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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 5 to 29 of 30. Go back in thread:
Posted by Kristi on June 21, 2001, at 0:49:09
In reply to Need help with insomnia. Any new ideas?, posted by Glenn Fagelson on June 20, 2001, at 22:55:31
Hi Glenn.....I agree.... as stupid as it sounds... don't go to bed expecting too! Make yourself believe your bedtime is 2.... if you fall asleep before.. all the better. Have you tried the ol' reading? Or better yet... put on a boring channel and make yourself concentrate on EVERY word. Sound silly and easy.. but I've tried EVERTHING.... it's worked. Good luck!!!!
Kristi
> I have really been feeling pretty
> good lately, but I am still plagued
> with insomnia. If I can fall asleep
> before 2AM in the morning, then I am
> doing good. I do everything a person
> is supposed to do with insomnia,
> relaxation tapes, meditation, reading,
> herbal and mineral supplements, etc...
>
> I have always been a night owl, but this
> is ridiculous. Any insights would be
> well-appreciated.
>
> Glenn
Posted by Glenn Fagelson on June 21, 2001, at 0:55:38
In reply to Re: Need help with insomnia. Any new ideas?, posted by sar on June 21, 2001, at 0:44:00
> dear Glenn,
>
> I'm a fellow insomniac. What do you think of the Taoist theory, "Don't try"? Meaning, don't concentrate on making yourself tired or convincing yourself to sleep, just wear yrself the f*ck out. I think that's not the best way to fall asleep, but back in the day I used to smoke (pot) myself silly. Good for the short-term, I believe.
>
> Before you try drugs tho, I'd recommend:
>
> --steaming hot bath
> --trashy easy-to-read novel
> --sitting in a jacuzzi
> --yoga
> --talking with a good friend on the phone before bed
>
> I don't want to be redundant, i know that this has probably all been covered in O Magazine and shit, but from one depressive to another I gots to tell ya what's saved me from the lowest-lows are pot and vicodin. i don't think anyone should become dependent on this shite. I just also think that it doesn't hurt to have any on hand...don't wanna be controversial, but...
>
> sarHi Sar,
Thanks for responding. I have Vicodin,
but oddly enough it makes me wide feel
wide awake. I would like to try some pot
for depression and sleep; I just do not
where I can get the stuff; I live in San
Diego.
Glenn
Posted by kazoo on June 21, 2001, at 2:00:32
In reply to Re: Need help with insomnia. Any new ideas?, posted by sar on June 21, 2001, at 0:44:00
> --trashy easy-to-read novel
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Wrong type of book.
Recommended reading for instant zonk-out: "Pilgrim's Progress" ... guaranteed to put a dinosaur to asleep.
"War and Peace" is another stoner, so to speak.
Anything by Marcel Proust, yawnsville.
One half a teaspoon of refined sugar right from the sugar bowl. That's what I use.
Sodium Secobarbital is a nice touch, at times.
(a light-weight) kazoo
Posted by PuraVida on June 21, 2001, at 2:26:28
In reply to Re:...insomnia...Light's out with books and barbs » sar, posted by kazoo on June 21, 2001, at 2:00:32
Glenn,
One day I'll call -
The past few weeks I have been exercising more - and it has helped with my sleep. I too have hated how late I stay up at night, how late I sleep in, and how many hours a night I sleep.
I've been doing about an hour of cardio a day, and, even though I still stay up late, I'm waking up earlier and not having the urge to sleep in. Hopefully I'll start getting up earlier and earlier, and going to bed earlier, also.
Liz
Posted by Glenn Fagelson on June 21, 2001, at 3:26:31
In reply to Re:...insomnia...Light's out with books and barbs, posted by PuraVida on June 21, 2001, at 2:26:28
> Glenn,
>
> One day I'll call -
>
> The past few weeks I have been exercising more - and it has helped with my sleep. I too have hated how late I stay up at night, how late I sleep in, and how many hours a night I sleep.
>
> I've been doing about an hour of cardio a day, and, even though I still stay up late, I'm waking up earlier and not having the urge to sleep in. Hopefully I'll start getting up earlier and earlier, and going to bed earlier, also.
>
> LizThank you Willow, Kristi, Sar, Liz and
Kazoo for your imput. I am writing to
you all at 1:25AM in the morning. I
will try the boring books and TV programs.If any of you can think of
something else, please let me
know.
Thanks again, Glenn
Posted by Willow on June 21, 2001, at 9:01:05
In reply to Re:...insomnia...Light's out with books and barbs, posted by Glenn Fagelson on June 21, 2001, at 3:26:31
Seriously, I find an hour can pass real quickly when playing a game or just surfing. Turn your pc off say 9:30. Go for a good walk around 7 or 8. No caffeine or sugar laced products after lunch. If you get the munchies try a bowl of porridge or a sandwich around 10. And then try to fold laundry, etc.
If you find yourself thinking too much, when you go to bed imagine a keen fantasy. And each night keep building on it, don't think of anything else. It takes some concentration at first, but later you'll find you fall asleep just starting to think about it.
Skip the drugs. And be careful with the books, you may end up with a good one that keeps you up all night. :0
Willow
Posted by Kristi on June 21, 2001, at 11:27:13
In reply to Stay away from the pc ..., posted by Willow on June 21, 2001, at 9:01:05
Glenn,
To reiterate some of the above points.....
PC surfing is good....
and excersise is great too. Especially if you keep at it. Little by little... but you will definately feel the difference. Hope you got some sleep last night. :-) Take care,
Kristi
> Seriously, I find an hour can pass real quickly when playing a game or just surfing. Turn your pc off say 9:30. Go for a good walk around 7 or 8. No caffeine or sugar laced products after lunch. If you get the munchies try a bowl of porridge or a sandwich around 10. And then try to fold laundry, etc.
>
> If you find yourself thinking too much, when you go to bed imagine a keen fantasy. And each night keep building on it, don't think of anything else. It takes some concentration at first, but later you'll find you fall asleep just starting to think about it.
>
> Skip the drugs. And be careful with the books, you may end up with a good one that keeps you up all night. :0
>
> Willow
Posted by Kristi on June 21, 2001, at 11:27:59
In reply to Stay away from the pc ..., posted by Willow on June 21, 2001, at 9:01:05
Sorry.... I meant no pc surfing!
> Seriously, I find an hour can pass real quickly when playing a game or just surfing. Turn your pc off say 9:30. Go for a good walk around 7 or 8. No caffeine or sugar laced products after lunch. If you get the munchies try a bowl of porridge or a sandwich around 10. And then try to fold laundry, etc.
>
> If you find yourself thinking too much, when you go to bed imagine a keen fantasy. And each night keep building on it, don't think of anything else. It takes some concentration at first, but later you'll find you fall asleep just starting to think about it.
>
> Skip the drugs. And be careful with the books, you may end up with a good one that keeps you up all night. :0
>
> Willow
Posted by PuraVida on June 21, 2001, at 11:46:57
In reply to Re: Stay away from the pc ..., posted by Kristi on June 21, 2001, at 11:27:59
Gotta agree - one reason I do get stuck staying up late is either web surfing (or on here!) and/or watching stupid TV. What has helped in the past is having a sort of bedtime ritual that includes no TV or PCs, but maybe a cup of camomile tea, and reading a few pages of something like The Four Agreements or Simple Abundance. Maybe candles, even, to create a soft, safe atmosphere for myself. Create a little haven for yourself at that time and give yourself permission to let all of your thoughts go and try just to let go of it all. And then, or course, exercise - maybe a walk after dinner at sunset, or harder cardio each morning. Good luck -
Sorry.... I meant no pc surfing!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Seriously, I find an hour can pass real quickly when playing a game or just surfing. Turn your pc off say 9:30. Go for a good walk around 7 or 8. No caffeine or sugar laced products after lunch. If you get the munchies try a bowl of porridge or a sandwich around 10. And then try to fold laundry, etc.
> >
> > If you find yourself thinking too much, when you go to bed imagine a keen fantasy. And each night keep building on it, don't think of anything else. It takes some concentration at first, but later you'll find you fall asleep just starting to think about it.
> >
> > Skip the drugs. And be careful with the books, you may end up with a good one that keeps you up all night. :0
> >
> > Willow
Posted by super on June 21, 2001, at 15:16:52
In reply to Re: Stay away from the pc ..., posted by PuraVida on June 21, 2001, at 11:46:57
Don't count on pot. It can make you wired too.
> Gotta agree - one reason I do get stuck staying up late is either web surfing (or on here!) and/or watching stupid TV. What has helped in the past is having a sort of bedtime ritual that includes no TV or PCs, but maybe a cup of camomile tea, and reading a few pages of something like The Four Agreements or Simple Abundance. Maybe candles, even, to create a soft, safe atmosphere for myself. Create a little haven for yourself at that time and give yourself permission to let all of your thoughts go and try just to let go of it all. And then, or course, exercise - maybe a walk after dinner at sunset, or harder cardio each morning. Good luck -
>
>
>
>
> Sorry.... I meant no pc surfing!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Seriously, I find an hour can pass real quickly when playing a game or just surfing. Turn your pc off say 9:30. Go for a good walk around 7 or 8. No caffeine or sugar laced products after lunch. If you get the munchies try a bowl of porridge or a sandwich around 10. And then try to fold laundry, etc.
> > >
> > > If you find yourself thinking too much, when you go to bed imagine a keen fantasy. And each night keep building on it, don't think of anything else. It takes some concentration at first, but later you'll find you fall asleep just starting to think about it.
> > >
> > > Skip the drugs. And be careful with the books, you may end up with a good one that keeps you up all night. :0
> > >
> > > Willow
Posted by Glenn Fagelson on June 21, 2001, at 15:48:12
In reply to Re: Stay away from the pc ..., posted by PuraVida on June 21, 2001, at 11:46:57
> Gotta agree - one reason I do get stuck staying up late is either web surfing (or on here!) and/or watching stupid TV. What has helped in the past is having a sort of bedtime ritual that includes no TV or PCs, but maybe a cup of camomile tea, and reading a few pages of something like The Four Agreements or Simple Abundance. Maybe candles, even, to create a soft, safe atmosphere for myself. Create a little haven for yourself at that time and give yourself permission to let all of your thoughts go and try just to let go of it all. And then, or course, exercise - maybe a walk after dinner at sunset, or harder cardio each morning. Good luck -
>
>
>
>
> Sorry.... I meant no pc surfing!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Seriously, I find an hour can pass real quickly when playing a game or just surfing. Turn your pc off say 9:30. Go for a good walk around 7 or 8. No caffeine or sugar laced products after lunch. If you get the munchies try a bowl of porridge or a sandwich around 10. And then try to fold laundry, etc.
> > >
> > > If you find yourself thinking too much, when you go to bed imagine a keen fantasy. And each night keep building on it, don't think of anything else. It takes some concentration at first, but later you'll find you fall asleep just starting to think about it.
> > >
> > > Skip the drugs. And be careful with the books, you may end up with a good one that keeps you up all night. :0
> > >
> > > WillowThank you Willow, Kristi and Liz,
I will put your imput into practice!
I tried to read "War and Peace" by
Tolstoy because someone here recommended
I do that, but I found the book to be
very good. Maybe, I will try an
engineering book; I find engineering
to be quite boring. (I hope I didn't
offend anybody with that last statement).If anyone comes up with any other ideas,
please let me know.Thanks again, Glenn
Posted by JennyR on June 21, 2001, at 22:30:21
In reply to Need help with insomnia. Any new ideas?, posted by Glenn Fagelson on June 20, 2001, at 22:55:31
Insomnia is a biggie with me. There are some insomnia web sites. They have suggestions. But they tell you if it's more than a couple of weeks it may be something else (like depression????). But their "sleep hygiene" protocols aren't bad, e.g. use your bed only for sleeping and sex, exercise early in the day, not at night, etc, etc.
Medicationwise, when I was on Serzone I slept well. It eventually pooped out. While on it I was given Ambien for the occasional times when things were on my mind and I needed something else to sleep. After the serzone, I went on Wellbutrin, which can be stimulating. So then I was told to use the ambien each night. The problem was that I could only get about 4 hours on it then I was up. Then I was given Klonipin instead of the Ambien, which I take at night, and I sleep pretty decently. It's not as good as it was the first 6 months, but it's a decent combination.
Posted by kazoo on June 21, 2001, at 23:36:12
In reply to Stay away from the pc ..., posted by Willow on June 21, 2001, at 9:01:05
> And be careful with the books, you may end up with a good one that keeps you up all night. :0
> Willow^^^^^^^^^^
Yes, and Willow's favorite is "Lady Chatterly's Lover" by D.L Lawrence, complete with pen and ink graphics by Aubrey Beardsley. :-0Hello, Willow, my sweet ...
(a fond) kazoo
Posted by Glenn Fagelson on June 22, 2001, at 1:25:33
In reply to Re: Need help with insomnia. Any new ideas?, posted by JennyR on June 21, 2001, at 22:30:21
> Insomnia is a biggie with me. There are some insomnia web sites. They have suggestions. But they tell you if it's more than a couple of weeks it may be something else (like depression????). But their "sleep hygiene" protocols aren't bad, e.g. use your bed only for sleeping and sex, exercise early in the day, not at night, etc, etc.
> Medicationwise, when I was on Serzone I slept well. It eventually pooped out. While on it I was given Ambien for the occasional times when things were on my mind and I needed something else to sleep. After the serzone, I went on Wellbutrin, which can be stimulating. So then I was told to use the ambien each night. The problem was that I could only get about 4 hours on it then I was up. Then I was given Klonipin instead of the Ambien, which I take at night, and I sleep pretty decently. It's not as good as it was the first 6 months, but it's a decent combination.Thank you Jenny for your response. .5mg
to 1 mg of Xanax helps me to fall asleep,
but Xanax is so addicting; I cannot
take it every night. My doctor put me on
Zyprexa for sleep, but it doesn't do me
much good. What time do you usually
fall asleep at night? I'm just curious.Klonopin kind of depresses me.
I'll check out the websites for insomnia.
Again, I appreciate your feedback to me
Thanks, Glenn
Posted by kazoo on June 22, 2001, at 2:03:58
In reply to Re: Need help with insomnia. Any new ideas?, posted by Glenn Fagelson on June 22, 2001, at 1:25:33
Glenn: you're not going to get any relief with these light-weight drugs you are given.
Try the old remedies: DALMANE, VALIUM, RESTORIL, CARBITRAL, NOCTEC (chloral hydrate). I would recommend PLACIDYL, but Abbott (stupidly) discontinued the drug.
And forget about habituation, for cryin' out loud! This has become such an obsession with everybody lately, and there's really no reason for it. If something works, then use it (judiciously), and you'll be alright.
Sleep is more important than obsessing over it.
(a yawning) kazoo
Posted by mist on June 22, 2001, at 2:32:15
In reply to Need help with insomnia. Any new ideas?, posted by Glenn Fagelson on June 20, 2001, at 22:55:31
Glenn, when I can't sleep it's usually for one or more of the following reasons:
1. I've had too much caffeine and/or had it too late in the day.
2. I haven't exercised enough that day. Even walking 40 minutes or so makes a difference.
3. I've had an alcoholic beverage or even part of one which usually means I'll wake up in the middle of the night and find it hard to get back to sleep for hours if at all.
4. I'm extremely anxious about something.
I usually don't have a problem getting enough sleep but when I do it's for one of those reasons. And usually it's the one about not getting enough exercise. That always makes the most difference.
I would like to go to bed earlier than I do, too. But I know all I have to do in order to do that is consistently wake up earlier, because I don't really have insomnia, my body is just adjusted to a different sleep schedule at the moment. I get the same number of hours either way.
Good luck.
Posted by Glenn Fagelson on June 22, 2001, at 23:15:58
In reply to Re: Need help with insomnia. Any new ideas? » Glenn Fagelson, posted by kazoo on June 22, 2001, at 2:03:58
> Glenn: you're not going to get any relief with these light-weight drugs you are given.
>
> Try the old remedies: DALMANE, VALIUM, RESTORIL, CARBITRAL, NOCTEC (chloral hydrate). I would recommend PLACIDYL, but Abbott (stupidly) discontinued the drug.
>
> And forget about habituation, for cryin' out loud! This has become such an obsession with everybody lately, and there's really no reason for it. If something works, then use it (judiciously), and you'll be alright.
>
> Sleep is more important than obsessing over it.
>
> (a yawning) kazooThanks kazoo!
What is Carbitral,by the way? My
doctor will not prescribe any
Noctec for me; he says it is too
addicting.Glenn
Posted by Glenn Fagelson on June 22, 2001, at 23:21:20
In reply to What makes a difference for me., posted by mist on June 22, 2001, at 2:32:15
> Glenn, when I can't sleep it's usually for one or more of the following reasons:
>
> 1. I've had too much caffeine and/or had it too late in the day.
>
> 2. I haven't exercised enough that day. Even walking 40 minutes or so makes a difference.
>
> 3. I've had an alcoholic beverage or even part of one which usually means I'll wake up in the middle of the night and find it hard to get back to sleep for hours if at all.
>
> 4. I'm extremely anxious about something.
>
> I usually don't have a problem getting enough sleep but when I do it's for one of those reasons. And usually it's the one about not getting enough exercise. That always makes the most difference.
>
> I would like to go to bed earlier than I do, too. But I know all I have to do in order to do that is consistently wake up earlier, because I don't really have insomnia, my body is just adjusted to a different sleep schedule at the moment. I get the same number of hours either way.
>
> Good luck.Thank you Mist for responding to my post!
I honestly think that my normal sleep
cycle is from 2AM in the morning to 10
or 11 AM in the morning. Unfortunately,
90% of the population goes by a different
schedule. If you think of anything else,
please let me know.
Thanks again, Glenn
Posted by kazoo on June 24, 2001, at 1:20:01
In reply to Re: Need help with insomnia. Any new ideas?, posted by Glenn Fagelson on June 22, 2001, at 23:15:58
> Thanks kazoo!
> What is Carbitral,by the way? My
> doctor will not prescribe any
> Noctec for me; he says it is too
> addicting.
>
> Glenn^^^^^^^^^
Glenn, your doctor is correct, NOCTEC is addicting, but let's be honest about this: all "sleepers" are. Addiction and habituation (one and the same, maybe not?) are user specific. By this I mean to say, it depends on the person using these agents; i.e., their personality, character, state-of-mind, environment, social interactions, job, family, etc., etc. etc. There's a fine line between "use" and "abuse" and, again, this is dependent on the individual.
I also want you, as well as other readers, to know that I am not a doctor, nor do I pretend to be one. I draw my knowledge about these chemicals from personal experience, which is the best I can do. Also keep in mind that I would never advocate the use of any drug which I thought would put the user at risk.
Re. Carbitral: this is just another one of those old time remedies, but the generic name is phenobarbital. It's a barbiturate, a Control II substance used sparingly and usually in hospital environments. If I were to use a barbiturate, it would probably be secobarbital (SECONAL) because it puts you to sleep fast; however, it's out of your system within three hours.
I can't remember: are you having problems falling asleep or staying asleep, or both?
Did you ask your doctor about DALMANE or RESTORIL? These were two popular hypnotics which were heavily used back in the 70s and 80s (ancient history). If necessary, I'll take either a DALMANE or RESTORIL to knock me out. (That's right, Glenn! You don't have a monopoly on insomnia! :-0 )
Someone once told me, "If you can't fall asleep, then make the best out of being awake..." which I have.
It might interest you to know that Keith Richards of The Rolling Stones confessed that he had stayed awake recently for nine days. The thrill of it all ...
kazoo
Posted by Glenn Fagelson on June 24, 2001, at 3:41:12
In reply to Re: Need help with insomnia. Any new ideas? » Glenn Fagelson, posted by kazoo on June 24, 2001, at 1:20:01
> > Thanks kazoo!
> > What is Carbitral,by the way? My
> > doctor will not prescribe any
> > Noctec for me; he says it is too
> > addicting.
> >
> > Glenn
>
> ^^^^^^^^^
>
> Glenn, your doctor is correct, NOCTEC is addicting, but let's be honest about this: all "sleepers" are. Addiction and habituation (one and the same, maybe not?) are user specific. By this I mean to say, it depends on the person using these agents; i.e., their personality, character, state-of-mind, environment, social interactions, job, family, etc., etc. etc. There's a fine line between "use" and "abuse" and, again, this is dependent on the individual.
>
> I also want you, as well as other readers, to know that I am not a doctor, nor do I pretend to be one. I draw my knowledge about these chemicals from personal experience, which is the best I can do. Also keep in mind that I would never advocate the use of any drug which I thought would put the user at risk.
>
> Re. Carbitral: this is just another one of those old time remedies, but the generic name is phenobarbital. It's a barbiturate, a Control II substance used sparingly and usually in hospital environments. If I were to use a barbiturate, it would probably be secobarbital (SECONAL) because it puts you to sleep fast; however, it's out of your system within three hours.
>
> I can't remember: are you having problems falling asleep or staying asleep, or both?
>
> Did you ask your doctor about DALMANE or RESTORIL? These were two popular hypnotics which were heavily used back in the 70s and 80s (ancient history). If necessary, I'll take either a DALMANE or RESTORIL to knock me out. (That's right, Glenn! You don't have a monopoly on insomnia! :-0 )
>
> Someone once told me, "If you can't fall asleep, then make the best out of being awake..." which I have.
>
> It might interest you to know that Keith Richards of The Rolling Stones confessed that he had stayed awake recently for nine days. The thrill of it all ...
>
> kazooDear Kazoo,
I thank you very much for your imput;
I have always felt that addiction is
largely dependent upon the user taking
it. I take either a Restoril or 1 mg
of Xanax for insomnia, along with 10 mg
of Zyprexa. I seriously, seriously
doubt if my psychiatrist would presribe
for me any phenobarbital or secobarbital.
Have you ever tried barbituates forsleep?
And if so, did it cause you to be more
depressed?Let me know,
Glenn
Posted by Wendy B. on June 26, 2001, at 11:03:37
In reply to Re: What makes a difference for me., posted by Glenn Fagelson on June 22, 2001, at 23:21:20
> Thank you Mist for responding to my post!
> I honestly think that my normal sleep
> cycle is from 2AM in the morning to 10
> or 11 AM in the morning. Unfortunately,
> 90% of the population goes by a different
> schedule. If you think of anything else,
> please let me know.
> Thanks again, Glenn
Glenn:
Just my 2 cents here, I think insomnia is
one of the most troubling aspects of depression.
I used to have the same schedule as you,
did my best work between the hours of 10 pm and 2 am.
Now that I am on Wellbutrin during the day,
and Neurontin too, including 2 X 600 mg before
bed, I sleep like a log, during that time
when the 90% of the population sleeps. Now
I feel like the rest of the world, and I kind
of don't like it. I felt more productive as
the old me. Does that seem weird?
Could your dr try you on some neurontin?
I hope you can resolve your sleep issues. I
just wonder if it becomes an obsession - to sleep
when everybody else seems to - when in fact, you
could just go to sleep when your body wants to.
Do you have a job that demands that you be there
"early"? I hated that when I was employed by
an ivy-league institution (which shall remain
unnamed!), and the chair of
my dept ordered me to be in by 9:00. I physically
could not do it at the time. Although I would be
able to now on the current med regimen...
In any case, best wishes, sorry this is bothering
you so much...Wendy
Posted by PuraVida on June 26, 2001, at 12:20:54
In reply to Re: What makes a difference for me., posted by Wendy B. on June 26, 2001, at 11:03:37
Wendy,
Although I don't have insomnia, I have had the same problem with being somewhat of a night owl, sometimes very productive at night and not being able to be productive (or even get up)during the day. Somehow, I sometimes think, nighttime is safer - because everyone else is asleep its a time when you can be uninterrupted by requests, demands, all of the things that overwhelm me. Almost of a feeling that it is a time when I can get off the treadmill and no one will notice...?
Is this close at all to what you feel?
> Now that I am on Wellbutrin during the day,
> and Neurontin too, including 2 X 600 mg before
> bed, I sleep like a log, during that time
> when the 90% of the population sleeps. Now
> I feel like the rest of the world, and I kind
> of don't like it. I felt more productive as
> the old me. Does that seem weird?
Posted by Wendy B. on June 27, 2001, at 16:26:19
In reply to Re: What makes a difference for me., posted by PuraVida on June 26, 2001, at 12:20:54
> Wendy,
>
> Although I don't have insomnia, I have had the same problem with being somewhat of a night owl, sometimes very productive at night and not being able to be productive (or even get up)during the day. Somehow, I sometimes think, nighttime is safer - because everyone else is asleep its a time when you can be uninterrupted by requests, demands, all of the things that overwhelm me. Almost of a feeling that it is a time when I can get off the treadmill and no one will notice...?
>
> Is this close at all to what you feel?
Absolutely - it's a time of peace and quiet. My bipolar-depression problems have, in the past, kept me awake and most alive between 10 pm and 2-3 am. I was always doing something, laundry, paperwork, sewing projects. I felt productive. Now that I'm on this particular med regimen, I drop off to sleep (sometimes, I admit, in front of the TV) at about 11:00 or 11:30.
The other part about staying up when others are in La-la Land is that I feel like I'm the sentinel, the guard who watches over the fort while the other soldiers get their sleep. My landlord and his wife live downstairs, so I have to tiptoe, and I play music at the lowest possible levels after 11:00. But he knows I'm creeping around, trying to be quiet; I think he has the sentinel in him too.
It happens that I'm a single mother, and I think this has something to do with being wakeful, as well. Like it's my responsibility to be the watchful one, in order to 'properly' take care of my daughter and keep her from any harm that might come in the night, after dark. But also, it's the only time of the day when I'm not caring for her in one way or another, and that's more to your point, nobody's demanding anything of me...
Lately I wonder who's the sentinel now that I'm not.Nice to talk to you,
Wendy
> > Now that I am on Wellbutrin during the day,
> > and Neurontin too, including 2 X 600 mg before
> > bed, I sleep like a log, during that time
> > when the 90% of the population sleeps. Now
> > I feel like the rest of the world, and I kind
> > of don't like it. I felt more productive as
> > the old me. Does that seem weird?
Posted by Glenn Fagelson on June 28, 2001, at 0:04:34
In reply to Re: What makes a difference for me., posted by Wendy B. on June 26, 2001, at 11:03:37
>
> > Thank you Mist for responding to my post!
> > I honestly think that my normal sleep
> > cycle is from 2AM in the morning to 10
> > or 11 AM in the morning. Unfortunately,
> > 90% of the population goes by a different
> > schedule. If you think of anything else,
> > please let me know.
> > Thanks again, Glenn
>
>
> Glenn:
> Just my 2 cents here, I think insomnia is
> one of the most troubling aspects of depression.
> I used to have the same schedule as you,
> did my best work between the hours of 10 pm and 2 am.
> Now that I am on Wellbutrin during the day,
> and Neurontin too, including 2 X 600 mg before
> bed, I sleep like a log, during that time
> when the 90% of the population sleeps. Now
> I feel like the rest of the world, and I kind
> of don't like it. I felt more productive as
> the old me. Does that seem weird?
> Could your dr try you on some neurontin?
> I hope you can resolve your sleep issues. I
> just wonder if it becomes an obsession - to sleep
> when everybody else seems to - when in fact, you
> could just go to sleep when your body wants to.
> Do you have a job that demands that you be there
> "early"? I hated that when I was employed by
> an ivy-league institution (which shall remain
> unnamed!), and the chair of
> my dept ordered me to be in by 9:00. I physically
> could not do it at the time. Although I would be
> able to now on the current med regimen...
> In any case, best wishes, sorry this is bothering
> you so much...
>
> Wendy
Hi Wendy,
Thank you so much for your input. It's always
nice to know someone who has (or has had)
circadian rhythms like mine. Sometimes, I
feel so alone with my insomnia. It
is problematic in the sense that I would like
to do more substitute teaching; however, in
a few months I plan on starting my own practice
in hypnotherapy; then if I wanted to, I
could schedule my appointments from noon to 8
in the evening. But there is something to be
said about falling asleep early in the evening,
for I have heard that the greatest type of
healing, restorative sleep occurs between 10pm
and midnight; maybe the saying, "Early to bed,
early to rise makes us healthy, wealthy and wise."
has some validity.
I have Neurontin at home right now; sometimes
I will use it on an as needed basis. Maybe,
I will try some tonight!No, I do not think it wierd that you feel more
productive as a night owl. My brain hums and
purrs best between the hours of 6pm to 11 pm.
I have always been this way, even as a child.
When I was in high school, I had to take the
bus to the school; this meant getting up at
6am in the morning. My father would have to
get a wash cloth, immerse it in ice cold water
and rub it over my face in order to wake me up.
So that should give you a feel for what I struggle
with as far as sleep is concerned.Thank you again for your post,
Glenn
Posted by Glenn Fagelson on June 28, 2001, at 0:11:36
In reply to Re: What makes a difference for me., posted by PuraVida on June 26, 2001, at 12:20:54
> Wendy,
>
> Although I don't have insomnia, I have had the same problem with being somewhat of a night owl, sometimes very productive at night and not being able to be productive (or even get up)during the day. Somehow, I sometimes think, nighttime is safer - because everyone else is asleep its a time when you can be uninterrupted by requests, demands, all of the things that overwhelm me. Almost of a feeling that it is a time when I can get off the treadmill and no one will notice...?
>
> Is this close at all to what you feel?Yes Liz, you have hit the nail right on
the head; the world is much less over-
whelming at nightime! Some of the most
creative people have done their greatest
works in the middle of the night; Thomas
Edison and Winston Churchill, to name a
few.... They took naps during the day
and early evening.Glenn
>
> > Now that I am on Wellbutrin during the day,
> > and Neurontin too, including 2 X 600 mg before
> > bed, I sleep like a log, during that time
> > when the 90% of the population sleeps. Now
> > I feel like the rest of the world, and I kind
> > of don't like it. I felt more productive as
> > the old me. Does that seem weird?
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