![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 43. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Cynthia M on May 9, 2000, at 11:31:06
Ok this is different, or maybe I have just not heard much about it here.I fell into a horrible rage this past weekend and was typically throwing things swearing and wanting to smoke , drink etc ( my husband wouldn't "allow"it ) so I was angry at my husband too, thinking of jumping from a moving car . All of this and then yesterday saw my psych and I wasn't able to really listen to what she said and then I came home and cut on my wrists with a pair of scissors. I have done this before and am able to find a strange sense of relief from this. Cutting with something realitively dull, like scissors. and then just until I see blood. I can count over a dozen marks and it really does burn this morning ( I guess serves me right huh?) OK the really strange thing is that I feel so much better today. I guess when I am raging if I turn the anger inside this is what I get, almost instant relief. Any comments or questions. Am I alone in this? Is it just as weird as I think it is?
Posted by Noa on May 9, 2000, at 12:28:59
In reply to Rage and Cutting, posted by Cynthia M on May 9, 2000, at 11:31:06
Not so wierd. There are others here who cut. There is also a book listed on Dr. Bob's reading list, I think it is called "Cutting".
Posted by stjames on May 9, 2000, at 12:30:24
In reply to Rage and Cutting, posted by Cynthia M on May 9, 2000, at 11:31:06
> Ok this is different, or maybe I have just not heard much about it here.
James here....Sad to say that cutting is not uncommon. Persons who do this say it releaves the pain. Were you abused as a child or young person ?
james
Posted by grrrilla on May 9, 2000, at 12:34:27
In reply to Rage and Cutting, posted by Cynthia M on May 9, 2000, at 11:31:06
> Ok this is different, or maybe I have just not heard much about it here.I fell into a horrible rage this past weekend and was typically throwing things swearing and wanting to smoke , drink etc ( my husband wouldn't "allow"it ) so I was angry at my husband too, thinking of jumping from a moving car . All of this and then yesterday saw my psych and I wasn't able to really listen to what she said and then I came home and cut on my wrists with a pair of scissors. I have done this before and am able to find a strange sense of relief from this. Cutting with something realitively dull, like scissors. and then just until I see blood. I can count over a dozen marks and it really does burn this morning ( I guess serves me right huh?) OK the really strange thing is that I feel so much better today. I guess when I am raging if I turn the anger inside this is what I get, almost instant relief. Any comments or questions. Am I alone in this? Is it just as weird as I think it is?
------------------------------------
You're definitely not alone. There was a long thread about self-injury in the March 21 archive. You might like to have a look at it. I think it's actually pretty common. Veterinarians prescribe Prozac for dogs who self injure, so I guess it's even crossing species!
It's not weird but I'm sure it is distressing for you. Good luck.
Posted by Janice on May 9, 2000, at 15:07:51
In reply to Rage and Cutting, posted by Cynthia M on May 9, 2000, at 11:31:06
Hi Cynthia,
I also have rages like yours--until recently, about 1to 2 a year on average. Instead of hurting myself, I tend to take all my anger out on other people--like boyfriends.
But to me it sounds like the exact same thing. Something 'triggers' my anger -- my last rage was triggered when my boyfriend was 1 hour and 15 minutes late to pick me up.
Then the rage builds and builds and builds., and i have very little control over myself--this is very scary. During my last rage, I supposidly threatened my boyfriend's life.
And then something happens, and the rage peaks then explodes, and I begin a quick ascention back to reality.
Most times Cynthia, I cannot even remember large parts of the rages, and people will tell me the things I have done. I will remember I had a rage, but not what happened during it.
My psychiatrist explained it to me as a sort of seizure. That my brain gets triggered somehow, and then has this seizure that continues to escalate, until it peaks, and then finishes. This makes sense to me because, for the life of me, they do not make any sense afterward. I am embarrassed and usually single again.
I haven't had a big one now for about 3 years. I've had a few small ones, but I find them easy to control.
On a smaller scale, I've been practising trichotillomania since I was 5 years old.
If you have any questions, please ask, Janice
Posted by tina on May 9, 2000, at 16:07:41
In reply to Re: Rage and Cutting, posted by Janice on May 9, 2000, at 15:07:51
> Hi Cynthia: I have the same thing. It mostly happens to me when I'm angry at myself for doing something I consider to be stupid or useless. Sometimes I do it for no reason at all. I find that I am not really suicidal but it relieves my anger and pain to see myself bleeding. I always use something other than a knife. I seem to want the pain, like some kind of punishment. You aren't weird, you just must have some issues to work out. Mine is emotional and physical abuse that I suffered as a kid but still haven't found a psych that I'm comfortable enough with to really let go. I hope you can. Best wishes--You're not alone. Tina
Hi Cynthia,
>
> I also have rages like yours--until recently, about 1to 2 a year on average. Instead of hurting myself, I tend to take all my anger out on other people--like boyfriends.
>
> But to me it sounds like the exact same thing. Something 'triggers' my anger -- my last rage was triggered when my boyfriend was 1 hour and 15 minutes late to pick me up.
>
> Then the rage builds and builds and builds., and i have very little control over myself--this is very scary. During my last rage, I supposidly threatened my boyfriend's life.
>
> And then something happens, and the rage peaks then explodes, and I begin a quick ascention back to reality.
>
> Most times Cynthia, I cannot even remember large parts of the rages, and people will tell me the things I have done. I will remember I had a rage, but not what happened during it.
>
> My psychiatrist explained it to me as a sort of seizure. That my brain gets triggered somehow, and then has this seizure that continues to escalate, until it peaks, and then finishes. This makes sense to me because, for the life of me, they do not make any sense afterward. I am embarrassed and usually single again.
>
> I haven't had a big one now for about 3 years. I've had a few small ones, but I find them easy to control.
>
> On a smaller scale, I've been practising trichotillomania since I was 5 years old.
>
> If you have any questions, please ask, Janice
Posted by grrrilla on May 9, 2000, at 20:01:57
In reply to Re: Rage and Cutting, posted by Janice on May 9, 2000, at 15:07:51
> Hi Cynthia,
>
> I also have rages like yours--until recently, about 1to 2 a year on average. Instead of hurting myself, I tend to take all my anger out on other people--like boyfriends.
>
> But to me it sounds like the exact same thing. Something 'triggers' my anger -- my last rage was triggered when my boyfriend was 1 hour and 15 minutes late to pick me up.
>
> Then the rage builds and builds and builds., and i have very little control over myself--this is very scary. During my last rage, I supposidly threatened my boyfriend's life.
>
> And then something happens, and the rage peaks then explodes, and I begin a quick ascention back to reality.
>
> Most times Cynthia, I cannot even remember large parts of the rages, and people will tell me the things I have done. I will remember I had a rage, but not what happened during it.
>
> My psychiatrist explained it to me as a sort of seizure. That my brain gets triggered somehow, and then has this seizure that continues to escalate, until it peaks, and then finishes. This makes sense to me because, for the life of me, they do not make any sense afterward. I am embarrassed and usually single again.
>
> I haven't had a big one now for about 3 years. I've had a few small ones, but I find them easy to control.
>
> On a smaller scale, I've been practising trichotillomania since I was 5 years old.
>
> If you have any questions, please ask, Janice
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Janice Do you have any sympathy for the people who are convicted and in prison who describe their rage in a very similiar way? Insanity pleas almost never work. It must be horrible to know you have threatened the life of another person. I can't imagine that. Are you ever afraid you will hurt someone? Or that you have hurt someone during one of these seizures and don't remember it?It was brave of you to share this. Sometimes it seems like everybody wants to be Kay Jamison and nobody wants to be the Son of Sam (not that you are either). {:O)
Posted by Cynthia M on May 9, 2000, at 20:30:19
In reply to Re: Rage and Cutting/Janice, posted by grrrilla on May 9, 2000, at 20:01:57
this is interesting to me that there are so many people here who can identify with this. Janice thank you, thank you, I have episodes that are so similar in the fact that I can't remember anything until after a rage and a good sleep. Then I have my husband or kids telling me what I have missed. It is a strange experience. I have not suffered abuse as a child that I am aware of, but I definitely have issues. Thanks for the replies.
Posted by Janice on May 9, 2000, at 21:46:55
In reply to Re: Rage and Cutting/Janice, posted by grrrilla on May 9, 2000, at 20:01:57
Hi Grrrilla,
Yes, I have alot of sympathy for people convicted in prison. I don't believe there is much, if any, difference between them and me--except maybe I am a small woman and, when not crazy, with a very gentle temperment. I also live in a country without guns. One day, I imagine, humans will look back on our society in this century and feel ashamed as to how we treat these people. By this time, of course, there will be a cure for all mental illnesses.I am not afraid of hurting anyone mostly because my rages usually occured when I was alone or they were directed at my boyfriends who were much bigger than I am, and they seemed to be able to hold their own against me. 98% of my rages are psychological, not violent. And mostly, I am not afraid of hurting anyone because they don't seem to happen anymore--well not for the past 2 years or so.
I always thought Kay Jamison was kind of pollyannish anyway,
Janice
Posted by bob on May 9, 2000, at 23:21:44
In reply to Re: Rage and Cutting--Grrrilla!, posted by Janice on May 9, 2000, at 21:46:55
Another common motive for cutting is control. We're hard-wired to enjoy control, and when you get stuck in a situation where you're experiencing pain that is beyond your control to stop, a number of things can happen. One is turning to self-injury. Not only can the pain you cause yourself push aside the other pain for a while, the perception that you are in control of this process can be extremely powerful. I think this is particularly true when the "other" pain's cause is diffuse, ill-defined, perhaps even attributed to an unknown or unknowable source (fate, luck, God, whatever). It's not just that YOU have control, but the precision you can exert in doing the self-injury, that's such a rush and that makes it soooooo different from that other pain.
my 2cents,
bob
Posted by lizzie on May 10, 2000, at 9:18:13
In reply to Re: Rage and Cutting, posted by stjames on May 9, 2000, at 12:30:24
When I get angry at others (or myself)
I wind up cutting. It's like I can focus
all my pain in one area and then practice
shutting the pain off. So all the hurt
and anger and rage goes to where I am
cutting and then I dissociate and `shut'
the pain off. Usually successfully turning
down the anger and rage.As a child I was never allowed a negative emotion
mommy couldn't handle that. So as an adult my
anger is a fragment of my personality that is
cut off from the rest of Me and needs to be reintegrated.I was also sexually abused as a child -and a lot of
us cut or SI in some manner.
Posted by Cynthia M on May 10, 2000, at 10:10:28
In reply to Re: Rage and Cutting, posted by bob on May 9, 2000, at 23:21:44
bob- I hear you here. This is a consideration thathas never been mentioned to me before. I am a confessed control freak, and it seems that when things are happening that are out of my control , as is common during a rage, I turn to cutting. I guess it is just a means of gaining some control over things that I cannot have any influence on. thanks you for this interesting insight. I have often heard the child abuse connection- but never the control issue. I was never abused as a child and it had kept me wondering if I am some sort of far-fetched abberation. Thanks Again, I am feeling edgy today and I am concerned that I may need to increase my meds or change something since I wouldn't put it past myself to cut again today and I have never cut twice in such a short time- It is alsointeresting that I don't remember most of what tookplace this weekend with my family having to fill in the blanks for me. Really scary. Anyway , thanks for the input. I am not sure what to do about this or even if there is a way to stop it. I guess Time will tell.-Cyndy
Posted by Janet on May 10, 2000, at 12:16:52
In reply to Re: Rage and Cutting, posted by Cynthia M on May 10, 2000, at 10:10:28
I think Bob is right, it probably is a power thing. I've never told anyone this before, but sometimes I have to hit myself with a belt and there is a feeling of ecstacy and control.
I was not sexually abused, but I grew up in a domineering home that included a religious cult with MANY rules.
I went through a period of 3 months where I felt that if I did not kill myself, I'd explode. It was a compulsive thing like the belt. I wanted that pain of cutting out my tongue.
It was different than being suicidal out of depression. It is hard to explain. This is hard to talk about. I know now, that it is so bizzarre for me to be like that. I was in the hospital for 3 weeks and had a horrible experience that shocked me into my right enough mind to know that I had to lie, cheat and steal just to convince the doctor to release me. I then went home to bed until it passed. I was so scared of myself and of what I would do.
Posted by Mommy to an Angel! on May 10, 2000, at 18:40:34
In reply to Rage and Cutting, posted by Cynthia M on May 9, 2000, at 11:31:06
I used to cut, too. I always cut meaningful things -- like words. My cuts were never random. I once read that people cut when they are afraid of lose (e.g., the lose of a loved one) I know for me that was most likely true. I stopped therapy about 3 - 4 years ago. My shrink said I had a flight to sanity. I haven't even considered cutting since then, in some ways I can't even remember what it felt like to want to cut. But if I try really hard to get back to that scary place, I really was afraid of lose... afraid my marriage was falling apart, afraid no one loved me, afraid my career was failing me. I felt like I was losing everything and I cut.
That time seems so dark and so scary. I'm glad that's behind me. I wish everyone a speedy flight to sanity:)
Mommy to an Angel!
Posted by boBB on May 10, 2000, at 21:21:32
In reply to Re: Rage and Cutting, posted by Mommy to an Angel! on May 10, 2000, at 18:40:34
I prefer burning. I "self-initiated" myself as a 14-year-old by burning the four directions into my skin with a cone of incense. Recently, after being infatuated with someone who was absolutely an untenable partner, but who liked my attention, I ended it by holding a lighter to my arm long enought to cause a half-dollar-sized injury that lasted several weeks. My coworkers asked and I just said "don't worry about it." She never knew I did it. It was not a demonstration. but everytime I thought of her until the injury healed, I had a physical example of the kind of mental pain involved in the relationship.
Body piercing and tattoing both involve voluntary pain. Bobs idea of control is a pretty good take on it, but I don't concur with the hint of pathology that goes with his analysis.
The Lakota and Dakota sundance, which is a very painful, four day food and water fast while dancing all day with eagle talons peircing the skin on the pecs, arms or backs. On the final day, some tear the talons out by pulling back on the thong that holds them to the center pole. Tradition, I've been told, dictates that dancers return for the ceremony four years in a row. Some of the strongest people I know, mentally, sundanced. The canadian dances tend to be more sacred- when you get down into southern minnesota, a lot of city folks join in and the atmosphere is kindof unsettled. Some white folks - new age types - have offended the tribes by adopting the practice for themselves. hell, I am violating protocols by even talking about it here.
The sweat lodge too involves voluntary suffering. In modern times, people are quite specific about the value of enduring suffering. I have known some rage-oriented people who sweat, but who knows how much more out of control their rage would be without the practice in the sweat lodge.
bobs on the right track, but I think we can suffer as a way of learning discipline. Another take is that volunary suffering violates our constructd reality and bridges the gap between fantasy and reality. In fantasy there are plenty of truths to be discovered.
On threats, I watch attorneys and jurys wrestle with that issue. the mood in schools is zero tolerance to threats, but others say threats are just a form of speach.
For my part, I think we could all do with a little less threatening, a little less rage, and a little more self sacrifice.
Posted by bob on May 10, 2000, at 21:38:05
In reply to Re: Rage and Cutting, posted by boBB on May 10, 2000, at 21:21:32
> ... Bobs idea of control is a pretty good take on it, but I don't concur with the hint of pathology that goes with his analysis.
Like any "generalized" behavior, there can be any set of valid explanations.
The point I'd like to re-emphasize is that it's the *perception* of control that counts. When I get into self-injury, I have little real control, in any rational meaning of the term, over what I am doing. I cannot stop myself from harming me. Some of my more subtle punishments are so ritualized they're almost beneath my awareness.
Of course, "rational" is not an appropriate frame of reference when I'm in that state of mind anyway. I think that's the hardest thing to try to explain to someone who, for lack of a better expression, can't accept self-injury ... it's just too taboo. It violates what is "rational" -- and those who are so repulsed by it (in my experience) have too much faith in the rationality of the human mind.
cheers,
bob
Posted by Noa on May 11, 2000, at 9:52:58
In reply to Re: Rage and Cutting, posted by Mommy to an Angel! on May 10, 2000, at 18:40:34
May I ask about your "handle", Mommy to an Angel!?
You mentioned loss in your post,well, and that made me wonder. You don't need to answer if this question is too intrusive.
Posted by Cynthia M on May 11, 2000, at 10:23:09
In reply to Re: Rage and Cutting, posted by Noa on May 11, 2000, at 9:52:58
I ended up cutting again yesterday, worse than i ever have. My pdoc suggested 50mg seroquel and I took 100mgs and it didn't help. There is sort of a ritualistic essence to cutting but mostly it is a way of dealing with things that i am otherwise unable to deal with. I can't go back in time and change all of the huge mistakes I have made that have lead to the ruin of my childrens lives, specifically my 15 year old daughter. I am not the kind of parent that I wanted to be (June Cleaver) and I feel helpless to fix things to the way they should be. ok i am not making any sense but I know that for a while I will have to hope It stays cool here so that I can contiue to wear long sleeves. Sorry for the babbble- Cyndy
Posted by bob on May 11, 2000, at 10:43:11
In reply to Re: Rage and Cutting, posted by Cynthia M on May 11, 2000, at 10:23:09
> I ended up cutting again yesterday, worse than i ever have. My pdoc suggested 50mg seroquel and I took 100mgs and it didn't help. There is sort of a ritualistic essence to cutting but mostly it is a way of dealing with things that i am otherwise unable to deal with. I can't go back in time and change all of the huge mistakes I have made that have lead to the ruin of my childrens lives, specifically my 15 year old daughter. I am not the kind of parent that I wanted to be (June Cleaver) and I feel helpless to fix things to the way they should be. ok i am not making any sense but I know that for a while I will have to hope It stays cool here so that I can contiue to wear long sleeves. Sorry for the babbble- Cyndy
Hey-- Babble means never having to say you're sorry.
If you don't mind me asking, what triggered the cutting for you yesterday?
be well,
bob
Posted by Cynthia M on May 11, 2000, at 20:34:46
In reply to Re: Rage and Cutting, posted by bob on May 11, 2000, at 10:43:11
> Hey-- Babble means never having to say you're sorry.
>
> If you don't mind me asking, what triggered the cutting for you yesterday?
>
> be well,
> bob
bob- I think that it had something to do with sitting in ona counselling session with my daughter and having her tell my therapist basically what a horrible mother i am. Today I went in to mental health because I can't seem to get past this rage episode and while I was in the counselors office she went totalk to the pdoc and I overheard her co-workers in the hall talking about me , mentioning me by name and what I had done( cut) and saying that I was just trying to get attention. Talk about rage! I told the counsellor when she came back and left. The worst is my daughter heard, she was in the lobby and heard now I have to explain to her. What a pain! Help!
Posted by bob on May 11, 2000, at 23:26:06
In reply to Re: Rage and Cutting, posted by Cynthia M on May 11, 2000, at 20:34:46
> bob- I think that it had something to do with sitting in ona counselling session with my daughter and having her tell my therapist basically what a horrible mother i am.
Youch!! Geez, Cyndy, that was harsh. I'd call that a trigger. So you're supposed to sit there quietly and be supportive while you're being told you're just the opposite. I remember a discussion we had here in Babble a few months ago on cutting and someone (who didn't cut or do anything self-injurious) thought just talking about it might be triggering some of us, since some of the descriptions were so vivid. NOTHING on that discussion hit me like that comment of yours -- I can feel the "feedback loop". You've got to break it. You've got to focus on the facts of how you ARE a GOOD mother. On how teens are so ego-focused that they can have no awareness of the impact of their own words. Of just how manipulated you were in that situation.
> Today I went in to mental health because I can't seem to get past this rage episode and while I was in the counselors office she went totalk to the pdoc and I overheard her co-workers in the hall talking about me , mentioning me by name and what I had done( cut) and saying that I was just trying to get attention. Talk about rage! I told the counsellor when she came back and left.
Is this the same therapist as above? HELLO! How f*ck*ng irresponsible! Either (a) she doesn't know the first thing about self-injury or (b) she had better educate her colleagues, because they sure as hell don't know a damn thing about it.
Where are my steel-toed *ss-kicking boots when I need them? grrrrrrrrrrr...
Not only should you tell her just how unprofessional that was of her and her colleagues, maybe she should bear the responsibility of explaining this to your daughter (after she educates herself). Did she do NOTHING to defuse that bomb your daughter dropped on you? Does this therapist regularly let your daughter trash you like this while you're sitting there, or do you rarely sit in on her sessions? Maybe I'm getting a bit carried away with my speculations -- I'm assuming a lot from a little information -- it's just that it's so easy to see myself in your place and to see a pattern of discourse that would trigger me in a heartbeat.
> The worst is my daughter heard, she was in the lobby and heard now I have to explain to her. What a pain! Help!
Well, that is definitely ONE problem your therapist should bear some responsibility for coming up with a quick solution. It's so hard to say anything from this side with so little information on your relationship with your daughter.
Let me throw this out, and you can take it or tell me I'm nuts (which, of course, is true ;^).
Like I said earlier, there's nothing rational about my thinking when I get into one my rages against myself. A few months back, right before heading off to therapy I had stopped at home (coming from work) to check the dogs and the mail, and I'd received a letter which triggered me. That and a 30 minute subway ride, and I walked into that session completely, hysterically irrational and seething with self-hate. Somehow, my therapist was able to say, in words and in tone, the equivalent of a good, hard slap in the face. It didn't snap me out of it immediately -- I was too stunned and worried that she was furious with me (she wasn't angry at all, but quite concerned) -- but by the time I got home I had to call her to thank her and tell her she was right in what she said, no matter how hard I tried to deny it while I was with her.
The point of the story is that she interrupted my delusions of how evil I was, of how I deserved to be punished and hit me with some empirical facts in refutation to what had triggered me in the first place.
Now, maybe you breaching this topic alone with your daughter may not be the best thing to do. But maybe your therapist could earn the title and bring it out in the open with you and your daughter together. Coming from you alone, it could be interpreted as who knows what, but the worst would be an accusation of blame -- of your daughter thinking that it's entirely her fault that you cut yourself. Maybe I'm overly optimistic in how having your therapist mediate this revelation could be something positive for both (or all three) of you, but this is what I would hope for the two of you: (1) that your daughter would see just how much you care, even if you can't express it in a way she can see it right now, and that (2) your daughter could then get past the "my mother's an ogre" front to talk about what lies behind it.
Maybe THAT would be something within both of your reaches to fix, to change -- something truly within your control to set right -- instead of making you feeling you need to punish yourself for crimes you can't identify but you're sure you've committed all the same.
I hope this makes some sense to you, Cyndy. Your whole post just resonates too much in me to allow me to separate enough from my own perspective to maybe see yours more clearly -- but perhaps that might give me some incite as well. I hope it helps.
be well,
bob
Posted by quilter on May 12, 2000, at 0:02:38
In reply to Re: Rage and Cutting, posted by Cynthia M on May 11, 2000, at 20:34:46
>
Cynthia, I agree with what bob said but I also think that a letter to the director of the center regarding the totally unprofessional behavior of those employees is in order. Include the incident as you experienced it, and its effect on your daughter as well. Copies should also be sent to the pdoc supervising your counselor, and if this is a publically funded facility, to the state department of health ( or its equivalent). No one should be treated that way! Quilter
Posted by bob on May 12, 2000, at 0:41:48
In reply to Re: Rage and Cutting, posted by quilter on May 12, 2000, at 0:02:38
You know, I have a number of friends who are clinicians in one role or another -- they all know I'm a research psychologist by training, so we're kind of kindred spirits. I try to be as "out" about my depression as I can, and most (not all) of the time I've been able to get away with it.
But the thing I hear from nearly all my clinically-oriented friends is just how nasty things can turn if you're a mental health professional AND a "patient". Maybe it's the same mentality that turns the attitudes of police officers (like my brother and a few of my friends back home) against the thought that "criminals" can ever be "reformed" -- instead, they're just defective people. Too much contact to see the big picture. Familiarity breeds contempt.
[well, except for the more tradional, dynamically-trained folk I know. they tend to think everyone has issues, and that those who are training them have the nuttiest sets of issues of all. maybe that's what years of engaging in psychotherapy from both sides of the couch does to the human mind eventually]
It's bad enough when you're talking about medications, because that bears with it a "faulty genetic stamp" for those working within the medical model and lacking compassion. But when you start getting into behaviors that "look weird" -- like compulsive behaviors -- the stigmas from the broader culture can start kicking in as well. When it comes to cutting and self-injury -- well, like I said a few posts back, it's such a taboo. I mean, you make make fun of the nose-scratcher or the hand-washer behind their backs, but cutting can carry such heavily-loaded connotations of something being seriously, dangerously wrong with that person. I know that we all can have a tremendous amount of empathy for one another because even though we suffer through different disorders, we all walk such similar paths. But I really have a had time imagining that anyone who is "normal" could ever grasp what self-injury is like for those who do it. Even my own therapist, for whom I have the greatest respect and who has spent a lot of time treating teens and young women who engage in self-injury, said to me that she didn't really believe that anyone could truly be a masochist.
I'm trying to, pardon the turn of phrase, disabuse her of that notion. Not that I think I'll succeed, and not because of any bias on her part -- she's just too damned optimistic about the ability of people to heal sooner or later!
Anyway, sometimes it takes a kick in the face to wake these other folk up.
Go buy yourself some good boots, Cynthia!
bob
Posted by Noa on May 12, 2000, at 8:20:13
In reply to Re: Rage and Cutting, posted by bob on May 12, 2000, at 0:41:48
I agree that it was totally unprofessional of your counselor to talk about you in the hallway with other clinicians.
It wasn't a good thing to let your daughter trash you without defusing it, but even if this felt out of the skill area of the counselor, she could have at least ended the session, sent your daughter to the waiting room, and met with you for a while to debrief you and see how you experienced the trashing, and help you put it into perspective or at least to help you figure out how to make sense of your daughter's rage, and figure out what might be a constructive way to handle the rage--yours and your daughter's.
Maybe in addition to Quilter's suggestion of a letter you need something more immediate, like a consult with another mental health professional. If you are limited to this mental health center, ask for the clinical supervisor. Ask to have a session with him or her to discuss the effects of all of this on you and your daughter, with the idea that the clinical supervisor will then consult and instruct the counselor in better care.
Good luck.
Posted by Cynthia M on May 12, 2000, at 10:07:48
In reply to Re: Rage and Cutting, posted by Noa on May 12, 2000, at 8:20:13
Some clarification- the counsellor that i saw yesterday was a crisis nurse. i had never seen her before. She had gone to talk with the pdoc regarding a possible change in meds and that is when her co-workers began the discussion in the hall. The day before my daughter and i saw my therapist whom i have been seeing since August and felt that i had a good relationship with. We talked together with my daughter and when she ( my daughter) started becoming acusatory my therapist asked me to step out. i did (boy that was hard) then i came back in but felt as though i had lost the only person who was on my side ( my therapist) So Now , my daughter is going to see my therapist separately and i will not be going back to the crisis nurse because that "team" seems to be so horribly insensitive. i see my therapist this morning and will discuss where we go from here and how i felt about that session. My older son is seeing the pdoc this am for evaluation of BP andi guess i can pretend that i am just fine and not still raging ( which , sigh,i am ) Also, It gets better, We have been on the Medicaid program here and just got a notice yesterday that we willhave "SHARE OF COST" OF $339.00 a month. ( we have 9 kids and my husbands gross income last moth was 2300.00. So as of June 1st i won't be able to afford any counselling or doc appts. or meds. Did i also mention that we signed bankruptcy papers this week? And last week got a notice of an investigaton of welfare fraud. Totally unfounded and i know precipitated by a person whom i had an affair with and he was pissed because i chose my husband and he got stuck with his wife and now he is retaliating. i am at a loss. So now i am trying to figure out how to live without any support system here and no meds. Oh, one good thing is that we just found out yesterday that my daughter is hypo-thyroid. maybe that will accountfor some of her depression. i have four daughters, If this is typical i don't think i will be able to survive. i guess from know on when i cut i just don't tell anyone and deal with it by myself so no one thinks i am just "trying to get attention" i am at a loss. i trust no one that i was supposed to be trusting all this time. today's counselling session should be interesting since i am getting increasingly angry. what now?
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