Posted by JLx on May 11, 2005, at 17:50:23
In reply to RE: SAMe experiment, subsequent downswing » JLxx, posted by tealady on May 7, 2005, at 18:08:01
> I am still taking DHEA, I found 20mg a day too much...testosterone way too high take 7.5mg compounded in a mulltiB.every day or two. Not sure if it does anything much at present. I'm hoping for some oestrogen conversion..but I think its mostly testosterone. It may help with anxiety..not sure.
I have 25 mg tablets that I split into quarters. They turn out uneven so I take anywhere from 4-8 mg at a time, and not every day, kind of hit or miss. What I notice is the libido effect more than anything now, especially if I've slacked off and then take some. I've been taking it at night for no real reason, but recently read that it normally peaks in the morning so that's the time to take it. I also read that fat helps absorption.
Do you recall previous discussion about boron and estrogen? Have you ever tried taking boron?
> Well TMG is in my box I got from the US beginning of this year and I'm slowly working thru..probably next to try..although if it does donate a lot of methyl I'm not sure if I will go bad..so I'll leave it for a bit I think...unless someone can tell me why I need it., and that it'll be different to methylcobalamin in the methyl bit.I sure don't know. I thought that people there were suggesting that TMG is equivalent to SAM-e, so I thought if SAM-e helped you then that may too. BUT, there was also something there that had me thinking that if I wanted to duplicate SAM-e I should take methionine AND TMG.
> I'd previously tried MSM and Glucosamine and Chondritin and it had no effect on me. I also tried 3 months of TAURINE at 500mg first thing in morning and I didn't notice much. I think it did help a little with anxiety..not sure. I tried this after the MSM and Glucosamine. I don't think there was any overlap..or not much.
From what I remember about Larry's posts on the subject, that is not much taurine.
> After the taurine I tired SAMe..I only had 1 packet of 20 (bought from US iherb)..I only order once a year usually as postage cost is about $60:-) I'd always suspected SAMe might help and I surprised at how well it worked. Better than any antiD I'd ever tried by orders of magnitude and fairly fast too.
That was me too. Too bad you have to pay so much postage. Is there somebody else in your area that might also be using supplements that you could pool orders with? Or maybe a shop could order wholesale some of these things. Or bodybuilders. Those guys use tons of products and must get them from somewhere.
> So that, to me, indicates I'm hitting on where my problem might lie.
> I think having previously just taken the MSM and Glucosamine and taurine I might have had enough methyl stuff in my body?I don't think MSM is actually a methyl donor. Neither are glucosamine and taurine, are they?Don't see them on Sahelian's page on methyl donors: http://www.mind-boosters.com/chapter_10.html
> I go real bad on methylcobalamin. I tried this about 3 years ago..for about 18 mths.
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20030903/msgs/261999.html
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20030903/msgs/262127.html
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20030903/msgs/263744.html
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20030903/msgs/263813.html
> this thread :-) LOL
> never could figure that one out. I occasionally take a sublingual methylcobamin (I get those from the Us too)..but it always has a negative effect,..increases tingling, very wiped out, and slight colouring of palms, soles of feet. Feels a bit like capillaries getting affected somehow. But I seem to go Ok on dibencozide sublingual (that's the other b12 without the methyl bit). It's in http://www.iherb.com/coen.html . This is also a favourite of mine. Its a sublingual with all the coenzymated forms of B1, B2, B3, B6, B12 as well as B5, folate etc. I think its a good cover in case there is something I'm missing somewhere. I take these every 3 days or so..trying to make it last. (anther from the US). Doesn't provide any methyl ..and doesn't affect me negatively either. I can't say I notice a big positive either...I just take for insurance I guess.That's weird that methylcobalamin would give you that reaction, but not SAM-e, suggesting it's not the methyl... or what?
> I'm pretty sure magnesium works by overloading the system and therefore changing the equilibrium..driving out whatever was there before and replacing with magnesium. Its much the same idea as water softeners..which replace the calcium or magnesium with sodium in the water..which feels softer and washes clothes better but is bad for the heart(an unexplined huge increse in an area where they used water softening ). The calcium/mag ions in the water gets withdrawn from the water and sodium ions the filter replaces the calcium/mag. You can "recharge' the falter by reverse flushing with strong sodium chloride..putting heaps in to change the equilibrium, thus flushing out the calcium/mag and replacing by sodium again..so you can reuse it. The balance(equilibrium) changes by overloading.
> That's how magnesium works too I think..when you feel better after taking large doses.
> it seemed to work for me when I went too high in iron last year. Took heaps of magnesium for any effect..but I think it musta lowered the iron and replaced whatever with magnesium..not sure where..but it was a relief.I was reading Dr. Slagle's comments on magnesium again recently and noticed that she says,
"Excess sugar, caffeine, carbohydrates, low dietary protein, prolonged fasting, general malnutrition, chronic diarrhea, vomiting, excess zinc, vitamin D & calcium contribute to Mg deficiency. Aluminum, fluoride, & phosphate interfere with absorption." http://www.thewayup.com/newsletters/081501.htm
I've been routinely taking 525 mg magnesium at night, and sometimes just lately another 125 mg during the day because I've been getting cramps in my feet and legs. Which seemed odd all of a sudden as I've been ok on this dose of mg for months. I took just a little calcium (only about 40 mg) with it a couple nights and am sure I was grinding my teeth those nights because I woke up with a particular kind of headache. I haven't been this calcium sensitive lately so that was surprising. The relatively small amount of TMG I took yesterday that make me irritable seemed odd too. It all now sounds like I need more magnesium. Perhaps it is the extra Vit D. I'm going to try taking more mg.
> That's why I was once wondering why the heck you needed so much magnesium...not that I didn't believe you, just I wondered what your problem may have been. I think you thought too much calcium?
Yes, definitely. I seemed to need less the longer I took it.
> >
In this previous thread, http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20031218/msgs/292716.html, I quoted:
> >
> > "The sulfur-containing amino acids (SAAs) are methionine, cysteine, cystine, homocysteine, homocystine, and taurine. ... Methylsulfonylmethane (MSM), a volatile component in the sulfur cycle, is another source of sulfur found in the human diet. Increases in serum sulfate may explain some of the therapeutic effects of MSM, DMSO, and glucosamine sulfate. Organic sulfur, as SAAs, can be used to increase synthesis of S-adenosylmethionine (SAMe), glutathione (GSH), taurine, and N-acetylcysteine (NAC). MSM may be effective for the treatment of allergy, pain syndromes, athletic injuries, and bladder disorders. Other sulfur compounds such as SAMe, dimethylsulfoxide (DMSO), taurine, glucosamine or chondroitin sulfate, and reduced glutathione may also have clinical applications in the treatment of a number of conditions such as depression, fibromyalgia, arthritis, interstitial cystitis, athletic injuries, congestive heart failure, diabetes, cancer, and AIDS."
> >
> > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11896744&dopt=Abstract> >
> > I STILL don't understand methylation and how these different things affect it, such as the sulfur connection. But perhaps if you tell us of any previous experiments with the other related things such as B12, folate, TMG and how much calcium/magnesium, B6 and such you are currently taking, somebody can figure it out.
>
>
> me either :-)) Like I said back in the pold posts..I still don't get this methylation stuff :-)It sounds like taurine, glucosamine and MSM are sulfur which can be used to increase synthesis of SAM-e, which is not the same thing even as a precursor. When you took SAM-e then, it was a unique experience. I think I would definitely try the TMG.
JL
poster:JLx
thread:476058
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20050510/msgs/496556.html