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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by one woman cine on January 12, 2007, at 7:45:45
In reply to Re: I told my Mom about my mini OD, posted by laima on January 11, 2007, at 21:21:03
"With this assessment I respectfully have to disagree- sounds like classic manipulation and power struggle to me. "
Ok, we disagree - but as far as I know Deneb isn't working and living under her parents roof - how should a parent cope with a child who wants to self harm?
Parents take away cars, they take away privileges; I think a bank card and money are privilege if you do not earn them yourself. What would you do if you were Denebs parents?
Posted by laima on January 12, 2007, at 8:39:17
In reply to Consequences - laima, posted by one woman cine on January 12, 2007, at 7:45:45
Well, as a veteran of a very dramatic college-era relationship with my own parents, I think Deneb would benefit from some independence rather than having her parents closely monitor and critcize her every move. Time to be ALLOWED to grow up- some parents just never want to let go of micromanaging their children. At least that how it was in my case, and my therapist said it was quite common. In my experience, it exasperated my mood and behavior. I did much better when they backed off a bit and I was trusted to act as an adult. Much better with my own part time job and bank account (rather than asking for an allowance-which always had strings attached), much better in the dorm than at home. If the rationale for taking away a person's bank account is that person therefore won't by pills, I think that's futile. A person who wants pills will still get them one way or another. Meanwhile, the indignity of mother snatching bank account away creates worsened morale, more drama, and a greater gulf.
Posted by one woman cine on January 12, 2007, at 8:47:28
In reply to Re: Consequences - laima, posted by laima on January 12, 2007, at 8:39:17
Laima,
I hear you - trust me - I think the sitaution with Deneb and her parents is circular. But, again - I pose the question - if you were Deneb's parent & she was financially dependent on you, living at home - what would you do to prevent self-harm - you didn't answer the question?
"If the rationale for taking away a person's bank account is that person therefore won't by pills, I think that's futile."
That wasn't my rationale - but you can't self-harm and expect there to be no consequences...
Posted by Dinah on January 12, 2007, at 9:37:51
In reply to Consequences - laima, posted by one woman cine on January 12, 2007, at 7:45:45
> What would you do if you were Denebs parents?
>Give her a hug, reassure her that whatever happened at school, I'd be behind her one hundred percent, and that everything would be ok. Then I'd say I'm sorry that she's feeling so bad, but that my number one priority is to see that she comes to no harm so that she'll be here to work things out, and that I'm going to have to either bring her to the ER or stick to her like glue until we can reach her pdoc the next day, where a harm reduction plan needs to be worked on. I'd tell her that I loved her, with or without a degree, enough to not want to see anyone, including herself, hurt her.
Heaven forfend that my son ever feels that way, but if he does, I would hope that I would respond in such a way that he would feel I could be a resource to him when he needed me.
Any consequences would be worked out with the mental health provider, where hopefully my son would give a limited waiver of confidentiality so that we could discuss self harm and how best to help.
But parents react as they react, and we can't change that reaction, just how we respond to it. I hope Deneb is able to look past her mother's fear and distress and subsequent reaction, and trust her pdoc. And ask her pdoc what to do if she's in crisis after hours, and try to remember to call her pdoc during hors if she's really upset. Over time we can discover who we can and can't talk to about self harm.
Posted by one woman cine on January 12, 2007, at 9:51:28
In reply to Re: Consequences - laima, posted by Dinah on January 12, 2007, at 9:37:51
"And ask her pdoc what to do if she's in crisis after hours, and try to remember to call her pdoc during hors if she's really upset. Over time we can discover who we can and can't talk to about self harm. "
I agree and stated so before, that calling her pdoc would be best - but I think if your child does OD repeatedly and it's not a first time thing - what then? Wait until the next day, what if the next day is too late.
The problem is this a pattern....
Posted by MidnightBlue on January 12, 2007, at 10:34:06
In reply to Re: Deneb » one woman cine, posted by Deneb on January 11, 2007, at 18:50:33
Deneb,
It is BEST not to OD at all! It is not something to play around with. People have had fatal results when they only wanted to "send a message."
MidnightBlue
> How do I change the equation?
>
> I'm guessing I shouldn't post about ODing and I definitely shouldn't post that I've already OD'd.
>
> Why? Because it's best for the group not to know these things. It only upsets people. I have to learn to hold things in and suffer in silence like other people here.
>
> Deneb*
Posted by Deneb on January 12, 2007, at 11:15:38
In reply to Re: Deneb » Deneb, posted by MidnightBlue on January 12, 2007, at 10:34:06
I'm OK. I went to my two classes today. I think I convinced my Mom that I didn't want to harm myself. I convinced her that I was angry about the argument we had and that is why I took the pills.
I don't even really know why I took them.
I decided against phoning my pdoc because I'm OK now and I would just be bothering her. Plus, what is she supposed to do anyways? I'll just tell her everything on our next session.
My Mom didn't take away my money. She doesn't want to punish me, she only wanted to prevent me from buying pills. I don't know if she will let me go to San Diego for the Babble Party now. She doesn't trust me now. My Dad is worried Babble is a cult. My Mom is worried because she read that some people online make suicide pacts together. I admit I used to visit those pro-suicide newsgroups on usenet, but not anymore.
I can't write a letter to my Mom because she doesn't read English and I can't write Chinese.
I really hope my Mom is OK. I must never tell her these things again. My Mom told me that if anything happened to me she would kill herself. She told me about the time she got into an argument and she was ready to jump off a bridge.
Right now I'm still kind of stunned. I have to study.
Deneb*
Posted by one woman cine on January 12, 2007, at 11:19:39
In reply to I'm OK *triggers*, posted by Deneb on January 12, 2007, at 11:15:38
"I'm OK *triggers*" - is probably an unintentional oxymoron...
"I decided against phoning my pdoc"
I'm sorry that you have made that choice for yourself. Good luck Deneb.
Posted by Dinah on January 12, 2007, at 11:33:54
In reply to I'm OK *triggers*, posted by Deneb on January 12, 2007, at 11:15:38
I'm sorry you chose not to call your pdoc. You may *feel* ok now, but what about tonight or over the weekend when triggers come your way? Seems better to me to call her when you know she's there and find out what she wants you to do after hours and tell her what's going on. Because if tonight or tomorrow you aren't OK, you're not going to know what to do.
It's her job to know. Let her do your job.
Posted by AuntieMel on January 12, 2007, at 12:19:17
In reply to I'm OK *triggers*, posted by Deneb on January 12, 2007, at 11:15:38
Deneb, your mom is old school Chinese. What she is saying is pretty typical of mainland people from her generation.
Please, please read "The Joy Luck Club" - it will help you understand. She sounds like the mom in the book, and many people I met in China. The more you understand her the better you will get along.
If you want to write her a letter, send it to me and I will have a friend translate it for you.
And you can have your dad contact me and I will help convince him that we aren't a cult and that I will help take care of you in San Diego. He can't be too afraid of me, can he?
Posted by one woman cine on January 12, 2007, at 12:29:35
In reply to Re: Deep breath » Deneb, posted by AuntieMel on January 12, 2007, at 12:19:17
"Please, please read "The Joy Luck Club" - it will help you understand. She sounds like the mom in the book, and many people I met in China. The more you understand her the better you will get along."
"Deneb, your mom is old school Chinese. "
This seems to be a conclusion and a sterotype - are you Chinese?
I'm offended - not only "old school chinese" have the reaction Deneb's mom did. What does that mean?
Posted by Deneb on January 12, 2007, at 14:11:33
In reply to Re: Deep breath » Deneb, posted by AuntieMel on January 12, 2007, at 12:19:17
I know there is this gigantic cultural and generational rift between me and my parents. I don't understand my parents sometimes. I hate the communication barrier between us. My parents didn't speak to me very much while growing up so my Cantonese vocabulary is limited. Thanks for the book recommendation. I think I've seen bits of the movie before, but I've never read the book.
Thanks for offering to help me with writing a letter, but I don't think it's needed right now. I also wouldn't know what to write.
Thanks for offering to talk to my Dad to convince him we're not a cult, but I don't think that's necessary either. I'm afraid him finding out that Babble is a support forum for people with mental health issues is not going to go well with my Dad. My dad thinks the Internet is full of crazy people and will never understand. My Mom thinks I should deny any and all problems I have no matter what. She told me that even if I were mentally retarded I should never ever admit that there is anything wrong with me. I don't think she would support me going to a mental health support site. She doesn't support me seeing a T or taking medication.
My Mom agreed that if I did well this semester I could go to the Babble Party. I would hope that she holds her end of the deal.
Thanks for saying you'll look after me in San Diego. That's sweet. I'll be OK though. I was OK in Toronto. Are you really thinking about going? If so, that's one more reason for me to do well this semester. :-)
Posted by laima on January 12, 2007, at 14:58:06
In reply to Re: Consequences - laima, posted by one woman cine on January 12, 2007, at 9:51:28
Well, I haven't been following Deneb's history, so there's admittedly much I don't know. I just don't want things to get worse, nor do I want to get a heated discussion going. This episode reminds me so much of what I went through during my college years. So how does one break a pattern?
I almost wonder if next time a class is skipped, if it wouldn't make sense to weigh pros and cons of telling mom.
Pro of telling mom: Confide in mom, full disclosure. Attention ?
Mom knows everything that's going on.Cons of telling mom: Mom knows everything that is going on. Mom becomes upset, argument, Deneb becomes upset, situation escalates.
Pro of not telling mom: No triggerish arguement. Upset is limited to missing the class and whatever consequences might result. Must pick up on own without any prodding. Intrinsic responsability fostered. Confidence in being able to handle one's own affairs has opportunity to strengthen.
Cons of not telling mom: Keep a secret, must take full responsability alone without any outside prodding.
Posted by laima on January 12, 2007, at 15:00:49
In reply to Re: Deep breath » Deneb, posted by AuntieMel on January 12, 2007, at 12:19:17
Your mom obviously cares very much for you and about what happens to you, Deneb. No matter how she expresses it.
Posted by laima on January 12, 2007, at 15:06:48
In reply to Re: Deep breath » Deneb, posted by AuntieMel on January 12, 2007, at 12:19:17
There is a culture of immigrants, roughly that "American Dream" style struggle. A lot of children of immigrants have to deal with growing up in a different reality and mindset than their parents. All I ever heard in college was how my parents sacrificed, struggled, and slaved away so that their children, ie *me*, could fullfill their dream of a better life for generations to come. How laughably easy my life was compared to theirs, how could I plausably be depressed or unhappy, how ungrateful I was, because unlike them I had no clue what hard work, sacrificing or suffering even was, that's quite a burden.
Posted by Farkus on January 12, 2007, at 16:15:42
In reply to Re: Deep breath, posted by laima on January 12, 2007, at 15:06:48
Parenting a grown child has many challenges and can be very difficult as can BEING parented as a grown person.
My experience with the relationship - my almost 25 year old daughter and myself was - independence for us BOTH that led to a different interdependent relationship helped us go to a healthy place and was how things needed to progress. I think she would agree. I'm going to ask her....
Posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on January 12, 2007, at 19:13:56
In reply to General comment, posted by Farkus on January 12, 2007, at 16:15:42
I missed this thread. I'm really sorry I couldn't be there for you Deneb. I understand that you felt really upset and stressed and anxious. I'm sorry that you feel that you have no caring person that you can talk to about these feelings. Sometimes when we feel misunderstood the anxiety and such just start to amplify.
I'm glad that you are posting that you feel "okay". I agree with other posters that you should talk with your pdocT about this. You and her have been through a LOT together. She probably cares for you a great deal. I wonder whether having her after-hours contact information would help you avoid feeling so desperate. Sometimes even knowing that you have that option is enough to help you feel tethered to the world. I also care for my T enough that I don't want to disappoint her by doing something harmful to myself without at least giving her a heads-up.
Take good care of yourself, okay? I don't want you to be hurt.
your friend,
-Ll
Posted by AuntieMel on January 13, 2007, at 13:01:58
In reply to Re: Deep breath, posted by one woman cine on January 12, 2007, at 12:29:35
Uh, I said this because Deneb and I have met in person and talked about this?
Honestly, I wasn't meaning anything mean.
Posted by AuntieMel on January 13, 2007, at 13:05:40
In reply to Re: Deep breath » AuntieMel, posted by Deneb on January 12, 2007, at 14:11:33
Actually, the book gives a better understanding than the movie, though the movie is good.
And, of course I'm thinking of going to San Diego. Unless there is a conflict you can count on it.
So - study hard. And I'm a pretty good study mentor so if you want to email me I can help you with motivation.
Posted by Kath on January 14, 2007, at 16:17:43
In reply to Re: Deneb » one woman cine, posted by Deneb on January 11, 2007, at 14:47:35
**********Dear Deneb - Wow - look at how open you're being in the copy of your post below. I see (as I saw in a post of yours not too long ago) what seems like a more open mature way of really LOOKING at things! I think congratulations are in order for this. Please continue to read my comment below..*******
> I don't know why. I just feel trapped. I feel like my life is ruined because I'm probably on academic probation now. I OD to cope. I dunno. I think I want to get sick and go to the hospital again. I think I like the attention and caring responses.
>
> I think I'm trying to elicit a caring response from people and I'm trying to escape life.
>**************so far so good as to insight, openness, etc. Please continue..****
> I'm a horrible person. ********No you're not! Sounds more like you're trying to get your needs met. What's so darned horrible about that? OK maybe it's not the best way to go about getting your needs met, but the fact that you could LOOK at it & analyze it & Jeez - admit it!!! I hope you're proud of that....I think you should be proud of that! If you've OD'd or thought about it or played with it before, then it's the way you're used to thinking/acting. It could be a 'knee-jerk' response - you feel that way; this is how you've reacted before; you react this way out of habit. Well there are different ways of reacting & you can learn them. I suspect there's a therapist or counsellor on campus? If so, I hope you enlist their help. They're used to students' problems, stresses, etc.
As to your Mom, sounds like she's from not only a different generation, but a different cultural background. Have you seen the movie The Joy Luck Club? It's a pretty wrenching movie, but it's pretty amazing also. About Moms & Daughters. I'm just a white/been-in-Canana-for-a couple of generations woman, but even so, the difference in how my Mom looked at things (when she was alive) & how I look at things & how my daughter looks at things is striking. Add coming from a different cultural background into the 'cooking pot' & things get really complicated. I suggest watching The Joy Luck Club if you haven't already seen it. Get the old Kleenex box ready though - when my daughter & I watched it, it was a 26-tissue movie!!!!!!!!!!! I just think it might make a little clearer how having a Mom from a different culture from the one you're living in, can be really hard.
I doubt you're lazy Deneb. You sure aren't lazy for missing a few classes!!!
But hey! - even if you WERE lazy, being lazy isn't the most heinous crime on the face of the Earth. Being mean is a lot worse & you're sure not mean!!!!!You haven't ruined your Life. So - what if you mucked up a year of your life. What if you had to repeat a year of your schooling? OK - keep track of how much money your parents would have "wasted" on that year. Write it down. Later, even some years later, you can pay them that money back.
It might be feeling frustrating for your Mother to know that they've payed a certain amount of money for your education & to perceive that you're not doing what SHE might have done if she had that opportunity. Parents - or a lot of us - have a bad habit of expecting our kids to do what we WANT them to do - or what we MIGHT do if we were in their situation. Then we can judge them on THAT. Like giving your kid piano lessons without even really finding out if they even particularly WANT piano lessons......and then being righteously upset that they aren't practising very much & don't even seem to care! That type of thing.
Anyway, I wish you the best & I hope that you can learn that it's OK to screw up sometimes. Who among us is perfect????
There's a superb book called, "When I Say No I Feel Guilty". It is a GREAT book. It's probably available from the library. I think it'd be good for you to broswe...even if you only read the "Assertive Bill of Rights" at the front.
The other thing is this: there's a method called 'fogging' I think it's called. When somebody is ranting or whatever, you can pick something from what they're saying that's true, or might be true & acknowledge it. I think it might help in talking with your Mom. But it might not also!!! LOL I was thinking that after her rant you could say, "Hey Mom, I can see how you might see me as being lazy, and how that would be really upsetting for you. I'm going to go away right now & think about it. If I find it true, I'm going to see what I can do about it. But this much I know, Mom. That the more you are upset with me like this about it, the harder it is for me to deal with it & improve. I don't mean any disrespect, but I need to deal with this calmly." or something like that. Obviously I don't know her....something like that might make her say, "HA!!! So you admit it!!!!" or whatever!!
Anyway Deneb. I hope you can stop beating yourself up in various different ways...either by ODing or berating yourself. You - like ALLLLLL of us - are not perfect. Nor are you in any danger of BEING perfect any time soon, if you're like most of us!!! It seems to me like you're a nice person; a caring person; a sensitive person. Those are important things.
I send you biggie hugs, luv, Kath
Posted by Kath on January 14, 2007, at 16:32:09
In reply to Re: Deep breath » AuntieMel, posted by Deneb on January 12, 2007, at 14:11:33
Hey Deneb -
One more thing.....please call the Emergency Dept of your local hospital or a Mental Health Agency or something & get the telephone # of a Crisis Line.
I would think there'd be one. You should be able to get it by phoning a hospital or doctor's office, or even the Non-Emergency Police telephone number.
I think you need to have that telephone # on hand always. The minute you start to feel overwhelmed, try giving them a call. Over this last couple of weeks with my son suicidal; psychotic; ETC I've called my local 310-COPE so many times it's not even funny!!! It really helps. I hope you have a local Crisis Line.
luv, Kath
Posted by Deneb on January 14, 2007, at 17:32:40
In reply to Re: Deep breath » Deneb, posted by Kath on January 14, 2007, at 16:32:09
Thank-you finelinebob
Thank-you Meri-Tuuli
I think you're right. My Mom was trying to motivate me by calling me lazy. I will prove her wrong.Thank-you ClearSkies
Thank-you laima
You're right. Skipping class for a day is not a disaster.Thank-you one woman cine
You really helped me.Thank-you Phillipa
Thank you MidnightBlue
Thank-you Leo for your poem. It made me feel a little better.
Thank-you Jo UK. Your letter idea is a good one.
Thank-you AuntieMel
Thank-you Farkus
Thank-you Llurpsie_Noodle
Thank-you Kath
Before I wrote this it didn't dawn on me how many people care about me. I thank everyone who has thought of me. ((((((((((((((((Everyone)))))))))))))))) I'm so lucky to have so many BabbleFriends. I love you all. I love you more than Dr. Bob. :-)
Deneb*
Posted by Deneb on January 14, 2007, at 17:40:54
In reply to Re: Thank-you everyone, posted by Deneb on January 14, 2007, at 17:32:40
I want to reply to many of you more in depth. Just give me some time.
I love you all.
Deneb*
Posted by ClearSkies on January 14, 2007, at 23:55:09
In reply to Re: Thank-you everyone, posted by Deneb on January 14, 2007, at 17:32:40
((((((((((((((((Everyone)))))))))))))))) I'm so lucky to have so many BabbleFriends. I love you all. I love you more than Dr. Bob. :-)
>
> Deneb*
>Woo-hoo! I'm going to print that last line out, Deneb! :-)
I'm glad that you can see the positive effect that babble can have on us. It really can support us during difficult times.CS
Posted by leo33 on January 15, 2007, at 19:16:10
In reply to Re: Thank-you everyone » Deneb, posted by ClearSkies on January 14, 2007, at 23:55:09
Your Welcome, I am glad that we could help. You still have gratitude in you and that is a good thing. Keep your hope alive!!!!
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