on this board, a lot of people get Trazodone as a sleep aid with the Parnate or the NArdil...so you understand why I was sepktical about your drugs cocktail...I just wanted to said that in my country, I will never be able to get all of this to be treat...
I have to find a single drug to do everything...or at least, the minimum amout of them (AD + something for the energy and something to help me to sleep at night)...it's the maximum I will be able to find and achieve...
I understant also the RIMA (Manerix) and how it's work...my last prescription from my PDoc was for the Manerix ...I take it only 3 days and I had to stop because I had an untolerable migraine that never fade away and an increasement of my anxiety, so I had to increase my Valium intake...so I just stop...I don't want to increase my Valium intake, since my goal is to be stable on a good AD's and stop the Valium...and never toutch a benzo drugs again in my life...I get addicted fast on them and got hospitalised last summer for a Xanax high addiction (more than 12mg/day)...so believe me, it was not easy to withdraw the Xanax and return on my low dose of Valium (20mg/day)...
Another point, I don't write that use benzo drugs with alcohol was a good things...I was just trying to explain that I found the GHB to be more effective if it's blend with the alcohol...alone it's just not very powerfull on me...and YES, I BUY IT from a drug DEALER since in the CANADA the GHB is not legal...they don'T sell it at the drugstore...so we have no choice and I don't know what was the exact dose...but I take only half of the dose I buy... and I feel nothing so I Take the other half after...for me it was not very effective, probably because I Was already on a high dose of Rivotril at the time (8 mg/day)...I never pretend that I know everything about the GHB...I don't even now what is the GLB... Anyway, it's not legal here, I don't even think about trying it to treat my social phobia...
I agree about the fact that the Manerix is less dangerous than other old MAOI's like the PArnate or the Nardil...and have less impact on the blood pressure and no food interraction....but for me it was not the good AD...too much anxiety and headache on it...
With the Parnate , I had too much high blood pressure problems and physical fatigue...and the Nardil was ok...but It was not very effective for social phobia...at 75mg/day...after 3 months...IT's why I want to try it again if the Marplan importation fail...at a more high dosage...something like 90 or 105mg/day...
The Manerix remember me a lot the Prozac effect at 30mg and more...a lot of anxiety, headache and daytime sedation at the same time, even if I was felling more excited on it...I hate that energy feeling that worse the anxiety... What i'm looking for, is something who will give me a positive energy level in the daytime, without worsing my social anxiety or my general anxiety...
If you search on this board...I write often that I Was addicted to benzo drugs...I never write that I wish them to hell...For some people they can be very helpfull...but for me since I begin to use them my life and my health state is just worse...Yeah, I had a good answer the first month I was on the Rivotril...but I became addicted really fast...the half-life of the Rivotril is between 18-50 hours in the blood...that's enought to develop an addiction...I think...but the worst are the short half life like the Xanax...very addictive...IF you don'T had in the past addiction problem on alcohol or street drugs, you are probably in the group of people who will never fall addicted to the benzo drugs...me i'm not lucky...I get addicted on a lot of substances in my life...alcohol and drugs...so no wonder why I had to double the dose after 1 month, double it another time after 3 months and double it again to end up at 8mg/day of Rivotril...and at this high dose, I never feel a relief of my anxiety or my social anxiety...it was just worse and worse...I think the depression is mainly due to the use of the benzo drugs in my case...Anyway, I succeed to withdraw to 2 mg in 3 months and switch to the Valium at 20mg...but the withdraw process always scare me because I always fear to have seizures...so I can't just stop them for now...
I was always able to stop cold turkey all the drugs I used...all the AD's, all the antipsychotics or anticonvulsives...but I was never able to stop a benzo drug for a more long time period of 2 weeks...without having a big return of anxiety and panic attacks.... I'm just addicted and I have to learn to live without this little pills...that's not easy...Anyway...sorry for the poor english, it's late here and i'm tired as hell...
For now, even if last summer I had a bad experience with the Xanax....I stay at 20mg/day of Valium...it's the only one drug I take...I meet my PDoc next week...we plan to import in the Canada some Marplan (another MAOI not avaible in the Canada)... We talk also about the Emsam patch...but that's very expensive so I will not be able to try it...it's why I want to ask him about trying just the oral Selegiline, something like 5 mg/day...at the same time than the Marplan or the Nardil if I can't have the Marplan...Do you think I can't take 2 MAOI's at the same time???
Anyway...for the Cycloserine, I just write that the human body get used fast of all the antibiotic, even in a small dose...I use one for my intestine (Flagil) and I have to double the dosage recently because it was not effective anymore...
Well...the important is that you know what you are doing and that you are feeling well on it...that's it!!! I'm very civilized and i'm not the kind of guy who want to fight with everyone...i'm normally really quiet in fact...and shy...I read your message this morning and I think of it all day long...I was not sure about what to answer...I feel a lot of aggressivity behind your message and that's not what I wanted...
It's just that we live in different country, and we have our experiences and we share it here...I try to find the good drugs for me...you find the good ones for you...since we are all different, I don'T think that a magical reciepe exist for everyone and can be apply to everyone with the same disease...
Anyway...I wish you good luck...;-)
Have a nice day!
Vincent ;-)
poster:Vincent_QC
thread:876329
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20090104/msgs/876917.html