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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 7 to 31 of 31. Go back in thread:
Posted by JenStar on August 6, 2004, at 0:48:25
In reply to journal excerpt **possible trigger**, posted by ghost on August 5, 2004, at 20:56:50
I like the 'box idea.' What are some of the things in your box?
By the way, I agree with you! Life IS short. On the optimistic side, I'd have to add "so make the most of it!" if that doesn't sound too dorky/corny/annoying/Hallmark-cardy/kick-me-in-the-butt-for-being-so-saccarine. But that's what I try to tell myself, even if I feel phony, every time I'm feeling dismal and low.
I don't know about you, but for some reason when I get in a "low" mood it's almost like I ENJOY being low (does that make sense) and I get mad at any suggestion of ways to feel happier. So I try to bounce myself out of it with little corny saying...and sometimes it works. :)
what rant radio piece were you listening to? They ARE awful sometimes. Also funny. People on the radio get so worked up about stuff that seems so silly or insignificant!
About love...I don't know if it's overrated everywhere, but on TV and in the movies, definitely! I think love is overplayed on TV - so is friendship. It's enough to make anyone feel bad sometimes when we watch those sitcoms -people with perfect lives and perfect bodies and perfect lovers, resolving problems perfectly in sanitized little 1/2 hour blocks. Gag! Society floats all these ideas of perfection around, and sometimes it's hard to break away and say, "geez, life just isn't going to be as perfect as they make it look!"
I don't know. I'm rambling, I guess, up late too. But I wanted to connect with you and let you know that someone out there, in the dark night, is thinking of you kindly and wants you to be well.
Feel better.
JenStar
Posted by partlycloudy on August 6, 2004, at 7:17:51
In reply to journal excerpt **possible trigger**, posted by ghost on August 5, 2004, at 20:56:50
((((ghost)))) sorry you were up so late - seems all I can do lately is sleep. Want to trade? Journalling has really helped me. The most effective time for me as been as soon as I wake up - even while I'm still in bed, and just write and write without any thought as to what's coming out. It's like doing a brain dump. Writing when you're not quite awake yet also lets you maintain that connection for a bit with your sleeping self, where (I think) our true feelings hide out. I've written pages and pages of words that, when I look at them later, I can't recall where they came from or what was on my mind. It's very liberating for me. Putting words to paper lets me release some of the poison as I think of it, that depression lets fester inside me. Depression has been such a crippling illness for me. You have done so much this year; it's been a lot for anyone to bear. Try not to be so hard on yourself. Keep those pills in a safe place.
Posted by ghost on August 6, 2004, at 8:20:59
In reply to life is short and love is always overrated. » ghost, posted by octopusprime on August 6, 2004, at 0:32:27
i never expected to find another sisters of mercy fan on pb. it's nice to meet you.
Posted by ghost on August 6, 2004, at 8:25:53
In reply to Re: journal excerpt **possible trigger**, posted by JenStar on August 6, 2004, at 0:48:25
> I like the 'box idea.' What are some of the things in your box?
you know, it's funny. there's no one thing that makes me depressed. i just hate life in general. i hate me. i don't even know why. i'll have to think about what i'm going to put in the box.
> By the way, I agree with you! Life IS short. On the optimistic side, I'd have to add "so make the most of it!" if that doesn't sound too dorky/corny/annoying/Hallmark-cardy/kick-me-in-the-butt-for-being-so-saccarine. But that's what I try to tell myself, even if I feel phony, every time I'm feeling dismal and low.
i wish this worked for me... usually once i'm low, i can't possibly see light, it's all dark.
> I don't know about you, but for some reason when I get in a "low" mood it's almost like I ENJOY being low (does that make sense) and I get mad at any suggestion of ways to feel happier. So I try to bounce myself out of it with little corny saying...and sometimes it works. :)
i'm like this when manic-- i mean, who wouldnt want to think they're the greatest? but when i'm like this... i'd trade it for mania any day.
> what rant radio piece were you listening to? They ARE awful sometimes. Also funny. People on the radio get so worked up about stuff that seems so silly or insignificant!
i was listening to rant radio's industrial station. the first line from my journal was a song lyric.
> About love...I don't know if it's overrated everywhere, but on TV and in the movies, definitely! I think love is overplayed on TV - so is friendship. It's enough to make anyone feel bad sometimes when we watch those sitcoms -people with perfect lives and perfect bodies and perfect lovers, resolving problems perfectly in sanitized little 1/2 hour blocks. Gag! Society floats all these ideas of perfection around, and sometimes it's hard to break away and say, "geez, life just isn't going to be as perfect as they make it look!"
i do agree. but it's even worse in real life when you meet people who are so deliriously happy with each other... even after years of being together. even through bad times. it just makes me think i'm unlovable.
> I don't know. I'm rambling, I guess, up late too. But I wanted to connect with you and let you know that someone out there, in the dark night, is thinking of you kindly and wants you to be well.
thank you... i really appreciate everyone's help.
ghost
Posted by ghost on August 6, 2004, at 8:31:20
In reply to Re: journal excerpt **possible trigger** » ghost, posted by partlycloudy on August 6, 2004, at 7:17:51
journalling helps me too, mostly late at night (when depression really smacks me, after a long day). i can't sleep until i get all my thoughts out of my head so i stop thinking about them. mostly on the premiss that i'll look at them tomorrow and try to deal with them then. (i usually don't but i convince myself otherwise so i can sleep.)
i miss the days when i used to sleep all the time-- at least when i'm asleep i don't have to feel bad all the time.
lately i don't have a hell of a lot to put in my journal. or i write the same thing 50 times. it's the same thoughts and feelings: i hate myself, i want to die. blah blah blah. and it makes me so angry because i'm at this point in my life when i should be so happy-- i have a new job that pays well, i'm thinking of buying a house (uh... *there* is a stress trigger if there ever was one), i'm starting over again. but the stress is just overwhelming i think. plus what i was dealing with already.
"crippling" is a really good word to describe depression. that's it, exactly.
anyhow. thanks for the kind words.. you have no idea how much i appreciate them.
ghost
Posted by karen_kay on August 6, 2004, at 8:40:27
In reply to journal excerpt **possible trigger**, posted by ghost on August 5, 2004, at 20:56:50
tofu dogs and liquor. i'm looking forward to it.
Posted by ghost on August 6, 2004, at 8:43:10
In reply to remember the camping trip dear!, posted by karen_kay on August 6, 2004, at 8:40:27
Posted by octopusprime on August 6, 2004, at 10:56:58
In reply to Re: journal excerpt **possible trigger** » partlycloudy, posted by ghost on August 6, 2004, at 8:31:20
i get depressed when i start over too ... at a new job, in a new apartment, moving to a new place ...
you so poignantly identified guilt as a reason ... the i should be happys, the i got what i wants so why do i still feel this ways, etc.
there's also grief ... sadness over everything that has been lost ... wishing some people could be here to share these moments with you ... reliving conversations that could have gone differently
and uncertainty, lack of self-confidence ... the did i make the right choices ... the what if it doesn't work outs ... the feeling that you're standing on the edge of a proverbial cliff getting ready to jump ...
and lack of sleep makes everything seem so much more frantic ...
((ghost)) i think this too shall pass, if you hang in there. if you can remember times when you have felt better, if you can draw a word picture of them in your journal, if you can do this without feeling meloncholy, but instead as something to look forward to when this storm too shall pass ...
and maybe just one xanax, one to help you sleep, one to give you the rest you so desperately need ...
i feel for you because i have been there and i'm sorry you feel this way
Posted by ghost on August 6, 2004, at 11:14:58
In reply to starting over » ghost, posted by octopusprime on August 6, 2004, at 10:56:58
it's funny... i can identify major changes in my life and my reactions to them... i got married and was miserable, i got divorced and felt better (so that means i must've done the right thing), i started college and was on top of the world (must've done the right thing), started grad school and was miserable (wrong thing), quit, and am still miserable... am i still doing the wrong thing, or am i looking at this all wrong?
it's interesting that you're able to see the big picture in what i'm saying, because i can't do it-- the guilt, grief, etc. stuff i just don't see, i just see how i'm reacting, but not why or whatever. if that makes sense. anyhow. i appreciate you being able to point out the obvious to me. it kind of helps me to sort things out. if what i feel is actually flat-out guilt or grief, well then i can deal with that. but i can't figure out that's what it is because i'm having trouble sorting through my words. (i'm having trouble forming coherent sentences, from the looks of it, too!)
so, thanks.
Posted by ghost on August 6, 2004, at 11:23:23
In reply to journal excerpt **possible trigger**, posted by ghost on August 5, 2004, at 20:56:50
so here's what's in the box, and my comments/observations are in parentheses. maybe if i write it out here, too, it'll hold me accountable for my ideas and thoughts...
1. finding a place to live (i don't know if i should bother looking for houses on my househunting trip or concentrate on finding apartments. i definitely need a 6mo. apt rental before i can get a house)
2. getting money in time for the trip (nothing i can do about this [i booked my flight already and am not sure the money will come in time to pay for my trip and i have nothing in reserve to pay for hotels and cars])
3. starting a new job (you wanted this, a*hole)
4. finding a new life (running away is what you do best)
5. finding a cool coffee shop (call the Impact Group for help with this)
6. finding a good pdoc (my friend has a phone number that will tell you the APA something or other docs in any area, i should call her)
7. getting meds/not running out [i only have a week's worth of meds left] (gonna have to use moving allowance to buy meds, don't go without)
8. should i find a T? (use friend's number again, or do I call the Impact Group?)
9. a support group? (found the Depression and Bipolar Support Alliance for my new area and their meetings are twice a month.)
incidentally, i also made a list of renting vs. buying and it didn't help. i don't know what to do. i don't know if i'm mature enough to handle a house, but my job will pay all the closing costs so it'll be about the same price (per month) as renting, and it'll repair my badly damaged credit. it almost seems stupid not to take advantage of it. but i have to do it within one year. i'm torn.
Posted by octopusprime on August 6, 2004, at 11:31:58
In reply to Re: starting over, posted by ghost on August 6, 2004, at 11:14:58
ghost:
that's really kind of interesting that you strongly identified with the labels of "guilt" and "grief" i used ... that was just a way to relate my own experience to you ... but if you find it helpful to stick a name on a feeling, more power to you
i can't say if you're doing the wrong thing or not. in the wisdom of the tragically hip, a fine canadian band, perhaps you are "looking for a place to happen / making stops along the way"
trying to set up a life by yourself is perhaps the most difficult thing i can imagine (the only thing harder would be doing it when you have kid(s)). i felt miserable trying to do it. but it doesn't mean it's not worth doing, that i did the wrong thing, that you're doing the wrong thing.
there's also a little decision calculus behind it: of all the choices i could have *realistically* made in the last little while to get me to this point, which is the least bad? after a little decision analysis, i find i usually take the least bad choice (or one of the least bad choices, which fuels a whole other bout of indecision ...)
so maybe you just haven't got to the happy/on top of the world part yet. maybe you are just laying the groundwork, setting things up. maybe this time you will fly higher then you've ever flown. who knows.
(i wish i could write this part in tiny text ... sometimes though when i get to the top of the world i tend to fall off. i fly too high and then i make problems. i guess it's a bipolar tendency. bottom out then fly too high and burn the wings ... nine inch nails says "flew too high and burned the wings/lost my faith in everything". "so it goes" says kurt vonnegut. this probably doesn't make any sense either.)
Posted by TexasChic on August 6, 2004, at 11:43:53
In reply to journal excerpt **possible trigger**, posted by ghost on August 5, 2004, at 20:56:50
Hey ghost. I've been pretty self involved lately, so I just now read your post. I'm the same way about big life changes. I know I want them, but all the details won't leave my poor brain alone long enough to enjoy what I've accomplished. It sounds like that's what you're doing. I wish I had some advice to offer, but I'm still looking for a way to handle that myself. The thing is, once you get moved, its all going to fall into place, and you'll realize you worried needlessly about things you couldn't even do anything about yet. Try to take it easy on yourself. This is a good thing. A new start in a new place with a new job – scary as h*ll, but so full of possibilities! Take care of yourself ghost, I'm confident it will all work out.
Posted by ghost on August 6, 2004, at 11:48:00
In reply to applying labels » ghost, posted by octopusprime on August 6, 2004, at 11:31:58
i used to be so gung-ho about never wearing labels... but then i realised it helps when you can identify or label something, because it helps you to relate to it. or me, anyway.
sometimes i fall off the world, too. i know exactly what you mean. when you get too high. i worry about that, too. that's why i can't stop taking meds. i just wish they'd keep me from falling too low, too.
and so it goes.
Posted by ghost on August 6, 2004, at 11:48:45
In reply to Re: journal excerpt **possible trigger** » ghost, posted by TexasChic on August 6, 2004, at 11:43:53
thanks. ((((TexasChic)))) and good luck to you too.
Posted by partlycloudy on August 6, 2004, at 12:18:20
In reply to starting over » ghost, posted by octopusprime on August 6, 2004, at 10:56:58
I don't know if this has any place in your thread, ghost, but I'm working on a new mantra to reinforce the good things at my very core:
"I trust my instinct, my intuition, and my powers of discernment."
When I get side swiped by events in my life, or feel powerless over the direction it's going in, it's usually because I have gone against my gut feelings. I blame myself cruelly and without forgiveness. When I'm depressed I can't see any of the good in my life, just what I think of as failures - and I hold myself fully responsible.
Ghost, I thought of this when I read your Good Things versus Not So Good Things list. Keeping your mental health is a number one priority! Finding a place to live is important - I was a renter for the longest time because I knew I just would not have the energy or ambition to maintain an entire house, and a lawn, and a garden, and what about the snow in winter.... and when we finally did buy something, it was a condo. I feel like I kept to my values so I had greater satisfaction about the decision: became a homeowner (after losing not one but two homes), and didn't have to feel guilty about keeping up appearances because it's included in the condo fees.
I am rambling here.... but I want to say that you should stay true to what feels right for you. Everything is shaded by guilt and depression you feel now, but look for that core of ghost and you won't go wrong...
Posted by TexasChic on August 6, 2004, at 13:39:17
In reply to Re: starting over, posted by partlycloudy on August 6, 2004, at 12:18:20
You're absolutely right PC. I wonder what makes us begin to question our own instincts to begin with. Maybe when I start meditating I will be able to get more in touch with that part of me. But for right now, I usually have to be validated by someone else before I'll believe what I knew all along. Maybe that's just human nature.
Posted by ghost on August 6, 2004, at 13:48:10
In reply to Re: starting over, posted by partlycloudy on August 6, 2004, at 12:18:20
i'm REALLY bad about trusting my instincts. thanks for sharing that... i think that i will write this down and give it a shot, too. or something similar.
AND thanks for the idea about the condo. it was something my mother had suggested and i dismissed it right away-- i don't want to own a chunk of a building, i pretty much told her. plus there are rules to follow. but on the other hand, all of the maintenance outside is taken care of by someone else. (and i sooooo wouldn't mow my lawn, ever.) i think i might entertain the idea myself and see where it goes.
thanks.
*big hugs*
ghost
Posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 6, 2004, at 14:21:05
In reply to what's in the box..., posted by ghost on August 6, 2004, at 11:23:23
Wow, that box is awesome. You did an outstanding job, Ghost. Now, I give you a bigger challenge.
Make a big box on sheet of paper. I want you to put all the things someone would say to themselves when they feel very depressed. Color around that box the color of that feeling.
Now, make a new box. A box on a new sheet of paper. In this box, put all the stmts one tells themselves when they feel not depressed. Color around that box the color of that feeling.
Then, compare the boxes. Do you notice any significant differences?
Posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 6, 2004, at 14:42:47
In reply to what's in the box..., posted by ghost on August 6, 2004, at 11:23:23
Ghost, I can see from what you put in that box why you are feeling they way you are. It is jammed full. Each of those items could of had a box all to themselves to map out a plan. Again, you did an outstanding job. How did it make you feel looking at all that on paper from an observer point of view?
Posted by ghost on August 6, 2004, at 15:27:05
In reply to Re: what's in the box..., posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 6, 2004, at 14:42:47
Shadow,
It's funny you mention that the box is all full... I was thinking when I was doing it, "boy, I shoulda made individual boxes." goes back to not trusting my instincts.
i guess i felt a little more in control, being able to put everything into tiny manageable concerns, i could put the appropriate action with the appropriate concern. thanks for the suggestion.
i'll give the other exercise a shot later, too-- i'll have to dig out some markers or something. or at least think about the colors. (everything i've got is in boxes right now. heh.)
Thanks again,
ghost
Posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 6, 2004, at 17:22:00
In reply to Re: what's in the box... » Shadowplayers721, posted by ghost on August 6, 2004, at 15:27:05
From my stand point, it really looked just too much. It had to be broken down to little boxes too. You really did an outstanding job. It really helped me see how overwhelming all this is too. I can't carry all of what in that box either. It must weigh a ton. But, I can pick up a bunch 10 pound boxes one at a time and of course with brakes -maybe cool aid and some friend to help too.;)
Posted by ghost on August 6, 2004, at 17:27:23
In reply to Re: what's in the box..., posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 6, 2004, at 17:22:00
mmm. koolaid. you might be right. a bunch of tiny boxes are easier to manage than one big one. even if it means more stairs. :)
Posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 6, 2004, at 17:33:59
In reply to Re: what's in the box... » Shadowplayers721, posted by ghost on August 6, 2004, at 17:27:23
Oh, I think I would need a hand truck to manage those stairs. WHEW!!!!:0 Is there an elevator in the building? I don't want to work any harder than I have too. (<Preparing gallons of Kool Aide>)
Posted by ghost on August 6, 2004, at 17:35:41
In reply to Re: what's in the box..., posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 6, 2004, at 17:33:59
im glad i'm not the only lazy one!
Posted by Shadowplayers721 on August 6, 2004, at 18:24:14
In reply to Re: what's in the box... » Shadowplayers721, posted by ghost on August 6, 2004, at 17:35:41
You and I can sit and watch. We can stay busy by drinking my cold Kool Aide;0
This is the end of the thread.
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