Posted by Lorraine on August 3, 2001, at 12:28:54
In reply to Re: jumping in » Lorraine, posted by Elizabeth on August 2, 2001, at 23:47:39
> > > Interesting issue that you raised was the hypomania and I suspect that I have had that pretty regularly throughout my life. Jumping into projects with a flurry of energy, zeal and racing thoughts only to leave them half completed.
>
> That sounds to me more like ADD behaviour, actually.Well, I do have ADD like cognitive issues now clearly. But what I'm talking about above just involves a level of energy, exhilerating, and exhaltation of self that seems odd. I mean I have come to "distrust" myself when I have a sudden interest in something. My husband distrusts it also and it has become somewhat of a joke among my friends "oh, that's just Lorraine, first she reads the 30 books on the subject, then...."
>
> > After I was on Neurontin for a while, I told my pdoc that I thought that I was thinking less circularly (as in running around in circles) and that I was doing more "productive" work.
>
> That's very cool. Perhaps your problems focussing are related to anxiety or seizurelike activity. TLE often does weird things to people -- globally, not just when they have a seizure.Yeah, who knows "why" it's working--it's not clear that it matters really.
> > >That was when I'd been taking Nardil on and off and was having really bad mood swings which led my pdoc to believe I might be bipolar (the moods resembled dysphoric or mixed mania -- MAOI withdrawal is *really* hellish).
A skipped dose of Effexor did this to me and withdrawal from it was really, really awful. Is there anything to alleviate MAOI withdrawal if it comes down to that? I had no withdrawal from Moclobemide by the way or selegiline. But then the stimulants and anti-convulsants during the wash out may have just been the ticket. I'm off the Adderal now too, no withdrawal.
> > > I think I might have an acquired attention disorder secondary to depression (I did have some ADD-like traits as a child but I probably wouldn't have met the diagnostic criteria). This is really hard because being able to think clearly and focus has always been very important to me. I sure hope that it can be corrected or at least treated.
There is also something called depression induced dementia, which has a lot of cognitive impairment features as you would expect. One cool thing about my pdoc is that he really cares about cognitive impairment. So if I say that a drug is dummying me down, he'll switch it out immediately. Cognitive impairment is really awful I think especially if your life has revolved much around your intellectual activities. It must be distressing to you. My SIL--who believes that depression is all in your mind--tells me to just sit with the depression and let it take it's course and quit fighting it. I tell her it is like asking someone to just sit with Alzheimers.
> > > I got my degree (bachelor of science in math) in '97. I've been taking undergraduate classes with the goal of applying to medical school. (I didn't take organic chemistry, biology, etc. in college. Biology became a required course for the class that started after me, and I had placed out of the chemistry requirement by taking AP chemistry, but that wasn't enough to satisfy medical schools so I had to retake it.)Very cool. I'm impressed. When my daughter was entering kindergarten she said "my god, I have 13 years before I am out of school". At the time, I was getting my second graduate degree and told her that I had 23 years of education. Although, I think I'm finally burned out. I realized, for one thing, that I learn better by reading rather than listening to lectures--so I was always the student buying supplemental text books if I didn't understand a professor. And, I think the concept of memorizing is really abhorent to me right now. Perhaps it will pass. I may need a new career and education might be required.
> > > I brood about the future a lot. Anyway, I'm not really depressed right now (there's no question in my mind that the desipramine is working), just feeling anergic and having some trouble concentrating. My general mood is very much improved.
I'm very happy for you. The Desipramine seems to be a lucky ticket for you. (although i know you research it before taking it). I hope the blood levels prove ok. The ECT next step sounds right to me--plus they have that monitor that you strap on that monitors your heart for 24 hours for irregularities.
> > > She doesn't accept the idea that it's a disease, and she loathes the thought of taking medications (for some reason that I'm not quite clear on -- she knows I take them, and she has a brother who takes them too).
There is a degree of acknowledgment about mental illness and our lack of control over the disease that comes from taking a drug--plus all the stigma associated with it. My SIL believes that people who are mentally ill are self indulgent and that they take drugs as "cosmetic mood brighteners". Acknowledging mental illness comes with a lot of baggage in this society.
>
> Hmm. Well, [trying atenolol] might be worth it if the autonomic activation causes you too much discomfort.I'll keep it in mind
> > > A shame spiral for me was a hole that I would fall in precipitously whenever my old shame injury got bumped up against in the normal day to day living. >
> Ahh, I can understand that. (Can I ask whence the scars? I don't think I've seen you mention that before.)3d degree burns over 1/3 of my body (thighs and upper abdomine) when I was 8.
> > > My dad's a professor (both my parents are) -- his field is philosophy and history of science. It's not light reading. < g >
Doesn't sound like it, but it does sound like it is right up my husband's alley. He loves this stuff.
> > > I was 15 or 16. It is awful because it is a breach of trust between a parent and child, but the abuse was pretty mild.
>
> Small comfort. Still, it's probably less damaging if it happened when you were older.Yes, and it was mild, I don't believe he ever touched me. It was all about his self-pleasuring really.
> You think so? Hmm. I don't know too much about dystonias, but that doesn't sound like any one that I've heard about.certainly not the familial dystonia, which is incapacitating. I don't know--I've just read a lot about "muscle" tension and cramps being associated with meds. I get muscle cramps depending on my meds also. My muscle strength (during workouts) varies remarkably depending on my meds.
>
> > > FWIW, the time that I was first diagnosed with depression (when I was 14), I was having very bad headaches. Prozac did away with them, so I have to credit it for that, at least.Some vascular relaxation thing or muscle relaxant type of action maybe.
> > > It isn't medication induced -- it's been a chronic thing (started in fall '95), and there is a mechanical problem that probably contributes to it (local steroid injection made it go away for about a week). Nardil did make it go away (so does buprenorphine, of course). Soma works sometimes, but it's not as reliable. It also waxes and wanes in intensity. There are probably multiple factors contributing. But anyway, the fact that centrally acting drugs sometimes alleviate pain doesn't necessarily mean that the pain is "psychogenic." I did track my back pain for a while but couldn't find any correlations other than that it went away completely when I was taking Nardil.
Interesting take on the issue. That the meds medicate a physiological problem. My chiropractor always said my back aches were mechanical in nature. But my experience seems to prove otherwise. I guess the chicken and the egg question (do the med alleviate the symptoms or cause them) becomes apparent when you are off meds entirely. I haven't really tried this (for obvious reasons)< g >
> > > Desoxyn, you mean? That's cool that your pdoc was willing to consider it. I think most of them shy away because of its reputation.
Yeah, I'm pretty high on him right now because of his ability to think outside the box--the fact that he let me do the 3 day wash out between MAOIs, that he was willing to try Moclobemide by writing rxs for a Canadian Pharmacy and the fact that he is willing to try meds fairly aggressively has me feeling pretty good about him right now.
> > > I took Cylert for a while in college. It was pretty helpful. Unfortunately it's been "black-boxed" -- the labelling contains a big, conspicuous warning at the top about potential hepatotoxicity -- so doctors have been less willing to prescribe it.
Yeah, I know. By the way, do you have Jensen's book--I find it really useful.
>
> [re your son]
> > He has a learning disability (dyslexia) and possibly undiagnosed ADD sort of stuff.
>
> I think that a lot of different childhood disorders all get lumped together as "ADD."True. Amen identifies 6 types of ADD, but I think some of these are not ADD truly.
> > I've thought of having him formally evaluated, but my therapist feels it's not necessary. (and, in truth, i would be soooo reluctant to medicate a teen in part because they don't have a sexual identity or knowledge so if a med affects their sexuality they will just assume that that is "who they are"
>
> May I offer a counterexample? I was 14 when I started taking Prozac, and while Prozac didn't cause me much difficulty, I most definitely did have a sexual identity by that age.
>
elizabeth, this is really very helpful to me to hear. also, i suppose there's the point of developing an identity and coping skills of someone who is depressed as opposed to healthy?
> > > My niece is 15 and was diagnosed OCD and put on Luvox. I think it was necessary for her to be medicated, but I do worry--especially about her sexuality given the side effects of SSRIs generally.
>
> Is she doing CBT too? That's supposedly very effective for OCD.No, she's not doing CBT. I've suggested it, but the logistics have been unmanagable because her mother (who had lost control over her completely) sent her to live with her father (who is more structured in his discipline approach) and to a smaller school (10 kids per class). She completely flunked out of 8th grade, 3 F's and 2 D's (in drill team and PE). So the problem had become an emergency.
Good luck on the Desipramine retest.Lorraine
poster:Lorraine
thread:67742
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010731/msgs/73335.html