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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Miller on July 12, 2003, at 21:22:57
In reply to to suicide survivors..., posted by yesac on July 12, 2003, at 15:06:50
I tried two times in a very short time period. Obviously both were non-successful.
After the first attempt, I was not at all glad that I had failed. The second attempt came a month later. At first I was glad. Then I had some ery rocky times. I was up and down again.
I too, have read where people who survived find a will to live that they never had previous. My doctor once called it "ego-cide". Basically, when a person attempts suicide the attempt kills off the part of the ego which has been creating the harnful and destructive thoughts. I personally don't believe that ego-cide would be permanant.
I am holding on to the belief that if I can finally be honest with myself and my emotions, I will lose the desire to give up.
Thanks for asking. It is a great question.
-Miller
Posted by noa on July 13, 2003, at 10:36:41
In reply to to suicide survivors..., posted by yesac on July 12, 2003, at 15:06:50
I have never gone through with an attempt, but have been quite close several times. I am glad I didn't go through with it. I never would have believed it possible to want to live and to be able to live without constantly wanting to die, but it eventually did happen. I'm glad to be here.
Posted by yesac on July 13, 2003, at 15:47:26
In reply to Re: to suicide survivors..., posted by Miller on July 12, 2003, at 21:22:57
> I too, have read where people who survived find a will to live that they never had previous. My doctor once called it "ego-cide". Basically, when a person attempts suicide the attempt kills off the part of the ego which has been creating the harnful and destructive thoughts. I personally don't believe that ego-cide would be permanant.Hmmm... that's interesting. Yeah, I read this one book about the whole "process" of a suicide attempt - the lead-up, the attempt, the time in the hospital, the recovery. And all of the people in the book were glad to have lived. But of course, I'm sure that they were specifically selected because of that, and there are plenty more out there who aren't so glad. But all of these people in the book had been able to embrace life more and really make something out of it after their attempts. It took a while, but eventually they really seemed to enjoy life and do great things.
>
> Thanks for asking. It is a great question.You're welcome. And thanks.
Posted by yesac on July 13, 2003, at 15:51:38
In reply to Re: to suicide survivors..., posted by noa on July 13, 2003, at 10:36:41
> I have never gone through with an attempt, but have been quite close several times. I am glad I didn't go through with it. I never would have believed it possible to want to live and to be able to live without constantly wanting to die, but it eventually did happen. I'm glad to be here.
Really? I just can't shake the fear that I'll never be happy. And that I'll really WANT to live. I guess I have that hope that eventually I'll get on top of this, and I imagine things falling into place in the years ahead.... but that's all just a hope. I've felt this way for so long already.... why should I think it could change?
Posted by gabbix2 on July 13, 2003, at 15:55:29
In reply to Re: to suicide survivors..., posted by noa on July 13, 2003, at 10:36:41
Thats so encouraging Noa
If you wouldn't mind,
I mean it, only if you wouldn't mind, would you give me an idea how long it took, or an age range
for when you started feeling better.
I know everyone's different some hope would be nice though.
Posted by yesac on July 13, 2003, at 16:00:03
In reply to Re: to suicide survivors..., posted by noa on July 13, 2003, at 10:36:41
I wonder if actually surviving an attempt is sort of the way to get some real help? I just feel like I'm not getting enough. I mean, not that that in itself would be a "good" reason to make an attempt. Maybe hospitalization without an attempt would work too. Or not. I mean, you're in and out in a few days, and then what? It's back to the same. A few days can't fix anything really. I don't know.
I think it's ironic because even though I have this desire to kill myself (stronger at some times than others) - the idea of being killed like in an accident or something bothers me. It's like, I want to decide. I've sometimes thought... imagine if I got some disease and only had a few months to live. How horrible to think that I wouldn't get the chance to do all of these things in life that I want to do! It would be so sad to face that. But yet, I feel at times willing to take my own life? To take that future away from myself? It's very strange to me.
Posted by Miller on July 13, 2003, at 16:23:08
In reply to Re: to suicide survivors... » Miller, posted by yesac on July 13, 2003, at 15:47:26
I also read a book about suicide survivors. It wasn't as "happily ever after" as what you read. They interviewed people that had some pretty violent attempts. One lady doused herself with gasoline and set herself on fire. She was concious through the whole thing. She talked about the horrible pain and disfigurement she then had to go through. Another man jumped from a bridge that nobody had ever live through before. Eerybody who jumped died. Except him. He was in a wheelchair the rest of his life.
DDefinately don;t make an attempt just for help. The right people, once you find them, will know your pain without having to see an attempt. I truly wanted to die when I tried. Now my husband can't cope with the fact that I made the attempt. He took it all personally. Who could blame him? If the tables were turned, I think I would also feel devastated.
If you feel you aren't getting what you need, keep looking. There are tons of therapists out there. They are all so different and so diverse, you can have everything you need. You just have to look.
A friend of mine from this board was saying that her therapist has learned how to be more guiding than harsh with her. My therapist knows I need a "sting" of reality to get myself going. She could never take to my therapist and I would never take to hers. Yet, to hear us talk, they are the only two therapists worth having :)
Yesac, don't make an attempt. And, a couple of days in a hospital trained for these illnesses can do wonders. Trust me. I would be worm food right now if I hadn't spent a few days in the hospital and if my therapist didn't adapt to my needs.
-Miller
Posted by gabbix2 on July 13, 2003, at 17:03:13
In reply to I also wonder..., posted by yesac on July 13, 2003, at 16:00:03
I know where I live I got no more help as a suicide attempt survivor than I would have as a voluntary patient. As it is I just got placed where I couldn't have anything sharp, "stabilized" and sent home again, with no social supports in place, feeling demoralized and then put on 'med rations' It was nice meeting the other patients though.
I really hate med rations Its where you have to go to the pharmacy every day to pick up your medication cause they don't want you to have too much. Honestly its almost aversion therapy in itself.
As for it being ironic t contemplating suicide while being frightened by the thought of dying accident, I don't think its really ironic.
I think Its about control and pain. Choosing how you die and when you die allows you to manage the variables An accident brings up fear of pain and the unknown, and both of those are intense feelings
Posted by noa on July 14, 2003, at 0:56:23
In reply to Re: to suicide survivors... » noa, posted by gabbix2 on July 13, 2003, at 15:55:29
Well, that hospitalization was 19 years ago, when I was in my 20's. It took a year or two after that to really feel in the clear.
But my depression did come back with a vengeance in my thirties, after a few ok years, during which I only had mild depression sometimes. When it came back, it did not respond well to meds, and I also didn't respond well to higher doses of meds (because of SEs), so the depression became treatment resistent. From about 33 to 40, my depression was often quite awful. I was never hospitalized but came close at a couple of points.
When my thyroid disorder was finally diagnosed and treated, I started responding better to the AD meds and improved steadily for a couple of years. I don't remember when exactly I felt in the clear again, but it was probably when I was 40, in the year after the thyroid problem was addressed aggressively.
While I was getting better, I became very anxious about having the depression pounce on me when I least expected it. This was something I worked on very hard in therapy.
I still struggle with depression, but I bounce back much quicker now and haven't been suicidal for a long time.
Posted by giget on July 14, 2003, at 9:32:19
In reply to Re: to suicide survivors... » gabbix2, posted by noa on July 14, 2003, at 0:56:23
I am not happy I survived. It was a thought out decision in my life and was supposta be an end. I have not found a new look to life or a feeling that sucide is wrong. I still belive it is the choice of an individual.
I have made 2 attempts and wish I would have not made it through them. My life is alot better now, then during the breakdown, and I seem to have a normal life, but I still do not see any benifit to me being here.
I did not attempt to get people to notice me, or to get help. But to DIE. Some people really do mean it when they do sucide. No matter what anyone says in this life I will always feel that way.
I am not saying that I do not do things now that are not fun and I am glad that I did. I am just saying that my life was supposta end on that day. I do not regret the attempt, just the failure. A person has only so long on Earth, and some of us have out lived the life.
I don't see life now as.. well if I would have died I would not have to go through pain, or happiness, or to help someone.... It is just my time to go. It is not something I get worked up about, but this is how I believe....
Most people will tell you differently but I made the attempt to succed, not to fall short. I am not lucky to be here and I just have to be here.
Posted by gabbix2 on July 14, 2003, at 9:33:22
In reply to Re: to suicide survivors... » gabbix2, posted by noa on July 14, 2003, at 0:56:23
Posted by yesac on July 14, 2003, at 10:29:27
In reply to Re: to suicide survivors..., posted by giget on July 14, 2003, at 9:32:19
But... you are still here. Why is that if you really feel that your life is supposed to be over and you really don't want to go through the pain of it all? Do you think that you will try again? And you said that your life is a lot better now, so do you think that maybe it could even get better?
Just wondering. I'm not trying to be patronizing or anything!
Posted by giget on July 14, 2003, at 10:55:07
In reply to Re: to suicide survivors... » giget, posted by yesac on July 14, 2003, at 10:29:27
I am still here yes. I don't see it as not going through the pain. Life is full of happiness and pain, but I am not saying I should not be here because I don't want to deal with the pain.
I don't know why I am still here. I am just going with the flow of how everything turned out. There must be something I am supposta go through before I leave. What it is I do not know, have I already accomplished it now, I don't know.
Will I make more attempts? I might, it depends on weather I feel my job is done here or not. But this time I will make sure I will not be a survivor.
To alot of people this may be a strange concept of life, but this is the way I feel. I may live for another 40 years and be so happy and have all the love in the world... But if I would have died that day, I would not be missing that... My life may be pleasure or pain, either way it would not change my feelings.
I look back at my life and look at the good things and bad that have occured since then. The good times were wonderful, the bad were just that bad. I am glad I got to experience them, but I do not need them to have a full life. I was, and still are, in my mind finished with this specific life here.
> But... you are still here. Why is that if you really feel that your life is supposed to be over and you really don't want to go through the pain of it all? Do you think that you will try again? And you said that your life is a lot better now, so do you think that maybe it could even get better?
>
> Just wondering. I'm not trying to be patronizing or anything!
Posted by judy1 on July 14, 2003, at 12:28:56
In reply to to suicide survivors..., posted by yesac on July 12, 2003, at 15:06:50
Thank you for the excellent question. I had 2 serious attempts (the last 3 years ago), and one that landed me in intensive care for several days. Afterwards I felt like a failure and very angry at those who rescued me. Much later (and still to this day), I feel extremely guilty for putting my loved ones through such a selfish act. This is the emotion that prevents me from trying again, despite some pretty bad suicidal ideation at times. Personally hospitals did not help- only because I have the typical insurance where they keep you for about a week. It really was out-patient 'day hospital' that seemed to make a difference, the daily group and individual sessions that structured my day. My insurance didn't seem to mind that- it was $600/day versus $1200. If increased sessions with your therapist don't help, maybe you can consider that? Do you have a contract with your therapist? take care, judy
Posted by Penny on July 14, 2003, at 12:35:34
In reply to Re: to suicide survivors... » yesac, posted by judy1 on July 14, 2003, at 12:28:56
Funny, I was in an intensive outpatient program through a hospital in Charlotte last year this time, and my insurance apparently would have been more willing to pay for hospitalization! But the IOP program WAS very good and very helpful, but I don't know if there's anything around here, where yesac and I both live, unfortunately. How long were you in your program? I was in mine for a month, but was unemployed part of the time, so I was able to work it into my schedule, but I wouldn't be able to do that now, even if there was such a program.
P
Posted by yesac on July 14, 2003, at 12:49:03
In reply to Re: to suicide survivors... » yesac, posted by judy1 on July 14, 2003, at 12:28:56
> I feel extremely guilty for putting my loved ones through such a selfish act. This is the emotion that prevents me from trying again, despite some pretty bad suicidal ideation at times.
I would say that the guilt over hurting my family so much is probably the main reason I have never attempted. Also, believe it or not, I think that my "agreements" with therapists have actually made me really think twice at times, because I really don't like to go back on my word.
>It really was out-patient 'day hospital' that seemed to make a difference, the daily group and individual sessions that structured my day.
I've given some thought to that type of thing, but like Penny said, I haven't had success in finding something around here. Plus, there is the issue of my job. I wish that they had evening and/or weekend intensive programs. It's like with these daytime things, they assume that someone needing that must not be capable of working. It's too disruptive to my life. I shouldn't have to give up my life in order to do that. Don't you think that if maintaining "normalcy" in one's life is possible, they should allow for that?
Posted by judy1 on July 14, 2003, at 12:52:47
In reply to Re: to suicide survivors... » judy1, posted by Penny on July 14, 2003, at 12:35:34
Hi Penny,
I also was in it for about a month then transitioned into seeing my therapist 2 or 3 times a week. The last time I tried I stopped working so scheduling wasn't a problem (even though there were people there who did work). Because I made an attempt I was 'ordered' to go from 9 to 3, but there were people who just came a couple of hours. I'm really sorry there isn't a program like that where you live, I guess the next best thing would be increased therapy visits- mine would probably suggest daily and my shrink has spent 2 hours at a time with me when I'm having a difficult time. It was during outpatient when spouses (or other family) came that I really understood what agony I had put my husband through (I'll never forget that). My (then) one child was too young to understand, but I lost my father to suicide and I feel a great deal of anger towards him. I'm sorry to ramble. take care of yourself, judy
Posted by yesac on July 14, 2003, at 13:03:44
In reply to Re: to suicide survivors... » Penny, posted by judy1 on July 14, 2003, at 12:52:47
Oh, how I wish I could have more therapy visits. I have at times gone twice a week (in college when it was free!). But now it would just be too expensive. I just don't feel like I can be shelling out all that money. My copayments are $30, so it would really add up if I went two or three or more times a week.
Posted by Penny on July 14, 2003, at 13:53:22
In reply to Re: to suicide survivors... » Penny, posted by judy1 on July 14, 2003, at 12:52:47
Yes, my grandfather committed suicide two years ago and I still harbor a lot of anger toward him and the events surrounding his death. At the time it made me think, "I would never do this to my family," and it's my grandmother and my dogs that keep me from going there. At the same time, when I'm in my worst moments, the logic is gone and the pain is such that it outweighs any reason I might have had.
P
Posted by giget on July 14, 2003, at 14:00:33
In reply to Re: to suicide survivors... » judy1, posted by Penny on July 14, 2003, at 13:53:22
I am sorry to hear this about your grandfather. If you ever think of sucide just think of you grandmother!
> Yes, my grandfather committed suicide two years ago and I still harbor a lot of anger toward him and the events surrounding his death. At the time it made me think, "I would never do this to my family," and it's my grandmother and my dogs that keep me from going there. At the same time, when I'm in my worst moments, the logic is gone and the pain is such that it outweighs any reason I might have had.
>
> P
Posted by gabbix2 on July 14, 2003, at 14:08:01
In reply to Re: to suicide survivors..., posted by giget on July 14, 2003, at 14:00:33
I lost a friend to suicide, a roomate, I found her. Though I miss her, I've never been angry at her, any more than I would be if she'd died of any other disease. Sometimes I think "Why aren't you here for me to talk to?"
But the fact that she's gone through taking her own life doesn't enter into it. I don't think of it this consciously but I know that suicide is a side effect of depression, and I think it just makes things so horrible how could I get mad at them? It would be different if I didn't have depression myself though I'm sure.
Posted by giget on July 14, 2003, at 14:24:11
In reply to Re: to suicide survivors..., posted by gabbix2 on July 14, 2003, at 14:08:01
I am sorry that anyone has to go through lossing someone that way.
Just think for what ever reason they did that, they are not in pain anymore, they are at peace. Dieing is only for a period of time, before they become a new person.
Posted by gabbix2 on July 14, 2003, at 15:04:16
In reply to Re: to suicide survivors..., posted by giget on July 14, 2003, at 14:24:11
Thank you,
But when I leave this place I DON'T WANNA EVER COME BACK NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!! ; )
Posted by giget on July 14, 2003, at 15:07:14
In reply to Re: to suicide survivors... » giget, posted by gabbix2 on July 14, 2003, at 15:04:16
You may not have a choice! But when you come back things will be different, because of what you have learned from this life.
> Thank you,
>
>
>
> But when I leave this place I DON'T WANNA EVER COME BACK NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!! ; )
>
Posted by judy1 on July 14, 2003, at 15:45:52
In reply to Re: to suicide survivors... » judy1, posted by yesac on July 14, 2003, at 12:49:03
I do believe that contracts work- at least for some people. Like you, I hate going back on my word. My shrink who dropped me after my first attempt (there were a bunch of things going on there) just fell apart. He was the one who called the police because of a missed appt. (I never miss appointments w/o calling) and I think took it very personally. I imagine all shrinks feel that way, that they have failed you in some way. Like I said to Penny, some of the participants in the day program did work and only came 2 hours a day. You're right though, most people who have attempted suicide do not work until/ or if the depression lifts. Does your job have short term disability? This is exactly what it is designed for. When I worked my shrink would write notes to my supervisor getting me time off for a month at a time. I understand that $30/ visit can be a great deal of money but if you consider it's your life at stake it really isn't. I've taken money from credit cards when I needed help and I count it as a success that I'm still around to pay the minimum payments:-). I know you feel really bad but you are functional which makes me think that for the short term extra therapy visits would be really helpful. I hope everything works out for you. take care, judy
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