Posted by daisym on June 25, 2005, at 0:49:31
In reply to Re: Confusing Session (long) ***TRIGGERS*** » Daisym, posted by Tamar on June 23, 2005, at 17:52:08
>>>>Naturally, a little girl wants to marry her daddy. But he doesn't marry her, even though he makes her do things that are appropriate in marital relationships. He doesn't give her age-appropriate sexual pleasure (because only she can give herself age-appropriate sexual pleasure); instead he foists a frightening adult experience on her. He doesn't allow her to merge with him; instead he dominates her. He doesn't let her have an honest relationship with her mommy (because he makes her keep a secret); instead he keeps mommy for himself.
<<<<All this is true. Especially the part about the secret from mommy. The child has to then protect both parents, by holding on tightly to the secret. And there is a deep, deep secret fear that this is all her fault. So she works hard to make it up to her mommy by being as perfect as she can. But being perfect makes her attractive (an easy target)? for her dad, because if HE tells mommy, then she won't be perfect anymore. So she then tries to please daddy to keep him quiet. She believes that if she can please everyone, no one will get angry. And if this isn't complicated enough, there are sweet memories of a loving daddy who made her feel special in appropriate ways. She was his girl, and he made her feel safe and beautiful in a way her mother never did. So she goes back time and time again thinking this daddy will reappear. And since he does often enough to keep hope alive, a vicious cycle is set up. And how can the little girl help but believe that she is the one driving all of this, so she becomes afraid of her own sexual power. And there is a faint bell ringing that I can't marry someone who is already married -- daughters can't marry their fathers because they are already married. And my therapist is married -- very married -- and his wife is right next door during some of my sessions! So perhaps while I don't think I'm hyper-aware that she is there, maybe I'm more aware of this than I think
>>>>>When she has a mature body with adult sexual responses, her experience of arousal won’t be the same as a child’s. But she might still want to rewrite the story with a man who will match his sexual interest in her with an emotional commitment to her; a man who will treat her as a partner instead of as a junior; a man who will allow her to be open about her needs and who will do his best to satisfy them, instead of simply satisfying his own needs.
You used the word merge above. This strikes a cord, as well as the attempt or wish to rewrite the story with a man who will allow her to have needs and not be repulsed by them. In therapy, we've talked about merging and separating as a development task that I need to work through. I was afraid for so long to allow myself to merge with my therapist. And now that I can let myself do this, separating at the end of sessions is excruciating. It feels so empty and lonely to pull away again. Maybe the adult developmental task is to recognize my own sexual needs and be OK with having these needs. Right now I think I have no right to have these needs, or any needs for that matter. My "job" is to satisfy the other.
I think I want to have space to ask and have answered questions about sex. Truly. Like a 12 or 13 year old would. But not about the body parts, but about the emotions and the right and wrong of it. The idea that it is supposed to be mutually wanted, or consented to is totally foreign. I want to say, "is this OK?" What if I want this and not that. Does that make me weird? Or how do you negotiate a sexual request? These are things I never learned and never had any safe person to ask. So perhaps some of these feelings are an attempt to explore this side of sexual relations.
>>>>But its extra-confusing because at the same time she wants to sit on his lap while he reads to her.
Totally. Or rock together. Anything safe that is bonding. I think this is the competition of frozen age states, longing and protecting at the same time.
>>>>I imagine that having confusing feelings of transference for a therapist might involve wanting to feel sexually safe both as a child and as an adult. So perhaps the child part needs to know that it's OK to want to marry him and it’s OK to experience physical pleasure with him that doesn’t involve sexual touching; her sexual touching is best done by herself. And the adult part wants to feel sexually safe in an environment of mutual attraction, knowing he has made a commitment to love her, and to treat her with the respect that comes from common humanity, and to allow her the freedom to be honest about her sexual needs.
Perhaps this is where the physical arousal comes in. The body competing with the brain. I tell myself I can't have any needs in this area. And my body is feeling a different truth. I also think the body remembers. So when I strongly enter a younger age state, those body memories respond to anything that makes "her" (me) feel special. And the intimacy of the situation, so private, with secrets spilled out all over the ground, simply sets up this body response to a situational recreation of the past.
>>>>Yeah. That’s the weird part. It feels so very dangerous, and yet it can feel so appealing. I think it touches some very deep emotional conflicts about what we want and what we don’t want.
This is a very old conflict and I have it so many ways. I loved my dad and I didn't want to love him. I wanted to hate him. I trusted him to keep me safe and yet I also knew that I wasn't safe from him. Physically he hurt me. I didn't want that. But I wanted to snuggle close to him, to feel him. And I didn't want to tell my mom but I desperately wanted her to know. I think the conflict plays out with my husband too. I want to feel close to him, to be taken care of a little. This inevitably evolves into sex. So I have to choose having what I want and doing what I don't want to. *sigh* I bet I have a hundred more examples.
>>>>>The idea of contaminating someone by touching them is something I can relate to. I sometimes felt so very dirty that that I thought merely being in the room with my therapist would make him feel icky.
>>>>If thinking about hugging your therapist good-bye is a new thought, I really think it’s worth discussing with him. In my case I wanted to touch my therapist so desperately because the idea of his touch symbolised my acceptability. (I always think of that bible story of Jesus and the ritually unclean woman in Mark 5.) If he could touch me, perhaps he didn’t really think I was as disgusting as I imagined. I’ve said it before, but I’ll say it again because I like saying it… when he shook my hand at the end of our final session it was such a relief!
I'm going to try to talk about this. I did tell him that my feelings of self-loathing were increasing again and that I had my list made of my insecurities and things I hated about myself. I also said I wasn't prepared to tell him what was on the list. It was too dangerous, with too much potential for rejection. Why would I give him ammunition against me? He said we needed to look at the list together, slowly and very gently. I want to tell him about the size thing but I'm afraid it won't make sense to him. And no way, yet, about the hug. I sort of have this idea that I will know I'm ready to leave when I can hug him without worrying.
>>>>It does sound as if some kind of touch could be therapeutic for you. I know nothing about physical therapy or holding therapy, but I imagine that touch with someone you can trust could be a very good thing.
I keep thinking about this. I don't yet know how, but I do need to find a way to practice safe touching that does not lead to anything sexual. I realize that among the reasons that touch is so hard for me is that I have a lot of confusion about what is appropriate. Is the idea to take turns? If I get touched, how much pay back do I have to do? If someone hugs me, do I owe them a hug back? Is it OK to take and not give back when touching, or when having sex? If so, how long is it OK? 5 minutes? An hour?
>>>>>>Yeah, the ability to be seductive can be frightening. I tend to wear low-cut blouses because I have unfeasibly large breasts and I just look matronly in clothes with high necks. But I feel very uncomfortable if I think people notice my body. I tend to think I’m so unattractive that people won’t even notice my cleavage.
I almost never have on open neck stuff. I wear a lot of jewelry at the throat, pins that close my blouses. I'm not small breasted either and I wish I was! I'm very careful about what shows. I wear very nice executive clothes to work and long skirts or jeans on the weekends. I think I choose my clothes so that people will notice them instead of me. And note: shoes are safe. I have small, cute feet (size 6 1/5) and I think they are my best feature. I refuse to wear flats unless they are sandals or tennies. Keep people looking down is my motto!
>>>>I can imagine that there is a lot of conflict between wanting your therapist to want you as a woman and wanting your therapist to care for you as a little girl. I suppose it’s possible that he can do both. I mean, he can care for you as a little girl without wanting that little girl sexually, and he can find you attractive as a woman without imagining you as a little girl. It’s possible for him to see the two possibilities completely separately. Maybe your confusion comes from the csa, where adult experience is combined with a child’s identity. I think the same confusion exists in the minds of people who perpetrate abuse. Maybe the goal is to be simultaneously integrated in your identity and aware of the separation of your ego states, if that makes sense.
I'm going to have to think about this a lot. I'm sure you are right, it just feels impossible to integrate any of this. I think right now I need to learn how to listen better to the arguments in my head. I still think my therapist prefers the little girl parts of me. I know this is really old stuff.
I'm getting clearer on what I'm feeling but it is obvious I have so much work to do still. I wish I could move through this faster.
poster:daisym
thread:516928
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20050622/msgs/518499.html