![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by DisposableDoll on April 25, 2006, at 17:52:56
I don't know what to say. I tried to write my thoughts down in Microsoft Works to be pasted here after editing, but decided that was a bad idea, since what I wrote totaled 5 pages and that was after I was conservative with the length! I know no one wants to read all of that. Look, let me try to summarize part of it, anyways. I have a crush on my counselor, which is obvious from the title of this piece. At first, I simply decided I liked my counselor as a person. Then, I think I eventually began transferring my father on to my counselor and I felt like I was daddy complex-ing him, somewhat. I tend to look for older men to replace my father to a degree, so I was kind of used to this. I thought that it was odd that I was thinking of my shrink in this manner, however, because I hadn't considered him old enough to be my father, even though he technically is old enough. I am in my early-mid 20's and my shrink is almost exactly 21 years older than me. However, he didn't seem old enough to be my dad because I am used to having older parents. My father is 16 years and a few months older than my counselor and my mother is a little over 14 and a half years my therapist's senior. Plus, while my therapist has a son, his child is much younger than myself and my therapist actually looks a bit younger than his age, to me. Later, after my fiancé left me, I kind of feel like I started transferring my ex-fiancé onto my therapist, instead. Even when I was daddy complex-ing him, he reminded me in certain ways of my then, fiancé. After my fiancé left me, at some point, the crush developed. However, I think some of my feelings for my therapist are actually genuine and not transference. I know it is hopeless and he would never even secretly want me romantically or sexually, let alone admit it or act on it, but I still want him.
He is not traditionally handsome, I don’t suppose, but I think he is kinda cute, physically speaking. Also, I find him intelligent, empathetic (I think he genuinely cares, and I really like empathy in a mate), well spoken, non-judgmental (I think most shrinks are judgmental, but feel he sincerely isn’t), a good listener, open minded, he is interested in some of the same things that I am, I’ve been opening up to him, he has actual let me in a little into his own world, though not so much, etc. and I feel all of this is lending to me liking him. I like some little things about him, too. For instance, the way he actually seems kind of bashful, sometimes. Normally I am not attracted to shyness in men, but I find it kind of cute when he acts this way. Although in some ways he is the polar opposite of my last boyfriend, in some other ways, he does remind me of him- such as the empathy, and in some ways, his appearance, and a couple other mannerisms and habits. I may be partially transferring my boyfriend on to him, but I don’t think that is all of it.
Even before I started feeling romantically towards him, I wanted him to hug me and touch me. I have always really needed physical affection and I often crave it. It seems I don’t get enough. And when I like someone, especially in that fatherly way, I want them to hold me and show me affection. At first my counselor never touched me, but one day he did put his hand on my knee when he was comforting me. However, afterwards he started touching me as though I were fire. Touching me lightly, hesitantly, then quickly pulling away, but sometimes repeating the same hesitant, quick, fleeting, light touch afterwards a few more times. Now I want him to touch me even more, but he hasn’t in so long.
Anyways, I know it is completely ridiculous to even think that it may be possible to have a romantic/sexual relationship with him for several reasons. Let’s see- 1. He’s married- happily, I believe, since he has said to me that he loves his wife dearly. 2. He has a child. 3. He seems to view himself as an old man and me as an adolescent, although puberty is certainly over for me and has been for awhile, and he is hardly old. 4. He keeps forgetting that I am above the age of 21 and keeps thinking I am below drinking age, instead. While I can be mature in some ways, in other ways I can be childish, and until recently I’ve been living at home with my mother, so perhaps this is why he forgets. Plus, people are often telling me I look younger than I actually am, and I think that is likely to be partly responsible, as well. This probably won’t help out on number three. 5. Given his job position, he would probably feel it unethical to do anything with a patient, regardless of that person’s age or his marital status/happiness. Not to mention that he knows the break up has left me very lonely and vulnerable. 6. He would prob. also be afraid of jeopardizing his career, although personally, I think we could keep it secret. I know those are famous last words, but I really do. 7. I’m not exactly desirable. Oh, by the way, I have actually thought up counter arguments to all of this for when he offers these things up as excuses.
I think about him holding me, cuddling with me, talking romantically- and at times, down right vulgar- to me. I imagine us just hanging out and I day dream about seducing him and about him making love to me. I imagine he’s either the really gentle type, or he’s a complete freak in bed. Possibly both. I think he’d go to some extreme or the other. I imagine how intimate it would be just to be naked around him. I imagine how bashful he would be and how at the same time, he’d be trying to reassure me, and I think about him holding me afterwards. I think about him sometimes when I masturbate. While I know it is crazy, I keep thinking about him and how I can seduce him. Logically I know it isn’t possible, but I keep thinking about it as though it were possible, trying to come up with ideas of how to impress him with my best attributes- mental, emotional, and physical. I even tried on clothes with him in mind. I asked myself, “Would my therapist find this outfit sexy on me?” And things of that nature. Having him like me on a non-physical level is most desirable, but I want him to like me in a romantic/sexual way as well, which means I prob. need to make myself look physically attractive in order to make him think of me sexually and not just as some cute little confused kid, thus the clothing idea. Though, I can't imagine that it is possible for him to find me attractive, and that is very disheartening.
In a way, I think part of me has been thinking of this almost as a game. At one point I decided that even if I couldn’t get him to admit he wanted or liked me and even if I couldn’t have him, I wanted to make him want me, and hopefully get some sort of idea that he wanted me by the tone of his voice, the look in his eyes, etc. I think in some ways I am transferring both my father and my ex-fiancé on to him and I think in some ways I am just really lonely and he honestly does seem to hold attributes I find attractive, plus we already have intimate conversations going on. Furthermore, if he would have me, he could feed my need for some intimacy without the fear of getting too close. Also, I think I am also using him and this seduction idea as a diversion to turn my attention from dwelling on the loss of my boyfriend’s romantic affections and my confusion, pain, etc. surrounding that.
I was telling a friend of mine about this and they asked what I would do if he actually accepted my advances and they said this in a challenging tone, as though they thought I would freak out and try to back out of it, but honestly, if he wanted me, I think I’d let him have me, if you know what I mean. I do want to point out that while I am a tad obsessive, I am not the type of person who would intentionally hurt him or his family. I mean, true I would sleep with him if he would consent, which I know would be harmful and I know it’s selfish and wrong and I would feel guilty, but I would probably do it. However, I would NEVER do anything else. I would never physically assault him or his wife or child. I would never sexually assault him. Nothing like that at all. While my attraction to him is partially sexual, it is more than that. It is greatly affectionate and almost innocent, aside from the fact that he is married. I want to tell him how I feel, but I don’t expect him to reciprocate my feelings and even if he did, I don‘t expect him to admit it, or act on it. It bothers me knowing he doesn’t feel the same or even remotely close. Yet, I still want to let him know how I feel and to discuss it. I would hope he would be flattered and I wish, though unlikely- very unlikely- that maybe he would even let me know I would be attractive to him if he wasn’t married. *sighs* But I am afraid to tell him. I am afraid it will make him or myself feel awkward or nervous and that it will always be on our minds in therapy from there on out. I have been so at ease with him and I don‘t want to jeopardize that. I am also afraid it will frighten him off from touching me at all, although even now he does so rarely and in an odd fashion, as though afraid. I think it is that “try not to touch so much” rule shrinks have, conflicting with his natural empathic desire to physically comfort through affection. Anyways, I am also afraid he will not be so likely to talk to me after hours when I am freaking out, etc. because he won’t want to do anything extra for me as he has been doing (he’s that kind of go the extra distance shrink) because he may fear that might encourage my affections or give me the wrong idea. Worse, yet, I am afraid he might recommend I see a different therapist because he may think I have become too attached to him or that my feelings or his resulting will screw things up, but he is the best mental health professional I have ever had and I don’t want to lose him. He is the first one that has been a real joy. I prefer him to every other counselor, therapist, nurse practitioner, psychologist, and psychiatrist that I have ever had.
He doesn't know how I feel, I’m pretty sure, though he is VERY perceptive at times and has picked up on things I had NO idea I’d let him in on, so it is possible he does have some inclination already, but I doubt it. I know it's wrong (he's married and has a son), and hopeless.......but I am getting obsessive about it. I tend to obsess. It's in my nature. Not dangerously obsessive. As I said, I'm not going to kill his wife or rape him or anything. I'll just drive myself psycho about it. While I have taken to very subtly trying to seduce him, I am nervous about doing too much for fear that he will notice and get weird about it. Now, I know I need to quit thinking this way, but it is difficult. I am just so damn lonely and whether it’s hopeless or not, I like this man. I don't want to switch therapists because he is the best therapist I have EVER had and I feel very comfortable talking to him. I would recommend him to ANYONE and EVERYONE. However, it is actually starting to hurt me somewhat....this wanting him and not being able to have him. I try to tell myself it's not possible and logically I know this, but my mind keeps drifting back to it. As has been stated, I think to some degree I am using his as a diversion from my other problems and dwelling on my ex and my dad, but to some degree I think I genuinely like him. Although, I know he will reject me romantically and sexually, as I have also said, I feel the desire to tell him how I feel just to have it out in the open and perhaps talk about it, but I am afraid that he will suggest I seek another therapist or at the very least that things will become awkward. I am so confused. I just want him to hold me and tell me he isn’t going anywhere. I know this part does sound a little psycho or dangerous, but there was a time when I was thinking about harming myself just to get extra attention from him and I fantasized about it, but I didn’t. I didn’t have to. He notices me anyways and I didn‘t want to be hospitalized, plus, it felt so fake even thinking of doing that. I don’t want to be fake. I did eventually hurt myself, but not because of him. I self harm, anyways, I had just taken a hiatus from it, kept it in control, etc. Then something set it off. I actually didn’t tell him that I did it for a long time, even though I love his attention. I didn’t actually do it for attention and I was afraid to let him know that I had done it because I didn’t want to be hospitalized, but I felt the need to let him know because I wanted someone to realize how bad things were getting for me. That I was taking drugs again and I was hurting myself again and I was thinking about suicide. I did eventually tell him about the self harm, but only after sufficient time had passed that I thought he wouldn’t report me, and I told him I had quit, but I haven’t. I got really suicidal, but I didn’t tell him that either, and eventually I ended up giving in and checking myself into a psych ward and admitting to staff that I had suicidal thoughts and I did still hurt myself. The last time I saw him, I admitted I had been suicidal, but hadn’t told him due to fear of hospitalization. Anyways, I have no intention of hurting myself for his attention. I want a different kind of attention from him, and I don’t want to be fake and that would feel fake.
I have thought about trying to run into him outside the office on purpose, but making it seem accidental, so we could have a chance to chat in a different setting, but the few times I have seen him out he is usually in a hurry to get going and he is afraid to say much to me for fear of confidentiality issues. Everyone around knows he is a therapist. Anyways, I don’t want it to sound like I’m a crazy stalker. I mean, I wouldn’t show up at his house or anything or watch him shower or follow him everywhere and read his mail. I’m not that bad off. Anyways, the thing is, I still want things to work out with my boyfriend and the situation is very confusing with him. I tell myself just to relax and wait to see how things go, but then I tell myself my hope is only making the wound stay open longer and I am confused and frustrated and lonely and I don’t know what the hell, I’m doing and I‘m trying to take my mind off of things and trying to have a half *ss relationship with someone that has some intimacy and stability, but no commitment and not too much intimacy because I don’t want to commit to anyone else right now and I am still in love with my ex and I feel jaded. I also know it’s best just to leave the whole shrink situation alone because losing my therapist would REALLY hurt me and I think would be detrimental to me. I do not consider myself a threat to him or his family at all. The only way I could possible be any kind of threat is if he actually reciprocated, I would prob. Go through with the affair and it could hurt his family or career, but I would try desperately to keep anyone from knowing. I know it’s wrong, but I want him. *sighs* Help! Should I tell him or will he leave me? I need him right now as my therapist and don’t want to damage our relationship by throwing this emotionally charged information at him that involves the both of us……and I don’t want to lose him. *sighs* I am so confused. If I don’t tell him, could I hint at it and be safe in thinking that he wouldn’t have enough evidence to push me away? Like telling him I dreamt about him or something? Thanks everyone! Oh, one more thing- do I sound crazy? And yes, I can handle being told that I do....just be nice about it....as nice as one can be when saying you sould crazy, psycho, nucking futz, etc.
Posted by starloree on April 25, 2006, at 18:44:55
In reply to Crush on My Counselor- Out of Control?, posted by DisposableDoll on April 25, 2006, at 17:52:56
oh gosh, i know what you're going through!!!! i was almost exactly where you are, a few weeks ago. i didn't exactly decide it was/is transference, cause i myself don't see, with my life, who i could be assicating my T with, cause he's nothing like my father or anything...i just sum it up as being attracted to him,pure and simple. he is only about 2 years (at most) older than me, he is a grad student (supervised) at my university. so of course, like you, i have been trying to coincidentaly place myself in the building where i know he frequents (the psychology building) even though i have no calsses there! i made a plan that if i did run into my T, i would tellhim that i was in the building because it is the quietest, and i was doing some homework. but i haven't had to use that excuse yet, because i haven't actually really talked to him outside of session. there were a couple times, right after session when i was waiting to be picked up, and he was around the area, and we kind of talked, but not really, cause i couldn't manage conversation!!!!!i felt so dumb afterwards, i mean here'smy big chance to wow him with my conversational skills (not just talk his ear off about my problems), and i act like an idiot! anyways just to let you know,you are not crazy!!!!! you should tell your T, a lot of people suggested that to me, and i tell you, it was hard at first, but i figured, hey, this guy is getting paid to listen to me, and to try to help me, so this is a problem i am dealing with (it was absolute TORMENT!!!! for a while there) and i should get this off my chest. he was VERY understanding, and handled it well, especially for a grad student!!!! so anyways, i will just stop here and let you know you aren't crazy!
starloree
Posted by Tamar on April 25, 2006, at 22:06:29
In reply to Crush on My Counselor- Out of Control?, posted by DisposableDoll on April 25, 2006, at 17:52:56
Hello, and welcome to Babble!
It sounds as if you’re in a pretty hard place right now. But you seem to have a lot of good insight into your feelings for your counsellor.
One thing I wondered: do you think it’s possible that your not-telling about the drugs and self harm is somehow related to your not-telling about your love for him? Are you so afraid of his rejection that you’d rather hurt yourself than risk him hurting you? If there’s anything in that idea, I guess I’d say that if he’s a good therapist he’ll be able to let you down gently. He can’t be your lover because it wouldn’t be good for you; it wouldn’t be therapy. But he can be sensitive and caring towards you and he can demonstrate his fondness for you within therapy. It sounds to me as if you’re struggling with a sense of risk; maybe he can help you with it.
I am familiar with the urge to confess love… It never gets easier. When I love someone I want to tell them. Always have, always will. I think it’s natural. But it sounds to me as if you fear losing the whole relationship if you tell him how you feel. Maybe that’s a place to start. Maybe you could talk to him about how important the relationship is to you and how you’re afraid of doing or saying something that might jeopardise it. And maybe he’ll be able to reassure you. If he’s a good therapist he should be able to handle that kind of thing. What do you think?
Good luck,
Tamar
Posted by bent on April 26, 2006, at 8:12:13
In reply to Crush on My Counselor- Out of Control?, posted by DisposableDoll on April 25, 2006, at 17:52:56
No you do not sound crazy! This is a very common event for people in therapy. And I think if you try to talk to someone that has never been in therapy before, you do end up feeling crazy, because they just dont get it - they cant get it. That's why a place like this is great to talk about this stuff. Everyone here can understand your feelings and wont judge you for it. I think if you look around in some of the archived posts you will see where many others have felt like you do right now. One of the biggest things I can tell you is talk to him!! Its hard and scary but for most people its a huge relief to be able to talk about all these feelings. When you dont have to carry them around like secrets. Good luck and let us know how things go.
Posted by joslynn on April 26, 2006, at 13:10:58
In reply to Re: Crush on My Counselor- Out of Control? » DisposableDoll, posted by bent on April 26, 2006, at 8:12:13
Read "In Session" , the first book on the list on the top of this web page. It is really good about explaining this.
Posted by orchid on April 26, 2006, at 14:46:22
In reply to Crush on My Counselor- Out of Control?, posted by DisposableDoll on April 25, 2006, at 17:52:56
Hi DisposableDoll,
Welcome.
I think what would help you is to start working on the father issues more. Start by questioning yourself what your dad meant to you - if he was available to you, if he loved you, was he abusive, what you loved him the most for, what you missed from him etc.
I think you are right about you transferring your father onto your T. I did that too, and the route that I followed was to question myself more and more about my feelings about my father. And finally I realized that almost all of the intense longings were directly related to my needing some approval and love from an authority figure. And I finally managed to find a way to give myself my own approval, and that reduced these longings quite a bit. And I no longer have these kind of intense longings.
And I think you already have done a tremendous job in gaining insight into it yourself.
Read babble a lot, and it will help you. Read about the feelings of everyone here, and you will gain ways and insights of helping yourself.
Posted by DisposableDoll on April 27, 2006, at 21:58:01
In reply to Re: Crush on My Counselor- Out of Control? » DisposableDoll, posted by bent on April 26, 2006, at 8:12:13
Thank you for responding and for telling me what I'm feeling isn't crazy. I did try talking to a friend of mine- who isn't in therapy- about this and they basically did make me feel crazy. Actually, they compared some of the things I was saying to sociopathic behaviour, but I know they know I'm not a sociopath or I wouldn't be feeling romantically for someone would I? I mean sociopaths don't care for others do they? Anyways, I hve done what you said and looked through the archives and I've read a lot of things I can relate to concerning this and other things as well. Sometimes I feel like I'm reading my own thoughts that someone else has written down. I have thought about telling him, but I don't want to make things weird or lose him as my therapist. If I lose him, I'd prob. quit therapy altogether and just do the meds solely. *sighs* I think I will tell him eventually, but part of me wants to make sure I earn his trust more, so that he knows I'm not going to be dangerous and so he knows I am sincere and my feelings aren't perverse (well for the most part ;) and also I almost want to hold off so I can flirt with him more and try to seduce him. If he isn't expecting it with guards up, it should be more affective right? Oh, who am I kidding......I can't seduce this man. :( Thanks for wishing me good luck. I'll keep you updated. :)
Posted by DisposableDoll on April 27, 2006, at 22:00:52
In reply to Re: Crush on My Counselor- Out of Control?, posted by joslynn on April 26, 2006, at 13:10:58
Hey Joslynn! Thanks for the tip. I have an amazon account and will try to get this and check it out. :)
> Read "In Session" , the first book on the list on the top of this web page. It is really good about explaining this.
Posted by DisposableDoll on April 27, 2006, at 22:13:31
In reply to Re: Crush on My Counselor- Out of Control?, posted by starloree on April 25, 2006, at 18:44:55
Hey Starloree! Thanks for responding and letting me no that I'm not crazy or alone. :) I know what you mean about trying to make intelligent conversation around your shrink and ending up making an idiot of yourself. I sometimes feel stupid during our therapy sessions because I start to think critically about how I am wording things. It’s not that I always find it impossible to speak articulately, but sometimes you’re just too emotional or more often I find that I am too tired, to express myself poetically and sometimes I get so tired all I want to do is curse and babble. I don't want to have to worry about sounding intelligent or eloquent in my therapist's office, but to an extent, I do worry. Although he has actually complimented my insight and the way I verbailized certain thoughts and feelings. Anyways, I am glad that you got your feelings out in the open and that it went well and you feel relieved. Part of me wants to tell my shrink, but part of me wants to wait. I just don't want to throw our therapist-client relationship away or damage it for the sake of professing my feelings for him. We'll see how it goes. I think it'll come out eventually if we continue to see each other theraputically.
Posted by DisposableDoll on April 27, 2006, at 22:29:47
In reply to Re: Crush on My Counselor- Out of Control? » DisposableDoll, posted by Tamar on April 25, 2006, at 22:06:29
Hey Tamar! Thanks for the response and welcome. J Thank you for saying you thought I was being insightful about the matter. *sighs* I tend to be introspective and at times, analytical, so I guess that helps. J And I can certainly relate to you on wanting to confess your emotions. I have gotten really bad with the urge to do this lately. I think it is because I am so lonely. *sighs* As for the drugs and self harm……I did eventually tell him about the drugs and self harm. I think I was genuinely afraid of hospitalization and making things worse for myself in that way. However, I was concerned about how he would feel about the drug use and about my recent promiscuity. At the same time, I almost liked being able to tell him, because I think he genuinely cares and I like to think that he’s caring about me and worried about me. I don’t mean that to sound like I want him to be upset. I just like being cared about…..especially by people I like, anyways. Also, I liked talking to him about sex because I want him to see me as a sexual being. However, telling him about the drugs and promiscuity did concern me and actually, I am still somewhat concerned about having told him. ESPECIALLY about the promiscuity. I am afraid that he won’t understand my motivation for what I do- afraid he’ll think I’m just some stupid, skanky, shallow, slut. I know he probably doesn’t see me that way…..at least part of me says that….says that he does understand…..but part of me worries about that. L Also, I do think that I withhold certain information from him because I am afraid he will judge me for it, that it will change his opinion of me for the worst, and although I want to talk to him about these things, I’d rather keep it secret than to risk making him think less of me because it wouldn’t be worth that. I honestly STILL think, however, that it is good for him to remain my therapist because I still think he is the best therapist I have ever had and I also feel more comfortable with him than any other therapist. Even though I withhold some things, I feel as though there are certain things I can talk to him more easily about than other therapists because he is so open minded and non-judgemental in general and compassionate and I don’t know….he just relaxes me. Anyways, I really liked your suggestion to tell him how important our therapist-client relationship was to me and telling him about my fears of jeopardizing and damaging it. I think he will try to reassure me and it may just be enough to help me tell him that I have romantic feelings for him. Thanks Tamar and thanks for wishing me good luck. :)
Posted by DisposableDoll on April 27, 2006, at 22:59:34
In reply to Re: Crush on My Counselor- Out of Control? » DisposableDoll, posted by orchid on April 26, 2006, at 14:46:22
Hey Orchid! I like your name. Actually, I once dreamed I named a child that. Thanks for the welcome and the response in general. I had planned to work on father issues with my shrink, but when my boyfriend and I started having problems, I thought I was going to have a break down and I started focusing on our relationship more than anything else in therapy. I also didn't dwell too much on father issues because I felt and still feel like my emotions concerning him are stupid and overly dramatic. I keep telling myself my relationship with my father or rather lack there of is not a big deal. It’s common place and much worse could happen. I tell myself I am just being a whiney baby, a drama queen, etc. My father never abused me, he never abused my mother really, he didn't die, he didn't kidnap me, he didn't constantly talk down to me, etc. He wasn't someone that I never got to meet and always wondered about. I knew my father, well somewhat at least. Furthermore we had a positive relationship for the most part, for years. So, I tell myself I have nothing to whine about- especially after all of this time. I should be healed by now. It was no big deal. It happens all the time. It wasn’t traumatic. It was nothing, right?
I loved my father and felt close to him. He said he loved me, too. However, things changed. My parents divorced when I was 4 years old and my mother got custody. My father did get visitation rights and I saw him again when I was 5 or 6. My father and I saw each other on alternate weekends in the beginning, but only during the day. As I got older, I began to spend the night with him and sometimes see him on consecutive weekends. During longer school breaks I sometimes stayed several nights. Honestly, I don’t think the divorce was really what hurt me so badly. Dad and I had some problems during our relationship and on my 13th birthday my father didn’t call, didn’t stop by, didn’t send a card, letter, or present. He didn’t do anything and the way things were going, I hadn’t expect him to. I haven’t seen or heard from my father since that day, either. I have since tried to contact him, but to no avail. His family says he knows that I want to talk to him, yet I haven’t heard from him. Oddly enough we don’t run into one another even though we live in fairly close proximity. I was hospitalized a few years ago and my family tried to alert him so he could contact me if he wanted, but he never did. I’m not sure if he got the message though, just to be fair. Yet, part of me wonders if he would care if I died.
When I was younger, I know I had positive experiences with my father, but I know not everything was perfect. He had a bit of a temper and he and my mother had some fights, but he never hit her that I can recall. He might have threatened to, and he once threw a large hard back book at her head (which she ducked and it missed her), and things of that sort, but I don’t think he ever hit her. He also had epilepsy. I am not sure, but I think it was temporal lobe epilepsy and he sometimes took what my mother referred to as “crazy spells” where around the time of a seizure, he pretty much acted schizophrenic, psychotic, etc. Then there was his unusual secrecy, like how he didn’t tell me of my other older sister or introduce me to her until sometime after his divorce from mom, then only because he wanted to see her mother to try and steal her from her husband, and he sprung it on me as though it were nothing or as if I already knew. For the most part, though, I remember my dad in a good light, but a dim one. I have some bad memories of him, but a lot of good ones and I remember him as having some bad characteristics, yes, but also some positive ones, as well. However, on the down side, I do feel as though I didn’t get to know him nearly as well as I would have liked, that I missed out on a lot when it came to having a relationship with him, that his love was far from unconditional, that he helped cause me to miss out on having a closer relationship with his other daughters, and that he abandoned, rejected, ostracized, and hurt me. Sometimes I dream about my father. Sometimes I dream we are talking again.
When dad was done with me, none of the rest of his family contacted me. To be fair, I didn’t contact them, either as I had never felt particularly close to his side of the family and actually felt nervous and awkward around them. I felt like I didn’t belong. In mom’s family though, had I suddenly stopped talking to them, they would have contacted me and asked me what was going on and ask how I was. Dad’s family never really did interact with me, though, unless dad brought me over to their house. I call mom’s family, MY family far more often that dad’s side of the family, because they don’t feel like family and I don’t think they think of me as family, really.
Anyways, the thing is, it seems I have always been drawn more to older men, anyways. I do not like them simply because they are older and male however. Many things factor in, but the fact that they are both older and male does make me slightly more drawn to them. It seems I have been drawn more to older males since I was a child. Some children are like that, don’t you think? My niece was always reaching for the men excitedly. I remember that while I loved my aunts and uncles, grandpas and grandmas, and my mother and father, I tended to gravitate towards the older males of the group. It wasn’t that I loved them more. I was just drawn to them more, closer to them, something. I don’t know how to say it. There was some added pull there. Perhaps it is simply because, in my family, the older males tended to be more playful and laid back, while the women were more concerned with keeping us clean and well behaved and feeding us and that sort of thing. Perhaps, instead, it is biological. I don’t know the answer to that. I do know that my grandfathers died on me very early on (one at 4 and one at 6). My mother and father divorced when I was very young (4), as well and I lived with my mother. I continued to see my father every so often, for awhile, but he eventually quit seeing me or speaking to me at all by the time I turned 13. My uncles gradually grew away from me and my male cousins for the most part never were much interested in me nor I them, besides this one older male cousin I had, who was old enough to be my uncle. Eventually, he ended up turning more towards picking on me as I developed my own opinions and it became evident that our political views were not going to be the same. I didn’t have any brothers, only sisters, and for some reason I never could make male friends, even though my female friends did with ease, and it wasn’t like I was ultra girly. Sure, I liked to play with cute stuffed animals, make believe I was a mommy, pet the kittens, put on makeup, and watch things like, “My Little Ponies,” but I also liked to play in the mud, pretend to be warring spies, watch “Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles” and hold frogs. Still, it just never seemed that guys wanted to be friends with me. I didn’t make friends easily, period, however. When I got older, guys seemed mostly interested in me for sex, whatever else they could get out of me (homework help, those fries off my plate, etc.), they hated me, or they didn’t know or care that I existed. It was using me, hatred, or nothing. Of course, as I said, I didn’t have many friends of either gender, so I guess it worked that way with everyone pretty much, but a little more so with guys. I did end up getting close to a few guys however, but mostly that was either online friendships, or it was a romantic relationship. However, I felt that some of the romantic relationships were about more than sex at least, and that the guys genuinely cared for me otherwise, which is good. I guess what I am trying to say, though, is that I have always been very affectionate with older males, but my grandfathers died early in my life and my parents separated, but I still got to see my father. However, by the time I was a teenager, my uncles had grown away from me, a couple died actually, my dad severed all ties with me and basically, his family and I were separated as a result. So, I lost all of that older male companionship early on, and I always found myself drawn to it more than the maternal companionship.
My entire family was always very physically affectionate. My mother carried me for quite sometime as I loved being picked up. Various members of my family hug and kiss one another. We cuddle up together on the couch when we watch movies or sometimes just when we’re getting sleepy. We sleep in the same beds together often times, sometimes 3 generations together in bed at once. When I’m sick I lay my head in my mother’s lap or on her shoulder and she puts her arm around me, pats me or strokes my hair. My cousin and I fall over on each other in the car on road trips and fall asleep. When I was younger there was a lot of tickling, wrestling, carrying people around (in your arms, over your shoulders, on top of your shoulders), hoisting people up on your feet, bouncing kids on your knee, piggy back rides, etc. Even after I got older, I found myself running from my brother in law who’s trying to tickle or wrestle with me. However, I don’t feel like I get that very much anymore. Actually, my brother in law hasn’t tried to body slam me in months or even a couple years, and he doesn’t even try to tickle me very much these days, though I still get that impulse to run sometimes when I see him coming because I think I sense some slight action that signals a tickle attack….maybe the smile he‘s giving me looks a bit mischievous. Then I find out he really is just smiling at me and it was a false alarm. LOL. I do still get hugs and kisses and people willing to snuggle, but I only feel comfortable sleeping in bed with a few people anymore and sometimes I feel weird being touched by some people at all, even though I have no logical reason to feel this way, and at other times I am affectionate with them. Yet, a lot of times I crave physical affection. I almost never get hugs from men anymore, ESPECIALLY men that are older like my father. I don’t even hardly get pats on the back from them. I miss that. I remember feeling happy about just getting to take money from men’s hands at a fast food restaurant. Isn’t that weird?
Anyways, *sighs* I got started on that partially because I was thinking about when I was younger, I was very affectionate with my father. Holding onto him, hugging him, holding his hand, kissing him. My family kisses on the mouth sometimes, sometimes cheeks, sometimes foreheads, tops of heads, hands, and I know this is going to sound weird, but really it isn’t what it sounds like- a couple times I have even been kissed on the feet. Then you get boo-boo kisses of course, like on scraped knees. I don’t get those anymore, but you know, when I was little I did. Anyways, since we kissed on the mouth sometimes, at one point I remember my dad’s brother used to keep saying we (my father and me) had to stop kissing on the mouth. I remember getting p*ssed at him because I didn’t think it was his business and I didn’t think there was anything perverse or wrong about what we were doing and I was upset by him suggesting that there was and for trying to make us stop. It’s not like we were open mouth kissing or French-kissing. It was just pecking kisses. However, he said this to us several times. I know I blew him off, annoyed and I think dad did an few times, too. Anyways, we never listened. Then one day my dad decides, in front of his wife (my step mom), my older half sister, and my younger one (very young, though), to explain to me that I needed to stop being so affectionate with him because he was afraid people were going to start thinking something wasn’t quite right or wholesome about the two of us. I said okay, but I remember feeling embarrassed and I suppose rejected a little. More embarrassed than anything, though, I think. Almost ashamed. I had a tendency to get nervous around people anyways and conversations about anything sexual always made me uneasy if it came up around family and here he was saying that something I was doing with him might make people think we were sexually involved. UGH! I was also upset that he had actually said this in front of my sisters and my step mother. I think I was more thinking of my older sister and step-mom, not so much the younger one, but you get the idea. It made it even more embarrassing. I wished he had said it in private. I was also feeling ashamed because I almost felt as though I had done something wrong, but the thing is, I had never thought of it that way before and I didn’t think he had pushed me away before, and sometimes he was the one who kissed me, wasn’t he? Anyways, I remember being very embarrassed and it really stuck with me I think, that embarrassment, because I recalled this whole thing a few years back and I remember I felt the need to tell someone about how it made me feel because I was still upset about it after having remembered it and when I did talk about it to a close friend, I was embarrassed to tell even them, because I somehow still felt like I had reason to be ashamed. Anyways, don’t know if that was relevant or not, but it was in my head.
Point is, I tend to try to replace my father, I think. While I like making friends with people regardless of age and gender, I tend to be especially drawn, still, to older men. I also feel an urge to be physically, but platonically, affectionate with them. While I like to cuddle with my younger female friends, as well, it is the older males that I really feel the need to be physically affectionate with. Sometimes I think I want them to be somewhat of a father figure to me, except I want them to fall somewhere between being a father figure and being a friend. While I appreciate compliments (hard as they are to believe) from both male and female of all ages, and I especially like compliments from people that I know and like as people, I think these compliments have a bit of an extra pleasant feeling associated with them when the person complimenting me is an older male that I happen to like as a person. So I guess I am saying that while I do not fall all over all older men, and indeed hate some of them, if I like you as a person and you happen to be older and male to boot, your age and gender are seen as bonuses and I will feel more affectionate towards you, more drawn to you, more obsessive about you, somewhat more concerned with your opinion of me and seeking approval, needier when it comes to you, a bit more jealous when it comes to you, and I will be somewhat envious of your children……because I know that I could never come near to them in your heart, and I also know that for some reason, they got to keep their fathers’ love and attention even into adulthood and I lost mine by 13. I know I'm being a whiney-baby, but you brought up the father issue, so I thought I'd elaborate.
Posted by Karolina on April 27, 2006, at 23:12:25
In reply to Re: Crush on My Counselor- Out of Control? Tamar, posted by DisposableDoll on April 27, 2006, at 22:29:47
Girl.. I can't even tell you how much I understand how you're feeling!! Seriously, I'd say almost everything that you have written about, is like exactly what I'm dealing with right now, same thoughts, feelings about him, etc. Please don't think you are crazy!
I really don't have any answers on how to talk to him and that kind of thing (sorry about that), I guess because I am dealing with the same thing myself, but I just want you to know you are so not alone with this. I have the strongest sexual desire to seduce my T...I would plan what to wear before I saw him, avoid bringing up subjects to keep him from thinking I'm crazy, would fantasize about him and all of that sort of thing.
We've grazed the surface of the subject of me being attracted to him, but as I recently posted, he tends to avoid it and acts really nervous a lot, which makes it hard to figure out how he's feeling around me. Of course I wish he was attracted to me but I doubt he would ever say anything about that. I don't think I could ever tell him straight out though that I fantasize about seducing him and actually want to. I think I wouldn't want to hear his response, which would be a huge rejection. It's almost like I don't want to talk about it so openly because then I know any chance of it ever happening would be completely blown.
Anyway I hope you feel better and wish you good luck with your situation =)
-Karolina-
Posted by Karolina on April 27, 2006, at 23:24:58
In reply to Crush on My Counselor- Out of Control?, posted by DisposableDoll on April 25, 2006, at 17:52:56
Sorry, my post was supposed to go to you not Tamar!!This posting thing confuses me I'm still kinda new.
Posted by orchid on April 28, 2006, at 13:51:15
In reply to Dad Issues (previously Crush on Counselor) Orchid, posted by DisposableDoll on April 27, 2006, at 22:59:34
Hi DisposableDoll,
I read your whole post. And I can understand you perfectly well - the need to get to older men and get their attention, and how you give them a bonus for being little older and a guy.
I was in the same boat. And it took a lot of conscious re working to get over that idea, and I think I still get into that attitude slightly even now at 29. You sound a lot younger, how old are you? It is great you got so much insight and help at an younger age.
And I think the issues that you have outlined here about your father are quite very serious. They are not light as you think they are. To stop contact with father at the age of 13 is exceptionally hard, and it most likely would have led you to crave for the fatherly kind of attention from other older guys. I think you need to talk again and again about how it felt for you with your T. I would actually think it would be good to get this post and give it to him (you may cut off the name part etc if you wish). And the other things like kissing on mouth must have felt really confusing to a 13 year old. I am glad your father stopped it, but he should have done it in a private and slow manner. Had he continued that, it would have been even more destructive to you. And it was not your fault by any means. You would have had no better knowledge at that age.
I don't know anything about your boyfriend, or why you two stopped, but I think if you are still young, it would be good for you if you could spend some real time and effort in getting therapy and working on your issues before you attempt to develop any serious relationship with a guy. Because these kind of father issues tend to play a major role in our romantic relationships, and it is good to get this sorted out before attempting to tackle romanntic relationship with men.
I would always get attracted to older men, and especially those who are unavailable to me (married or otherwise) and who are sometimes even abusive to me emotionally. IT didn't occur to me until much later that that was a pattern that I developed and I was subconsciously trying to fix right the issue I had with my father with other men. But all I was looking for from men was for them to be a good father to me, confused with sexual feelings, but I wasn't really prepared for a good adult like equal relationship with men.
Take Care
ORchid
Posted by eyes2ursoul on April 30, 2006, at 18:03:18
In reply to Crush on My Counselor- Out of Control?, posted by DisposableDoll on April 25, 2006, at 17:52:56
Hello !!!!
I am new and I would like to let you know that I WOULD LOVE TO READ THE 5 PAGES FROM YOUR WORD DOCUMENT !!!
I love 2 read and i write alot too.
so , if u want to send me an email with it i would welcome your thoughts as i think i'm expereinceing similar.
let me know and i will send you a private babble thingy that i know can be done if you want to be discreet, if not just post it to me and i will see it.
I hope you dont mind my asking for you to share this, I just thought when u said no-one wants to read that!
Yes I do!! I want to read it all.
look forward to hearing from you.
kind regards
eyes2ursoul
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