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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 12 to 36 of 36. Go back in thread:
Posted by BayLeaf on June 14, 2009, at 10:43:42
In reply to Re: I fired my t, posted by alexandra_k on June 14, 2009, at 1:47:09
holy moley alex, you've been through toooo much. that T needs a kick in the butt. I'll gather a posse to TP his house, K?
So sorry you are aching in several ways.
Hugs, Bay
Posted by twinleaf on June 14, 2009, at 11:04:47
In reply to I fired my t, posted by alexandra_k on June 13, 2009, at 20:11:19
The way you describe him, he sounds well-intentioned, but not sufficiently focussed on his patients-not just you I'm sure-to make sure that he can give each one as near as possible what he/she needs.He may not even have thought about that very much. What happened does hurt an awful lot, but it is not about you at all; it has to do entirely with his own limitations as a therapist.
It sounds as though he has some real limitations- you wouldn't want to have to keep bumping up against those years into the future, especially if you go to med school and have a variable schedule of your own. There really ARE committed therapists out there who will keep you in mind and really care about what is best for you. For example, the one i have will try very hard to give me a make-up appointment the week before or after he goes to a conference. One time, he scheduled me in at 8 in the evening! The "keeping in mind" is at the top of the list of what he wants to do for his patients, and it has had a very strong and positive effect on me..
Right now, you have a chance to interview a number of therapists. You know much more about what you need now than you did a few years ago, and, because you have gotten so much better, you are a desirable and promising client. I hope you will interview lots of them and choose very carefully!
Posted by Deneb on June 14, 2009, at 17:14:38
In reply to I fired my t, posted by alexandra_k on June 13, 2009, at 20:11:19
Sorry to hear that Alex. It sounds like it was a hard decision to make. He really let you down.
I think he really cares though. Like another poster said, T's spread themselves too thin. It sounds like he cares more than my pdoc.
He broke his promise though and that must really hurt.
I hope you take care of yourself right now. We care about you too. I think you can find another T.
Posted by emmanuel98 on June 14, 2009, at 18:24:56
In reply to I fired my t, posted by alexandra_k on June 13, 2009, at 20:11:19
I don't understand. Did he not have any time for you or was it only that he can't see you twice a week?
Posted by alexandra_k on June 14, 2009, at 19:12:11
In reply to Re: I fired my t, posted by emmanuel98 on June 14, 2009, at 18:24:56
nothing until the end of july (unless people cancel last minute and i can get in) and then only once a week.
part of the trouble is that i'm in a small city (not really a city). so not many people. didn't take me long to scan through the 'psychotherapy' and 'psychiatry' sections of the phone book. there simply aren't many. on the upside my p-doc doesn't occur in either place so i guess that means that there are more out there.
i've sent out two email inquiries. see what happens, i guess. feeling very fragile. need to work. i hate it how i work best when i'm happy. i wish i was like all these people who could just focus their hurt and upset into their work. think how productive i'd be. need to at least read these two articles today. then ready to write tomorrow. major deadline coming up and i really can't afford to blow it. i so want to just curl up... who knows how many weeks it will take for various people to get back to me in unhelpful ways. sigh.
Posted by backseatdriver on June 15, 2009, at 8:41:32
In reply to Re: I fired my t » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on June 14, 2009, at 0:09:50
You did the right thing. The guy sounds hopeless. Not you, though. Good luck with your search! Therapists are a dime a dozen, and the good ones even show up for work most of the time.
BSD
Posted by alexandra_k on June 16, 2009, at 11:20:51
In reply to Re: I fired my t, posted by alexandra_k on June 14, 2009, at 19:12:11
he's done the referral. so i guess that is it then. consensus: he doesn't have time for me. and there it is.
of course it is still an open question whether anyone else has time for me. i'm not optimistic. i know that there is a significant shortage of health professionals here. i know that the majority of people who seek health professionals here have a much larger disposable income than me.
i might well end up with nothing.
and there it is.
Posted by Deneb on June 16, 2009, at 13:08:33
In reply to Re: I fired my t, posted by alexandra_k on June 16, 2009, at 11:20:51
((((((((Alex))))))))) That must be hard. I'm going to cross my fingers for you and hope you find a great T to work with.
Posted by Phillipa on June 16, 2009, at 20:02:43
In reply to Re: I fired my t, posted by alexandra_k on June 16, 2009, at 11:20:51
Alex I'm really sorry. Maybe come back here? Love Phillipa
Posted by alexandra_k on June 17, 2009, at 22:21:09
In reply to Re: I fired my t, posted by alexandra_k on June 16, 2009, at 11:20:51
Its hard to know if I'm ruining things by pushing him away. Putting him in the position where there isn't anything that he can do but refer me on. Or whether I'm basically facing up to the fact that he simply doesn't have adequate time to offer me. Whether we are best to face up to that fact and I'm better to try and find someone else. I can't tell whether I'm f*ck*ng this up unnecessarily or whether it is time for us to face the facts. I can't tell.
I guess the ball is in his court. I can't tell. I've told him how I feel. Now it is up to him.
Posted by alexandra_k on June 17, 2009, at 22:23:57
In reply to Re: I fired my t, posted by alexandra_k on June 17, 2009, at 22:21:09
He said in one of his emails that he had an 8am spot for tomorrow. I haven't said I'd take it. I don't know if he's saved it for me. He said it would be good if I could come in to see him at least once more. I said it would only hurt more. He hasn't reminded me about the spot. I wonder if I should just turn up. Would it be too magical to just turn up? If he didn't save it for me / someone else is there / he isn't there then I guess he really doesn't think / care about me. If he is there then... Well it doesn't mean that he cares. Necessary but not sufficient. I don't know. I'm heartbroken over this. Really. Disintegrating since I've come back. Horrible empty feeling.
Posted by Dinah on June 17, 2009, at 23:09:50
In reply to Re: I fired my t, posted by alexandra_k on June 17, 2009, at 22:23:57
Well, you know I trend to keeping relationships that are important.
I'd go in and see him and see if you could work something out. offering you that session seems like something a caring therapist does. If he didn't keep that one, maybe he could offer you another.
Good therapists don't just come along that often. I really like the relationship you had with him. Isn't it worth doing whatever you can to reestablish it, even if he screwed up and let you down?
Posted by alexandra_k on June 18, 2009, at 10:16:42
In reply to Re: I fired my t » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on June 17, 2009, at 23:09:50
he emailed me. something about 'id be happy to see you in the future if you change your mind' which is of course an indirect way of his saying 'i'm not planning on your coming in tomorrow i didn't save you a place'. its over. he doesn't mean it. he says 'our relationship is worth preserving' but he won't actually work to preserve it. 'if you decide to come and see me again' 'do you want to see me again' 'i didn't realize that you wanted to come and see me again'... i thought it was my paranoia but turns out that all that... was indeed his trying to dissuade me from wanting to see him again.
and another one bites the dust.
what is it about me such that therapists get sick of me so? 'i wish you well' (get the f*ck away from me). what is it about me?
i know what it is. i don't idealize enough. i'm not grateful enough. i'm not happy enough in their presence. i can't be. thats the nature of my sickness. i can't be. I CAN"T. I"M DOING THE BEST I CAN AND ITS NOT GOOD ENOUGH> AND I HATE THE WORLD SO THAT I HAVE MOMENTS OF PLEASURE MOMENTS OF HOPE THAT PREVENT ME KILLING MYSELF WHEN IT WOULD BE SO MUCH KINDER FOR ME TO JUST DIE: I HATE MYSELF SO
Posted by alexandra_k on June 18, 2009, at 10:19:53
In reply to Re: I fired my t » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on June 17, 2009, at 23:09:50
i want to send him parts. maybe the tip of my little finger.
maybe my little toe.
Posted by alexandra_k on June 18, 2009, at 10:26:43
In reply to Re: I fired my t, posted by alexandra_k on June 18, 2009, at 10:19:53
i'm supposed to be sicker than most. thats what justifies his seeing me in his private practice.
i'm supposed to be less sick than most. thats what justifies his not seeing me while not needing to arrange for alternatives, assess risk, and so on.i'm supposed to f*ck*ng idealize him and be good is what.
i f*ck*ng hate him. i'm supposed to what? look after him is what. look after his needs. f*ck him. i f*ck*ng hate him. f*ck*ng arsehole. so much kinder to help me die. f*ck*ng *rs*.
Posted by alexandra_k on June 18, 2009, at 10:29:32
In reply to Re: I fired my t, posted by alexandra_k on June 18, 2009, at 10:26:43
i think the majority of psychiatrists are so obsessed with 'smart'
because they don't know what 'smart' is
because they spend much of their life wondering whether they are 'smart'
because they weren't 'smart' enough to match to whatever it is that they really wanted to match to
so they spend their life obsessed with having 'smart' clients who think they are 'smart'
who idealize them
to help them feel better
for failing to match
f*ck*ng *rs*
Posted by Dinah on June 18, 2009, at 10:49:15
In reply to Re: I fired my t, posted by alexandra_k on June 18, 2009, at 10:16:42
Alex, I understand your anger. Those phrases sound so cold and formal.
I'm not sure I understand the message he sent you though. You had told him you didn't want to continue seeing him, and effectively fired him. He suggested you come in one last time and proposed a time this morning. You didn't respond until this morning?
I don't know the context, but the exact words you quoted sound as if he is willing to see you again, but that he thought you had fired him and didn't wish to see him again? Am I missing part of the story?
These things are so abominably hard to do in phone messages or emails. I nearly always end up upset with my therapist when he emails me because he does use formal wording and things like "I wish you well". In conversation it's different, and we can work on misperceptions (on both sides) as they happen.
Is he willing to see you to discuss these things in person?
Posted by alexandra_k on June 18, 2009, at 13:51:26
In reply to Re: I fired my t, posted by Dinah on June 18, 2009, at 10:49:15
hard to know really
hard to know whether i'm pushing you away.
leaving you with no option but to terminate.
hard to know whether i'm pushing you away unnecessarily.
hard to know whether its time that we both faced up to the fact of the matter.
that you don't really have adequate time for me.
that given that there really is no option but to terminate.
the most humane thing to do longer term anyway.what do you think?
of course from your perspective it is entirely reasonable to see someone once a week.
of course from your perspective it is entirely reasonable to take over a month to get someone scheduled in.
the issue is whether that is adequate for me given my needs.
i know i'm `too demanding' that isn't the issue.
the issue is whether my `making do' with that
is good for me. is not good for me.
i can't tell.
maybe i just need to get over the tantrums.
or maybe the tantrums are telling us that it isn't enough.
of course i'm not at all optimistic that there is something better suited out there.
but how much will i disintegrate with 'making do'
how much will i disintegrate with 'nothing'
and here we are again the catch 22
and of course what will happen is i'll repress the rage
'be good' again
'be good' and repress the hurt
live in my box
at least i get taken out sometimes
what is wrong with me that i can't just be grateful for that
that there was someone willing to take me out at all?
i don't know.
so i guess really it is up to you
because i've done all i can do and now... i just don't know anymore.
_________________
and i'm sure i was interesting enough for a time but you are kind of over me now at any rate. to many demands in the world. i understand. i don't know why i had to be born at all.
_________________
and of course it was the thought that nothing ever would be enough that did it
that is not what you are supposed to express
gratitude, idealization, pleasure
then curl up in the box in a surreptitious way
a quiet way
be quiet with your distress
shut the f*ck up
go the f*ck away
i understand
i understand How Things Are
and of course it is my fault really
because i know all this
and what the f*ck was i doing?
and what the f*ck did i expect?
and there it is really
and there it is
others do so much better at being good
and of course they deserve more than me
and there it is.
________________
________________Hi XXX,
I am so sorry things have come to this point. I do hope you find what you are looking for in a therapist. You have a lot of potential - you are obviously very bright, and you are also deeply feeling. I have confidence in you that you can do medicine if you choose to pursue it (probably most other subjects/professions as well). I wish you much success and happiness in the future. If you change your mind or feel differently in future and would like to see me you would be most welcome.
_______________
What do you think?
> If you change your mind or feel differently in future and would like to see me you would be most welcome.
What the f*ck does that mean?
Given that I just said 'I can't tell what to do right now' and all.
???
Sounds like 'don't come in tomorrow' to me
Sounds... Generic. Sounds like a bag of b*llsh*t.
Posted by Dinah on June 18, 2009, at 17:04:00
In reply to Re: I fired my t, posted by alexandra_k on June 18, 2009, at 13:51:26
:((((
Not the nicest thing to receive.
What would happen if you wrote back "I think there has been a misunderstanding. I was saying I'd like to discuss this. I *would* like to see you in person to discuss this. Do you have any time available?
Believe it or not, something similar happened to me just this last session. I was in hysterics about it. He misunderstood my saying I wanted to talk about whether we could open up some new lines of therapy to keep twice a week therapy as fitting my needs to mean that I wanted to cut back to once a week. He regressed before my eyes to the therapist I had ten years ago, and by his own admission, treated me the way he'd treated me ten years ago. I responded very badly, got more and more hysterical, until I broke into those convulsive heaving sobs (after storming out of the room). I still can't figure out what happened, given what I know about myself and him. But it *hurt* to have him cooly say "Fine. We'll cut down to once a week. Fine. You don't need to come in this week. Fine. You can call me if you wish to see me."
Away from the immediacy of the hurt, I realize that he didn't understand, and perhaps I didn't understand and it snowballed.
You're already feeling so hurt. Would there be much to lose in asking him outright if you can see him again?
Posted by Phillipa on June 18, 2009, at 20:00:06
In reply to Re: I fired my t, posted by alexandra_k on June 18, 2009, at 13:51:26
Alex I still say come back here. Love Phillipa
Posted by alexandra_k on June 19, 2009, at 0:07:05
In reply to Re: I fired my t » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on June 18, 2009, at 17:04:00
> You're already feeling so hurt. Would there be much to lose in asking him outright if you can see him again?
I don't know. I guess not. I kind of think that there would be a lot to lose. Right now I have some kind of hope that there just has been this really horrible misunderstanding. It might be that he really doesn't want to see me again or that if I go in to see him he will make it clear that he really doesn't want to work with me anymore. I don't know how I would handle / cope with that. I really don't think I would cope well at all. But if I don't try then I guess I am just left with nothing. I'm not sure how I'm handling / coping with that. Not very well. Feeling very... Borderline. Thinking of presenting myself to a hospital for assessment. What would I have to lose? If they turned me away... I'm starting to feel cornered again, like I have no options but to do something... Extreme.
I emailed him. Numb now. Just need to wait. I think I've irrevokably f*ck*d things up truth be told. I'm hurting so bad / so numb... I don't know what to do.
The best I could say was 'Dinah thinks I don't have much to lose in asking if I can see you again. She is usually right about such things'. Not quite true :-( But... That is the most direct I can be. Sometimes... Words fail me. I just can't seem to say whatever 'magical words' might be required :-( I just can't say 'I want to see you again'. I just can't. That was all I wanted and... He wasn't there.
I'm not optimistic. Only time he had guaranteed for me this month was the time this morning - and was made clear enough last night that that time wasn't available to me anymore.
If I do see him... I'm not sure I'll be able to do much but sit there all numb with tears of frustration and anger rolling down my cheek. Inconsolible. I think... It is expression of that that started this mess in the first place (why would you want to see someone who is inconsolible?????)
Posted by alexandra_k on June 19, 2009, at 0:11:06
In reply to Re: I fired my t, posted by alexandra_k on June 19, 2009, at 0:07:05
There are some things that I just can't ask for because I don't think I can live with the answer being 'no'. So when the answer is likely to be 'no' then I just can't bring myself to ask. Not quite sure why but my not getting it isn't so bad as 'no' and then my not getting it. The 'no' is just... devistating. I don't know why.
Posted by Dinah on June 19, 2009, at 0:35:47
In reply to Re: I fired my t, posted by alexandra_k on June 19, 2009, at 0:11:06
I understand that.
One of the major issues my therapist has hammered home for fourteen years is my asking directly for what I want or need. He says that if I ask, the answer may be no, but if I don't ask, the answer is definitely no, because no one is able to read my mind.
He also says that there is no shame in asking for anything ever, even if it isn't something that he can grant. He says that if he says no, it doesn't have anything to do with my asking for something "wrong". It just means that he is unable to give what I am asking for.
I usually believe him. But not always. And even when I ask him very directly, I often build in an out for him so that his no won't hurt as bad.
Posted by Dinah on June 19, 2009, at 7:18:16
In reply to Re: I fired my t, posted by alexandra_k on June 19, 2009, at 0:07:05
That sounds like an awful lot to lose. Believe me, I understand how important therapists can be, but frankly your therapist is not worth doing something extreme over. Neither is mine. I don't mean it as an insult to him. But you are just too valuable and special yourself.
I could be wrong, but nothing you've said about your therapist when you were first seeing him, or while you were away, or now, leads me to believe that he doesn't wish to see you because of how inconsolable you might be, or because he finds you unappealing as a client. It sounds more as if he is a bit rigid. If he's at a clinic, that is perhaps not his fault. If he's in private practice, I admit I do not understand why he didn't hold himself accountable for the errors in scheduling that took up a time slot he had promised to you and intended for you. My therapist would have met me at some other time in his own time, because he would have seen that this was his error. It wouldn't have been a boundary bending, so much as a correction of something he didn't mean to happen.
I remember how much you liked this therapist, and I hope that the two of you find a way to get to know each other again in person. Being away for so long makes it hard to connect again for anyone. And major issues are best decided face to face after seeing each other for a while. Misunderstandings are only too likely in email or even on the phone.
But if you discover he isn't open to doing this, I hope you realize it likely isn't anything about you that is the reason. It's more likely a rigidity in a possibly overworked therapist who feels the need to hold firm on things like office hours.
You discovered while you were here that you have the ability to find another therapist in difficult situations. And that there are other therapists you can get along with.
In the meantime, is it possible to get a prescription for something that can help you at this time? I've asked my therapist that if he ever terminates, could he have men ready to take me to the hospital and until I've been on high dose risperdal for a few days. I am serious about that.
Posted by antigua3 on June 19, 2009, at 13:07:12
In reply to Re: I fired my t » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on June 19, 2009, at 7:18:16
I agree with Dinah. You've worked way too hard to let all your progress just crumble away. You did find another therapist who you liked a great deal while you were in the U.S., so please have hope that you can find another one. You have the strength, and again, this is not about your worth as a person at all; it's about his failure to keep a commitment, and while that hurts so much, it's not your fault. It really, really isn't.
antigua
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