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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 59. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Pfinstegg on December 22, 2004, at 18:41:53
Especially, whether others beside me who have one or more different *parts* find that the different parts have completely different transferences to their T's. I, the grown-up, have a very strong and positive attachment to my T, but I am discovering, as my younger parts forge into the therapy more, that they do not. They are fearful and suspicious; I think they may even think he is the hated doctor of my childhood. This upsets me so much! I am supposed to be comforting and supportive of these other, younger parts, but it's hard to be, consistently, because I am afraid they are going to wreck my therapy! I have to keep reminding myself that my T says he welcomes them- welcomes all of me. This helps some, but this whole situation makes me very uneasy. Does anyone else with an ego state disorder have any comparable experiences they could share?
Posted by LG04 on December 22, 2004, at 19:48:04
In reply to Would love to hear others' experiences.., posted by Pfinstegg on December 22, 2004, at 18:41:53
i also have different ego states that have different reactions to my (former) therapist at different times. i have a very challenging teenage part that got mad at her often. also one of my kid parts either loved her so much or would feel like she hates her. different parts trust her more at different times as well. the adult me is very securely attached and loves her very much and trusts her more than any other part.
i brought all those parts to therapy and nothing was ever wrecked. once in a while i would preface something by saying, "not all of me feels this way but this one voice in me says...." b/c i'd worry about hurting her feelings. but sometimes i'd just be furious and let it out, i'd go for sessions at a time feeling so angry at her that was totally transference and not related to something in real life that she did.
she handled it very well, while it was hard on me b/c i wanted to feel close to her. but i think it was important to work thru those feelings, to learn about myself and how i feel about the things that happened to me, how i react to certain triggers (like separation for instance her vacations), and maybe most of all to have a place to get really mad and a person to get mad at and to see that it doesn't destroy a relationship. that i can still be loved and accepted even when i am angry. i won't get punished and i won't be abused for it and i won't get the silent treatment and in fact, she'd even ask me to tell her more about my anger! nothing could have been more different than what i experienced as a kid (and still with my mom). i never had that experience as i wasn't allowed to be angry or distrustful growing up (and boy did i have a lot to be angry about).
i learned so much about anger in relationships and anger/distrust within my self and i think i handle anger in a much more healthy way now.
so i'd say, not only did it not wreck therapy but it enhanced therapy and i feel/felt a lot closer to her i think b/c she accepted all those voices and never abandoned me emotionally due to any of them. she was steadfast in her love and caring for me no matter what parts came out. that's a pretty amazing feeling.
LG04
Posted by Pfinstegg on December 22, 2004, at 20:30:52
In reply to Re: Would love to hear others' experiences.., posted by LG04 on December 22, 2004, at 19:48:04
That's wonderful to hear. I know you are right, but, being right in the middle of these very disorienting experiences, it means so much to hear from someone who has worked them through to the other side- and found that your relationship with your T is deepened and strengthened. Thanks for responding! Have you finished your therapy?
Posted by messadivoce on December 22, 2004, at 22:05:16
In reply to Re: Would love to hear others' experiences.. » LG04, posted by Pfinstegg on December 22, 2004, at 20:30:52
I like this thread. When I was with my old T, it was the little girl part of me that was so attached to him. So much of the work we did together was to help that child in me speak. She did not trust him at all at first. She thought he was just like her dad and was going to take advantage of her being vulnerable. But he won that child's trust. She had the strong desire so many times to reach out her arms to him, to ask him to hold her. She would have wrapped her arms around his waist and held on for dear life had she had the chance.
The adult me is much more rational, but it dealt with the child by becoming attracted to my T instead of seeing the childlike feelings for what they were. Often we would speak of how I felt in my childhood, and then my T would look at me with those deep brown eyes of his and say, "But you're a woman now." He could always speak to the adult me and keep the child in me safe at the same time.
With my new T, the child and the woman in me do seperate, but there is less contrast between them. Because I try to be open with her, I end up feeling like the vulnerable child a lot of the time, but that is a feeling I experience with people who are not my T. Stuff gets blurry sometimes, doesn't it?
Posted by Pfinstegg on December 22, 2004, at 22:44:55
In reply to Re: Would love to hear others' experiences.., posted by messadivoce on December 22, 2004, at 22:05:16
I love that description of how your former T was able to hold the adult and child parts simultaneously, and help both to feel recognized and able to trust. Since I guess the goal is to integrate these parts more, perhaps that's why you don't feel such a separation with your new T- progress?
I'm still feeling that I'm either one part, or the other; it's hard for me to feel that I'm both at once, although I know it abstractly. It's so good to hear from people who are further along in this difficult process. I'm also impressed by the increasing number of posters who are describing their treatment for an ego state disorder. It seems to me that it's being increasingly recognized as the usual result of childhood trauma and abuse.
Posted by Fallen4MyT on December 22, 2004, at 22:54:06
In reply to Would love to hear others' experiences.., posted by Pfinstegg on December 22, 2004, at 18:41:53
PF hey you :) I think the adult in me loves just about everything about my T...but the child hates his taste in cars.....pricey but not sporty.....and his music and GAK just ewww,,,,,and he was eating a cookie the other day and had tons of crumbs on his sweater...
I hope all is well with you I have missed you and wish you mucho clothes this holiday season :)
Posted by Pfinstegg on December 22, 2004, at 23:17:29
In reply to Re: Would love to hear others' experiences.. » Pfinstegg, posted by Fallen4MyT on December 22, 2004, at 22:54:06
My goodness, Fallen! I've been following the hints of your amazing story. I'm jealous! And a bit worried as to whether you'll be O.K.- I think you will, though. I'm doing well on my clothing- it's much prettier and sexier. My T always wears a tweed jacket, and a suit on teaching days, and looks quite handsome and sexy himself- but, for better or worse, that's the end of it. No sweaters.
Posted by Fallen4MyT on December 22, 2004, at 23:35:28
In reply to The Clothes » Fallen4MyT, posted by Pfinstegg on December 22, 2004, at 23:17:29
Awww PF no need to worry I am doing well and I figure it this way...if ...I get knocked down...I get back up again <insert song by Chumbawumba> I am an odd duck....lol a tought bird when things go south ...oh well ya know...but I will tell ya...t IS mmmm mmmm good :P
My T usually wears like a shirt with buttons dress shirt and pants but the other day he threw me with that sweater and it was nice...but ummm the cookie crumbs..heck I am diabetic I couldn't even lick them off hahahahaha J/J Now if I recall correctly minus when you come in and leave you do not see your T...you lay with your head to him? He could do odd stuff like put hats on , take stuff off :P ya never know...let your mind run wild hahahahah....My T may leave for a month to 6 weeks I will post on that later ....I shall die..or shop :) a LOT
> My goodness, Fallen! I've been following the hints of your amazing story. I'm jealous! And a bit worried as to whether you'll be O.K.- I think you will, though. I'm doing well on my clothing- it's much prettier and sexier. My T always wears a tweed jacket, and a suit on teaching days, and looks quite handsome and sexy himself- but, for better or worse, that's the end of it. No sweaters.
Posted by daisym on December 23, 2004, at 3:30:50
In reply to Re: Would love to hear others' experiences.., posted by messadivoce on December 22, 2004, at 22:05:16
I think I have somewhat of the opposite experience from you...my younger parts are very attached and want lots of contact. My adult "gate-keeper" knows therapy is important and useful, but would be OK with a lot less contact. "I" don't fall apart over little things..."she" gets her feelings hurt easily.
Recently I talked about how vulnerable my attachment made me feel, in relation to him having power over me. I'm pretty sure that this was the 12/13 year old talking. She firmly expects to have to pay to get her needs met. And/or to use sex as a "tool" to get what she wants. We've talked about this a couple of times now and it seems that not only are there frozen age states but there are several ego states within the age ranges. As we get deeper and deeper in, I'm horrified and fascinated by this.
Even how I sit, or hold myself changes, based on which part of me is relating to him. The adult will sit legs cross at the knees or ankles, holding a pillow. The 12/13 year old will tuck her legs up underneith and/or sit cross-legged on the couch, holding a pillow and the youngest parts of slump way down or sit knees to chin, holding a pillow. Luckily we all like the same pillow!
The other thing that happens is that different parts of me are triggered by different events. I suffered a huge blow last week with having my space invaded. This triggered the youngest part of me into a panic about being caught "telling" -- I was sure I was going to get into trouble and have my therapist taken away from me. The adult felt so selfish about these feelings and it was easy enough to problem solve this, so it shouldn't have been a big deal. But I just couldn't stop having a tantrum about it. He looked at me and said, "You really, really want this. It is all YOURS and you don't want to share me." Exactly! The younger part was so relieved he understood. The adult cringed.
On Monday I had a critical blow to my "mommy" self esteem. My son's therapist asked me if I was "saving" him. It is complicated but the long and short of it is -- yes, I am saving him, and me and my sister, for that matter. All of our feelings are confused and intertwined and when I tried to sort them out over the past few days, the adult went into a depressive state because I felt like a failure as a mom. My therapist tried to build perspective for me and help me sort out big picture from temporary misstep. My younger self was frantic -- I felt like I couldn't settle down -- because I needed to be saved! (I told MY therapist to call my son's therapist and tell him to leave me alone!)
So, yes, I would save it is probable that most people experience different levels of attachment with the different parts of themselves.
I don't know if this is what you are looking for. Did something happen that triggered this thread?
Posted by Dinah on December 23, 2004, at 7:11:15
In reply to Would love to hear others' experiences.., posted by Pfinstegg on December 22, 2004, at 18:41:53
My experience is similar to Daisy's. Not quite, but similar. My rational side is sort of ok with going to therapy, but hates to spend the money to go so often and is terrified that I'm going to be seriously hurt when life happens, as it's bound to happen. I'm not really part of his life. So I distrust him for not discouraging the dependence. And there are things about him that I disdain.
My emotional side attached with industrial strength suction cups relatively early in therapy - long before there was any possible sensible reason to attach. Something about the way he *felt*. Not only has my emotional side successfully resisted any attempts to break the connection, but it's also the side that gets frantic and acts very badly at any hint of abandonment.
Oddly enough, the third side of me, the one rarely seen for the past twentyfive years, only showed its head for one session. It was so weird. My daydreams and fantasies started up where they had left off, and I remembered so many things I had forgotten. Anyway, that aspect of me thought my therapist was a boring humorless dullard. So go figure.
I always wonder what on earth it means.
Posted by Aphrodite on December 23, 2004, at 8:48:40
In reply to Would love to hear others' experiences.., posted by Pfinstegg on December 22, 2004, at 18:41:53
It is so, so wonderful that all parts of you are welcome and safe no matter what. I am sure he distinguishes that your younger parts are projecting things on to him and he knows not to take that personally. Still, I understand how that must cause anxiety about the safety and continuation of your therapy. Since the goal is integration, he knows that your parts are not going to be in agreement.
All of my parts see my T differently. The little girl who adores him, the teenager who thinks he's another untrustworthy grownup, the authentic adult who admires his intelligence and spirituality, and the cyncial adult who thinks he's a hack:) The problem for me is that I have a T who is often unsettled by the various attitudes at times and doesn't always distinguish these parts and often has to retract statements after something has angered or upset him. He's getting much, much better about this, though.
Posted by Aphrodite on December 23, 2004, at 8:51:42
In reply to Re: Would love to hear others' experiences.. » Pfinstegg, posted by Dinah on December 23, 2004, at 7:11:15
How fascinating! I bet that was confusing for you. Do you think you've perhaps unleashed a wild side that needs more excitement than he provides? What brought this side of you out, do you think?
Sorry, I think I just projected my own fantasies into your situation. :)
Posted by LG04 on December 23, 2004, at 11:48:24
In reply to Re: Would love to hear others' experiences.., posted by daisym on December 23, 2004, at 3:30:50
Daisy I know exactly what you mean about how you sit depending upon which ego state you are in. i never noticed it but my therapist would tell me that she knew which part was out from the moment she would see me, based on my walk, my facial expressions, and how i sat down in the chair. my whole posture/how i sit changes. my voice changes also, the intonation of words and so on. it's truly fascinating, when i step outside of myself and observe.
i sort of like having different ego states. because in some way i think everyone has them, but as a survivor of csa, i am just much more in touch with them than most people. so i can be more aware of how i am feeling about different things, understand myself better, have good instincts because i hear all my parts, and i can figure out what the different parts of me need. i also have such a fun-loving, playful, goofy little girl side to me and i'm sure if she was more integrated, i wouldn't have that as much. and i like that little girl part.
mostly they just need to learn different defense mechanisms and be able to distinguish more between present and past. that's where the adult me comes in.
LG04
Posted by Dinah on December 23, 2004, at 17:36:16
In reply to boring humorless dullard » Dinah, posted by Aphrodite on December 23, 2004, at 8:51:42
lol. "Happy Dinah" hasn't been much a part of my life. Tenth and twelth grades felt like space aliens took over my body. But I liked it. There was a very brief reappearance when I quit taking a one week trial of Risperdal. Don't ask me why.
"Happy Dinah" is very proud of her sexuality and super self confident. My husband hasn't forgiven me for tricking him into our relationship based on her. He doesn't understand that it wasn't an act and that I didn't intend to deceive him.
Sigh.
I figure she has to have been hiding in there somewhere though, because when she made her brief reappearance she brought back my daydreams. I haven't had my daydreams in ever so long now. Almost ten years. :(
Posted by annierose on December 23, 2004, at 18:39:58
In reply to Re: boring humorless dullard » Aphrodite, posted by Dinah on December 23, 2004, at 17:36:16
Daydreams ... that would be a good thread. But we would need to keep it rated PG.
Posted by LG04 on December 23, 2004, at 20:37:41
In reply to Re: Would love to hear others' experiences.. » LG04, posted by Pfinstegg on December 22, 2004, at 20:30:52
Pfinstegg, i've technically finished with therapy but i still speak to my therapist twice a week and email her as needed. (usually several times a week). so basically we are in close touch. it's a very long termination process! and it's really giving me the ability to separate at my own pace and within my own time frame. mostly it's going very well and i am amazed that i actually moved across the world from her and am surviving, even functioning, quite well! i am more and more trusting that she isn't going anywhere (emotionally) and that is helping me to let go more of the dependency. i am extremely grateful for her in my life.
i am seeing a new therapist today who specializes in CBT for anxiety disorders. so we'll see how that goes. i'm anxious about it but am trying to put it into perspective as it's only one meeting and maybe i won't even like her and if i do, well that's a good thing. but i think it will make me miss my former therapist a lot and feel very weird/sad to me. we'll see. i am trying not to predict the future, b/c sometimes i create situations that way, and also lots of times things don't turn out as i expect. i'm trying to stay more in the moment and have a "wait and see" attitude rather than panic about something that might never happen.
whew. life is hard work!
keep us updated on your situation.
LG04
Posted by Dinah on December 23, 2004, at 20:58:03
In reply to Re: boring humorless dullard, posted by annierose on December 23, 2004, at 18:39:58
PG? That would be no fun. ;)
I did have a thread a while back about losing my daydreams. It's still a terrible sorrow to me that I can't seem to bring them back.
Posted by annierose on December 23, 2004, at 21:03:56
In reply to Re: boring humorless dullard » annierose, posted by Dinah on December 23, 2004, at 20:58:03
I only tend to daydream when I am bored (which I don't get the chance to with a job, children and husband who always create things for me to do or attend to ...). But when I am lucky enough to be bored, I do daydream. Sometimes they are rated X, and not always with my husband. Sex can be over rated. Lots of time I put myself on a beach, with a good book, glass of wine with no kids around. I dream about inner peace.
Posted by Pfinstegg on December 27, 2004, at 19:34:02
In reply to Re: boring humorless dullard » Dinah, posted by annierose on December 23, 2004, at 21:03:56
Thank you, everyone - voce, Fallen, daisy, Dinah, Aphrodite and LG04. It is very helpful to hear about everyone's differing experiences with their ego states- no two are the same!
As an adult, I tend to talk and interact quite a lot with people, and am considered warm and lively. But gradually, in analysis, a really terrified, silent little girl has appeared. This girl is about 6 years old; she was beaten quite severely, and now, I know that she was molested also. She is so ashamed and guilty, and still thinks the analyst will blame her for what happened. Bit by bit, she tells him more details, and tells him, also, how lonely she is- that part is going well, I think. The part that is so hard for her is to feel comforted and secure with him. She just can't yet imagine anything that good happening, even though that's what she wants more than anything. Well, I can at least say that this is real therapy- it now feels so real and to the heart of things, even though it hurts so much. I told my analyst today that I was hoping some joy and comfort would come later, and he said "it certainly can." I guess not for a while, though!
Posted by daisym on December 27, 2004, at 20:19:55
In reply to Not exactly a real update.., posted by Pfinstegg on December 27, 2004, at 19:34:02
Sounds to me like you are realistic in your expectations of how long it might take her to feel real comfort. Trusting comes slowly, but I think comfort comes even slower. It is hard to articulate why, exactly. As you said, you just don't expect anything that good to happen. How is it that you have been able to get her to talk? Do you feel her first...or have her memories arrived, whole or in pieces? I'm also curious is your therapist asks her direct questions. Do parts of you miss him, even if it is "just" for the weekend?
I found that I was really nervous in the waiting room today, after the Holiday break. It occured to me that little daisy was sure our therapist would get his days mixed up and forget to come and get her. Even if unintentional, she was braced for a let down. So we talked about this. And we talked about being without him for 4 days. I said, "it was hard at times and I felt sad at night." He wanted to know what hard meant and why I felt sad. I didn't know really. "I missed you" didn't seem right -- it was more than that. The little pieces in me felt more fragmented and more anxious without their safe base. Plus the war between the adult-me and the "kids" intensifies without his input. I guess this is all just a continuation of the trust aspect.
I really want to talk to someone besides my therapist about what is happening in therapy -- I guess I'm trying to validate my experience and understand it more. It feels really important right now, for some reason. I hope we can continue this thread.
Daisy
Posted by Pfinstegg on December 27, 2004, at 21:01:38
In reply to Re: Not exactly a real update.. » Pfinstegg, posted by daisym on December 27, 2004, at 20:19:55
She talks in sudden quick bursts- those come in the middle of the flow of free association. Her statements are really startling and unexpected to us both- they are really unconscious to me until the second they are spoken. He does often ask her questions, or speak directly to her, but only after he knows that she's really *there*. He speaks to her in an especially gentle tone, and with simple words. The feelings start getting strong a bit before the words come out-all the hard ones- fear, shame, sobbing. The thing that helps me the most is that, after he has spoken so gently to her, he encourages me to understand and comfort her, also. For a long time, I kept forgetting to do that (I wanted to forget about her), but now that I can remember better, it really does lessen my emotional distress to try to put side my competition with her and try to consciously comfort her. I think he feels that it's such a major task dealing with ego states that both he and the adult me need to do everything we possibly can.
While I would love to feel more comfort, at least I do feel much more aware of my young self, and her cut-off, until now unconscious memories. I think it has helped to decrease my anxiety and depression, at least some, and has given me more sureness and confidence in my daily life. Do you comfort any of your younger selves- or does your T. ask you to do that?
I do miss him during any breaks, although not as intensely as I did initially- but very much the way you mentioned. I have fantasies to help with that: that I (the little girl) take a walk with him in the woods behind his house- he actually encouraged me to drive by to see his house when I first expressed an interest! I know that's a bit different from some experiences others have had with house drive-bys!
Posted by Fallen4MyT on December 27, 2004, at 22:13:03
In reply to Not exactly a real update.., posted by Pfinstegg on December 27, 2004, at 19:34:02
You're a very smart lady and dress well too so I will not point out the obvious as if you do not know....I will say be patient with yourself while your emotional side catches up with the intellectual side on how T will take that news
((((( PF )))))
Posted by Pfinstegg on December 27, 2004, at 23:54:41
In reply to Re: Not exactly a real update.. » Pfinstegg, posted by Fallen4MyT on December 27, 2004, at 22:13:03
Why, thank you, Fallen! I always love a clothes compliment from you. As to driving by the house, when I said that I'd had the thought of doing it, he said, "why don't you, then?" I DID! It was a very nice house, bordering on some woods. Since then, it's become the location for the dreams and fantasies of the little girl who's in desperate need of a *good* father. I didn't know that was going to be the result of my visit, but I think he did!
Posted by Fallen4MyT on December 28, 2004, at 0:06:01
In reply to Re: Not exactly a real update.. » Fallen4MyT, posted by Pfinstegg on December 27, 2004, at 23:54:41
I bet he did too...he seems from what I recall a rather inightful dude...you can tell him I called him DUDE hahaha..he will know me by the clothes gig hehe....anyhow I bet he knew that would be another connection and I am guessing you will keep building on it. What color you gonna wear new time ;)
Posted by daisym on December 28, 2004, at 0:35:33
In reply to Re: Not exactly a real update.. » daisym, posted by Pfinstegg on December 27, 2004, at 21:01:38
I've had dreams where my therapists asks me to care for my youngerself and I refuse. I guess I'm still mad at her for the upset she brings and how strong she is sometimes. There have been a few occasions where I have felt sorry for her and once or twice I've felt protective. More typically we war in my head over what she wants to say and how much she wants to come to therapy.
I think something has shifted again for me because I'm questioning two things. One is the frequency of contact -- I'm not really concerned with making him sick of me (though that sometimes flares up)like I use to be. Instead I think that I shouldn't want what I know I want -- does that sentence make any sense? My therapist tells me we are doing really deep work so it makes sense to him that I feel the need to see him a lot. After all, who else are you going to talk to about all of this?
The second thing is that we are beginning to change how we relate to each other. I feel myself forcing honesty a bit more instead of retreating into silence. And he doesn't let me brush him off with "nothing or no where." "Where are you going?" "No where." "hmm...seems to me you slipped away...I'd really like to hear where you went." That usually adds the security I need to tell him about something. But I know he is careful. The adult always understands what he is doing but sometimes little daisy gets upset and feels pushed.
I think I'm worried about where we go next. Everytime I think we've explored all the dark corners, something else creeps out. And I don't know about your six-year-old, but for me, talking about the beatings is so much harder than the csa. I feel like it shouldn't be...but somehow it feels like a huge betrayal and paints such an ugly picture. And the fear...I can actually feel it run up my neck and into my hair. I labeled it "live fear" because it is an old fear that lives on very strongly.
The worst thing for me is that I feel so much tension and anxiety in my "real" life -- and I'm aware that it is old. But it is my filter right now and I find myself more depressed than usual. Perhaps this is the sadness I was trying to tell him about today. It is about more than a separation but it is as simple as that too. I think the younger parts of me are so sad that they didn't know him "then" and that we missed so much. Before I started all this, I didn't know I could even have the depth of feelings I have now. I'm still not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing.
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