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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 4 to 28 of 28. Go back in thread:
Posted by dessbee on June 13, 2006, at 9:46:31
In reply to Fish oil and ADHD, posted by saturn on May 13, 2006, at 15:52:19
If I take more than 4 gram of fish oil I will get bad skin (acne) and insomnia.
Benefits: anti-depressive and relaxing effects.
Posted by laima on July 20, 2006, at 19:20:32
In reply to Re: acne and insomnia, posted by dessbee on June 13, 2006, at 9:46:31
Really??? I have periodic problems with both, and never made any connection.
> If I take more than 4 gram of fish oil I will get bad skin (acne) and insomnia.
> Benefits: anti-depressive and relaxing effects.
Posted by dessbee on July 21, 2006, at 8:17:09
In reply to Re: acne and insomnia » dessbee, posted by laima on July 20, 2006, at 19:20:32
I think it is primarily the insomnia (induced by fish oil) that causes the acne.
Posted by laima on July 21, 2006, at 9:04:46
In reply to Re: acne and insomnia » laima, posted by dessbee on July 21, 2006, at 8:17:09
Amazing. I never noted any correlation- but will try to notice. What about flax oil? Have you tried that, and does it have the same effect for you in terms of your skin and insomnia? I understand fish oil is more "to the point" and efffective, meaning you have to take more flax than fish if you go that route. But perhaps it might be an alternative for you?
> I think it is primarily the insomnia (induced by fish oil) that causes the acne.
Posted by dessbee on July 21, 2006, at 17:19:35
In reply to Re: acne and insomnia, posted by laima on July 21, 2006, at 9:04:46
Flax seed oil is good for acne treatment since ALA (alpha Linolenic acid) inhibits 5-alpha
reductase enzyme which converts testosterone to the potent and harmful DHT (Dihydro-testosterone).
Zinc is also a potent inhibitor of 5-alpha reductase.My experience is that flax seed oil opens skin pores and makes the skin oily/greasy.
Flax seed oil can also induce insomnia in high doses, but will not cause acne so I better rephrase myself:
It must be the fish oil that aggrevates acne :-)I combine fishoil (4 gram) and flaxseed oil (5-10 ml). Both are first of all good mood stabalizers. But in high doses the will cause confusion, lightheadedness and insomnia.
Posted by LOOPS on July 21, 2006, at 17:28:52
In reply to Re: acne and insomnia » laima, posted by dessbee on July 21, 2006, at 17:19:35
flaxseed oil makes me irritable, euphoric and very unbalanced. Fish oil does seem to make acne worse, but high omega-3 fish does not (aka 3g omega 3 per 100g of salmon). I gave up on fish oil after many months of high dose supplementation and finding magnesium and a low-carb diet to do a better job of making me sleep better and mood stabilization. I find balancing calcium with magnesium is very helpful for STAYING asleep - magnesium is an antidepressant, this I have found so.
YMMV of course. There was a time when I swore by fish oil as it did seem to be antidepressant for me.
Loops
Posted by dessbee on July 22, 2006, at 7:41:40
In reply to Re: acne and insomnia, posted by LOOPS on July 21, 2006, at 17:28:52
My experience is that the quality of flaxseed oil is essential. It has to be cold-pressed and refridgerated at all times. Another thing is dosage. High dose of fish oil/flax seed oil will be destabalizing: insomnia, dizziness and confusion.
Posted by LOOPS on July 22, 2006, at 11:22:01
In reply to Re: acne and insomnia, posted by dessbee on July 22, 2006, at 7:41:40
I do eat flax meal as part of a homemade nut bread and don't have any problems with this. I also get ALA from other foods as well (dairy mostly - butter and cream) and am sure this helps. Flax meal contains a lot of magnesium and B6/B1 which I'm sure must figure in somewhere too for it's overall effect.
Loops
Posted by dessbee on July 22, 2006, at 16:27:17
In reply to Re: acne and insomnia, posted by LOOPS on July 22, 2006, at 11:22:01
I do not think dairy should be considered a good source for ALA (alpha linolenic acid). Dairy contains mostly saturated fatty acids that will worsen acne, since it stimulates 5 alpha reductase.
I personally do not consider flax seed safe since it contains lignans with phytoestrogen properties and hydrogen cyanide. Phytoestrogens should be avoided if your are male and hydrogen cyanide should be avoided by anyone unless you are suffering from cancer.
Posted by LOOPS on July 22, 2006, at 17:55:10
In reply to Re: acne and insomnia, posted by dessbee on July 22, 2006, at 16:27:17
> I do not think dairy should be considered a good source for ALA (alpha linolenic acid). Dairy contains mostly saturated fatty acids that will worsen acne, since it stimulates 5 alpha reductase.
>
>
Hi-well that has not been my experience at all. I've managed to completely clear up my acne by eating a lot of saturated fat (but no sugar and only carbs coming from vegetables). I know lots of other people that have had this experience too. I now think it acne has more to do with insulin stimulation.
I hear you about the flax seed, but it doesn't seem to have affected me negatively at all. I'll tell you what DOES affect me negatively - high dose B complex supplements - but that is another story.
Loops
Posted by laima on July 22, 2006, at 18:32:27
In reply to Re: acne and insomnia, posted by dessbee on July 22, 2006, at 16:27:17
Hmmm..just read in either New York Times or BBC that someone finally officially and scientifically proved dairy causes acne.
> I do not think dairy should be considered a good source for ALA (alpha linolenic acid). Dairy contains mostly saturated fatty acids that will worsen acne, since it stimulates 5 alpha reductase.
>
> I personally do not consider flax seed safe since it contains lignans with phytoestrogen properties and hydrogen cyanide. Phytoestrogens should be avoided if your are male and hydrogen cyanide should be avoided by anyone unless you are suffering from cancer.
Posted by dessbee on July 23, 2006, at 9:50:56
In reply to Re: acne and insomnia, posted by LOOPS on July 22, 2006, at 17:55:10
There are two risks factors about liquid dairy products. They have high insulin index (20% higher than white bread) and saturated fat stimulates 5 alpha reductase resulting in higher DHT (dihydrotestosterone)
It is interesting about vitamin B-complex. Folic acid, b-12 and b-6 can increase production of histamine, which has inflammatory properties.
If you are sensitive to vitamin B-complex supplements you may have histadelia (high histamine)Two supplements that may increase histamine clearance is TMG (trimethylglycine) and MSM (methylsulfonylmethane). Both supplements are considered anti-inflammatory.
Posted by JLx on July 23, 2006, at 12:48:34
In reply to Re: acne and insomnia, posted by LOOPS on July 21, 2006, at 17:28:52
After someone suggested on this board that this problem may be relieved by trying another brand, I tried that and sure enough, no more fish oil induced acne.
I used to take a cheap supermarket brand or NOW brand. Kal Lemon was better. I am now taking Natural Factors, but not for long enough to know if it's one to give me acne or not. One advantage to this brand is that each capsule has more EPA/DHA so I can take less.
JL
Posted by laima on July 23, 2006, at 12:53:17
In reply to Fish oil and acne, posted by JLx on July 23, 2006, at 12:48:34
Very interesting! Thanks for sharing your information.> After someone suggested on this board that this problem may be relieved by trying another brand, I tried that and sure enough, no more fish oil induced acne.
>
> I used to take a cheap supermarket brand or NOW brand. Kal Lemon was better. I am now taking Natural Factors, but not for long enough to know if it's one to give me acne or not. One advantage to this brand is that each capsule has more EPA/DHA so I can take less.
>
> JL
Posted by dessbee on July 23, 2006, at 16:44:21
In reply to Re: Fish oil and acne » JLx, posted by laima on July 23, 2006, at 12:53:17
Magnesium is another supplement that will aggrevate acne.
It can also make depression and insomnia worse.
Posted by laima on July 23, 2006, at 17:30:55
In reply to Re: Magnesium and acne, posted by dessbee on July 23, 2006, at 16:44:21
Wow. I'm really interested to hear of it- particularly since I saw a library book in which the author claimed magnesium was great for anxiety.> Magnesium is another supplement that will aggrevate acne.
>
> It can also make depression and insomnia worse.
Posted by dessbee on July 24, 2006, at 5:05:14
In reply to Re: Magnesium and acne » dessbee, posted by laima on July 23, 2006, at 17:30:55
I think the problem is that magnesium makes your skin dry, which clogs your pores.
Posted by JLx on July 24, 2006, at 15:27:07
In reply to Re: Magnesium and acne, posted by dessbee on July 24, 2006, at 5:05:14
> I think the problem is that magnesium makes your skin dry, which clogs your pores.
Your source? I don't see anything on the web about that.
I used to have dry itchy skin, which was cleared up in one day with supplementing 800 mg of magnesium.
From The Acne Resource Center: http://www.acne-resource.org/acne-articles/nutrient-intake.html
"Another mineral helpful in improving acne is magnesium. It is essential for metabolism, aids in growth of bones and is the body's major electrolyte. It is helpful in relieving stress and is responsible for the health of the heart, blood circulation, blood pressure and overall relaxation. As stress triggers off adrenal hormones, magnesium can help in reducing stress, relaxing muscles and thus reducing formation of extra hormones and avoiding acne worsening."
JL
Posted by dessbee on July 25, 2006, at 5:40:36
In reply to Re: Magnesium/acne/dry skin » dessbee, posted by JLx on July 24, 2006, at 15:27:07
Side effects/Risk factors from magnesium:
Cardiovascular disease, muscle / joint pains,
lowdry skin, low stomach acid, low blood pressure,depression, fatigue, higher risk for several cancers, fatigue, diarrhea, osteoporosis, joint / spinal degeneration, dehydration, muscle spasms / crampshttp://www.acu-cell.com/acn2.html
It seems like you have poor skin circulation and that is probably why magnesium helps you.
Magnesium causes vasodilatation.
It also inhibits release of histamine which reduces your itch.We are all different but 800 mg of magnesium is certainly not for everyone.
References on the Internet is always uncertain, especially when it comes to supplements since the industry and scientists only look at benefits. They never/rarely discuss risks.
In Europe they are actually taking steps to limit high dose pills, since improper self-medication is actually making people more sick and causing increased health care costs.
Posted by JLx on July 25, 2006, at 19:39:57
In reply to Re: Magnesium/acne/dry skin » JLx, posted by dessbee on July 25, 2006, at 5:40:36
> Side effects/Risk factors from magnesium:
>
> Cardiovascular disease, muscle / joint pains,
> lowdry skin, low stomach acid, low blood pressure,depression, fatigue, higher risk for several cancers, fatigue, diarrhea, osteoporosis, joint / spinal degeneration, dehydration, muscle spasms / cramps
>
> http://www.acu-cell.com/acn2.htmlThe complete heading that you cut off:
High levels / Overdose / Toxicity / Negative Side Effects - Symptoms and/or Risk Factors:
Who is to say what is "high levels" for some people? Obviously if magnesium doesn't make you feel good, it's too high. But perhaps if I hadn't tried 800 mg AND quit eating calcium rich foods, I wouldn't have had the full benefit of magnesium that I've had.
I consider Acu-Cell a somewhat suspect website, as well. Have you investigated it thoroughly? It's selling a form of "cell analysis" that nobody else apparently finds credible.
> It seems like you have poor skin circulation and that is probably why magnesium helps you.
> Magnesium causes vasodilatation.
> It also inhibits release of histamine which reduces your itch.
>
> We are all different but 800 mg of magnesium is certainly not for everyone.
>
> References on the Internet is always uncertain, especially when it comes to supplements since the industry and scientists only look at benefits. They never/rarely discuss risks.
> In Europe they are actually taking steps to limit high dose pills, since improper self-medication is actually making people more sick and causing increased health care costs.The benefit of high dose supplements sometimes is cost, but in general when experimenting, less is more to start.
You'll notice, however, that nobody thinks twice about recommending to nearly all women that they supplement huge amounts of calcium while very rarely recommending that they include magnesium with it, despite the potential dangers of high calcium such as calcified arteries and calcium kidney stones. I have had a kidney stone from taking supplements and it's no fun.
JL
Posted by dessbee on July 26, 2006, at 16:29:10
In reply to Re: Magnesium/acne/dry skin » dessbee, posted by JLx on July 25, 2006, at 19:39:57
Have you ever checked your calcium levels?
You may be suffering from hypercalcemia.
Posted by LOOPS on July 27, 2006, at 11:20:01
In reply to Re: Magnesium/acne/dry skin » JLx, posted by dessbee on July 26, 2006, at 16:29:10
If you take too much magnesium you get diarrhea. I'd like to see someone keep taking too much! Most people cut back or take a break.
I've had arrhythmia from taking just magnesium on its own for too long, but that disappears with adding back calcium. Same goes for insomnia - magnesium on its own relieved that one but after awhile I needed calcium as well to stay asleep.
People need different ratios of calcium and magnesium, but I don't think there is anybody that wouldn't benefit from more magnesium either from diet or supplements. Everybody I have recommended magnesium to has has very good results - a friend is taking 300mg a day which is a very moderate amount IMO - he can't stop raving about the stuff (he has asthma and SAD).
I had another friend who has suffered from migraines for years, and who already takes a multi-vit. I told her about Mg and where to get it. She ended up buying the Mg oxide pills which is the only cheap Mg available here (apart from Mg chloride crystals but she wasn't up to mixing that) - one week later I saw her at a party and she said the migraines had disappeared (she was taking 500mg a day) and she could even drink a beer again without setting one off.
That surprised me as Mg oxide is supposed to be crap but obviously she was absorbing it.
Loops
Posted by JLx on July 27, 2006, at 18:27:16
In reply to Re: Magnesium/acne/dry skin » JLx, posted by dessbee on July 26, 2006, at 16:29:10
> Have you ever checked your calcium levels?
>
> You may be suffering from hypercalcemia.I don't go to doctors, no insurance, no money. I very much doubt if I have high calcium levels now that I no longer take supplements and I take magnesium.
JL
Posted by dessbee on July 27, 2006, at 19:26:58
In reply to Re: Magnesium/acne/dry skin, posted by LOOPS on July 27, 2006, at 11:20:01
Good points LOOPS
I think magnesium/calcium supplements can be quite difficult since you have to find both the right ratio of calcium/magnesium and the right dose.
A problem with high dose treatment is that side effects often turn up later than sooner, which makes it difficult to associate symptoms with the supplement.
Posted by LOOPS on July 28, 2006, at 17:27:06
In reply to Re: Magnesium/acne/dry skin » LOOPS, posted by dessbee on July 27, 2006, at 19:26:58
What's really odd is my arrhythmia disappeared a couple of weeks back - still taking both Ca and Mg but in varying amounts.
My sister is another to benefit from magnesium - but she is aware of the need to take Mg and Ca separately, and also to ignore the usual 2:1 ratio, as people have different needs.
It just depends what your diet is like. I for one still eat cheese, but I don't eat much of it, and the rest of my diet is meat, fat and some vegetables. Most people seem to do well with a little or a lot of Mg at first - but then some people need to add back in Ca- not all though - I know JLX (sorry if misspelt) needs just magnesium to stay on top of things.
Loops
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