![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 26 to 50 of 59. Go back in thread:
Posted by Pfinstegg on December 28, 2004, at 9:28:20
In reply to Coexisting Ego States, posted by daisym on December 28, 2004, at 0:35:33
I think I understand all the things you mentioned; I keep experiencing one or another of them, too. Aren't all the things which are hard to bear- the longing to see him very often, the fear of the abuse, the fear that he won't want to keep seeing you , the sorrow that you had to endure this- and that he wasn't there to love and protect you *then*- all feelings that the younger you had, and keeps on having? You could call some of it "flashbacks", but, to look at it another way, the younger you is still alive, and doesn't have a time sense the way the adult you does.
I'd agree completely with your T that you are really doing very deep important work. You've gotten your younger self truly out into the therapy, and all the feelings you are experiencing are the very uncomfortable, uncertain ones which she felt. I think it's OK to trust them, even though you don't yet know where they are leading. It will lead to more acceptance and integration between the two parts, and that should eventually diminish your depression and anxiety. I think it's so good to allow as much of a dialogue as possible between your younger self and the therapist- that way, your younger part will have a new, good experience with your wonderful T, who seems to know just what to do, and is not having any difficulty maintaining a very positive, optimistic and close conection to all of you. If you think about it, he is very experienced, and he must have been able to bring really difficult work like this to a successful conclusion with other clients. If he hadn't done that, he wouldn't be so hopeful and confident in his work with you. If you're discouraged now, let him have "hope for you both", as mine has said. Also, if you need medication, don't be afraid to take it; I know you've frequently seen it written that therapy and medication are the most potent combination for change. I'm personally in favor of low doses of medication; I presently take 37.5 mg. of Wellbutrin, and 5 mg. of Lexapro
Posted by Daisym on December 28, 2004, at 11:02:55
In reply to Re: Coexisting Ego States » daisym, posted by Pfinstegg on December 28, 2004, at 9:28:20
Thanks for the encouragement. I trust him. I just don't trust me. It feels like all the things in my life I used to know "for sure" I don't anymore. It makes sense, as you said, that this uncertainty is coming from the younger part of me.
I was thinking about the above thread on attachment and me and you and others here. I can't imagine doing this work if I wasn't sure he would be there, day after day, "just in case." He finally said it out loud last week: "You were so badly damaged and your ability to trust and receive comfort for your deepest feelings was destroyed. This has to be healed, over time and through our relationship." (We had been talking about some of my friends and their therapy, which looks nothing like mine.)
I still want a crystal ball which will show me how long this will take, or at least, how long before I can back myself off. At what point do you tell yourself that you must stand on your own two feet more, go to therapy less and remain steady without the frequent contact? Maybe this is what medication could do for me?
Are you having a hard time closing your younger self back up, in between sessions?
Posted by Pfinstegg on December 28, 2004, at 11:42:06
In reply to Re: Coexisting Ego States » Pfinstegg, posted by Daisym on December 28, 2004, at 11:02:55
I think my terrified, frozen girl is *out* all the time now; I'm trying to learn to be more comfortable with all her feelings, as well as to remember to comfort her when the feelings begin to really hurt a lot. I must admit, life was easier when she was *in*! (except it wasn't really- i was more anxious and depressed)
Your therapist is so right about the damage to your younger self's trust and ability to be comforted. It really sounds as though both of them (both our Ts) feel confident that once these parts of ourselves are more fully present, they can begin to have the new, good and healing experience of interacting with our gifted, caring therapists. I don't worry how long I'll be so dependent, or about whether I should back off. I know it won't be soon, but i think i will know when I can do it.
Posted by daisym on December 28, 2004, at 18:30:15
In reply to Re: Coexisting Ego States » Daisym, posted by Pfinstegg on December 28, 2004, at 11:42:06
Today's session made me dizzy. I was leaping from age state to age state, getting everything all confused and twisted up. I ended up with a single phrase screaming in my head, "don't leave me, don't leave me, don't leave me." My therapist was so calm but he didn't rescue me, he just had each age state stay with it: the young girl of 7 whose mom was in the hospital for 2 months and the abuse started...the girl of 13 who was putting up with some heavy duty csa and then her dad moved away anyway, with no contact for 4 years and the adult whose husband is dying, no matter what she does. It was so, so hard to have us all crying at the same time. But I think I've been working up to this intersection of pain for weeks now. The cross over is unbelievable. It got quiet and my therapist looked at me sadly and just said, "OH, {Daisy}..."
Of course the younger girls needed reassurance that he would be there tomorrow. The adult needs to think about some of these new insights. I have no idea how to not retraumatized little daisy every day by the tension and anger in my house and another impending "leaving." My therapist said it is obviously a re-enactment for her and it explains a lot about why I am so unstable right now but he doesn't have the answer as to what "we" do about it. (I love that he says "we.")He just wants me to trust him that I can get through all of this and he won't leave me in the middle of it.
I grew very afraid today that I would disappoint him and not have the strength to deal with it all. I don't know which part of me that is coming from. Do you worry that your therapist is disappointed that your younger self doesn't trust him yet?
This is so hard. I feel just nuts, all these parts and pieces. How do you accept this? Or at least move towards acceptance. I actually sobbed out today, "make it stop. I don't want to know these things anymore." *sigh* I'm choosing to do this, right?
Posted by Pfinstegg on December 28, 2004, at 18:47:35
In reply to Re: Coexisting Ego States » Pfinstegg, posted by daisym on December 28, 2004, at 18:30:15
That sounds like a tremendously hard, but meaningful session- it's like everything really painful, from all the parts, just all came out practically at once! Don't you think that might be a sign that you are integrating everything more? There will be good things, too, daisy. Your T is really the most genuine and empathic one I've ever heard of. I know there's got to be a lot of healing in how he uses the relationship you have with him to help you get well.
You are right on! I came in today, and found my 6-year old self saying that she was completely terrified that if she began to trust him, he would leave her. Then I looked at him, and said, "you look so sad." He said, "yes, I'm feeling something I don't often feel- how hopeless she is- as if she just can't imagine a good experience with anyone- not even me." As we talked about that a little, those feelings abated, and she did trust him enough to remember more details of the abuse. I ended on a completely different note- glad of the work we had done together, and sharing a laugh with him about how much vanilla-almond ice cream my little girl seems to need to consume these days!
Posted by daisym on December 28, 2004, at 19:05:51
In reply to Re: Coexisting Ego States » daisym, posted by Pfinstegg on December 28, 2004, at 18:47:35
As I walked out today, I told him, "tomorrow we talk about lasagna recipes." He laughed. I'm glad you ended on a good note too.
There is this dance, isn't there? You build a little more trust, you tell some more of the details, you revisit the trust, tell some more and then you shake that trust really hard, to see if it will hold up. When it does, there is this immense relief and momentary calm. And then the dance starts again.
I'm actually not sure if integration is his goal as much as it is mine. I think he would like there to not be a war between the age states, fighting for who is in charge. I know he warns about being careful not to confuse integration with subjugation, stuffing her and her feelings and memories back into the box from which she came. (and yes, that felt good just to write)!
Posted by Aphrodite on December 29, 2004, at 13:34:19
In reply to Coexisting Ego States, posted by daisym on December 28, 2004, at 0:35:33
Mind if I jump in?
I must say that the striking thing about reading how your T's handle the various ego states is their rock solid support and demeanor. My T is very much "in to" part-self analogies and work, but he tends to be more erratic. Many of my ego states don't trust him because he doesn't react predictably. He reacts to them emotionally -- sometimes becoming very sad, sometimes he argues (he can REALLY have little flares of temper!), sometimes he says he is frightened for me.
On one hand, parts of me are glad he is so invested and so easily affected. The more adult parts of me worry that he is getting too involved and then I back off, shut up the young, wounded parts in order to take care of him when he seems particularly distressed.
We tend to be caught in a vicious cycle of his expertise in pulling out the young voices, me having a meltdown, he engaging in excessive worry and intervention, and then my "adults" getting in control again and taking care of him.
He says when I voice these concerns (and I believe he is right) that none of my wounded emotional side would trust him at all if he were not "real". He said I would never feel safe talking to a rock of gibraltar.
Still, I wonder . . .
Posted by daisym on December 29, 2004, at 16:36:30
In reply to Daisy Pfinstegg, posted by Aphrodite on December 29, 2004, at 13:34:19
I think I would agree about the safety if he were just a "blank slate" because I would project all of my fears of telling onto him and read into it that way. I sort of do that anyway, even with steady reassurance.
I read an interesting article last night (early this morning?) about how the different age states can develop very different kinds of dependency and the therapist needs to be really careful to be consistent because inconsistency can cause a high degree of insecure attachment. And the insecurity shows up as a push/pull between the age states. Most of the time the younger, less dominate age states attach and then test. But sometimes there is another non-dominate age that can "punish" for feeling dependent. The article did talk a lot about a "good enough" therapist, because no one can be perfectly consistent.
Unfortunately, there was a long section warning the therapist about how taxing trauma clients can be and how aware of their personal boundaries and responses they need to be. It completely fed my fear and I finally talked myself into shutting it off, because I was getting worked up. What struck me most was how the authors tried to differentiate between gratifying a "need" vs. a "wish." They had it down to a need being biologically based and a wish being more of a pyschological issue. Then they turned around and talked about how the need for a secure attachment feels as essential as air sometimes for the client, especially when you are doing deep regressive work so the therapist has to stay flexible. URG! I guess you have to be consistently flexible?!
I think mostly we just have to put the breaks on ourselves and our need to caretake our therapist. This is so much easier said than done. But sometimes when I can forget about that part, we get so much more work done. I might feel worried later, but I don't as much as I use to.
Posted by Dinah on December 29, 2004, at 17:41:00
In reply to Daisy Pfinstegg, posted by Aphrodite on December 29, 2004, at 13:34:19
I can understand why you would wonder.
Not that I'm criticizing your therapist or anything, but I can see where the cycle you're talking about could be distressing. Have you discussed it with him? Does he see the same pattern?
I might *wish* my therapist were a bit more involved, but the truth is that I appreciate his steady, consistent presence, which he might not be able to maintain if he were too involved himself.
Posted by Dinah on December 29, 2004, at 17:45:59
In reply to Re: Coexisting Ego States » Pfinstegg, posted by daisym on December 28, 2004, at 18:30:15
Daisy, with all the stuff you have to deal with right now it's no wonder you're feeling that way.
I'm so glad you have such a terrific therapist to help you through it.
Posted by Pfinstegg on December 29, 2004, at 23:49:57
In reply to Daisy Pfinstegg, posted by Aphrodite on December 29, 2004, at 13:34:19
You've described so well why the work with ego states is so difficult to do. The therapists DO get blindsided by different states with sudden storms of unexpected feelings-anger, fear, sorrow, etc., and it takes years of experience not to react by getting angry or hurt. I once said to my T that I wished that I had found him earlier. He replied, "I might not have been experienced enough to help you then." My T also has said, in many different ways, that it's vital to be with clients emotionally- just like yours said. So they have to be open and tuned in to us, but then can't react with over-solicitiousness, anger, worry, etc.- or any feeling which might cause us to close up and start worrying about their feelings. You described it so well! Don't you think, though, that each client-therapist pair gradually get better and better at dealing with one another's feelings, so that the intensity, honesty and intimacy remains, but there is also more calmness and "containment' on the therapist's part?
Posted by daisym on December 30, 2004, at 2:17:25
In reply to Re: Coexisting Ego States » daisym, posted by Dinah on December 29, 2004, at 17:45:59
I want to believe things get more contained. I asked today if He thought I should be doing better by now, should be able to not fall apart without so much contact. He said I'm exactly where I need to be and he has no expectations or time tables. He did say he wished I could hold things better because there were so many hours where I was suffering. I'm trying not to read into that statement too much. We also talked about the enormous amount of reassurance needed right now by "the girls." Even if the adult gets most of the session, they still want to ask at the end if he will be there tomorrow...he always says yes. (big sigh of relief.)
We talked about compassion fatigue today too. He said he isn't burnt out but it was highly likely that I would sense it before he was even close. He looked at me very seriously and asked, "do you smell anything burning?" I had to laugh.
Posted by antigua on December 30, 2004, at 13:01:56
In reply to Coexisting Ego States, posted by daisym on December 28, 2004, at 0:35:33
I've been fascinated by what has been posted here and I'm so proud of everyone for hanging in there through all this hard stuff.
I don't handle this as well as many of you do (I'm not being hard on myself so don't fuss at me!) My little girls came out through EMDR last year. Actually, I was working on a story of my own with a young, battered girl in it and when the little girls came out, I realized the girl in the story was me. The unconscious is a great thing, isn't it?
All the girls are in a holding pattern right now and I can't seem to get anyone to make a move. I have one very small little girl with huge eyes who watches quietly from the doorway. She's "me" and she's waiting to see how this all plays out. The second is a very angy, 9 or 10 year old girl who wants control (That's the age when my father left). She wants to be bad, she wants to live, she wants the life I was never brave enough to live. But she can't do anything w/o the body, which is represented by the third girl, the badly damaged 5/6 year old who had to deal w/the abuse. The third is just a mess on the floor. She can't move; she's pathetic really, she oozes disgust and shame. She's immovable at this time. Sometimes I think she needs to be killed off, but she controls the body. (Does any of this make sense?)
Girl #2 is the only one who has spoken directly to my T, and that has only been once, after I had a physical reaction (shaking, couldn't catch my breath) to getting close to the underlying terror that seems to encompass my life (I've never been able to get through or understand these feelings). The girl spoke to the T because I was angry that she didn't protect me when I had that accident after a flashback (none of which I remember).
So we are in a stalemate. I do not trust my T. My feelings for her after almost 14 years are that she is simply doing her job. I know this is wrong, she is a wonderful T and I have no logical reason to dislike her (I just don't want anyone to suggest getting another T). I've just found myself being so analytical w/her. We have great insights that are helping tremendously but my feelings rarely come out anymore.
She knows all this, of course. We talk about it. She says I'm moving at the rate I need to, but I'm just so frustrated.
So that's my story. Sometimes I wonder if this is as good as it's going to get, and I know I've said before that if it is, I can handle it. I can live w/this person. It's the frustration that's so hard.
thanks for letting me vent,
antigua
Posted by daisym on December 31, 2004, at 0:21:21
In reply to Re: Coexisting Ego States, posted by antigua on December 30, 2004, at 13:01:56
Antigua,
Can you talk to all your little girls? Do they talk to each other? Sometimes I feel like there is a war going on inside my head!
I know you have been doing this a long time. But you are making gains. It is just slow...forward and then back and then forward again. There is nothing wrong with working for containment. Is your frustration around not knowing? Or is it something else?
btw: I totally get what you mean by one person being in charge but the others watching and sort of waiting their turn. It seems like your feelings for your therapist and your mom are all mixed up. I know how painful it can be to feel all of that. No wonder you've shut yourself down.
I'm glad you jumped in here. I've missed you.
Posted by Pfinstegg on December 31, 2004, at 1:37:35
In reply to Re: Coexisting Ego States, posted by antigua on December 30, 2004, at 13:01:56
Gosh. It seems like you've got such a clear idea of who your different ego states are, how they feel, and what they need. Would it help to have more EMDR to give them a way to speak more? My therapist asked if I would add on art therapy, so as to find ways to express the less verbal parts of my different selves. I have just started, but I like the therapist very much- we almost do play therapy together at times, drawing together, using clay, etc. It's hard to say what is occuring, but SOMETHING is. I feel a lot more open and safe in my regular therapy- I guess I should say that my younger selves are the ones that do. I just do it once every two weeks, but I do think it's making something different happen.
Just a thought - and please tell me if I'm wrong -WHO is it that doesn't trust your therapist? Just to hazard a guess, it must be one or more of your younger selves. I think it's unlikely to be the adult you, after such a long period of being with her.(and I think you are making it clear that the adult YOU DOESN'T want to leave her at all).
It is so hard to do this kind of work, with some selves competing ferociously for the therapist's attention, and other collapsed and miserable selves intent on remaining hidden. I do like my therapist's idea of using a team approach during the hardest times. I hope one of these ideas may be useful to you to help you feel like you are moving forward again.
Posted by antigua on December 31, 2004, at 7:51:15
In reply to Glacier Movement » antigua, posted by daisym on December 31, 2004, at 0:21:21
Good insights, thanks Daisy.
The only girl who talks to the others is the "angry" one, although I don't like to refer to her always as "angry" because I think she is the one who is going to survive, less the anger and hopefully will be the "assertive" one. This little girl is very critical of the weak one, verbally and otherwise; the weak one can't even speak at this point. Containing the angry one is important at this point (often I have to keep her locked away) because she could do a lot of damage (I think she's the one who caused the accident). She's definitely self-destructive, but very powerful--except she doesn't have the body, so she's limited.
Yes I know I have my T and mother mixed up. Up until this point my T has always been the "good mother," defending and protecting me against others when I needed it. But I don't feel that way anymore. She has limitations--her job has limitations, because after all, at the most basic this is her JOB (we argue about this). There are some objective truths--she is certainly invested in my care, but there's a limit. I guess you could say that the attachment is gone, and it makes me feel quite hopeless that if the attachment is gone w/her, I'm on my own, which I really do think should be the end result of therapy. She has taught me well, I internalize her (and I sure can help others around me by what I've learned from her), but we are stuck at a dead end, and true to her style, I'm the one to unblock it, and I can't.
I've never been angry at my mother over this--or my father. Anger for them is outside the spectrum of my feelings. Oh, I can rant and rave privately on occasion, but it does no good. I've jumped right over it--my mother did the best she could. She went from one abusive relationship to another and she did what she had to do to survive. I would never accept that for my own kids, but my mother has her limitations and I just can't hold them against her. My father? Just can't go there. I loved him very much, and as Daisy said, my father was a different man in the later years of his life. Plus, my knowledge of the abuse didn't consciously surface until afer he died, even though a part of me knew it was always there.
So I'm a mess. The urge is to do something, anything to alleviate these awful feelings. I want to tell me T to DO SOMETHING, but it has to come from me. The key is to not self destruct before I figure it out--a genuine fear I have.
antigua
Posted by antigua on December 31, 2004, at 8:00:43
In reply to Re: Coexisting Ego States » antigua, posted by Pfinstegg on December 31, 2004, at 1:37:35
Thanks Pfinstegg.
I had to leave EMDR because it meant I had two Ts and a psych offering me their opinions, which often conflicted. As I said earlier, my emotions would come out, quite restrained, with my EMDR T but I was beginning to form some type of relationship to her that I just didn't want to risk becoming overly involved with. The teamwork had its drawbacks.
I quit after the accident, but part of me thinks it's time to go back. I just don't need anymore relationship complications at this time. EMDR has been helpful for understanding how the weak little girl felt, but I haven't had any success in making her feel better (that is, connecting the girls).
Who is it that doesn't trust my T? Actually, I do think it's my adult. It has been proven to me time and again that reaching out for help rarely works in the end--I am responsible for my own well-being, as well meaning as my T is. comes from being a kid, I'm sure, but I do think it's the adult.
Also, I'm slow to trust, and I don't think my little girls are competing for her attention at all. They are fighting it out among themselves.
See, I just don't trust anyone. But the truth doesn't lie--it doesn't work for me, no matter how open and trusting I've tried to be. I'm probably expecting too much, but the result is always disappointment.
antigua
Posted by Aphrodite on January 1, 2005, at 7:46:08
In reply to Re: Daisy Pfinstegg » Aphrodite, posted by daisym on December 29, 2004, at 16:36:30
I smiled at your account of the article you just read because I am knee-deep in a book about countertransference issues, compassion fatigue, vicarious traumatization, etc. I keep bringing things up, and he finally got irritated and ordered me to stop reading that! I said I found it helpful to understand things from his point of view, but he said that was insulting because his point of view is not in that book and I am making generalizations about him that are not his "truths." "If you want to know what kind of reaction *I* am having, ask ME!"
So, I told him that we haven't even begun to talk about any real issues, and I feared that I have used up his well of compassion on just forming trust and a relationship and talking about the fears of letting go and telling the tales. He reassured me that his well is replenishable and that his privilege and desire is to help and that I had no idea how easy I am to care for and give to. It was nothing like the book, so I'm glad he made me ask.
Posted by Aphrodite on January 1, 2005, at 7:48:48
In reply to Re: Daisy Pfinstegg » Aphrodite, posted by Dinah on December 29, 2004, at 17:41:00
I have discussed with him the pattern of opening up, getting an emotional reaction from him and then needing to take care of him. He did not see the same pattern, but acknowledged that I engage in "misguided caretaking." I think the truth is that he is an intensely emotional person and since I am more reserved, I think what is "normal" from him comes across to me as a severe reaction to what I am saying or doing. I just need to accept him a little more and trust that he takes care of himself. Easier said than done!
Posted by Aphrodite on January 1, 2005, at 7:53:40
In reply to Getting a little derailed by ego states » Aphrodite, posted by Pfinstegg on December 29, 2004, at 23:49:57
I think you are right that as a more trusting relationship emerges that I will have less need to analyze, worry, etc. And I do need to show him more of my ego states and let them have more opportunities to speak without my editing so that he can get to know their "voices" better and so things won't be a shocking to him. I really hate how long and deep this process is. There has just been so much abuse/neglect at various times in my life that so many ego states became frozen and stuck. It's hard to undo because it's not like you can say, "OK let's fix the five year old . . . next will do the 'angry' five year old . . . then the teenager, etc." Working on one at a time, for me, is virtually impossible because of all the other states clammoring for time and attention or adults who think everything is "fine" try to shut down the effort. I'm tired just thinking about it:)
Posted by Aphrodite on January 1, 2005, at 8:03:01
In reply to Re: Coexisting Ego States » Pfinstegg, posted by antigua on December 31, 2004, at 8:00:43
I am sad to hear that your attachment has not returned with your T since the last time you posted about it. I understand that your accident was a huge rupture in trust and shocked you into a place of self-sufficiency. I am glad that you still go to her though and use her in whatever support capacity you can right now. It seems heartening, though, that you did feel things with your EMDR T. Do you think that still shows you have the desire and capacity for attachment? Did you not want to pursue with because you would prefer to have that with you T? I can see how having to Ts might lead to confusion.
I was touched by the stories of your various ego states. My T, who does use EMDR on occasion, is gently working me toward a place of creating an integrated, executive me who understands and is compassionate toward all the part-selves and who can direct the internal states toward consensus and making good decisions for all involved. I have serious doubts about ever getting there, but it's a wonderful concept.
I am sorry to hear that you are struggling so much. I hope you keep posting with updates.
Posted by Dinah on January 1, 2005, at 9:08:01
In reply to the pattern » Dinah, posted by Aphrodite on January 1, 2005, at 7:48:48
I asked because sometimes things in a relationship are our perception and not reality. It helps to get the other person's reality and try to mesh them. There's a perception that all reality is on the part of the therapist and all misconception is on the part of the client. But I think that's not always, or perhaps even usually, true. Unless we find we are perceiving the same things in different people frequently enough that perhaps we should open our minds to the possibility that what we are seeing is in *us* not them. But if we perceive something about our therapists that we don't generally have a pattern of perceiving in others, I sort of think there is often a grain of truth to it. Because many of us are more perceptive than the average bear. That's when it's helpful to talk it over time and time again, and find out what is behind the kernel of truth that we perceive.
I did that with my therapist and found that yes, there was truth to my perceptions, but that no, that truth was not as big and as bad as I had feared. To me that was way more reassuring than if he had constantly told me that there was no truth whatsoever. I would have constantly been at odds between what I saw and what I was told. But when we discovered the truth together, we were able to work things out until they were no longer an undercurrent in our relationship.
A few examples if I haven't bored you to tears already. I perceived that he was uncomfortable with my dependence, while he denied it. When we finally had that big blowup where he accidentally blurted that he had trouble with dependent women, and it wasn't anything specific to me, he became a much better therapist and the resistance he was putting up to my dependence faded away. Without the resistance, my dependence had nothing to push against, and it lessened in strength. I perceived that he did *not* want me to talk about me and me. While I never directly addressed the topic, I talked around it for years, until I finally sat him down and told him it was getting in the way of my therapy. Years after that he admitted that a) he didn't want to encourage or create ego states that didn't exist before therapy and b) he had MPD burnout having had several in his caseload shortly before seeing me. It was so much a relief to hear him admit that. To know what it was that I was picking up from him and why. He also used to be sort of appalled at my grooming. He said again yesterday that he didn't think less of me for it (when I was commenting that his hair always looked good enough to take a photo and that when he looked at me he must feel...). And today I think maybe he sees *me* and isn't in fact mildly revolted. I doubt he'll *ever* admit to that one, but I know it's true. :)
I suppose I should clarify that he never expressed these things to meet his own needs. He always (except perhaps the one blurting time) assessed the value of admitting to the truth that I already knew. And I don't think he's ever misjudged that.
So I think it's a healthy thing to hash things out and find out what's the truth at the base of what may be a manufactured structure of assumptions on our part. But maybe that's just me. I have to admit that I've been willing (and even relieved) to hear less than flattering things as long as they weren't as bad as I feared. Perhaps not everyone is willing to do that. Which is perfectly ok too.
One of the things I like best about my therapist is his unflappability. He flares into anger occasionally, but he's open and receptive to whatever I say and whatever me shows up to therapy. He doesn't even skip a beat. I think it would be very distressing to me if he were very emotional. But I'm sure to other people, it is very validating to have a therapist who empathizes so. Particularly if the therapist is expressing things that they can't.
Posted by Aphrodite on January 1, 2005, at 11:02:02
In reply to Re: the pattern » Aphrodite, posted by Dinah on January 1, 2005, at 9:08:01
> Because many of us are more perceptive than the average bear. That's when it's helpful to talk it over time and time again, and find out what is behind the kernel of truth that we perceive.
I think you hit the nail on the head. I believe I am very intuitive. It is one of the few "gifts" I think a trauma person has -- I can sense goodness or danger in others and react accordingly. I think I can really tell when others are hiding or being untruthful. So, he sometimes tries to be very therapist-y and "above the fray" but I can tell he is really thinking something else. I keep pushing, as you say, and the truth often leaks out.
>
> Years after that he admitted that a) he didn't want to encourage or create ego states that didn't exist before therapy and b) he had MPD burnout having had several in his caseload shortly before seeing me. It was so much a relief to hear him admit that.This is interesting because I have an underlying feeling of resentment that my T "created" this pathology in me of ego states. When we first started discussing my problems in this way, I was mortified and thought I sounded "crazy" when, in fact, I was trying to promote myself as perfectly fine and normal. As we worked with it, the truth of the existence of this problem was so overwhelming that I could no longer accuse him of the creation, and he worked very hard to normalize it in light of my life circumstances, and make it as bearable and acceptable as possible. Interesting that the two of you had the reverse experience. Admitting that he had a lot of DID experience does explain things. Did he ever admit that yours did, in fact, exist prior to therapy?
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> One of the things I like best about my therapist is his unflappability. He flares into anger occasionally, but he's open and receptive to whatever I say and whatever me shows up to therapy. He doesn't even skip a beat. I think it would be very distressing to me if he were very emotional. But I'm sure to other people, it is very validating to have a therapist who empathizes so. Particularly if the therapist is expressing things that they can't.
>This is my catch-22. My T will ALWAYS skip a beat, but that's him. It sounds nice, though, to be free to be honest. Yet, your last line is where I need the help most. Since he is 100% "in it" with me emotionally speaking, he can not only express what I do not yet have language for, but he often also says that he is feeling what I am feeling. He says, "It's feeling hard for me to breathe listening to this. Is that what you're experiencing?" Or, "I'm getting tense in my muscles around my neck, are you?" And he is usually always right. And then he'll lead me through some breathing exercises or tell me to stretch to help with the somatic experiences as I speak. And since I am so frozen and stoic, his participation helps get me through the rougher sessions.
Posted by Aphrodite on January 1, 2005, at 11:02:38
In reply to Re: the pattern, posted by Aphrodite on January 1, 2005, at 11:02:02
Posted by antigua on January 1, 2005, at 12:12:48
In reply to Re: Coexisting Ego States » antigua, posted by Aphrodite on January 1, 2005, at 8:03:01
Thank you Aphrodite, that was very kind of you.
You brought up a good question--whether or not I still have the capacity for attachment. Hadn't thought about it that way. I certainly have it w/my children, but at this point I truly feel and believe that nobody can help me but me. I don't say that meanly, or to garner self pity, it just seems to be the objective truth. Then again, I'm certain I'm wrong, too, and I hope I'm just going through a phase. The funny thing is that it's not like I can just "let go" and trust. Is there a trick I don't know about?
This may sound silly, but my expectations must be too high (that feeling of wanting something I can never have, probably, because it's a bygone needy feeling from infancy) and since other people (my T, for ex) can't live up to the expectation, I just can't trust them. Lowering my expectations IS what I do IRL, because that's the way life is, but I can't seem to do that when it comes to my most desperate needs.
antigua
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