Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 481668

Shown: posts 29 to 53 of 53. Go back in thread:

 

It didn't occur to me to put a trigger warning daisym

Posted by Dinah on April 10, 2005, at 21:54:21

In reply to Ouch! *sigh* Dinah, posted by daisym on April 10, 2005, at 20:34:13

Perhaps a sexual innuendo warning needs to be invented?

 

Didn't trigger me so one not needed.

Posted by daisym on April 10, 2005, at 23:01:51

In reply to It didn't occur to me to put a trigger warning daisym, posted by Dinah on April 10, 2005, at 21:54:21

It was more about my reaction and it didn't go further. Maybe we should rate things: "R", "X" and "T" for trigger. :)

Oh, and "H" for happy. I have to remember that it isn't all bad.

 

I wouldn't know how to begin

Posted by Dinah on April 10, 2005, at 23:11:55

In reply to Didn't trigger me so one not needed., posted by daisym on April 10, 2005, at 23:01:51

I suppose you should just assume I'm X rated.

I've never figured out why the sight or mention of a perfectly normal piece of human anatomy would rate an R while the casual assumption that the third date means sex can be broadcast at the family hour.

I'm an enormous prude in some ways. But you'd better just assume "X" anyway.

 

Re: Psychological holding - Happyflower Dinah

Posted by crushedout on April 11, 2005, at 5:28:29

In reply to Re: Psychological holding - Happyflower crushedout, posted by Dinah on April 10, 2005, at 15:16:50

I actually think I have felt it, with my former T, a number of times. And that I've begun to feel it a little with this new T. But I could be wrong. I hope I am wrong. Because it didn't fix me and I want it to magically fix me. I guess what I mean by that is I want it to make me stop desperately longing to be a baby in a mommy's arms.

 

Re: Psychological holding crushedout

Posted by Dinah on April 11, 2005, at 9:25:36

In reply to Re: Psychological holding - Happyflower Dinah, posted by crushedout on April 11, 2005, at 5:28:29

In my experience, it doesn't do that. It just makes me hungry for more of the same. Oh sure, you feel sated at first. But do we ever get a permanent supply of feeling held?

 

Re: Psychological holding Dinah

Posted by crushedout on April 11, 2005, at 11:10:10

In reply to Re: Psychological holding crushedout, posted by Dinah on April 11, 2005, at 9:25:36

Rationally, I know that. But I want to *believe* that it would. I *feel* like it would. I want to be cured of this longing because it's unbearable sometimes.

 

Sexual innuendo warning. crushedout

Posted by Dinah on April 12, 2005, at 1:01:36

In reply to Re: Psychological holding Dinah, posted by crushedout on April 11, 2005, at 11:10:10

Ok, I've been thinking about this.

To stretch the orgasm thing a bit further.

Maybe the goal isn't to fill us up with being held so that we won't need it anymore. Because that maybe isn't realistic. Maybe the need is a basic human need.

Maybe the goal is for us to learn what it feels like to be emotionally held. And then after it's happened enough times, we can start recognizing what it feels like to come close and how to help the process along. And then after enough more time, we can take the experience that was previously one that only happened in the therapy room, and learn to recreate it in other areas of our lives.

So that we can possibly learn how to emotionally hold others. And we can learn how to distinguish situations IRL where emotional holding is a possibility, and how to achieve that in different surroundings than what we're used to. And with different people. And learn to communicate with other people what we need to feel emotionally held.

All of which we learn by experiencing it in the privacy of the therapy room.

 

Re: Sexual innuendo warning. Dinah

Posted by crushedout on April 12, 2005, at 5:46:49

In reply to Sexual innuendo warning. crushedout, posted by Dinah on April 12, 2005, at 1:01:36


That makes *a lot* of sense Dinah. It's brilliant, really. I love it.

The problem I'm still having is figuring out what it means to be emotionally held. Because I've had extremely good feelings in therapy (and outside of it, I might add) where I felt loved, cared for, paid attention to, etc., but I'm not sure I would have characterized them as feeling "held." There is also a sexual aspect to all of this for me and I can't tell where the feelings of well-being and the sexual feelings are separate or overlap.

I don't know if I'm making any sense, but I'm going to keep thinking about it.

 

I spoke to my therapist about this today crushedout

Posted by Dinah on April 16, 2005, at 10:47:11

In reply to Re: Sexual innuendo warning. Dinah, posted by crushedout on April 12, 2005, at 5:46:49

And about a number of other topics on the board. I'll try to post about it a bit later, and I hope I don't forget in the meantime. I'll start a new thread and include everything.

 

Bad thing is...

Posted by Dinah on April 16, 2005, at 10:49:19

In reply to I spoke to my therapist about this today crushedout, posted by Dinah on April 16, 2005, at 10:47:11

This is the most curious I've ever seen him about the board. I hope he doesn't forget his promise not to peek.

Oh well, with his memory and his disdain for the internet, he'll likely forget by... well, probably he's already forgotten.

 

Re: Bad thing is... Dinah

Posted by crushedout on April 16, 2005, at 16:49:15

In reply to Bad thing is..., posted by Dinah on April 16, 2005, at 10:49:19


yeah, i don't think he'll break his promise. i can't wait to read your post.

 

Re: Bad thing is... Dinah

Posted by crushedout on April 16, 2005, at 16:59:56

In reply to Bad thing is..., posted by Dinah on April 16, 2005, at 10:49:19


what about what you said, do you think, piqued his curiosity so much?

 

Re: Bad thing is... crushedout

Posted by Dinah on April 16, 2005, at 17:18:20

In reply to Re: Bad thing is... Dinah, posted by crushedout on April 16, 2005, at 16:59:56

Well, we spent a lot of the session discussing the board because I didn't want it to get deep. I failed (see below). But the specific thing was when I commented on how it was upsetting to clients that they cared more about their therapists than they cared about us, and how while it was upsetting to many people, I understood that it made therapy possible. Because a relationship couldn't focus entirely on us, as therapy does, if the therapist was too personally invested. Because what we said and did would then have an impact on them, and they couldn't be objective and nonjudgmeental. No more than they can be therapists to people they care about, can they care about their clients.

He first objected, saying that therapists do care about their clients, that those clients he doesn't care about soon pick up on it and quit going to see him. That he can only do good therapy with clients he cares about. But as we pursued the matter, he eventually made his way to saying that we're not like their spouses, mothers, fathers, children or friends in that we don't have a personal relationship with them, and when I pointed out that that was exactly what I was saying... Well, I think he said that there shouldn't be any thought on our parts about who cares more. That thinking that way wasn't useful. At which I said "SNORT. Yes, snort. Feelings are often not useful." He went into some CBT stuff, I answered with DiMasio (sp?).

Anyway, he couldn't believe we worried about things like that. And I said that apparently therapists have no idea what really goes on in therapy - only what they think goes on. And that he would learn more by reading this board than he would by going to the week long conference he was attending. And he thoughtfully agreed, which is what made me nervous. But he really is an internet snob. And I'd find it hard to believe he'd forget his promise. And if he ignores it, well, then he deserves to read everything I've ever written about him. Nose picking and all.

 

you should be a writer (i mean a professional one) Dinah

Posted by crushedout on April 16, 2005, at 17:26:12

In reply to Re: Bad thing is... crushedout, posted by Dinah on April 16, 2005, at 17:18:20


you tell stories so well. :-)

 

Re: Bad thing is... Dinah

Posted by crushedout on April 16, 2005, at 17:29:25

In reply to Re: Bad thing is... crushedout, posted by Dinah on April 16, 2005, at 17:18:20


when you said "see below," did you mean what you wrote in that post, or in antoher thread on the board? cuz i can't find a new thread from you.

 

And here's what he said on this subject

Posted by Dinah on April 16, 2005, at 17:36:54

In reply to I spoke to my therapist about this today crushedout, posted by Dinah on April 16, 2005, at 10:47:11

He said, no, there wasn't an "emotional holding class". But that the things they are tought do contribute to the atmosphere that makes emotional holding possible and that an experienced therapist learns how to go about it through experience.

He said that part of it was to just be accepting of the client's pain, and to put aside the natural instinct to try to fix. I told him that it didn't necessarily happen when I was in pain.

So he asked me to figure out when it did happen, and what was going on. I told him I wasn't sure, but that I knew I wasn't always upset when I felt held. And that it occurred to me to wonder how much of it was what they did, and how much of it was from the holdee.

I think he was thinking this out as we discussed it. I've probably made him self conscious now and he'll never be able to do it again.

He said that he had attended a seminar once on one aspect of what he thinks I mean. That it was about learning to create a listening place inside of you (the therapist) to hold and really hear what the client is saying. That ties in with my picture of him as open and receptive with a firm solid core.

He also thought that the therapist and the client together build a relationship, and that relationship is sort of like an energy force between them. And that sometimes the therapist might pour more energy into the field than at other times, and the same from the client. And that when both are focussed and intent and pouring lots of energy into the relationhip and being totally present, or something like that, that the energy between the therapist and client creates the emotional holding.

I sort of like that, because it becomes a mutual thing rather than something the therapist does to us. And I've always known, on a gut level, that emotional holding isn't like a bear hug. Someone can't grab you and emotionally hold you. It's got to be an experience you put something into as well.

He was surprised that most of us experienced it as something that happened only in therapy. He thinks it's something that can happen between lovers or good friends or close family as well. He acknowledges that many people who are drawn to the field are probably good natural emotional holders. But when I asked, he said there was no reason I couldn't learn to emotionally hold others. I'd really like to learn to emotionally hold my son. What a wonderful gift that would be.

Anyway, that's emotional holding from the perspective of a person who's rather uncommonly good at it.

 

Haven't written it yet. It's hard.

Posted by Dinah on April 16, 2005, at 17:38:43

In reply to Re: Bad thing is... Dinah, posted by crushedout on April 16, 2005, at 17:29:25

(And thanks!)

 

I repeat my comment from three posts ago :-)

Posted by crushedout on April 16, 2005, at 17:41:41

In reply to And here's what he said on this subject, posted by Dinah on April 16, 2005, at 17:36:54


This gives me TONS of food for thought.

 

oops, i should have said four posts ago

Posted by crushedout on April 16, 2005, at 17:43:40

In reply to I repeat my comment from three posts ago :-), posted by crushedout on April 16, 2005, at 17:41:41


you snuck one in before mine. :-)

 

Re: And here's what he said on this subject

Posted by Susan47 on April 16, 2005, at 19:37:14

In reply to And here's what he said on this subject, posted by Dinah on April 16, 2005, at 17:36:54

This may sound harsh, but if therapists are surprised that we only experience emotional holding in the therapy relationship, then they're definitely in the wrong profession that was really either a stupid thing for your therapist to have said, or he's incredibly ignorant. Scary, scary, scary. My last therapist acted like an *ss for a long time, had no idea he was being an *ss, and hurt me terribly. What bothers me is that I'm only one of what .. tens? Hundreds?

 

Re: And here's what he said on this subject Susan47

Posted by Dinah on April 16, 2005, at 19:43:11

In reply to Re: And here's what he said on this subject, posted by Susan47 on April 16, 2005, at 19:37:14

It didn't offend me, Susan.

I assume, perhaps incorrectly, that not a lot of clients directly discuss this with their therapists because it is *so* special, and we don't want to pick apart special moments.

That's always been true for me. I've always just cherished the moments and hoped for another one.

Until this thread, it never occurred to me to break it apart into it's smallest pieces and analyze it.

If my experience is true of others as well, it's possible that no one has ever talked to him about how it feels in therapy, and that therapy is the only place they feel it.

And because he's really uncommonly good at it, perhaps he experiences it left and right with everyone from friends to strangers on the bus.

He's not a mindreader. Like everyone else, he only knows his own experience until and unless someone tells him differently.

 

Didn't learn it in school

Posted by gardenergirl on April 17, 2005, at 2:34:25

In reply to Re: And here's what he said on this subject Susan47, posted by Dinah on April 16, 2005, at 19:43:11

For a T to be able to emotionally hold, I tend to think it is one of those things that you have to already have, at least in part, in your character...like empathy. I have heard some say that empathy can be taught. I tend to disagree. I think someone can be taught to make empathic statements or reactions, but you can't teach a feeling. I think it needs to be there, at least a smidgeon, or it's not authentic. I do think someone's capacity for empathy can be developed, though.

So with emotional holding, I think it's the same. I think a T might have a capacity for it or not, and if they do, they can develop that capacity. I like the energy flow idea. I can tell you that I have been emotionally held by my T (and kicked in the gut last week, but that is another tale). And I have felt as if I were emotinally holding my clients at times. If I indeed was, it's a meaningful and powerful feeling for the T as well.

gg

 

Re: Didn't learn it in school

Posted by Susan47 on April 17, 2005, at 12:42:55

In reply to Didn't learn it in school, posted by gardenergirl on April 17, 2005, at 2:34:25

I must have learned more from this Board, or these Boards, than I ever realized.
But after all these months and all this time spent reading and feeling what so many others experience in therapy, and why ... there absolutely SHOULD be something in training that gives therapists the extra edge of understanding how important they become, no matter who their client is ... and gives therapists the ability to function within that arena without feeling threatened .. and understanding more about their countertransferences .. that's huge. Huge. Bigger than I think the profession, or industry if you'd like .. is willing to admit .. or explore in depth. OR perhaps it's just so big an issue, so huge, that you can't see the forest for the trees ... therapists should almost be mandated to have to be in therapy themselves, or monitored by other therapists.. hey, that would be a good thing, growth for the industry.

 

Re: And here's what he said on this subject Dinah

Posted by Susan47 on April 17, 2005, at 16:19:59

In reply to Re: And here's what he said on this subject Susan47, posted by Dinah on April 16, 2005, at 19:43:11

I've always really admired how understanding you are of your therapist. He's a lucky guy, you don't back down but you're also able to give in all the right places. I hope he appreciates you. It seems like in your therapy both of you benefit. It sounds like you and he have a really good therapeutic alliance...a relationship.

 

Re: And here's what he said on this subject Susan47

Posted by Dinah on April 17, 2005, at 17:25:42

In reply to Re: And here's what he said on this subject Dinah, posted by Susan47 on April 17, 2005, at 16:19:59

"I've always really admired how understanding you are of your therapist. He's a lucky guy, you don't back down but you're also able to give in all the right places."

I could say the exact same thing of him toward me.

We do have a nice, very real, relationship. He strongly believes that relationship is the only thing that brings about change in me, stubborn wench that I am.

You might also consider, though, that I'm more likely than most to share negative things about him. He'd be appalled and probably have a contradictory view if he ever read this board.


This is the end of the thread.


Show another thread

URL of post in thread:


Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ


[dr. bob] Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD, bob@dr-bob.org

Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.