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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 46. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by orchid on April 19, 2006, at 13:11:37
How would you feel, if your husband was a T and have all this women who come and tell him their issues and problems and they crave about him all the time?
Also how would you feel, if your husband went to a female T, and tell her all his issues and troubles and innermost issues? And develops a huge transference towards her?
I guess a little of a judgement day for me - I don't think I would have taken either very well. Not well at all.
And I think I owe my T and my T's wife an apology for everything i felt towards him. He belongs to her, and I had no right to demand any friendship from him. And I think I owe my husband even a bigger apology for getting myself into that mess.
What say ya all? I know it is a hard issue for most of us, but I would like an honest answer if possible.
Posted by milly on April 19, 2006, at 13:50:47
In reply to Pls read: hubby goes to female T/T is your hubby, posted by orchid on April 19, 2006, at 13:11:37
> How would you feel, if your husband was a T and have all this women who come and tell him their issues and problems and they crave about him all the time?
**I guess it would be very threatening, I have a little experience of being in that position as hubby is a minister and so end up helping many in crisis who then think the sun shines out of his *ss. (which it doesn't by the way!) It can be very hard for him to be 'special' to so many and to hear them say how wonderful he is when all you want to do is scream 'he isn't so wonderful when he leaves his dirty underwear on the bathroom floor!
>
> Also how would you feel, if your husband went to a female T, and tell her all his issues and troubles and innermost issues? And develops a huge transference towards her?** Jealous as hell, which is exactly what my hubby has been through with me and although it hasn't diminished my feelings for my T it has taught me to be sensitive to hubby
>
> I guess a little of a judgement day for me - I don't think I would have taken either very well. Not well at all.
>
> And I think I owe my T and my T's wife an apology for everything i felt towards him. He belongs to her, and I had no right to demand any friendship from him. And I think I owe my husband even a bigger apology for getting myself into that mess.** Yep me too
>
> What say ya all? I know it is a hard issue for most of us, but I would like an honest answer if possible.
Posted by LadyBug on April 19, 2006, at 15:22:19
In reply to Pls read: hubby goes to female T/T is your hubby, posted by orchid on April 19, 2006, at 13:11:37
That's a tough one. In one sense, I understand the therapy relationship and how it goes. On the other side of things, I'd be worried about someone falling in love with my spouse if he were a T. If he were to see a T and develop feelings for him or her, I'd have a hard time with it.
On the other hand, I'm finding myself using my theraputic relationship keeping me side-tracked from really looking at how bad my marriage relationship is. We are going to talk about it tomorrow at my session. I can't use my therapist in ways that help me feel like I can hang on to a failed marriage and I've been doing that for months now.
LadyBug
Posted by daisym on April 19, 2006, at 16:32:43
In reply to Pls read: hubby goes to female T/T is your hubby, posted by orchid on April 19, 2006, at 13:11:37
I think this is an inflammatory thread, with potential to make a lot of people feel bad and I know better than respond.
But..
This issue was brought up before by someone who said she was the significant other of a therapist. I took her posts into therapy with me, because essentially she said we should all be ashamed of ourselves and get a life. My therapist said she had no right to speak for others and that most therapists, and their spouses, know this is part of the package. They talk about it and they have ways to deal with their feelings. He emphasized that it is the therapist's job to take care of him or herself and the client does not need to apologize for legitimate feelings that grow. Depending on the type of therapy, these feelings are expected and show growth, trust and commitment to the therapeutic process.
All that said, we already know some therapists don't do well with these feelings, so it makes sense that their spouses wouldn't either. I would like to point out that certainly there are multitudes of careers that this kind of thing can happen -- look at teachers, just to choose one. Who didn't develop a crush on at least one college professor?
I might struggle with my attachment. And I might feel bad and guilty and a bunch of other things. But no one gets to approve or disapprove of my feelings anymore. Except me.
Posted by All Done on April 19, 2006, at 17:26:12
In reply to Pls read: hubby goes to female T/T is your hubby, posted by orchid on April 19, 2006, at 13:11:37
> How would you feel, if your husband was a T and have all this women who come and tell him their issues and problems and they crave about him all the time?
I would have to accept that it's part of his job before I made the decision to marry him. It wouldn't be fair to me, him, or our marriage if I lived in a constant state of worry and jealousy.
> Also how would you feel, if your husband went to a female T, and tell her all his issues and troubles and innermost issues? And develops a huge transference towards her?
I would have no problem with it. I would want to make sure he was with a T who's therapeutic orientation allowed for transference and I might ask a few questions to see how she handled herself, but overall, I think it would actually help him to understand what I'm struggling with and the process I'm going through. At this point, I might actually welcome it.
> I guess a little of a judgement day for me - I don't think I would have taken either very well. Not well at all.
>
> And I think I owe my T and my T's wife an apology for everything i felt towards him. He belongs to her, and I had no right to demand any friendship from him. And I think I owe my husband even a bigger apology for getting myself into that mess.I don't believe anyone "belongs" to anyone. And I don't think I'm demanding anything from my T. For 50 minutes each session, my T chooses to share with me his mind, his emotions and feelings, and I believe sometimes, his heart. I've thanked him over and over again for that because while I am paying him, it's a very personal service he's providing and I'm glad he chose the profession he did. I don't believe I owe him an apology for working with the process the best way I know how and I don't think he believes I owe him an apology. In fact, he's thanked me for allowing him to do the work he loves and wants to do. True, he would be able to do therapy without me or his other clients who have similar experiences, but it wouldn't be psychodynamic therapy, which is what he chooses to practice, probably because he enjoys it and it's interesting to him.
> What say ya all? I know it is a hard issue for most of us, but I would like an honest answer if possible.
It's already hard enough to be as open as we can be in therapy, but that's how therapy works best. The feelings come naturally because of the way it's set up. I hope others aren't discouraged from sharing their feelings with their therapists. My therapy is about me, not my T or his wife, family, friends, or whoever.
Posted by All Done on April 19, 2006, at 17:26:59
In reply to Re: Pls read: hubby goes to female T/T is your hubby, posted by daisym on April 19, 2006, at 16:32:43
Posted by orchid on April 19, 2006, at 18:19:35
In reply to Re: Pls read: hubby goes to female T/T is your hubby, posted by daisym on April 19, 2006, at 16:32:43
> I think this is an inflammatory thread, with potential to make a lot of people feel bad and I know better than respond.
>IT was not meant to be an inflammatory post. It suddenly occurred to me how it would have been to me if my husband had been a T or if my husband had gone to a woman T and I raised the point and my feelings around it.
It was not meant to judge or hurt anyone. It was a sincere and honest post and a query about others in the same way.
Posted by orchid on April 19, 2006, at 18:21:16
In reply to Pls read: hubby goes to female T/T is your hubby, posted by orchid on April 19, 2006, at 13:11:37
Since this post seems to be of provocative nature, I better add this trigger.
However, I reiterate that the post was not meant to be inflammatory or to hurt anyone's feelings. For one, I was and still am to a good extent, in the same boat.
Posted by orchid on April 19, 2006, at 18:30:38
In reply to Re: Pls read: hubby goes to female T/T is your hubby » orchid, posted by All Done on April 19, 2006, at 17:26:12
Now that I read your post intellectualy I agree with you.
They chose this profession, and should be able to stick with the ups and downs of it, and I am doing only my part and it is expected of me.
But still emotionally if my husband had to go through it either as a T or as a client, I think I would have real *major* problems with it - even if I understand it logically 100 %.
Posted by orchid on April 19, 2006, at 18:31:41
In reply to Re: Pls read: hubby goes to female T/T is your hubby, posted by daisym on April 19, 2006, at 16:32:43
Posted by Poet on April 19, 2006, at 18:35:52
In reply to Pls read: hubby goes to female T/T is your hubby, posted by orchid on April 19, 2006, at 13:11:37
My husband is a massage and craniosacral therapist. He sees clients, male and female, at three offices and in our home.
I look at my husband working with female clients as just part of his job. I know he cares about his clients and wants them to feel better like a psychotherapist does. The hardest part for me is when clients come to our house. I have social anxiety to begin with, so I really keep a low profile when clients are over. My husband literally says *all clear* when they're gone.
He's never been in therapy, but the massage and craniosacral therapists who work on him are women. I've met some of them, so maybe that helps me not feel threatened. During craniosacral work people can feel an emotional release, so I know he's probably said things. I also know that the people he goes to are professional and what he says stays in the room. One of them did craniosacral work on me and I know she didn't tell my husband anything beyond that I was very depressed.
And yes it is ironic that I hate to be touched and my husband is a massage therapist. I've never had a massage. Craniosacral work isn't intrusive- just a light touch. That I can handle.
Poet
Posted by orchid on April 19, 2006, at 18:36:59
In reply to Re: Pls read: hubby goes to female T/T is your hubby, posted by daisym on April 19, 2006, at 16:32:43
My above post went without the body.
This is a personal apology to you Daisy - I didn't mean to hurt you or anyone else.
I thought about it after reading fairywings post above, about this woman who confides in her husband. And it occurred to me how it would have been if my husband had been in that role, and then the extrapolation of the query to the role of a T/T's wife's feelings. And I posted my own feelings around it.
I don't want you to feel bad, or anyone else.
Posted by Poet on April 19, 2006, at 18:45:16
In reply to Re: Honest Answer from both sides (sort of), posted by Poet on April 19, 2006, at 18:35:52
My husband has never told me that any of his clients are in love with him, but the few I've met have said things like *hubby is so wonderful. You are so lucky* Yeah, you don't do his laundry, including the sheets on the massage table!
Poet
Posted by madeline on April 19, 2006, at 19:53:07
In reply to Re: Pls read: hubby goes to female T/T is your hubby, posted by daisym on April 19, 2006, at 16:32:43
I could not agree with you more. I've struggled and struggled with whether my feelings for my T are appropriate.
I even asked him if they were appropriate and he said "ABSOLUTELY!".
My relationship with him IS the therapeutic process for me. I'm not trying to bust up a marriage. I just want to get better.
And I did feel a little hurt by this thread too.
Posted by Dinah on April 19, 2006, at 20:04:39
In reply to Pls read: hubby goes to female T/T is your hubby, posted by orchid on April 19, 2006, at 13:11:37
My therapist has never done anything to dishonor his wife or threaten their marriage.
I've never done anything in therapy that dishonors my husband or threatens my marriage.
I don't understand sexual or romantic attractions too well, but I'm emotionally intimate with my therapist. And he is responsive to my emotional intimacy.
I wouldn't mind it if my husband did what my therapist does, or if he saw a female therapist to do what I do.
I don't tend to be all that jealous though, and I don't tend to put too much emphasis on the whole male/female thing so perhaps I'm not a good example.
Posted by Daisym on April 20, 2006, at 3:11:31
In reply to Re: Pls read: hubby goes to female T/T is your hubby » daisym, posted by orchid on April 19, 2006, at 18:36:59
It felt to me like thinly disguised disapproval of intense feelings for a therapist. I've felt this way before -- that even though the words express an overtly politically correct message, that these feelings were OK or whatever, the truth under the lip service is that they aren't. I just get riled up at back handed slaps. I have no problem having an honest disagreement about this particular subject.
Posted by happyflower on April 20, 2006, at 7:41:14
In reply to Re: Pls read: hubby goes to female T/T is your hubby » orchid, posted by Daisym on April 20, 2006, at 3:11:31
((((((( Daisy)))))))
Thank you for saying what I couldn't say without getting blocked.
Love is love, feelings are feelings, no matter what labels people put on them. That is my story and I am sticking to it. I think feeling love for others is beautiful no matter what others think. It feels good to love. Love is natural and normal, who wouldn't love their T's ?
Posted by one woman cine on April 20, 2006, at 7:56:49
In reply to Re: Pls read: hubby goes to female T/T is your hubby, posted by daisym on April 19, 2006, at 16:32:43
> I think this is an inflammatory thread, with potential to make a lot of people feel bad and I know better than respond.
>
> But..
>
> This issue was brought up before by someone who said she was the significant other of a therapist. I took her posts into therapy with me, because essentially she said we should all be ashamed of ourselves and get a life. My therapist said she had no right to speak for others and that most therapists, and their spouses, know this is part of the package. >Just for the record, Daisym - I feel your statements are inflammatory towards me and my previous postings - this is NOT AT ALL what I said and for your to characterize them as so is hurtful to say the very least. I am sorry if my opinions have irked you in any way. I apologize for my prior honesty - but just because I don't post here anymore does not give any one the right to speak for me or to mis-use me statements. I did not speak for anyone BUT MYSELF, not even for my SO. I gave my feelings and my opinions in an extremely civil manner and your comments are inflammatory. I had made comments about situations where MY PERSONAL life has been intruded upon by overly attached patients, including being stalked. Perhaps that is something that you should bring up to your therapist instead of judging me, which your post MOST certainly does.
Posted by happyflower on April 20, 2006, at 8:42:06
In reply to Re: Pls read: hubby goes to female T/T is your hubby » daisym, posted by one woman cine on April 20, 2006, at 7:56:49
I don't believe Daisy was even speaking about you at all. I think she was speaking in general terms.
I feel you are projecting yourself into her message that has nothing to do with you. Daisy doesn't cause trouble around here, we all love her and think she is great. She is not mean to anyone.
Posted by one woman cine on April 20, 2006, at 8:57:43
In reply to Re: Pls read: hubby goes to female T/T is your hubby » one woman cine, posted by happyflower on April 20, 2006, at 8:42:06
This what Daisy said,
***This issue was brought up before by someone who said she was the significant other of a therapist. I took her posts into therapy with me, because essentially she said we should all be ashamed of ourselves and get a life. My therapist said she had no right to speak for others and that most therapists, and their spouses, know this is part of the package.****
Sorry happyflower, but is certainly NOT general terms, this is someone specific. No, she specifically said *she* and made various allusions to what I said previously. If that's not the case, I'd like to know the *she* daisy is referring to. I'm sure Daisy is a great person, but her post *paraphrasing* (a particular poster, me - in this case) my statements is extremely unkind and uncivil.
Posted by Dinah on April 20, 2006, at 9:05:11
In reply to Re: Pls read: hubby goes to female T/T is your hubby, posted by daisym on April 19, 2006, at 16:32:43
> I took her posts into therapy with me, because essentially she said we should all be ashamed of ourselves and get a life. My therapist said she had no right to speak for others...
Hi Daisy. Former posters are covered by the same civility guidelines as current posters, and so I'm going to have to ask you to please be sensitive to the feelings of other posters even if yours are hurt and to not post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.
Dr. Bob is always free to reverse or adjust deputy decisions as he sees fit. If you wish to contact him directly, his email is on the bottom of each page.
Dinah, acting as deputy for Dr. Bob
Posted by Dinah on April 20, 2006, at 9:09:28
In reply to Re: Pls read: hubby goes to female T/T is your hubby » daisym, posted by one woman cine on April 20, 2006, at 7:56:49
> Just for the record, Daisym - I feel your statements are inflammatory towards me and my previous postings ...
> Perhaps that is something that you should bring up to your therapist instead of judging me, which your post MOST certainly does.
>I'm going to have to ask you to please follow the civility guidelines, which ask that you please be sensitive to the feelings of other posters even if yours are hurt. And please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.
Dr. Bob is always free to reverse or adjust deputy decisions as he sees fit. If you wish to contact him directly, his email is on the bottom of each page.
Dinah, acting as deputy for Dr. Bob
Posted by zazenduck on April 20, 2006, at 9:17:57
In reply to Pls read: hubby goes to female T/T is your hubby, posted by orchid on April 19, 2006, at 13:11:37
http://www.shirleyglass.com/quizfriendship.php
Therapy does sound like an emotional affair doesn't it? Even if it isn't meant to be. I think an emotional affair would hurt me more than a physical one. (Although that would be a relationship ender too.)I also think most therapists share more of themselves in therapy than some might think. Even listening to intimate secrets and responding in a certain way is revealing of the therapists inner self I think. And I just don't think intimacy is something you can share with an unlimited number of people without diminishing it.
Posted by happyflower on April 20, 2006, at 9:36:51
In reply to Re: Pls read: hubby goes to female T/T is your hubby, posted by zazenduck on April 20, 2006, at 9:17:57
I kinda agree. Therapy isn't being taken place in a bubble. It still involves 2 people both with pasts, and futures. It is a give and take. Nobody knows what really goes on in the room between the two people except the 2 people. Even then it is each person perception of what is going on.
I believe good therapy is an intimacy between two people. Even though there are boundries, feelings are flowing both ways. And some of those feeling are love and caring.
If my DH was a T , it would be tough I think knowing he so much to others, but in a way it is a compliment too.
A month ago I was telling my T I felt like such a fraud. I have been sort of mentoring some younger people and giving them love advice. I am like I know I am giving good advice, but I feel so fake because my love life is so much in trouble.
My T said that people are seeing the good stuff in you and feel that you can give offer good advice. A lot of T's have had or is having a very troubled life, but they can still be great T's. My T said a cardiogist can still be a good doctor even thought he might have heart trouble too. I guess I got off the subject here. sorry
Posted by orchid on April 20, 2006, at 13:14:02
In reply to Re: Pls read: hubby goes to female T/T is your hubby » orchid, posted by Daisym on April 20, 2006, at 3:11:31
The truth is, it is about my feelings that I expressed.
I am not a T to stick to one particular idea all the time and take one particular stance. I am also a patient, and my idea of attachment and feelings towards therapists keep varying.
Some days I think it is perfectly allright, and it is the way it should be and ought to be, and it is best to go through it and come out on the other end.
The other days, like yesterday, I felt so horrible for having been attached to another married man (just as many of us here have felt at one time or the other). And thought of how I would feel if I was a T's wife, and how I would feel if my husband had to share many intimate secrets to another woman and get attached to her and not me - and it didn't feel very good at all. I felt horrible *about myself* for having done what I did.
Maybe it wasn't rational, or even correct, but I felt really horrible and bad yesterday, about myself, and the tone in my post expressed these feelings. I didn't even think of you and happyflower or others here in the same situation. The question was to all of us here only as an extrapolation, but most of all, I was speaking of myself and my husband and my T and my T's wife. I didn't say you all should apologize. I said I should. It wasn't any disguised attempt to ridicule or hurt anyone's feelings. How can you believe that I would do such a thing after seeing me here for such a long time? Sometimes I do say things little bluntly, but that mostly comes out before even I have a chance to correct myself. Honestly, what prompted above post was after reading Fairywings post above, and I wrote my post in an instant, without giving too much thought or trying to make it sensitive or be polite. I felt so repulsive of myself for having ever been in a position of Fairywing's husband's colleague, (though my situation was with a T, and it was quite appropriate at afterthought, at that moment, I didn't differentiate it). And I didn't remember either you or happyflower when I wrote that post. Maybe I should have, but it just didn't occur to me.
I have said before, and I will say it again, it wasn't meant to hurt you or HappyFlower. It honestly wasn't.
It was a controversial and provoking post, I agree - but that doesn't mean it was a mean and disguised attempt to hurt anyone's feelings. In fact, only after I read your reply, did it even occur to me that my post could hurt someone, and I added the trigger immediately afterwards.
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