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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Dinah on April 8, 2005, at 21:05:06
In reply to Psychological holding, posted by crushedout on April 8, 2005, at 15:01:08
IMHO, it feels better than physical holding. The feeling is sort of the same, but better. More the sort of holding that you can only get when you're really small and can fit all the way in someone's arms.
I left therapy feeling like I was about to cry today, and I must have made a particularly pathetic sight, because he held both my upper arms. Probably as close to a physical hug as he thinks I'd let him get.
Psychological holding feels much much better.
Weird how tangible it feels.
Posted by daisym on April 9, 2005, at 0:24:17
In reply to Psychological holding, posted by crushedout on April 8, 2005, at 15:01:08
Crushed,
You are really making me think! It is very hard to describe this, but you will know it when it happens. I think of it as a narrowing of the space, like it is just me and him, sort of frozen in a moment. It might be an emotionally intense moment of pain but more likely it is a shared moment of tender grief, after the storm, in those moments after a hard cry, in which you are spent and quiet.
It is feeling so completely accepted and understood that the very smallest nod of the head and the quiet, "I know" says it all. It is feeling safe in the silence without immediate need to break it.
The other time I feel it is when I'm struggling to describe something but I'm afraid to say it or I don't know how to say it, and I'll start to "go away" floating up to the ceiling or out the window. He'll say, very, very quietly, "please come back" or "it's ok to tell me" and I'll feel him making it safe for me to get it out.
Gosh, I'm still describing events, not feelings. But it is the best I can do. I agree with Dinah, way better than an actual hug. It is like one soul hugs another soul, it feels that deep.
Posted by crushedout on April 9, 2005, at 8:50:35
In reply to Re: Psychological holding » crushedout, posted by daisym on April 9, 2005, at 0:24:17
Daisy,
You're doing an amazing job of describing it, and sometimes I think describing events is the best you can do and maybe conveys more than saying the feelings. Anyway, I'm really interested in hearing all of your different experiences and thoughts about this (whether feelings, events, thoughts, contexts, whatever) and they're all really interesting and helpful!
Keep 'em comin'!
Posted by shrinking violet on April 9, 2005, at 12:41:25
In reply to Re: Psychological holding » crushedout, posted by Dinah on April 8, 2005, at 21:05:06
I've experience this a handful of times with my T.....
She has often brought up the concept of figuratively "holding" me, and whatever emotions I need to give her, but I never really understood the concept until I started to feel it.
I'm not sure what happened to bring it on, or why it never seemed to last past a week. I think, the rare times we had a very close intimate exchange (sometimes she'd hug me, sometimes not) or even exchange thoughtful emails, I started to feel very connected to her. It was like I could almost see this invisible thread that connected me to someone in this world (her), and I felt very cared for and loved. I'd never ever experienced this feeling before, so it was very new to me. During these times, I realized that I didn't feel the need to constantly reach out to her to know she was there (through an email, etc), b/c inherently I could feel her there, I knew she was there and secure in the way she felt about me and vice versa. It was a very warm, protected feeling. I often imagined myself sitting in her hands, or curled up inside her heart...That's the only "tangible" way I can explain the feeling. Even my mood improved during these times.
Posted by Shortelise on April 9, 2005, at 13:21:20
In reply to Psychological holding, posted by crushedout on April 8, 2005, at 15:01:08
It's so interesting to think of this - something I have not thought of before. And it's the absence of it that I see, now, in the end phase of therapy.
It was a look on his face, a steadiness of gaze, a warmth of voice, and an openess of heart. It was a reflection of me that was good. It was a promise of safety.
It's different now. Not harmful, just different.
ShortE
Posted by happyflower on April 9, 2005, at 16:19:14
In reply to Psychological holding, posted by crushedout on April 8, 2005, at 15:01:08
So I am still confused.... Is phys. holding something special that they do or is it a feeling you start to get when you start to trust your T? I know I am being a challangeing phycho babble rookie, but I really want to know about this.
Posted by Shortelise on April 9, 2005, at 22:38:15
In reply to Re: Psychological holding, posted by happyflower on April 9, 2005, at 16:19:14
It's just a thing that happens when you tell about painful stuff. Things that would be easier said curled in the safety of someone's lap, said into the soft shoulder of a lover or a mother, or a close friend, but that are too dangerous or frightening or ugly to say in those places.
Our T's can't hold us physically, and maybe their way of holding is better for this purpose.
Does that help?
ShortE
Posted by happyflower on April 9, 2005, at 23:28:49
In reply to Re: Psychological holding » happyflower, posted by Shortelise on April 9, 2005, at 22:38:15
> > Our T's can't hold us physically, and maybe their way of holding is better for this purpose.
>
> Does that help?
>
> ShortEI think I might get it. But does the T do anything special to get you to feel this? Or will this just take time? I normally just say the bad stuff directly to the point with no emotion, like a robot. I guess I am just numb. How does the T make you feel supported or is it just trust that will comes in time? I have only had 10 sessions so far and am new to therapy so I have much to learn. Thank you for responding.
Posted by daisym on April 10, 2005, at 0:58:44
In reply to Re: Psychological holding, posted by happyflower on April 9, 2005, at 23:28:49
You don't have to tell, of course, but why did you enter therapy? And, do you know the orientation of your therapist? Some CBT practitioners don't really "do" emotional holding.
You said you are just telling the bad stuff directly, no emotion. I think as you build trust, both in your therapist and in yourself, you will go back and *feel* the bad stuff, and these powerful emotions lend themselves to needing to be held. Again, if the kind of therapy you are doing is more problem solving or seems to be about not thinking bad thoughts, things may be different for you.
Therapy is full of surprises. My biggest problem when I started was getting whammied when I left with the emotions, I couldn't access them during sessions. Now my biggest problem seems to be closing up these feelings and emotions so I can leave. I need a big therapy band-aid for between times.
Posted by happyflower on April 10, 2005, at 5:41:38
In reply to Re: Psychological holding » happyflower, posted by daisym on April 10, 2005, at 0:58:44
hi Daisym!
He is a clinical psychologist and as far as what kind of therpy he does, I don't know. I entered therpy since I was suffering from PTSD.( I started a new thread yesterday about the basics on why I am in therpy. What is CBT? I know he sees kids and adults and specializes in PTSD. He does EMDR for over 10 years and talk therpy. I have only had 10 sessions so far. I do feel the emotions but I try not to get emotional in therapy because I don't completely trust him ( I don't trust very easily. I let it all out either before I get their or after the session.**** When I was being beaten by my mother, I learned not to cry or I would get it worse. ****I only feel safe with my DH to show those emotions right now. My T is aware of this. I guess if you read my latest post it might explain more. I know he he will let me express my feelings but right now this is all he is getting from me. Robo Happyflower! lol
Posted by Dinah on April 10, 2005, at 11:04:11
In reply to Re: Psychological holding, posted by happyflower on April 9, 2005, at 23:28:49
I'm not sure if they *do* anything specifically or not. If they're taught the skill in therapy school or not. Maybe one of the therapists on the board could answer that.
It does have something to do with them. They have to be fully there, fully focussed on you, and with an open and receptive stance. If they're preoccupied or badgering you about something, it ain't gonna happen.
But maybe it's got something to do with us too. Maybe we have to be in the right frame of mind as much as they do. Maybe we need to be open and trusting and willing to seek them. I'm pretty sure it never happened during the first five years of my therapy. I may have gotten glimpses, but not the full thing.
And I *know* I'm now addicted to it. I can't imagine ever leaving it willingly, even though it's by no means a part of every session or even most sessions. As my therapist says (not about this of course) irregular and unpredictable rewards are the most effective sort.
I've talked to him about it in general before, but I have never talked to him about it while it was happening because it would be unthinkable to pull myself out of his metaphorical lap and analyze it.
Maybe I'll ask him about it next time I see him. I am relatively sure there will be no holding that time.
Also, for me it never had anything to do with disclosure at all. Some of the times I felt most held were silly little moments that had more to do with relationship than with me alone.
Posted by happyflower on April 10, 2005, at 11:13:28
In reply to Re: Psychological holding » happyflower, posted by Dinah on April 10, 2005, at 11:04:11
Okay I think I get it now! lol I think he was trying this with me last session. He was totally focused on me, asking a ton of questions, nothing got too serious. Everytime I tried to change the focus off me to somethng else, he went right back to me. I even asked him why all the questions, and he said he wanted to get to know me better. It was weird kinda like a first date or an interview. It felt totally different than our other sessions. I liked it, maybe that why I am more willing to trust him more and try more EMDR treatments. DO you think that this could be what happened to me? :)
Posted by mair on April 10, 2005, at 11:25:48
In reply to Re: Psychological holding, posted by happyflower on April 10, 2005, at 11:13:28
I'm not sure I've felt "held" much, although I think the best way I could describe it is a feeling I've gotten when I've really allowed myself to feel the emotional support I'm getting from my T. I think she tries to show her care all the time but I can't/won't take it in much. On those occasions when I've felt totally but safely open and exposed to her, I guess I've felt that I was being held. for me it happens more frequently when I'm maybe more distraught than normal or talking about something that feels very painful to me.
I hope this helps.
mair
Posted by crushedout on April 10, 2005, at 14:57:19
In reply to Re: Psychological holding » happyflower, posted by Dinah on April 10, 2005, at 11:04:11
I think maybe I've felt it just when we've laughed about something together. I'm still trying to figure out what it is. But this thread has been very thought-provoking for me.
Posted by Dinah on April 10, 2005, at 15:16:50
In reply to Re: Psychological holding, posted by crushedout on April 10, 2005, at 14:57:19
My guess is that you haven't experienced it yet. It's like an orgasm. You might not know what it is you're expecting, but if you're not sure you've had one, chances are you haven't. And if you have you have absolutely no doubt.
It's something to look forward to though. :)
Posted by Tamar on April 10, 2005, at 17:10:30
In reply to Re: Psychological holding - Happyflower » crushedout, posted by Dinah on April 10, 2005, at 15:16:50
> My guess is that you haven't experienced it yet. It's like an orgasm. You might not know what it is you're expecting, but if you're not sure you've had one, chances are you haven't. And if you have you have absolutely no doubt.
>
> It's something to look forward to though. :)That made perfect sense! So I guess I haven't really experienced the holding thing like some other people have described, but I've been quite close to it at times.
I've been following this post and have been a bit perplexed (just like I was perplexed about why people made such a fuss about sex, before I understood what I'd been missing...).
Thanks for the insight.
Tamar
Posted by happyflower on April 10, 2005, at 17:16:50
In reply to Re: Psychological holding - Happyflower » crushedout, posted by Dinah on April 10, 2005, at 15:16:50
Hey, that good enough reason to pay 90 bucks! I am disapointed, I haven't been psychologically held! lol Wow, I am going to ask for that next session! lol
Posted by daisym on April 10, 2005, at 20:34:13
In reply to Re: Psychological holding - Happyflower » crushedout, posted by Dinah on April 10, 2005, at 15:16:50
I get what you meant but I work really hard to not compare my therapy to sex. I'm not scolding - it just surprised me how vehemently I started shaking my head. But you are right - you know it when it happens.
No apologies necesary, please. Just wanted to share my reaction.
:(
Posted by Dinah on April 10, 2005, at 21:54:21
In reply to Ouch! *sigh* » Dinah, posted by daisym on April 10, 2005, at 20:34:13
Perhaps a sexual innuendo warning needs to be invented?
Posted by daisym on April 10, 2005, at 23:01:51
In reply to It didn't occur to me to put a trigger warning » daisym, posted by Dinah on April 10, 2005, at 21:54:21
It was more about my reaction and it didn't go further. Maybe we should rate things: "R", "X" and "T" for trigger. :)
Oh, and "H" for happy. I have to remember that it isn't all bad.
Posted by Dinah on April 10, 2005, at 23:11:55
In reply to Didn't trigger me so one not needed., posted by daisym on April 10, 2005, at 23:01:51
I suppose you should just assume I'm X rated.
I've never figured out why the sight or mention of a perfectly normal piece of human anatomy would rate an R while the casual assumption that the third date means sex can be broadcast at the family hour.
I'm an enormous prude in some ways. But you'd better just assume "X" anyway.
Posted by crushedout on April 11, 2005, at 5:28:29
In reply to Re: Psychological holding - Happyflower » crushedout, posted by Dinah on April 10, 2005, at 15:16:50
I actually think I have felt it, with my former T, a number of times. And that I've begun to feel it a little with this new T. But I could be wrong. I hope I am wrong. Because it didn't fix me and I want it to magically fix me. I guess what I mean by that is I want it to make me stop desperately longing to be a baby in a mommy's arms.
Posted by Dinah on April 11, 2005, at 9:25:36
In reply to Re: Psychological holding - Happyflower » Dinah, posted by crushedout on April 11, 2005, at 5:28:29
In my experience, it doesn't do that. It just makes me hungry for more of the same. Oh sure, you feel sated at first. But do we ever get a permanent supply of feeling held?
Posted by crushedout on April 11, 2005, at 11:10:10
In reply to Re: Psychological holding » crushedout, posted by Dinah on April 11, 2005, at 9:25:36
Rationally, I know that. But I want to *believe* that it would. I *feel* like it would. I want to be cured of this longing because it's unbearable sometimes.
Posted by Dinah on April 12, 2005, at 1:01:36
In reply to Re: Psychological holding » Dinah, posted by crushedout on April 11, 2005, at 11:10:10
Ok, I've been thinking about this.
To stretch the orgasm thing a bit further.
Maybe the goal isn't to fill us up with being held so that we won't need it anymore. Because that maybe isn't realistic. Maybe the need is a basic human need.
Maybe the goal is for us to learn what it feels like to be emotionally held. And then after it's happened enough times, we can start recognizing what it feels like to come close and how to help the process along. And then after enough more time, we can take the experience that was previously one that only happened in the therapy room, and learn to recreate it in other areas of our lives.
So that we can possibly learn how to emotionally hold others. And we can learn how to distinguish situations IRL where emotional holding is a possibility, and how to achieve that in different surroundings than what we're used to. And with different people. And learn to communicate with other people what we need to feel emotionally held.
All of which we learn by experiencing it in the privacy of the therapy room.
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