Posted by ElaineM on February 5, 2007, at 23:56:32
In reply to Re: sorry E, posted by Karolina on February 5, 2007, at 0:38:20
>>>>>>I guess your situation just has me thinking about things from a different perspective.
I can completely understand. I know you're in a confusing position yourself now too. Plus, I welcome other perspectives - I have blinders that don't let me see other sides until someone else points them out.
>>>>>so I can’t imagine ever getting flowers from him, dinner, movies, etc. That would just seriously mess with my head, because I feel so strongly about him. But I don’t know if that’s the case for you; if you feel a strong emotional/physical attraction to him, or if it just feels more like somebody that’s there for you right now.
He's given flowers three times (they were all for special occasions -- graduation, my birthday, our anniversary). I've never had dinner with him before (though I did have lunch with him a few times last spring/summer). He used to talk about doing more alot last summer (we did the odd easy "socially" thing) but then kinda let the idea drop. It only started up again over the Christmas break. He's asked me a few times to try to go to a movie, but he said it was like an exposure therapy (during the summer). Now, he says it would be a way for me to show I'm trying to be "closer" to him. He thinks "closeness" is really important. And when I feel bad when I can't reciprocate verbally, I consider doing these other gestures of friendship.
But to answer the question part, I don't have a physical attraction at all. Infact, I can barely stand to be around any men right now. I was scared of him too, up until learning of his last two T meetings. Now I don't feel scared because I know that his T will protect him from his confusing emotions, and me from the him that believes in them. I do however feel a strong emotional connection to him. I need his presense - I need his human-ness. I care about him. I want him to not feel pain or sadness. I'm honored that he thinks I'm a good person :'). I'm grateful he helps me with medical bureaucracy. I'm glad to not be alone in my life. I still have twinges of fear, and sometimes hate, and lesser times, disgust, but I'm sure that comes from some of the other men who've marked my life. I'm trying very hard not to make him the scapegoat for others violence, just because he's a man, or an older man. It's hard, but I hate being prejudged because of my psych history, so I don't want to prejudge him [any more than I already do wihtout knowing] just because of his gender.
>>>>>>>I just hope he isn’t holding you back from real relationships with other men.
New years, he did say he'd be jealous if I went out, and just ended up with another guy. But he didn't say to not go. The only other time was just over a year ago I was seeing someone who was much younger, and who took me out on my first "real dates" ever. He was young and dear and knew all my crap, and understood, and didn't hold it against me. [he walked me to my T's office a few times] And T used to say that he respected him for being a man and going after what he wanted. He said he envied him. But he still supported me seeing him. As far as men now....that's not even a remote possibility. I'm too sick. THere's not a long line for hermit, invalid, social phobes. *weak smile* But I don't think I could handle being near (emotionally, or physically) anyone right now.
>>>>>That he isn’t trying to seduce you by saying kind things to you and giving you gifts, and then making you feel like you can’t meet other guys because it might make him angry or feel “hurt”.
I worry about that. I mean, I know he's lost the females in his life, and sometimes he says or does things that freaks me out. But he's also coming to terms with all this, by going to T. So I have to trust that he only has pure motives. I need to trust him. I *need* to trust in someone. Part of me is always talking myself out of fear, sadness and anxiety. Half the time I don't know where the self-talk ends, and the raw feelings begin. So I do still get scared by thoughts like what you've said. That's part of why I couldn't hug him today after all. I was too afraid he'd smell my hair, and then it'd all be ruined
>>>>>>> but I just wonder if it’s really best he is telling you all that.
Technically, originally, probably not. But it's so far beyond the appropriateness of personal disclosure now. He see's me as his friend. I am his friend. He talks to me in that role. He makes comments about how it's strange that I'm like another therapist to him -- I'm not saying it makes it right, but he truely doesn't realize the wrongness of anything he's doing/done.
>>>>>>Or maybe what I really mean is that I hope he isn’t making you pay him anymore
I'm not paying him anything.
>>>>>I know you are probably thinking I am saying this all out of jealousy but I really just care. I know I’m not sugar-coating things and maybe I should, because it’s not my intentions to offend you or upset you, but I just still see a lot of red flags from what you are saying.
Not at all. I don't think it's anything to be jealous over. AT least for me.
>>>>>>I know I’m not sugar-coating things and maybe I should, because it’s not my intentions to offend you or upset you, but I just still see a lot of red flags from what you are saying.
((((k))))) I love having both sides. I like some toughness. I wish T had more toughness. Plus, while I think I know where some red flags are, I know I miss alot too. I misjudge people all the time. I misplace trust. I've been blinded before in life by what I want to see, while being in a nightmare.
>>>>>>>where guys will lie and say anything to a girl who feels bad about herself so that they can get laid. or they will manipulate a girl who can’t stand up for herself.
I don't think he's lying. But I've made mistakes before. I don't have the greatest intuition. Plus, he knows about what happened in the past. He knows I've been hurt before. He knows about my childhood. He knows almost all of the badness that's happened to me. I think he would try hard to not be the past. I sometimes think that that's why he's been so unforcefull. HE knows I'm used to a different type of male. He knows I like pain. And I like loud. And I like being told what to say and do, and he's ALWAYS been the exact opposite to that. Earlier in our relationship, I used to ask him if he would hit me when I thought I was gonna start crying, and he said he would never be that kind of person, and he would never partake in something like that. Infact, I think that's why he wanted me to finally talk about relationships with males (this past summmer), so he could learn what to not ever be like around me.
Only a small part of me cares anyways. I kinda don't really. I never really do. Anything is usually alright. Plus, i hate myself anyways, and I'm pathetic and sick and ugly and disgusting already. So it's no big loss whatever happens. Ever.
>>>>I didn't mean for it to look like I'm being insensitive or cold about your situation. Maybe I've mistaken the meanings of some of things you've written and I'm really sorry if I have.
Please don't ever apoligize to me. ((k)) It would take a hell of alot for me to ever think I derserve one -- and this definately isn't one of those times. Saying something tough isn't wrong. I can tell it wasn't said with malice or bad intentions.
>>>>>>>I think since I’ve been treated so badly by guys in the past ... it makes me extra suspicious of guys and their intentions.
I don't have a good track record myself. I'm really sorry that happened to you. Such an isolating, devastating thing :'( ((((((K)))))) I understand. And of course you are suspicious. I'm always on-edge myself. But worst. I'm always expecting the worst. ANd give up, when I sense it. Become resigned to it. It's like paralysis. And it's bad cause it's like auto-pilot now -- hard to know it's happening. And sometimes I get really overcome by the idea that it's better to just give, than to be taken from. Because that's worse than anything :"( But he has not been aggressive. And I've done neither. ANd so I have to try and trust. Or I'll go mad. I *need* this to work out. I *need* ideas proved wrong. I need to know I don't destroy everyone I come in contact with. I need things to go back to regular, without me hurting him as a person, or killing him as a professional. This trust just has to be right.
Don't say sorry - I know you're a friend.
blove EL
poster:ElaineM
thread:729230
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20070203/msgs/730238.html