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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by likelife on November 14, 2002, at 21:58:23
I don't know if this is the right place to post this, and I'm sorry to put this out there, because I haven't done anything to support any of you (I would like to, but don't know what to say), but I'm still asking for your support.
I saw my pdoc this afternoon, and left feeling more suicidal than I was when I arrived. He's a relatively new doc for me--I've only been seeing him for a couple of months, after my old doc left town. Just being there was depressing me, because I feel like I'm running out of options medwise--I'm already taking 4 psychotropic meds; he tried to add a 5th a couple of weeks ago, but I couldn't tolerate it. He doesn't seem like the most competent guy out there. Every time I see him, he asks which medications I'm taking and whether I've had a history of suicide attempts, something I think he would remember after having been informed about it 4 or 5 times. He asked me how I was doing (not well at all), said, "tell me about your death thing," which apparently meant talk about your suicidal ideation, plans, etc. After I told him I had no specific plan, but was thinking about it often, he replied, "that sucks." Several minutes later he asked me if I thought I had borderline personality disorder. (I don't think I do, based on my limited knowledge of it--but why was he asking me this in the first place?) In the end, he asked me what I wanted to do with the meds, and I honestly told him I had no idea. He suggested I taper off one of my meds and call him in a month. What I needed to say, but didn't, was that I don't think I can wait a month.
I've spent the evening juggling this around in my mind, and as a result, have spent most of it crying, feeling completely hopeless about the whole thing. My husband is thoroughly frustrated because he thinks I need to try to take more control of my depression, and I sympathize with him because I know I've made his life miserable.
Somehow I have to take final exams next week, but can't at this moment fathom how this is possibly going to happen. My mind is stuck.
I had to cancel my next appointment with my therapist because I accidentally scheduled it at a time when I have an exam, and I didn't really have the energy to try to reschedule it. I know I need to go see her, but am afraid that she is colluding with my doc (they both work at my HMO's clinic). Maybe I'm becoming paranoid on top of everything else.
I really don't know what to do at this point, except to force myself through my work and try to get some sleep. Concentrating is nearly impossible though, because I can't stop thinking about, well, suicide. What do you do when you get to a point where it looks like nothing will help. Miller, I know you talked about drugs and therapy, and how it sometimes seems like there's no solution.
I have never felt so alone.
Posted by LyndaK on November 15, 2002, at 1:09:59
In reply to feel like I'm drowning, posted by likelife on November 14, 2002, at 21:58:23
I think you're right-on with your questions about your pdoc's responses. I wouldn't even entertain another visit with him. Just get a list of providers and pick a new one. I don't think you have anything to lose based on what you just described! His responses seemed so flippant and careless!
I also empathize with the frustration of dealing with an HMO. I'm having my own frustrations with that right now. In regards to your therapist colluding with your doc, you have a legal right to confidentiality (except when you threaten to kill yourself or another -- they have to report that). Your therapist shouldn't be talking with your pdoc without your consent. It undermines your therapy when you can't trust that what you say is held in strict confidence. Maybe it's an issue that should be brought up and talked about. It DOES sound like you need to see your therapist -- try to reschedule that appointment sooner rather than later.
I'm concerned for you.
I feel like I'm not saying anything that's very helpful.
I just want you to know that you're NOT alone.
There IS hope that things will get better with the right treatment.
KEEP TRYING. Yes, get some sleep. Get through the night. Get through the next day.
Then search for another doc.Keep posting.
Lynda
Posted by m3 on November 15, 2002, at 2:22:52
In reply to feel like I'm drowning, posted by likelife on November 14, 2002, at 21:58:23
hi likelife, I also come here for support even though I don't seem to have much to offer in return. So far nobody has bit me. Anyway, I'm going to try offering some support now, as well as I can.
Going by your post, your pdoc definitely needs to go, because he is not looking out for your welfare, and despite HMOs there are good, caring doctors who will care for you and help you find the right meds. I know the work of looking for a new doctor is probably the last thing you feel you can do at the moment, and it's probably difficult to do anything at all to care for yourself if you're feeling suicidally depressed. But maybe you can ask for doctor-hunting help from your husband or your therapist, or maybe your old doc had some suggestions/referrals you could follow up on (I'm hoping last doc didn't send you to this one).
Just please ask for help if you need it, here or anywhere, and please keep posting.
Posted by Miller on November 15, 2002, at 8:15:46
In reply to feel like I'm drowning, posted by likelife on November 14, 2002, at 21:58:23
Hi Lifelike,
Oh, I so know how you are feeling right now. If drugs aren't helping and therapy isn't helping, and if I (you) can't make myself (yourself) feel better, will I (you) ever feel good??
A good friend told me recently that if I kill myself, nobody who knows me will ever be the same. Since I didn't understand what he meant, he told me to think about if my husband killed himself. So, I took his advise and thought about how everyone would act/react if my husband killed himself. Obviously, I would be devastated, and probably blame myself. His parents would be crushed. His friends would be so hurt. But then I started thinking about people that only slightly know him. Like the people he works with and the people he has met through me. A suicide would certainly effect them as well.
The point of this story is to seriously consider if, by taking my own life, would I be solving a problem (misery) or creating more suffering in others. OK, this question would probably seem obvious to those who do not suffer as we do. But for people like us, it is a fragile balance.
I would LOVE to be as selfish as I want and just turn my own lights out forever. Something always holds me back. Maybe it is hope, maybe it is love, but there is something that has prevented me.
As pathetic as I see myself at times, I think it would be more pathetic if I tried to kill myself and failed. People would be looking at me as if I was a fruitcake. So, I have decided, if and when I decide to kill myself, it will be certain I will not fail. Since I have made that decision, I am know more cautious of feeling suicidal. I do not threaten myself. I know when I decide to go, I will. So, now I look at the possibility more seriously. Good or bad, it has kept me from taking the ultimate plunge.
So, my advise to you? *Remember you are not alone. We all feel sad and lonely. *Try to remember there are people who love you, no matter how distant they may seem. *People have assured us that there is hope. Maybe there is a chance we won't always feel this way.
Lifelike, I am glad you are on this forum. So, when you feel scared and lonely, come here. Post as often as you need. Let us share our feelings and thoughts. I figure with so many different people and opinions, there has to be someone who will connect and help me. I bet the same will hold true for you as well.
LOVE
Posted by Dinah on November 15, 2002, at 8:51:36
In reply to feel like I'm drowning, posted by likelife on November 14, 2002, at 21:58:23
It's clear you need another pdoc. I know the frustration and anger that comes when a person in that position just doesn't get it, doesn't listen, and isn't helpful. I had a rotten pdoc myself. It's important to get out of that situation and find a good pdoc. It makes a huge difference. When I did it, I felt so much more confident.
If they work together, and you signed a consent for them to speak together, they probably do consult. They probably wouldn't call it colluding, but I was in that situation as well. Bad pdoc worked with therapist. And I felt they were colluding as well. My pdoc now is completely separate from my therapist, and it feels much more like pdoc's primary interest is me.
I do hope you aren't stuck with this pdoc. (By the way, if you think this pdoc doesn't have an accurate grasp of your condition, don't get your records transferred. My current pdoc didn't even ask for them, and came up with a treatment plan from a completely different and far more appropriate angle, while an interim pdoc got the records and just continued with rotten pdoc's treatment plan.)
Posted by Gracie2 on November 17, 2002, at 2:48:32
In reply to feel like I'm drowning, posted by likelife on November 14, 2002, at 21:58:23
I have been in your place exactly and I feel your pain. Well, actually, I was worse. In the last three years I've been hospitalized three times, twice after an overdose, one intentional and one not. The third time, the police brought me to the hospital. So, you know, that's pretty bad.
I'm much better now, & would like to tell you how I got from there to here. Maybe it will bring you some hope.
First of all, despite all their training, doctors
are still people, prone to all the human weaknesses that the rest of us have. Like people in every other profession, some doctors are not really, really good at their work. This can be for any reason from inexperience to job burn-out;
the bottom line is, not every doctor is the right one for you personally. When you're severely depressed, you blame treatment failure on yourself. You start to believe that you're "beyond help", when in reality you're suffering from misdiagnosis and/or the wrong medication, or misuse of that medication.You are not beyond help, and you're not untreatable. Psychiatric medications do work. However, the indiscriminate use of psychiatric medications, which are powerful drugs that direct the neurotransmitters in your brain, are fucking up a lot of people. Because many psychiatric drugs don't have a quick, mood-altering effect like narcotics, most patients and many doctors don't really appreciate the long-term effects of these drugs, and the danger of not taking them seriously.
Unfortunately, there are many variables on the road to wellness. It's easy to get discouraged and distracted. I'm something of a veteran in this area, and I've learned some things. I'll try to put down what I wish I had read somewhere three years ago, and taken to heart. I don't have references-this is from personal experience. Prehaps the best source.
1.)Even if your family doctor is willing to prescibe psychiatric drugs like Prozac or Paxil, do not take them. The long-term effects of these drugs need to be monitered by an experienced psychiatrist.
2.) It's a serious mistake to believe that you are
so depressed or deranged that any medication prescribed under any circumstances can only help.
The wrong medication, or the right medication used
in the wrong manner, can make you slide from depression to psychosis.
3.) You might destroy yourself by not being totally honest with your psychiatrist. Like a computer, his output (diagnosis/prescription) relies on the information he recieves. For maximum benefit, he must recieve as much information as possible from you, the patient.
He's not a priest, he's not a friend, although he does care about your improvement and is certainly concerned about the effect of the treatment he's prescribed. Being evasive or coy or too ashamed to admit your actions only delays diagnosis and treatment.
4.) One psychiatric drug should be prescribed by a psychiatrist for long-term treatment after you
have honestly described all symptoms. This drug
should be taken strictly as prescribed. Don't allow yourself to run out of medication. Don't take 1 or 3 pills if you're supposed to take 2.
Don't mix your daily medication with other drugs or alcohol. Don't taper and certainly don't quit
your medication all at once, which throws your brain's transmitters into turmoil.
5.) Benzos like Xanax are for short-term relief.
If you're prone to addiction, I suggest you avoid.
6.) Personally, my depression and psychosis were relieved by a young doctor who immediately took me off the high dosage of Depakote that had me doing the "thorazine-shuffle". I was still functioning on some reptile level that prevented
suicide, but I was not a whole person. Over many months I eventually stabalized on a regimen of Seroquel that somehow corrected my chronic insomnia. A regular sleeping pattern relieved a great deal of tension. Once I was "stabalized",
the addition of Paxil helped relieve depression.
However, the combination of Seroquel and Paxil is magic for only myself.The success of your treatment relies on total honesty with your psychiatrist and strict adherance to the medication guidelines. If you're serious about getting well, you can do it.
-Gracie
Posted by Miller on November 17, 2002, at 9:58:23
In reply to Re: feel like I'm drowning, posted by Gracie2 on November 17, 2002, at 2:48:32
You have probably just helped more people than you could imagine. I sincerely thank you for the information and the direct presentation of same. It is a lot to consider, but it boils it all down to braas tacks. Thank you, Gracie.
Posted by likelife on November 17, 2002, at 15:05:08
In reply to Re: feel like I'm drowning, posted by Miller on November 15, 2002, at 8:15:46
Reading everyone's posts here has made me feel a lot better. It's been a rough weekend. I tried to call my therapist on Friday, but never heard back from her; she won't be in again until Tues. I've spent most of the weekend trying to lose myself in reading, and it's worked about half of the time. It means so much to me that people are willing to respond to what I have to say and offer such supportive comments.
It's one day at a time right now, and I imagine this is the same for a lot of you.
Thanks again for your help.
Posted by likelife on November 17, 2002, at 15:11:30
In reply to Re: feel like I'm drowning, posted by Miller on November 15, 2002, at 8:15:46
Miller,
Thank you first for giving me some kind of hope.
I have tried to kill myself, and have (obviously) failed, and I thought that I would never get over the humiliation of it. Like you, I have been thinking about the situation a lot, and know that if I do decide to kill myself, I also need to be certain that it will not fail. Love for my husband, and from my husband has been what has kept me going for a long time. I have had the thought that if I killed myself, I would be making life easier for him, as he would not have to deal with my hysterics and constant bad mood. But I know that in reality, killing myself would be a very cruel thing to do to him, and so I don't. But in the meantime, I wonder if I will be able to make it through a life that requires so much effort.
It is helpful to know that you and others share my feelings and struggles. Somehow I hope we can all make it a little better for each other.
Posted by likelife on November 17, 2002, at 15:14:06
In reply to Re: feel like I'm drowning » likelife, posted by Dinah on November 15, 2002, at 8:51:36
Dinah,
Thank you again for your comments. I have decided that I am quite finished speaking with my current pdoc, and will start looking into finding a new one next week. I am limited to those docs who belong to my HMO, and I believe they all have instant access to my records, so the trick will be in finding someone who is willing to listen to my story and disregard the actions of my previous pdoc. This could be a little difficult, but anything has to be better than the current situation I'm in.
Posted by likelife on November 17, 2002, at 15:22:09
In reply to Re: feel like I'm drowning, posted by Gracie2 on November 17, 2002, at 2:48:32
Gracie,
Thank you for your wisdom. I have also been in and out of the hospital, though it's been over a year since my last admission. You're absolutely right about needing to be completely honest with my pdoc. I sometimes get myself into the situation where I will start to tell him how I'm feeling, get the feeling that he's not really understanding what I'm saying, and my words kind of trail off until I don't know what I'm saying anymore. I don't know if the problem is that I don't give him the chance to understand, or he feels too rushed in our 15 min meetings, or some other factor.
I get discouraged, because I will find a combination of meds that works for a while (even up to 18 months or so), but that gradually loses effectiveness, even at the maximum dose. I've spent the past 5 years playing around with meds, and feel defeated in times like these when the current meds don't seem to be cutting it. It's at these times that I start to ask myself what I'm doing wrong, and you're right, I start to blame treatment failure on myself.
My therapist has tried to help me reframe the situation, and to realize that while I may deal with depression for a lifetime, it doesn't have to be totally disabling, and I can find bright points within my life, if I work at it. Most times I agree with her, but my acceptance kind of waxes and wanes with my mood.
I'm still working at it though, and it's encouraging to hear that you have had success, being a "veteran" of the mental health world.
Thanks for your comments.
Posted by Gracie2 on November 18, 2002, at 9:31:10
In reply to Re: feel like I'm drowning-Gracie, posted by Miller on November 17, 2002, at 9:58:23
Posted by Gracie2 on November 18, 2002, at 9:43:50
In reply to Re: feel like I'm drowning » Gracie2, posted by likelife on November 17, 2002, at 15:22:09
Posted by Zinny on November 21, 2002, at 13:15:37
In reply to feel like I'm drowning, posted by likelife on November 14, 2002, at 21:58:23
Lifelike--everyone's responses to your original message have basically said what I would say. I wanted to commiserate with you on one subject: depression and exams! I'm also wading through school right now, facing exams right after Thanksgiving and in the middle of a very severe bout of depression. It's horrible, isn't it? I know that it is likely that I'll feel better after exams are over and that stress has been taken away, but I can't help thinking of how bad I'll feel if I let my depression keep me from doing the best I can on my exams. It's really hard to focus and study and think when I spend 90% of my energy trying not to listen to the voice telling me that I am not good enough to make it and not worth it anyway.
You posted a few days ago. Have you had exams yet? If you're still preparing: Good luck and I'll be thinking about you. I know what you're going through!
Posted by Ayesha on November 26, 2002, at 9:35:40
In reply to feel like I'm drowning, posted by likelife on November 14, 2002, at 21:58:23
Hi, since most of what I would have said has already been told...
I'd like to ask u why you feel you have to apologise for asking for help, because u really needn't say sorry. You apologised for ur post and you seem to be beating urself up because you think you've made ur hubby's life a misery. are u punishing urself by isolating urself (hence feeling alone)?
based on what u've said, ur not alone cause u got ur hubby (and surely other people to support u too) u got every1 on here who's been thru it and looks like they been so helpful its helped me too. so, indirectly, you've helped me!
Anyway back to the point i'm new here so i was kinda on the edge but i'm happy now :)
i've been to the point of suicide attempts over about 2 years but now i finally convinced myself that when i was thinking i didnt deserve to live, it was nonsense. I DO deserve to live and so do YOU so don't be ashamed to take advt. of ur rights and ur life. i've never had therapy but what i just said would be my starting point, you gotta see it in a positive attitude (its like its harder to get to ur destination if ur walking backwards). tell your doc u need more guidance and if he's still being an idiot..can u get registered with someone else? hope so. if not don't be afraid to stand your ground.
Well I dunno how helpful I'm being but good luck and keep going.
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