Posted by cricket on November 30, 2005, at 14:02:26
In reply to Re:, posted by alexandra_k on November 30, 2005, at 3:13:07
> and i don't know what i'm saying...
> i feel sad. fragile i guess.
> life is funny sometimes.
> funny strange not funny ha ha.
> and i wish i was a stronger person
> more resiliant
> could let things roll of my back
> could deal with things without letting them affect me so very much along the way
> could deal with things without going off along the way
>
> but i guess thats just not the person i am
> though i wish it was
> i wish it was
>
> and i wish i didn't need people
> i fought that for so long
> i was determined
> i thought that was the way it was for everyone
> i guess i never really thought about it properly
> i thought i had to find myself before i was fit to be around people
> and so i isolated myself
> and one can't find oneself there
> one cannotAlex, I don't know what to say about so much of this other than I feel like I wrote it, which means I will probably be completely off base with what I write but I want to try anyway.
Isolation yes - You can't find yourself in isolation. You need others like mirrors maybe. And maybe that's what therapy should be about at least for people who have been relationship deprived. But I think that's hard.
> and when people talk about that
> about how that is what you need to do
> then they do not understand what i mean by isolation
> because you cannot find yourself there you cannot
> and i see now that in a lot of ways i made things worse
> because like how sensory deprivation brings on hallucinations
> isolating yourself so much from people
> (not leaving the house for days...)
> brings on hallucinations
> and i guess i was making myself sicker
> and thought i was finding myself
> doing the right thing.
>
Yes, I've done that too. Both my husband and son were away for a week this summer and I actually did the stupid thing of taking a week off from work and staying in the house alone. I craved that time, I wanted it and yet I actually felt worse off.
> snapping out of it a bit
> but still wary still wary
> and now i appreciate more how different life is
> life was for most people
> for other people
> and sometimes i hardly fit in
> like a human being
> because things were so very different for me in a lot of ways
> but then i suppose one can focus on difference
> and one can focus on similarities
> and i guess i'm human after all.
>
Yes, I guess we are :-) But I know what it's like to feel so completely alien ... that to speak or interact - just not possible.> i remember what the skills leaders said in dbt
> about how if there were no emotions then people wouldn't do anything...
> there wouldn't be any motivation...
> there wouldn't be any reason.
> a person wouldn't save a child from a burning building if there weren't any emotions
> but that is simply false.
> drives motivate but most often do not constitute emotions
> i don't have an emotion that motivates me to drink
> i have a drive of thurst
> and it isn't about having no emotions anyway...
> its about having no pain
> that is the point.
> and as for having pain...
> there is really no reason why pain has to feel so damned painful
> it could have been a little noise like an alarm clock and it would have functioned just as well
> there is no reason whatsoever for pain to hurt
> and there is no reason whatsoever for emotions to be painful
> it is just that they are.
> and i don't like it and you can have this back now thanks...
>
Yes, early in the week I was in the same place - this life is too much pain - I don't want it anymore. I want it over with already. Not that I was seriously contemplating suicide or anything but every day just felt like a another pain to endure, just something to manage to get through somehow or other.> but i suppose half the trouble is in thinking too much...
I don't know. Is it thinking too much? Or feeling too much?
Sometimes when we're in that thinking place we can banter back and forth but then I think we slip into that feeling place and all of it comes crashing down.
> over analysing...
> i probably talk myself into more than is good for me
> i probably think about things more than is good for me
> but...
> i guess its part of who i am
> and while i wish the pain would stop
> i don't really have the desire to think less
> i don't really have the desire to do more
> to join the gym
> to play a sport
> to find a hobby
> i guess these things just aren't important to me.
>
Well I don't think you think too much, that's for sure. Your thinking has helped me so many times.It seems that many people just busy their lives away. I need to buy this dress and plan for that party and get that promotion at work and have that baby and organize that closet and go on that cruise and fix that boyfriend/husband and go on that diet and change my hair. And when they're not doing all of that maybe they are veging out in front of the TV or chatting about all of the above with friends.
And I guess you and I, we don't do those things in that way. As something to fill up a life. And so here we are trying to figure out what we are doing and why we are doing it and what's it all about anyway.
> i don't know what i'm saying.
> i feel flat
> i think i probably just need to...
> get some sleep.
>
> but sometimes it does seem like i am split
> my head whirling in one direction
> dispassioned
> relentless
> and my emotions so very intense on the other
> i thought it was about that...
> i thought that was how i was supposed to master my emotions
> through logic
> through reason
> if emotions are responses to irrational thinking
> then the cure must be in rational thinking
> in logic
> so i learned logic
> i did
> and i learned (as best one can it is jolly hard)
> how to translate ordinary english into logic
> and problems...
> problems with indeterminacy of translation
> and indeterminacy of meaning
> and was this helping or missing the point?
> logic is the study of the structure of arguments
> is it illogical arguments that gets me into such an emotional state?
> missing the point...
>
> its not a matter of logic it is not
> and you can't conquer emotions via reason
> you cannot
> its in the indeterminacies
> the indeterminicies of translation
> between english and predicate calculus
> between the state of the world and ones description of the world in language or thought
>
> but the trouble with indeterminacy is that it is indeterminate
> and there isn't THE answer
> except that the problem was the pain
> the intense emotions
> and thus if it is those you want to change...
> you need to adopt the interpretation with the highest probablility of leaving one feeling okay...
> and while there is indeed an irreducible element of indeterminacy...
> there are reality constraints
> and one can't distort things too much
> well...
I'm not sure I follow all that, but I guess I understand a bit more - why you are so good at thinking things through - why you study philosphy.> not unless one is able to supress reality testing altogether...
> which one should probably not aim to do
> (and i've found i can't if i try so it is pointless thinking on it)
>
Yeah :-) and I guess if we're aiming for functional suppressing reality testing is not a good idea.> and the answer...
>
> how can i live my life seeking the answer to the question 'what is wrong with me and what do i need to do to fix it?'
> but i am...
> and i don't imagine i'll ever stop
> till its over
> and then the answer won't even matter anymore.But what if nothing is wrong? What if there is just a lot wrong with the world? What if it's just that we're different? What if it's just that most people have figured out how to keep everything, all the dark demons, at bay, and we've just not figured that out? And the way that we see some others doing it with busyness and superficial relationships is not at all appealing? What if our intense feelings are not a defect?
I don't know. Maybe what I hated about therapy was its insistence on the past determining my present. What is wrong with me is that I had no love or care at a developmentally crucial stage. I hate that statement. I want no part of it. Not sure exactly why. Something else to think about.
I hope you're not offended by my using "we" so much in this post. I really did feel so much in the same place this week. ((((Alex)))))
poster:cricket
thread:575153
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/write/20051022/msgs/583733.html