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Re: hanging in there » SLS

Posted by shelliR on October 9, 2001, at 21:15:17

In reply to Re: hanging in there » shelliR, posted by SLS on October 8, 2001, at 20:27:44

> > Plus I doubt it would even work a third time. Second time it took 400mg to work. I don't understand why the body likes something the first time and if you go back and try again, it sort of snubs its nose.
> I guess withdrawing a drug might allow an opportunity for receptors and second messenger systems to play catch-up. They regroup and are ready for the next “attack”. I think Lamictal has treated me the same way it has you. The first time, it helped me more than it is helping now – and at half the dose.

I wonder if taking a long break from lamictal would help it to work again: like the receptors would be caught off guard again.
But I'd have to find a really strong diuretic. And my pdoc keeps saying one thing at a time, meaning the increase of nardil is enough for now.

> > Anyway, today I went to my pdoc willing to try effexor and he said that he wants to keep me on nardil and have me go up to 60mg and I should just take more valium and more aterex to sleep at night.
> I’m glad you are willing to consider treatments for which you already have some prejudice against. You never know.

Actually, I am curious to see if raising the nardil to 60mg might help. My last pdoc would not support any increase in sleep meds if I went up, so I have been basically tied to 30-45 mg of nardil to be able to sleep throughout the night. This doc seems willing to support my need for sleep at night. So I *am* hoping the increase will make a difference.

> > Re effexor:
> > The thing that scares me about effexsor is those flashing things that go around your head that make me think all is not right. No one should get electric shocks from a drug.
> I’m confused (not so difficult to do). Have you already tried Effexor? I think the electric-shock thing is associated with the discontinuation of the drug rather than its use during treatment. I experienced these electric shocks as withdrawal symptoms from Effexor, Nardil, Parnate, Ativan, and Klonopin. Effexor is not unique in this regard. The shocks from these drugs pretty much all felt the same.

I tried effexor for two days several years ago. I threw up 1 pill; next day threw up 1/2 pill, then gave up. I have never had any withdrawal symptoms when getting off prozac, or nardil and very few effects after withdrawing from valium. (sweaty palms for one day!) I have never had electric shocks. I actually have never heard of them associated with a benzo.

> I can’t comment with surety that SRIs are incapable of producing FMS or CFS. Your thinking is very sound, though. I don’t think you would have to worry about physical damage to your joints in the absence of alterations of the immune system.
> > The people who say that they never were the same again.
> I am interested to know more. I was unaware of this possibility. Can you describe what symptoms appeared and for how long after discontinuing these drugs they persisted?

Actually I can't. I would have to look through the specific cases in the California class action suit for Zoloft (or is it Paxil, I can't recall) to see whether claims were made for permanent damage opposed to "addiction". When people say they have symptoms long after they go off of effexor and others, I really don't know how long they mean. Certainly the drug companies are not keeping stats. They are still denying habituation.

> I understand how taxing on one’s self-esteem these illnesses are. For me, they produce a biological warping of thought to yield unrealistically negative perceptions of myself.

Well, at least a part of you recognizes that they are unrealistic. That's a start.

They also have relegated my life, as accurately perceived by anyone, to a mere fraction of my potential for achievement and my capacity to create and enjoy the experience of living.

You write beautifully; you put together an wonderful website after the attack. I know it seems like a fraction of your potental. I think that in some ways you may be absolutely be reaching your potential. Just not for very long times and in not as many ways. For example, I can't imagine that the story of your father could have been written any better, even if your depression was removed. I think you would probably disagree. It is natural to think , look at good I am with so little energy and motivation. Think of what I could do with all of me. But I again am talking about quality, not quantity. I'm not trying to minimize your frustration, just to give you another possible angle, which I happen to really believe. That story was perfect and any journalist would have been proud to have been its author.

I am nothing but failure when compared to those I grew up with.

That is the kind of thinking, that it is best to let yourself get entangled in as little as possible. Success is part talent and lots of luck and timing. I look at the very talented people who are working in frame shops (for one example), because it is next to impossible to make a living off of fine art. A tiny tiny fraction of people are recognized for their talents in that field. For every painter that has a successful show, there are dozens and dozens more that weren't linked in the right way to the right people to get shown. So having mental health is no guarantee of success, in the way that the western world defines it. But I do agree that you should have gotten your shot, and I'm sure you will.

> Having said all of that, I cannot now find sufficient words to describe how much I think of your intelligence, your effective and constructive use of that intelligence, your warmth, your caring, your social adeptness and approachability, your tenacity to work and achieve, your willingness to endure pain and hardship to maintain your life and personal affairs, and your richness and complexity of personality.

I will try to accept those beautiful words graciously and without argument. (I cried last night when I read them.) I only wish you could turn them around and see how much of you lives in the very words you have directed toward me.

Take care,





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