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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 29. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by wishingstar on February 15, 2007, at 23:12:58
Heres the email I just sent to Ginny:
"Hi Ginny,
I've done some thinking (whats new?) and I think I need a break from therapy, for my sake and for yours. I'm starting to feel the same way I did in partial with Randy the second time around. If I'm not willing to do what I need to do to improve, then there's no sense in wasting either of our time right now. Nothing is going to change on its own and I guess I'm just not willing, for whatever reason, to do the things I should be doing. I'm aware that I'm choosing my own destiny here, but I just cant (or wont) do the things you want me to do. I guess I need to take some time and come back when I'm ready to actually try to help myself.
I'll still come on Monday and we can talk then I guess."She pushed WAY too hard today and I'm just done. It's not just because of today - I just believe what I wrote. If I'm not willing to help myself, then I'm wasting my time and her time and there's no reason to keep coming.
Still planning to go on Monday.
I feel terrible. Stared at the wall for an hour tonight. Cried into a teddy bear. I'm not a teddy bear kind of person. I'm just so tired.
Posted by MidnightBlue on February 16, 2007, at 0:21:26
In reply to Looks like I just quit therapy, posted by wishingstar on February 15, 2007, at 23:12:58
Wishingstar,
Don't give up yet! You can do it! Keep trying. I'm pulling for you. You NEED Ginny. She wants to help you. Hang in there.
Hugs (the safe and teddy bear kind)
MB
Posted by vwoolf on February 16, 2007, at 2:35:04
In reply to Re: Looks like I just quit therapy » wishingstar, posted by MidnightBlue on February 16, 2007, at 0:21:26
Sounds like there's a cruel adult voice in you saying you don't deserve therapy because you can't pull yourself together and do things properly. So you should quit. You're just not good enough.
And then there's a small hurt child voice saying please don't abandon me, please be kind.
Ideally the two need to be integrated, so that the adult voice becomes kinder and can nuture the hurt part in yourself. Until then it would be best to stay in therapy and learn how to do it.
At least, this is what my therapist would say.
Posted by Barna on February 16, 2007, at 7:12:16
In reply to Looks like I just quit therapy, posted by wishingstar on February 15, 2007, at 23:12:58
I can relate to all this. I quit therapy because I was not willing to do what I needed to do to improve (end a 6-year relationship and start a new life). I know the solution but as you say, I just can't (or won't) do the things I know are better for me at this moment. I also think I need time. Perhaps I'm just procrastinating a decision, but that's the way I feel now. It is difficult for me to take the decision because I don't know for sure if this will be the best decision, and I am very attached and scared. I was able quit therapy, but I don't know if sometime I will be able to end this real life relationship that somehow obstructs my personal growth...
Posted by wishingstar on February 16, 2007, at 9:33:03
In reply to Re: Looks like I just quit therapy » MidnightBlue, posted by vwoolf on February 16, 2007, at 2:35:04
Thanks for the responses everyone.
I do need Ginny. But I'm wasting my time and hers with going right now. Yesterday we spent the entire hour discussing (her pushing, my defending myself that is) whether or not I should lean on a certain friend who has been much less than reliable and pretty insensitive to what I'm going through on many occasions. Other times, he's helpful. I told her it's just not safe enough and it'd hurt worse to be ignored by him right now than anything else. She disagreed. She wants me to call up friends, have them come over, go out in the evenings, but I'm just not going to do it. As bad as I feel here alone, I could feel MUCH worse if any of that went badly. And it has before. Please dont anyone try to talk me out of that right now.
At the end of the session she said she was just frustrated because I talk about how I want to feel better but I dont make moves to go out with people, dont do anything particularly active to feel better when she suggests it. Then, to her credit, she also said that it was probably her own issue more than mine and she apologized because she said she'd been following her own agenda yesterday more than mine (Well no kidding).. but the bottom line of it all is true. If I'm not going to do anything to help myself, theres absolutely no use in going (and paying) to talk to someone and tell them how I'm still not doing anything to help myself. I can do nothing all by myself. The connections between issues, the cognitive components (cbt-type stuff) are something I really have no problem with and either I already know and believe it when she says it, or I know but dont believe it, and her saying it three more times isnt going to make a difference.
Yes, the little girl inside of me is screaming, like you said vwoolf. She doesnt want to be alone. But the reality is that what I'm doing is getting me nowhere and only frustrating everyone involved. I love Ginny and I think shes great, so it's not that shes a bad match or anything. Theres just only so much talking about what you "should" do that can be beneficial (or I can stand!)
I called a friend the other night when I was on the verge of SIing and got through it. I really am trying. It's just not good enough.
I called my psychiatrist today to try and get an earlier appt. I've been off all meds for about 7 weeks and dont go in until the 28th. There werent any. I asked the nurse to have him call me back about hospitalization and hes going to. I want him to promise that if I go today, he'd let me out by Monday afternoon so I can be at work Tues (theyre closed Mon). We'll see. I dont think I've ever felt this bad for this long (about a week) ever.
Posted by peddidle on February 16, 2007, at 12:28:35
In reply to Re: Looks like I just quit therapy, posted by wishingstar on February 16, 2007, at 9:33:03
Wishingstar,
I am not going to try to talk you out of your decision, but I am going to tell you my thoughts on your situation.
I know all too well about wanting to get better, but not wanting to do the stuff that it takes to get better. I have been seeing my current T for roughly 2 or 3 years, and I still don't think I'm there yet. I keep going, though. Wanting to get better, but not having the energy or the motivation to do it is part of the illness. I'm sure Ginny understands that.
You said that you still feel like you need Ginny. Do you think that maybe you are trying to push her away before you get too attached? I know that feeling, and I fight with it every day. She wants to help you; you are not wasting her time.
I know it could feel worse if any kind of social gathering went badly. I am dealing with this too. You're right, it is safer to just avoid the situation altogether, and not risk the pain. But if you never take that risk, you could also be missing out on some really good times. Yes, some of them may end badly, but you will always have the good times to look back on. Can we ever truly know happiness unless we have tasted sadness? Can we ever feel real comfort unless we have felt pain?
>
> I really am trying. It's just not good enough.**That's the depression talking, and I'm sure you know that. Just being able to say "I really am trying" means that you are doing well enough.
>
> I called my psychiatrist today to try and get an earlier appt. I've been off all meds for about 7 weeks and dont go in until the 28th.**I'm sure some of what you're feeling will be alleviated once you get your meds figured out. It is also good that you kept your appointment with Ginny for next week; you should hear her thoughts about the email you sent her.
If you want to take a break from therapy, that is your decision. I'm sure it can be beneficial to venture out into the real world and reflect on what you have learned. If you think that it will be good for you to see how well you can manage on your own, then you have every right to do that. Taking a break may help you realize what you truly want to accomplish, and give you some insight as to how to reach your goals. If you decide to take a break, maybe you could ask Ginny if she would mind if you sent her an email once in a while (every month or so), just to update her. Knowing that you can still keep in contact with her on an informal basis might make you feel better.
I'm sorry if any of this sounded like a lecture, and I can understand if you don't listen to any of it. As I'm sure you know, this is all very "do as I say, not as I do". You have been very helpful to me, and I wanted to try and return the favor.
Let us know what you decide.
((((wishingstar)))) (teddy bear hugs)
Posted by wishingstar on February 16, 2007, at 15:14:01
In reply to Re: Looks like I just quit therapy, posted by peddidle on February 16, 2007, at 12:28:35
> I know all too well about wanting to get better, but not wanting to do the stuff that it takes to get better. I have been seeing my current T for roughly 2 or 3 years, and I still don't think I'm there yet. I keep going, though. Wanting to get better, but not having the energy or the motivation to do it is part of the illness. I'm sure Ginny understands that.
>***I'm not sure. She said shes frustrated. I've only been seeing her for about.. 4 months.. so this isnt a pattern shes had to watch forever.
> You said that you still feel like you need Ginny. Do you think that maybe you are trying to push her away before you get too attached? I know that feeling, and I fight with it every day. She wants to help you; you are not wasting her time.
>***I dont know. I guess its possible, but I dont really feel that way on a conscious level. I really want her to be closer in some ways. I feel like I'm putting up my emotional walls to protect myself with her right now though, thats for sure.
> I know it could feel worse if any kind of social gathering went badly. I am dealing with this too. You're right, it is safer to just avoid the situation altogether, and not risk the pain. But if you never take that risk, you could also be missing out on some really good times. Yes, some of them may end badly, but you will always have the good times to look back on. Can we ever truly know happiness unless we have tasted sadness? Can we ever feel real comfort unless we have felt pain?
> >***Please, please, please dont try to talk me into doing anything social right now. I'm trying the best I can and I do know isolating is bad.. and being social is worth the risk... I really do. I'm feeling super sensitive to this right now though. But I dont think there is any lack of pain or sadness to compare happiness against for me at this point. The really good times in my past just havent been that good - whether I was being social or not. It just isnt very rewarding for me.
> > I really am trying. It's just not good enough.
> That's the depression talking, and I'm sure you know that. Just being able to say "I really am trying" means that you are doing well enough.
> >***Ginny said that. Not in those words, but close enough.
>
> **I'm sure some of what you're feeling will be alleviated once you get your meds figured out. It is also good that you kept your appointment with Ginny for next week; you should hear her thoughts about the email you sent her.
>***I hope so. But in 8 years, I still have never found a med that helps.. so I'm not putting too much hope it in finding "the one" in the next few weeks.
> I'm sorry if any of this sounded like a lecture, and I can understand if you don't listen to any of it. As I'm sure you know, this is all very "do as I say, not as I do". You have been very helpful to me, and I wanted to try and return the favor.
>***Its okay. I understand where you're coming from and my frustration is really with myself and the situation, not with you in any way (I feel like maybe I came off a little short. i hope not). I appreciate your help, really. Thank you.
Not surprising that its 4pm and my psychiatrist hasnt called back. Looks like if I go to the hospital, I'll be taking myself without any contact with him. Oh well.
Posted by wishingstar on February 16, 2007, at 15:16:29
In reply to Re: Looks like I just quit therapy, posted by wishingstar on February 16, 2007, at 15:14:01
I forgot to add that I had a dream with my T in it last night. I cant really remember the details, which is frustrating... but I was at her office. She wasnt there and it was obvious to me (I'm not sure how, but it was) that she hadnt been there in awhile and wasnt going to be back anytime soon. It was sort of dark in her office, and dingy... nothing like what it normally looks like.
Talk about a symbolic dream, huh?
Posted by Scentedgarden on February 16, 2007, at 16:17:59
In reply to dreamed about her last night, posted by wishingstar on February 16, 2007, at 15:16:29
hi, i really do feel for you, and im glad you shared about your dream, as i have lots dreams too, and they are usually symbolic..they have gone from comforting and safe...to waking up screaming...from my bedroom window being smashed by a stone my therapist had thrown into it..i thpought my floor was really covered in glass...!!so i can relate to what your going through...and wanted to say, youre not alone!!
I know its soo tough, and nothing i can say will probably help you very much... but all i know to say to you is what ive been learning to say to my inner child when she is upset with withing her mummy...(therapist) is gently, ssshh there, ssshhh sssshhit'll be okay... everyhting is allright... look to the bright future you wishing starre heading towards...look how strong this will make you ..
anyway that probably isnt very helpful as i said, but i am crying as i write it,as i can so relate to how you're feeling inside...I know its very hard but plz try to do somethings to care for yourself well...think what would she want you to do...she'd want you to be kind perhaps and good to yourself..hug yourself, pamper yourself, and rest if you can... and keep posting as people here really do care....
seems lots of us on here are thinking about the intensity of the trelationships we have built up with our special therapists over the years...
you are NOT alone,. ..i hope there is some comfort to you in my words... i really really do.
God bless you wishing star, what a beautiful name..!
SG
Posted by wishingstar on February 16, 2007, at 16:58:30
In reply to dreamed about her last night, posted by wishingstar on February 16, 2007, at 15:16:29
My pdoc finally called. I was all ready to go to the hospital.. I'd put clothes together and everything. Well, he said dont go. He said they wont admit me for feeling like I do.. only if I was more dangerous to myself. Great. Plus he told me who the doc on call is and I HATE him. My doc is going to leave me a perscription for aderrall to pick up on Monday. I think its an odd choice but whatever. It doesnt matter.
Just when I think I cant possibly feel any worse or any more desperate, I prove myself wrong. In all the years I've dealt with depression, I've never, ever felt this bad. I dont think I realized it was possible.
I called Ginny and asked her to call me back. I know, weird given the email I sent, but I'm just desperate. But she most liekly wont get the message until tomorrow.. she said she checks them on days shes not working around noon. Theres a pager number for the counselor on call but its probably not her (there are a lot of counselors) and I dont want to talk to anyone else.
Posted by frida on February 16, 2007, at 22:38:17
In reply to desperate, posted by wishingstar on February 16, 2007, at 16:58:30
dear wishingstar...
i'm so sorry you are feeling so badly... :-(
i'm glad you called Ginny...I hope she calls you back soon..
maybe you need to lean on her and let her help you...guide you through this...you don't have to go through this alone, she wants to be there for you.i know how hard it is when you feel so hopeless...
you deserve help...
thinking of you,
Frida
> My pdoc finally called. I was all ready to go to the hospital.. I'd put clothes together and everything. Well, he said dont go. He said they wont admit me for feeling like I do.. only if I was more dangerous to myself. Great. Plus he told me who the doc on call is and I HATE him. My doc is going to leave me a perscription for aderrall to pick up on Monday. I think its an odd choice but whatever. It doesnt matter.
>
> Just when I think I cant possibly feel any worse or any more desperate, I prove myself wrong. In all the years I've dealt with depression, I've never, ever felt this bad. I dont think I realized it was possible.
>
> I called Ginny and asked her to call me back. I know, weird given the email I sent, but I'm just desperate. But she most liekly wont get the message until tomorrow.. she said she checks them on days shes not working around noon. Theres a pager number for the counselor on call but its probably not her (there are a lot of counselors) and I dont want to talk to anyone else.
>
>
Posted by wishingstar on February 16, 2007, at 23:09:35
In reply to Re: desperate » wishingstar, posted by frida on February 16, 2007, at 22:38:17
Thank you for responding... I'm starting to feel like everyone hates me here. :(
Didnt hear from Ginny today but I'm sure she'll call tomorrow afternoon. Not sure theres really anything she can say, but its worth a shot. I'm hoping it'll at least be a little comforting. I need her (or someone) so, so badly right now. But the truth is, theres nothing anyone can do. I need a real-life hug and a shoulder to cry on. But none of the people I could call would be reliable for that.
I tried a suicide hotline tonight. No help at all. The woman sounded bored out of her mind with her job.
I hurt so bad. So bad. I didnt know this was possible.
Thank you frida for hearing me and caring.
Posted by frida on February 16, 2007, at 23:19:01
In reply to Re: desperate » frida, posted by wishingstar on February 16, 2007, at 23:09:35
Dear wishingstar,
you are welcome---
I do understand the pain you feel, I've been there...and i know how hard it is to hang on and need so much to be held...and to cry with someone who cares.
The only thing that helps me too when I feel as desperate is to cry with someone who lets me...and who cares and holds my hand at least and tells me that it will be ok...
and really really connecting to my T...it does help to know she knows and to share the depth of these feelings...and just feel comforted.Maybe if you can share this with your T...she may surprise you and be there for you in a way that can help you?
I wish there was someone who could give you a hug right now.
(((((wishingstar))))))
Frida.
Ps: I understand that need so much...I've been lucky enough to find a physical T that my T recommended to me, and I can't tell you the difference it has made to me..we've developed a wonderful connection and it is so important to me to have her hold my hand or hold me if I cry. I've cried as a baby and she has held me for a long time and this has truly helped me out of the despair I was feeling and I feel so often. Reaching out to my T also helps a lot..hearing her say that she cares about me and is with me and that we'll make it through this...it means a lot to "surrender", stop fighting a little and just feel taken care of...
Just sharing..i wish you could cry and be held by someone who truly cares.
wishing you peace and relief soon
hoping Ginny calls you.....hang on....
F.
Posted by caraher on February 17, 2007, at 2:06:27
In reply to Re: desperate » frida, posted by wishingstar on February 16, 2007, at 23:09:35
> Thank you for responding... I'm starting to feel like everyone hates me here. :(
(((wishy))) nobody hates you here!
Posted by sunnydays on February 17, 2007, at 10:30:27
In reply to Re: desperate » frida, posted by wishingstar on February 16, 2007, at 23:09:35
I don't hate you. I've been reading your posts, I just haven't been able to think of anything to write. I wish I could make you feel better somehow. I'm so so sorry you're hurting. Hang in there. That's the only thing I have to say. Just keep hanging on.
sunnydays
Posted by Poet on February 17, 2007, at 11:19:30
In reply to desperate, posted by wishingstar on February 16, 2007, at 16:58:30
Hi Wishingstar,
I know how hard it was for you to call Ginny. When I leave messages for my T they start out with an apology for calling her. Actually my emails to her start out with an apology, too. Anyway, I hope she calls you back today.
I wouldn't want to talk to someone on call instead of my T, either. I wouldn't feel comfortable because s/he doesn't know me. C'mon Ginny call.
Poet
Posted by vwoolf on February 17, 2007, at 11:34:21
In reply to Re: desperate » wishingstar, posted by Poet on February 17, 2007, at 11:19:30
I don't hate you at all. I think you are so much like me. It sounds as if you are really hurting. Let yourself be helped by Ginny - there is nothing shameful about it. You don't have to be strong and push her way. The way to healing is through the pain and the kindness.
Be kind to yourself, and accept her caring. It is precious, and if you listen carefully to yourself, you will acknowledge that you want and need it.
Warm hugs
v
Posted by wishingstar on February 17, 2007, at 13:37:16
In reply to Re: desperate » wishingstar, posted by frida on February 16, 2007, at 23:19:01
Thanks everyone for replying. Really.
I havent heard from Ginny yet, but its only about 2:30, so hopefully I will later today. She usually checks her messages around noon I thought, but who knows. I'm sure she'll call if she can. If I could, I'd call her back again and say nevermind, dont call. Not because I'm mad... because it was dumb. Yes, I need her, but theres nothing she can say to me right now and I think I'm abusing the "call me if you need me" thing right now. I've talked to her 3ish times on the phone in the last 10 days, not including today. Thats too much. I regret calling. But even if I called and said nevermind, I'm fairly sure she'd call anyway. But I'm sure I'll be apologizing when she does. Heh.
Still a mess today. Just.. blah. Does anyone ever feel just scattered and confused and dazed when they feel really, really bad? It's scary. I feel like I'm really losing it. I've been SIing again and its ok I guess, but not the help it used to be.
Thanks everyone for validating how I'm feeling and saying you hear me. I think thats all I'm really looking for right now, since I know no one can fix anything. Thanks.
Posted by peddidle on February 17, 2007, at 14:11:06
In reply to Re: desperate, posted by wishingstar on February 17, 2007, at 13:37:16
It doesn't sound at all like you're abusing the "call if you need me" thing. It seems like you really need her right now, if nothing else than just to vent to someone who you know will listen and validate what you have to say.
I've never done any kind of SI, so I can't really help you with that. Maybe you could try drawing on yourself with markers whenever you feel like SI-ing?
I'm sure she'll call you back, but if she doesn't call by the end of the day, maybe send her an email or leave her another message. Maybe she's just out for the day and she'll check her messages later. I'm sure she'll call though.
Just take it one day at a time, or even one hour at a time. Stay safe.
Posted by bil on February 17, 2007, at 14:38:44
In reply to desperate, posted by wishingstar on February 16, 2007, at 16:58:30
Wishingstar-
I wish that I knew what to say that would be helpful- and don't feel that you have to apologise for needing a hand right now... if you were drowning, you wouldn't feel that you have to say 'sorry' for asking someone standing on dry land to throw you a rope!(((HUG)))
Bil
Posted by wishingstar on February 17, 2007, at 20:12:46
In reply to Re: desperate, posted by bil on February 17, 2007, at 14:38:44
She didnt call today. :(
Honestly, I'm pretty surprised. Shes usually very good about calling back quickly. My best guess is that she just didnt check her messages today... which seems weird, but who knows. Shes been reliable enough times in the past that I'm not terribly upset. I really needed to talk to her, but I'll survive. My only fear is that she did get the message and I'm correct that I'm pushing too hard against the boundaries, so she was trying to put a little space between us. But now would really not be a good time to do that. I was half-crying on the message yesterday and I never have cried in front of her before, so I'm sure if she got it, she knew something big was up.
Hopefully she'll call tomorrow. Besides, its the weekend... I dont get to expect that she'll call me on the weekends. That isnt part of her responsibility.
Posted by LadyBug on February 18, 2007, at 1:08:55
In reply to Didnt hear from her :(, posted by wishingstar on February 17, 2007, at 20:12:46
My T rarely checks messages on Weekends. I left her a message on Friday before 1:00 pm and she must have gone for the day and didn't get my message. So I know how you feel right now. I want to call and leave her another message telling her never mind I'll just see ya next week at our appointment. I have a lot going on right now and under so much stress, I wanted to go see her on Monday but now that won't happen because she has no idea I called.
I bet she didn't check her messages or she would have called you back. I'm sure you'll hear from her soon. It's hard to wait when we need them right now- not tomorrow. I'm sorry you're hurting.
LadyBug
Posted by wishingstar on February 18, 2007, at 9:48:57
In reply to Re: Didnt hear from her :( » wishingstar, posted by LadyBug on February 18, 2007, at 1:08:55
Yes ladybug, thats probably it. Last weekend she told me she'd check her messages on Sat and Sun in the morning and around noon in case I needed her, and I guess I just assumed she meant she did that every weekend. I guess that isnt the case. I see her tomorrow (Monday) anyway so it isnt the end of the world, although if she doesnt get the message until tomorrow morning I'll be really uncomfortable walking in there. My second appt of the week is cancelled this week too... great timing huh? Oh well. Maybe she'll call today.
Posted by wishingstar on February 18, 2007, at 13:17:46
In reply to Re: Didnt hear from her :( » LadyBug, posted by wishingstar on February 18, 2007, at 9:48:57
She called and said she was sorry and she hadnt checked her messages yesterday. I wasnt feeling to terrible when she called but it was very comforting to hear her voice and know that shes knows whats going on. She questioned my pdoc for telling me not to go to the hospital and we both laughed about a dumb thing he'd said on the phone. It's good to feel connected. I see her tomorrow so I'm looking forward (sort of) to that.
Posted by Poet on February 18, 2007, at 18:23:15
In reply to nevermind, she called :), posted by wishingstar on February 18, 2007, at 13:17:46
Hi Wishingstar,
Hooray for Ginny for calling and hooray for you for calling her and telling her you needed her. Good luck tomorrow.
Poet
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