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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on March 6, 2003, at 12:03:50
And hoping you're ok.
Posted by justyourlaugh on March 6, 2003, at 13:36:39
In reply to Thinking of you, Miller, posted by Dinah on March 6, 2003, at 12:03:50
yah jyl,
come out and play,
jyl2
Posted by Miller on March 6, 2003, at 15:13:09
In reply to Thinking of you, Miller, posted by Dinah on March 6, 2003, at 12:03:50
Hi Dinah and jyl2 :)
I am ok. Definately not better than that. I have been reading posts all along. I just get tired of "hearing" myself whine all the time. I feel too negative to post on such an open forum.
Are you doing better Dinah? I know you were going through a rough time.
I meant to ask you if you see your shrink once a week or once every two? I am getting sick of talking to all these doctors and getting no results.
jyl2,
How are YOU doing? I am still in envy of your pink hair. Pink is my favorite color.
When is the next time you are to see your pdoc? I hope you get your meds stabalized.
:)
-Miller
Posted by justyourlaugh on March 6, 2003, at 15:24:35
In reply to Re: Thinking of you, Miller » Dinah, posted by Miller on March 6, 2003, at 15:13:09
and you wore your party dress!
bravo...
i like whinning..though.
i am supose to call and update him tomorrow-but he knows i never call on the "update"times.
i call the office and then he calls me in person right back......freak just thinking about that..
truthfully though,i am still al over the place,
but i dont think i should "cut"away the bad parts...
and i am in this"world"more and more!
its all good.
s
Posted by Dinah on March 6, 2003, at 15:27:54
In reply to Re: Thinking of you, Miller » Dinah, posted by Miller on March 6, 2003, at 15:13:09
Hi Miller,
I'm sorry you're not doing better than ok. I know how hard it is to post sometimes when you're feeling down, and I don't mean to pressure you to do so when I say don't worry about being too negative for us. It actually gives me some small feeling of comfort to see you post, even if it is negative.
Did something happen to cause the downturn? No need to answer of course. I just remember how positive you were when you left the hospital.
I am currently seeing my therapist twice a week. I really should cut down to once. He's been out of town for over a week now, and I'm not sure when he'll be back - family stuff, poor guy.
I've lately had a mini meltdown on board, a screaming match with one boss while crying semi-hysterically to another (my husband says it's darn lucky I'm good at what I do), and various other unpleasantnesses. The causes have mostly been too much work and instability caused by too little sleep and too much stress. So I haven't been posting much either.
I hope you feel better soon.
Posted by Miller on March 6, 2003, at 19:36:58
In reply to miller's in the house » Miller, posted by justyourlaugh on March 6, 2003, at 15:24:35
jyl,
it's all good when we are all here. I like it here. I hate it when I see people ripping on these boards. It's one thing when someone is upset, but it makes me feel like an idiot whne they tear down the whole experience. I feel like I am too dumb to see every negative effect from sharing with people. Yikes!! I don't know what brought that on. Talk about venting.As I was saying, I like to see everyones names bouncing up and down the threads. I always wanted a big family.
:)
LOVE
Posted by Miller on March 6, 2003, at 19:46:11
In reply to Re: Thinking of you, Miller » Miller, posted by Dinah on March 6, 2003, at 15:27:54
Dinah,
I never feel pressured by you at all. It is just my low self esteem that keeps me from sharing.
I have three things since I left the hospital that have eroded my hopes of becoming well.
1) When I came out I was very uncomfortable. I felt like a visitor in someone else's life. Instead of the discoomfort fading, it just seems to come in waves. I am not sure I am strong enough to invite myself into this life that doesn't feel like mine.
2) Trust and honesty. When I came out of the hospital, I felt as if I was ready to start trusting people and be honest. It backfired on me. There is a girl I work with. I really like her. I thought she was able to understand me. So, I decided to open up. We went to breakfast right after I got out. I was telling her that my husband said he doesn't know if he can stay married to me because of the suicide attempts. I was ABOUT to tell my friend how much that hurt when she said "I know EXACTLY how he feels. I wasn't sure I could remain your friend either." Maybe friendship isn't for me.
3) Things with my husband are going downhill so fast I can't even keep up anymore. I was so hopeful when I left the hospital that he and I could work it out. It's getting so bad now...
Now, isn't that the most light and fluffy post you have read in a while?
I wish I had a therapist I trusted and felt safe with. Then again, I am so tired of telling my story to a million doctors and not seeing results...
Sorry about the negative atmosphere I created. I am glad you ALL are here. This is the one place I feel like nobody will judge me TOO harshly. At least I know people care. And, I have made some great friends here. :)
-Miller
Posted by Dinah on March 6, 2003, at 20:05:40
In reply to Re: Thinking of you, Dinah, posted by Miller on March 6, 2003, at 19:46:11
Miller,
First of all, you NEVER create a negative atmosphere. Negative atmospheres don't arise from sharing your pain. They have other causes entirely.
I think people who aren't depressed and haven't seriously contemplated suicide just don't understand. I have the same problem with dealing with others around self injury, although thankfully that is easier to hide. Please rest assured that it isn't personal in any way. I do think it's probably hard to find people you can safely share those things with. Most people want friendships at a lighter level. My husband gets darned angry about it, because it makes him feel helpless. Is that the problem with your husband? I don't even share the suicidal thoughts with him.
I take it your on line therapist isn't working out? I understand your frustration. It is so hard to find someone with whom you have rapport.
I have this vague memory (and I may be confusing you with someone else) that you once said your husband was your best friend? It must be very painful for you to have a rupture in that relationship.
It sounds like you're experiencing some derealizaton or depersonalization, if it doesn't feel like your life is yours. A lot of psych meds can cause or exacerbate that, and maybe it's a side effect. That might not make it feel better, but it does mean that there is a chance for it to improve.
Please do stick around and post, Miller. This is one of the few places where it's really ok to talk about those things that it may not be ok to talk to friends about. We won't be angry with you or judge you for your negative thoughts. Unfortunately all we can offer are cyberhugs, not real ones. And it sounds as if you need some hugs.
It seems bad now, Miller, but there is the possibility for improvement. There are so many people on this board (and many more who are no longer posting) who once felt as you do, and are now so happy they lived to look back on that period. They're my shining examples that things can turn around. That the bad stuff doesn't have to last forever. The right combination of meds, some changes in life circumstances. There are possibilities.
Please hold on to that thought. (And remind me of it every once in a while.)
((((Miller))))
Posted by bozeman on March 6, 2003, at 23:23:46
In reply to Re: Thinking of you, Dinah, posted by Miller on March 6, 2003, at 19:46:11
Miller --
Dinah is right . . . . there are bunches of us who love you, and treasure you and your wonderful, gentle, insightful, very real posts . . . . who are just having too rough of a time of it ourselves right now, to do or say much of anything . . . but we're with you, in spirit if nothing else. My life SUCKS right now, in spades, and it's all I can do to hang on, but hang on I will, there is no WAY I'm going to let the b*stards win, you know what I mean? If it takes every ounce of everything I have, I *will* hang on . . . . for as long as God keeps me here, I'm here. You do the same, OK?
Let's make a girls pact that no matter what happens, we're here for the long haul . . . . Deal?
We're here for you, babe . . . with big warm hugs and mugs of hot chocolate, with marshmallows if you want 'em. ;-)
bozeman
Posted by Miller on March 6, 2003, at 23:56:08
In reply to Keep the faith . . . , posted by bozeman on March 6, 2003, at 23:23:46
Bozeman,
Thank you so much for such a nice post. It makes me feel better to know there are so many of you here that care.
I will gladly take the hot cocoa (With marshmallows) and sit with you for a while. But, as far as the girls pact, we will need to find a compromise for now. I can't agree to your terms. I am willing to say, that I will try very hard to do as you do. I am trying to stick it out. Really. As long as I can see a little hope, I will.
I'm sorry your life is sucking right now too. If you want to share...
:)
-Miller
Posted by wendy b. on March 7, 2003, at 8:02:47
In reply to Re: Thinking of you, Dinah, posted by Miller on March 6, 2003, at 19:46:11
Dear Miller,
I read you whenever you post, and regard you as a very strong lady. I remember some of your earlier posts about forgiving yourself, etc. It's not easy. I am sending good thoughts your way...
When someone on this thread above says all we can offer are cyber-hugs, but you probably need some real ones (cyber ones are actually very supportive in their own way), I thought maybe, just maybe (and I know this is hard to think about, too), a group therapy situation might be good for you. One that's run by a therapist who's done it before, one with rules of behavior, implicit and explicit trust between members, etc. May be hard to find, I know. But the short time I was in group, I was able to get some real validation from people who were nearby, real hugs if I needed them, real understanding from women (though they were younger than me) who had experienced similar - if not the same - feelings I had felt. It was a very great comfort. It's hard enough doing all the things you're doing now, especially managing the crisis in your marriage (very painful indeed), but if you can make a couple of phone calls, ask your therapist for referrals, etc., it may be a source of courage and strength for you.
Dinah is right about most people not being able to understand the suicidal tendencies unless they've been through these moments themselves. You have to be >very< careful who you let inside, who you can trust. It's a sign of the goodness that's inside you, though, that you at least tried with this friend from work. The other thing, too, is that work may not be the right place to share personal stuff, because sometmes word gets around, and people in general are still very ignorant about depression and suicide, no matter how many strides we've made as a society. That's another reason why the group therapy situation is good: everybody has things they don't want going any further than that room. Thus the first rule of the group has to be confidentiality... if it's not, or it's nebulous, don't join and find another.
Just hearing others express what they have been fighting - whether suicide attempts, SI, eating disorders, etc. - is a healing thing. Anyway, it's just a thought, use what you need, in terms of 'well-meant advice,' and throw away the rest.
I wish you peace...
Wendy
> Dinah,
>
> I never feel pressured by you at all. It is just my low self esteem that keeps me from sharing.
>
> I have three things since I left the hospital that have eroded my hopes of becoming well.
>
> 1) When I came out I was very uncomfortable. I felt like a visitor in someone else's life. Instead of the discoomfort fading, it just seems to come in waves. I am not sure I am strong enough to invite myself into this life that doesn't feel like mine.
>
> 2) Trust and honesty. When I came out of the hospital, I felt as if I was ready to start trusting people and be honest. It backfired on me. There is a girl I work with. I really like her. I thought she was able to understand me. So, I decided to open up. We went to breakfast right after I got out. I was telling her that my husband said he doesn't know if he can stay married to me because of the suicide attempts. I was ABOUT to tell my friend how much that hurt when she said "I know EXACTLY how he feels. I wasn't sure I could remain your friend either." Maybe friendship isn't for me.
>
> 3) Things with my husband are going downhill so fast I can't even keep up anymore. I was so hopeful when I left the hospital that he and I could work it out. It's getting so bad now...
>
> Now, isn't that the most light and fluffy post you have read in a while?
>
> I wish I had a therapist I trusted and felt safe with. Then again, I am so tired of telling my story to a million doctors and not seeing results...
>
> Sorry about the negative atmosphere I created. I am glad you ALL are here. This is the one place I feel like nobody will judge me TOO harshly. At least I know people care. And, I have made some great friends here. :)
>
> -Miller
>
Posted by Miller on March 7, 2003, at 8:21:30
In reply to Re: hugs, etc. » Miller, posted by wendy b. on March 7, 2003, at 8:02:47
Wendy,
You may have a really good idea for me. I am not sure if I would be able to share in a group situation, but it is definately worth a shot. If the group osn't too big, I may be able to.
It's funny that you said I seem to be strong. People see me as being very strong, but I never view myself that way. It's funny how we see ourselves. It's like the sound of your own voice. It never sounds the same on a recording as heard in your own ears.
Wendy, I hope things are going well for you. Thank you for the support and advise. I will let you know when/if I can find a group in my area.
:)
-Miller
Posted by wendy b. on March 7, 2003, at 8:41:23
In reply to Re: hugs, etc. » wendy b., posted by Miller on March 7, 2003, at 8:21:30
> Wendy,
>
> You may have a really good idea for me. I am not sure if I would be able to share in a group situation, but it is definately worth a shot. If the group osn't too big, I may be able to.
>
> It's funny that you said I seem to be strong. People see me as being very strong, but I never view myself that way. It's funny how we see ourselves. It's like the sound of your own voice. It never sounds the same on a recording as heard in your own ears.
>
> Wendy, I hope things are going well for you. Thank you for the support and advise. I will let you know when/if I can find a group in my area.
>
> :)
>
> -Miller
Miller,(Wow, what a quick response!) Yeah, group size is important - more than 5 or so and it's probably too big for you (was for me). Therefore, AA meetings, etc., are not as comfortable for some of us. Also, specifically tuned to your own issues (depression, suicide) would be best. Learning to trust others is part of the therapeutic work, so it's a process...
Strong is a relative term, isn't it? I get the same thing from other people, and say the same as you: I don't perceive myself as strong. Just stubborn, maybe, like the bull. Or maybe a cockroach.. ok, not a beautiful image, but you know what I mean... Can't kill 'em, no matter how hard you stomp on 'em. Lasted for millennia, you know, the prototypical Thing That Won't Die. I use this as a mental image of myself when I need it. Sorta like Gregor Samsa in "The Metamorphosis"... (Hope that links to Kafka and not some picture-book on insects...)
I have other suggestions about group therapy, so ask any questions you may have, others here, too, will chime in, as you know. Also asking about others' group therapy experiences or advice on how to find the right group over on Psychological Babble could be helpful - people here are very generous.
hope today goes well for you, whatever you're up to,
W.
Posted by wendy b. on March 7, 2003, at 8:47:15
In reply to Re: hugs 2 » Miller, posted by wendy b. on March 7, 2003, at 8:41:23
>..... the prototypical Thing That Won't Die. I use this as a mental image of myself when I need it. Sorta like Gregor Samsa in "The Metamorphosis"... (Hope that links to Kafka and not some picture-book on insects...)
Damn it! I never noticed the list that appears when Amazon has a number of suggestions... (The above DID link to some new-agey book on self-improvement....) When did we get THAT option? Try again:
"The Metamorphosis" - how's that?Pshew!
W.
Posted by justyourlaugh on March 7, 2003, at 9:50:22
In reply to Re: hugs 2 » Miller, posted by wendy b. on March 7, 2003, at 8:41:23
jyl,
i dont have any true friends,
when my sister inlaw shared with me through an email she thought she had post pardem depression,
i thought i could help her(i have 5 kids)
i was a little excited and jumped the gun a little i guess, i told her too much???about myself and depression..
i also shared that i was using seroquel in the evening...
well that was it for her...she never emailed me back and told my mom to tell me she is not online any more,,,:(we both have aol and she is on my buddy list...
she completely snubbed me when i saw her last(a month ago)and she didnt even attend the last family funtion..
she is scum,,,why doesnt even scum like me?
jyl
Posted by justyourlaugh on March 7, 2003, at 9:52:16
In reply to Re: hugs 2 » Miller, posted by wendy b. on March 7, 2003, at 8:41:23
i ment i didnt have any true friends
that live around me,
that could come over for tea:(
i hope i didnt hurt you
love
Posted by Dinah on March 7, 2003, at 9:56:01
In reply to friends for me?, posted by justyourlaugh on March 7, 2003, at 9:50:22
Ouch. To extend yourself to help another and get snubbed. Rotten feeling.
I remember a friend that had moved away who called me after I had a baby and told me that she remembered that I had had troubles with depression as a teen. She wanted to share that she had had post partum depression and invite me to talk if I needed to. I'll never forget her kindness.
You did the right thing. I'm sorry it was taken badly.
Posted by Miller on March 7, 2003, at 11:38:54
In reply to wait jyl wait!!!, posted by justyourlaugh on March 7, 2003, at 9:52:16
I knew what you meant. No apologies necessary. I totally understand about not having anyone in the area to trust. Location, location, location...
-Miller
Posted by Miller on March 7, 2003, at 11:42:25
In reply to Re: hugs 2 » Miller, posted by wendy b. on March 7, 2003, at 8:41:23
Maybe instead of a cockroach, you could liken yourself to an airfern. They are cute little plants that seem to never die. It paints a more socially acceptable picture!!
As soon as start to research support groups, I will start firing my questions your way. Thanks again for the info.
My day is going well enough since I am at work.
:(~-Miller
Posted by bozeman on March 8, 2003, at 1:24:46
In reply to Re: Keep the faith . . . » bozeman, posted by Miller on March 6, 2003, at 23:56:08
Miller
I've been told I make the best hot cocoa in the world, so ya better get over here. :-)
Please don't take what I said about the pact as me trying to twist your arm or anything. Someday I'll tell you my story . . . not being able to bring myself to commit suicide because of the havoc it would leave for the people I love . . . wanting to die, finding out I was going to die, preparing to die, then not dying, then having to live with the life I thought I was going to leave, and all the mistakes I made, and trying to make it good anyway. All I'm saying is, no matter how hopeless it seems, or how much we think we know, we never quite do know what God has in store for us until we get there. Truly. Bad stuff sometimes happens that we can't prevent, but I don't believe that God does that to us. I do believe he can help us find ways to deal with that bad stuff, though.
That's all I was trying to say with the pact thing -- that we've both been through hell in our own ways, come through so far, and that there's strength in numbers. The walk is easier if you're not alone.
I know you're suffering now, and I am truly sorry for that. I continue to pray for you, Miller, that you find peace, and that your husband realizes in both his mind and heart that this is an illness you are fighting, like a broken leg or cancer even, that causes you pain and makes you behave not like yourself, but that you can, and will, still *be* yourself, in the between times, and after you're through it.
Sleep well, dear soul
bozeman
Posted by wendy b. on March 10, 2003, at 21:37:27
In reply to Re: hugs 2 » wendy b., posted by Miller on March 7, 2003, at 11:42:25
> Maybe instead of a cockroach, you could liken yourself to an airfern. They are cute little plants that seem to never die. It paints a more socially acceptable picture!!
yeah, guess i still like the cockroach, though. socially acceptable was never part of my vocabulary (even though i've been told i'm a nice person who can be taken out in public). it is an ancient creature, has a hard shell, delicious when added to stir-fry.......................
> As soon as start to research support groups, I will start firing my questions your way. Thanks again for the info.
Merely a suggestion, dear. It's hard to accomplish even the smallest things sometimes, when you have so many pressures. Making phone calls and gathering information is time-consuming and depressing. Or apathy sets in and you can't even imagine phoning another living soul for the rest of your life. I get like this, wonder if your depression hits you like that too.
Anyway, please check in and tell us what's happening now...
fondly,
W.
Posted by Miller on March 11, 2003, at 11:08:28
In reply to Re: Miller, checking in..., posted by wendy b. on March 10, 2003, at 21:37:27
Wendy,
Thank you for thinking of me. Not much is happening right now. Believe it or not, I am considering ending all my shrinks. My pdoc makes me uncomfortable beyond belief. I see him for 15 minutes (if I am lucky). He asks so many personal questions. I guess it would be different if he was providing therapy, but he isn't. So, I have an appointment with my family doctor to see if she will take over the meds. It should be no problem. I wouldn;t care if she asked me personal questions since I have known her for years.
My therapist is also disappointing me. I don't know what I will do about him yet. I have seen him well over a year and he just "doesn't get it" when it comes to me.
As far as my marriage counselor goes, I have only seen him twice, so I will give him some time.
I haven't had a chance to research groups in the area because of my never-ending shrink appointments.
I hope you are not as frustrated as I am. :)
-Miller
Posted by wendy b. on March 12, 2003, at 14:58:30
In reply to Hiya Wendy, posted by Miller on March 11, 2003, at 11:08:28
> Thank you for thinking of me.
Lots of people have you in their thoughts, not just me...
>Not much is happening right now. Believe it or not, I am considering ending all my shrinks.
Believe it or not?!? Ask anyone on this board who's been in therapy, there comes a time when you just have HAD IT up to here (gestures to forehead)! One gets tired of examining everything everything everything to death, wondering about your motivations, beating yourself up over the past, etc., etc., and thinking: "Shit, how come I'm the only one doing this?" (as opposed to my mother, my sister, my spouse, and whomever else is driving me nuts)... We have all had this feeling where the box is full, already...
> My pdoc makes me uncomfortable beyond belief. I see him for 15 minutes (if I am lucky). He asks so many personal questions. I guess it would be different if he was providing therapy, but he isn't.
Sometimes I wonder if some of them live vicariously through us... I have a good pdoc (who's actually a family med MD, but specializes in ADHD), who just asks about my symptoms and my responses to the meds. That's all. He doesn't want to know all the latest details about my personal life... I like this approach.
> So, I have an appointment with my family doctor to see if she will take over the meds. It should be no problem. I wouldn;t care if she asked me personal questions since I have known her for years.
That's the nice thing about family med drs, once you establish a relationship with one, and it feels right, you don't have to go around to three different people and explain your symptoms over and over again...
> My therapist is also disappointing me. I don't know what I will do about him yet. I have seen him well over a year and he just "doesn't get it" when it comes to me.
Time for a new therapist? If they don't get it, it's not your job to make them "see;" either they have insight into your situation or they don't. I had a tough-love therapist (last one), when what I really needed was empathy and support, dammit, not somebody who made me feel worse when I walked out the door... She had no clue about the ADHD symptoms I was having, and just made me feel lazy and apathetic.
> As far as my marriage counselor goes, I have only seen him twice, so I will give him some time.That's a good idea, I think. Do you have any reactions yet at all - pro or con? What kinds of things is he telling you and your husband?
> I haven't had a chance to research groups in the area because of my never-ending shrink appointments.
Well, maybe if you just stick with the marriage counselor and the family doc for a while, that's enough. You can't do everything all at once. It all takes the time it takes, and your timeline for absorbing the insights you gain, and then changing your life for the better, is yours alone - don't let anybody rush you.
> I hope you are not as frustrated as I am. :)
Well, like I said, the last therapist was a bomb. She also did meds (a nurse practitioner specializing in psychiatry), and for a while I liked the "one-stop shopping." But as I told the new guy, maybe you need at least two people helping you. Last one almost withheld prescriptions unless you kept to a strict schedule of therapy sessions. I guess that finally did it for me; I thought it was unethical. Like, if I didn't wanna look at my belly-button this week, it didn't mean I was recalcitrant or hostile, or whatever she thought. Most recent time I e-mailed her to ask to see her for a meds check (before I bailed), she e-mailed back and said I should pay my outstanding bill. So I replied that she should tell me what I owed her... and wrote her again a week later to remind her. Still haven't heard back from her for months and months... Lucky for me I have a new pdoc to write scrips - what if I didn't and had run out of meds? I guess she never thought of that! "Frustrated" didn't even come close...
And then, of course, there are all the other frustrations in my life... (Dreamer, I know what you're thinking - and you're right! Partly...)
Miller, write back when you can, and keep on fighting the good fight, as they say,
with a hug,Wendy
This is the end of the thread.
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