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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 49 to 73 of 157. Go back in thread:
Posted by Kath on July 15, 2008, at 9:19:11
In reply to Meeting scheduled for Wed morning, posted by TexasChic on July 14, 2008, at 19:12:15
http://www.howtohaveabullyfreeworkplace.com/?gclid=COjagtGJwpQCFQJtFQodwhFjFg
Just saw this as an onscreen 'ad'.
Putting it here in case it's of help or interest.
xoxo Kath
Posted by Dinah on July 16, 2008, at 14:13:50
In reply to Meeting scheduled for Wed morning, posted by TexasChic on July 14, 2008, at 19:12:15
And hoping it went well.
Posted by Kath on July 16, 2008, at 14:30:22
In reply to I'm thinking of you » TexasChic, posted by Dinah on July 16, 2008, at 14:13:50
Posted by TexasChic on July 16, 2008, at 21:42:05
In reply to I'm thinking of you » TexasChic, posted by Dinah on July 16, 2008, at 14:13:50
They just blew off everything I said. My bosses boss completely flipped sides from the last time I talked to him. He said I was just not doing as well as the others in my position, even one who had been there a shorter time than me. I started to say something because the others in my position have both been there over 10 years, but he interrupted me and said he wasn't going to get into that. I also tried to point out that my boss had never brought up any of this stuff I'm supposedly sucking at until about 2-3 months ago (the HR lady even made a point of saying that when I met with her), but my boss said she HAD written stuff like that on my review and she could show it to me. At that point I didn't even want to continue. I knew she would just twist something to fit what she wanted. And believe me, I was sick to death of both of them by that time.
Its ridiculous because everybody who works with me and actually knows something about what I do (which believe me, my boss doesn't) thinks I do a better than average job. I'm the one who everybody comes to with questions for crying out loud!
As for the ADD stuff, they said if it interfered with my job then I needed to find another one. I didn't even get to the part about her putting things in writing. At the end I was just like, okay, then I have nothing else to say. Then I got to work until 9PM tonight. Nice, huh? I cried the whole last 3 hours (nobody else was there - my boss was in the building but elsewhere).
I have a doctor's appointment first thing in the morning, maybe she'll say I'm unfit for work. Then later I have an appointment with HR (that I made). I don't expect anything to come of it, but I figured I could at least tell her what happened at the meeting, and maybe find out what's going on with the investigation. I also called the employee assistance line that is a benefit from my insurance, which provides three free visits with a T. I could choose pretty much whoever took my insurance. So I have an appointment on Saturday.
I'd still like to go to my bosses bosses boss. He's really nice and seems to like me. But I just don't think I can go through it again. I am really bottoming out here. I'm not in the mind to do myself hard, but I'm feeling really bad.
I didn't talk to my coworker who works with me under my boss and she didn't talk to me. I think she just knew to leave me alone. Eventually we'll have to talk since we work together, but I just don't know what I'll end up saying.
Time to start the heavy duty job hunt I guess. Did I mention that I've applied to over 50 jobs online in the last month and a half? Maybe something will come through for me.
-T
Posted by TexasChic on July 16, 2008, at 22:04:03
In reply to Thanks, it went terribly, posted by TexasChic on July 16, 2008, at 21:42:05
I thought my title came out like, gee thanks, which I didn't mean for it to.
-T
Posted by TexasChic on July 16, 2008, at 22:13:27
In reply to I'm thinking of you » TexasChic, posted by Dinah on July 16, 2008, at 14:13:50
I think its time to go smoke one of my stale *ss cigarettes. I save them for stressful times and believe it or not the pack is really old. But I think tonight qualifies.
I'm never going to be able sleep tonight!
-T
Posted by Dinah on July 16, 2008, at 22:20:26
In reply to Re: I'm thinking of you, posted by TexasChic on July 16, 2008, at 22:13:27
I'm so sorry. :(
Posted by TexasChic on July 16, 2008, at 22:37:14
In reply to ((((((((((TC))))))))))))), posted by Dinah on July 16, 2008, at 22:20:26
Thank you Dinah. I'm just so sick of it all. Just everything.
-T
Posted by Kath on July 17, 2008, at 14:36:12
In reply to Thanks, it went terribly, posted by TexasChic on July 16, 2008, at 21:42:05
Oh hunnee,
I am so very sorry. WHAT an ordeal. I would have thought there'd be an HR person at the meeting. Maybe there was & I misunderstood.
I wish you could go to the next level boss up.
Oh TC.
(((((((((((((((((((((you))))))))))))))))))))))
much much love, Kath
PS - let me know if there's anything I can do. I'll "hold light" for you for sure.
Posted by Phillipa on July 17, 2008, at 19:51:40
In reply to Re: Thanks, it went terribly » TexasChic, posted by Kath on July 17, 2008, at 14:36:12
T me too so sorry it went poorly any responses from the online job search? Love Phillipa
Posted by TexasChic on July 17, 2008, at 20:11:11
In reply to Re: Thanks, it went terribly » TexasChic, posted by Kath on July 17, 2008, at 14:36:12
Thanks yall. Actually its when she writes me up that there will be an HR person present. This was a meeting I asked for. Even though I feel she is the problem, I thought some things may have been exasperated by the ADD stuff. So I thought by sharing it and asking for her help, it might be a situation in which she could still feel superior, by helping poor little me. Obviously THAT didn't happen, but I still think it was a good plan.
Today was weird, she was really mean & I cried the whole first half, but after I had a meeting with HR that I had requested, I realized what was worrying me the most was the thought that I might do something wrong and get fired on the spot. But it turns out it doesn't quite work that way. It all has to go through HR. So after that, I felt way less vunerable, and even though she totally bitched me out for something, I was like, okay, okay, I'll never do it again, okay. THEN weirdly enough, she started being nice again! I was like, whatever, psycho bitch.
I still don't know how long I can hang in there. Although I feel fine now, this morning I had to fight the urge to walk out. It was a terrible, hopeless, all encompassing panicky feeling. I felt I just might go running down the halls screaming or something.
Oh, the thing I got in trouble for I had written an email to the next level boss but hadn't sent it because I wanted to take a few days to think about it, but while I was reading it over she came up behind me! I don't know if she say who it was to or if she just thought I was reading personal email, but she said she, "Highly suggests I not do something like that again". So I went ahead and sent it. I really don't know what I've got to lose at this point. I mean, I'm not doing anything wrong, I'm following the chain of command. And I really just told him about the problems I was having and asked if he would give me some advice. So we'll see what happens. The drama continues... God, what stupid boring storyline this would be!
-T
Posted by Kath on July 17, 2008, at 20:33:02
In reply to So, so today, posted by TexasChic on July 17, 2008, at 20:11:11
Hang in there hun & maybe try to read up on how to best deal with bullies.
I think that link I posted above had some free advice apart from buying the book.
I think the more matter-of-fact & less upset you are with her the better probably.
love, Kath
PS - keep us up to date hun. We care. xoxo K
Posted by TexasChic on July 17, 2008, at 20:34:01
In reply to So, so today, posted by TexasChic on July 17, 2008, at 20:11:11
Posted by TexasChic on July 17, 2008, at 22:28:57
In reply to Re: So, so today » TexasChic, posted by Kath on July 17, 2008, at 20:33:02
> Hang in there hun & maybe try to read up on how to best deal with bullies.
> I think that link I posted above had some free advice apart from buying the book.I read that link and it described me to a T!!! I actually copied part of it and emailed it to a friend because it stated how I felt so well.
> I think the more matter-of-fact & less upset you are with her the better probably.
I know that's the right way to handle it, I'm just worried about my emotions getting away from me. Everybody tells me the way I hold things in is really bad. I just get so upset sometimes I can't find any words. Also, I think it dates back to my childhood there was a lot of out of control yelling and fighting going on. I guess deep down I'm afraid of turning into that. Oh well, more things to discuss with the T I guess!
> PS - keep us up to date hun. We care. xoxo KThank you, that means a lot to me.
Posted by TexasChic on July 18, 2008, at 17:09:50
In reply to Re: So, so today, posted by TexasChic on July 17, 2008, at 22:28:57
Yep, got the write up today. Of course, they call it an "opportunity", which is pretty hard not to laugh in their faces about. I completely kept my cool and DID NOT CRY!!! It was hard to sit through though, because it was all just so ridiculous. One of the things she wrote as an example of my misusing my time was how yesterday she came up and saw that email I had written to the big boss. She said I took 45min to an hour writing a personal email on work time. I think I may have actually laughed then. I said, "First of all, the email was to --- --- (big bosses name), and second of all, I had written it at home and forwarded it to myself. I was waiting for my computer to finish processing something, so I pulled it up and was reading it over when she came up behind my back and saw it". Her boss made a gesture that seemed to mean, oh, well that's okay then. I didn't point out then that she had obviously completely fabricated how I was writing it for 45min to an hour. I probably should have, but I was just trying to get through the damn thing.
I went on then to ask for time limits for when she requested I pull up a picture (something she had said I was inefficient at). They all kind of just looked at me. I said, if I'm going to be judged on my efficiency, then I need an actual time limit. The HR lady said,"Nobody is going to be standing over you with a stop watch, this is a matter of how well you know your job." I said, "Yes, and if I'm to judged on something so vague as 'efficiently', then I need a time limit in order to defend myself". Finally my bosses boss said, "Okay, what do you want, 5 minutes?" We both looked at my boss, and I think maybe for once in my life I had stumped her - she just shrugged. So as I was writing it down I said, "Okay, then! 5 minutes for locating photos". This is a ridiculously large amount of time for this task, so it was hard to keep a smirk off my face.
Next I addressed the other thing she said I didn't know, which were our editorial rules, which are a 2 page list of rules we are all supposed to go by. I said. "Okay, she says I don't know my editorial rules, but some things she says are in the rules, aren't". She said in a short clipped voice, "Like what! Give an example!" I said, I cant think of an example, I just know that many, many times when she says I have missed a rule, I go back and look but am unable to find it on the sheet. So she grudgingly said she would write up some common rules. I should have pushed to get something more specific, but by then I was loosing steam (keep in mind I had to first listen to my boss read two pages of idiocy talking about how horrible I was at my job before I could respond).
The last thing they said was me and my boss have to meet each week to discuss how Im doing. FINALLY, I got to leave. A few minutes later my boss came up and puts her hand on my back and says in a syrupy voice, Are you okay? I replied in a sarcastic voice, Um, yeah. Then she said, Do you need to go home? in the same voice. I said, somehow even more sarcastically, Um, NO. Then she said something like shes doing this to help me, and I said, Whatever you say. Finally she left me alone. I was livid.
I then wrote an email to the HR mediator telling her how I REALLY felt and giving the example of how my boss had lied about my spending an hour writing an email when she wasnt even there during that time (she had just come back from a meeting when she walked up behind me). I told her I would continue to do my job to the best of my ability, just as I always have, and I would always remain the professional, just as I always have. But, I said, I dont believe she has any intention of working with me, and think instead she is just going through the motions to get rid of me. I said shes a bully and a liar. But I would have no problem proving myself competent at my job, so thats what I will do.
Then I finished my work and came home, and I found myself thinking, why on earth did I stay there all this time??? I think it was pure stubbornness! I dont I just dont like to quit.
The bad thing is now I just cant imagine going back in everyday and having her act all fake nice while I try to keep a neutral face. But tomorrow I will talk to the T, and I think I will first address my anger issues about all of this (I noticed one of her specialties was anger management). Normally this isnt a problem for me, but I think as I slowly become more assertive, my anger is being uncovered as well.
Well, this is an insanely long post, so Im going to stop now. Ill end this by saying for the first time, I actually feel some excitement about a new job!
-T
Posted by TexasChic on July 18, 2008, at 21:15:18
In reply to 90 Days to get another job, posted by TexasChic on July 18, 2008, at 17:09:50
After I made my post here, I checked my email. I had gotten a response to a job I applied for in the Art division of an extremely prestigous University. They asked three questions: how soon can you start, what attracted you to this job, and if $$ (an amount of money that is substantially more than what I'm making) would be adequate! I mean, how weird is that to get this on the day I got written up. I've always wanted to work for an University, and to top it off its an Art School??? And to top THAT off its way more money??? I was like, Universe, are you KIDDING me??? Because, come on now! I don't think I could take it if you were!
Of course, I realize its highly unlikely that I will get it, not that I'm going to be all no confidence girl or anything, but for that much money, there's got to be something more to it. I've got to stay at least somewhat realistic here. But I'm going try my absolute best, and I'm going to take the weekend to come up with an exceptional response!
Thank you Universe!!!
-T
Posted by Larry Hoover on July 19, 2008, at 7:24:22
In reply to 90 Days to get another job, posted by TexasChic on July 18, 2008, at 17:09:50
I've held off commenting up until now, because frankly, I don't really have the energy to do it. And I'm not sure whether the issues I raise are even relevant (e.g. Canada does not have at-will employment, and I have no idea of the laws of Texas). However....
First off, the supervisor's act of allowing a personnel issue to be available to a worker's fellows (the leaving it on the public printer thingie) is an act of poisoning the work environment. Such matters are wholly privileged, and leaking the criticisms is at least a factor in what is called contructive dismissal. In short, the employee is forced to resign due to the employer's acts, rather than their own.
The coworker lunching with the boss, and having knowledge of the criticisms is further evidence of same. I wouldn't trust that co-worker to carry my lunch, by the way. Her job is more secure if yours is lost, and cutbacks are imminent.
Also, if workplace deficiencies are identified, performance guidance should be offered, and an opportunity to correct the deficient behaviour within a defined period of time. If those deficiencies are corrected, the criticisms are to be stricken from the record. Only if the deficiencies remain might dismissal be contemplated, and only if it can be shown that sufficient guidance was offered. That is called progressive discipline, and failure to provide it is also an aspect of constructive dismissal.
It is the employer's obligation to document all of this, not the employee's. Of course, keeping your own written notes makes fighting them more effective.....If you decide to fight them, and your laws support such arguments as I have made.
In the end, though, a decision must be made about whether keeping this job is worth it.
I feel for you, hon. Depending on regular paycheques (like the English spelling?) makes one particularly vulnerable. I hope you *do* get that university position. Please don't fall into the mental trap of thinking that you're not qualified, poorly suited, blah blah. If they make the offer, they think otherwise. Take them at their word.
{{{{{{{TC}}}}}}}
Lar
Posted by TexasChic on July 19, 2008, at 10:08:27
In reply to Re: 90 Days to get another job » TexasChic, posted by Larry Hoover on July 19, 2008, at 7:24:22
> Also, if workplace deficiencies are identified, performance guidance should be offered, and an opportunity to correct the deficient behaviour within a defined period of time. If those deficiencies are corrected, the criticisms are to be stricken from the record. Only if the deficiencies remain might dismissal be contemplated, and only if it can be shown that sufficient guidance was offered. That is called progressive discipline, and failure to provide it is also an aspect of constructive dismissal.
I believe this is what the 90 day period is. I'm supposed to meet with my supervisor once a week to discuss my progress. But she has pretty much said that it is my responsibility to figure out how to fix things. Plus, she has twisted things to make it look like I am not up to par, so no matter what I do, she will be able to twist it to whatever outcome she chooses. That's the most frustrating thing about the whole situation.
> It is the employer's obligation to document all of this, not the employee's. Of course, keeping your own written notes makes fighting them more effective.....If you decide to fight them, and your laws support such arguments as I have made.
>
> In the end, though, a decision must be made about whether keeping this job is worth it.I think after two years of fighting, I no longer have the energy or the will to fight anymore. I do wish now I had made a complaint much earlier on, but you just never know whether or not that will backfire on you. That's why I didn't do anything until I felt I had nothing else to lose.
> I feel for you, hon. Depending on regular paycheques (like the English spelling?) makes one particularly vulnerable. I hope you *do* get that university position. Please don't fall into the mental trap of thinking that you're not qualified, poorly suited, blah blah. If they make the offer, they think otherwise. Take them at their word.
Yes, those regular paychecks are an unfortunate necessity. And you're right, the people at the university read my resume and saw what my qualifications were, so that means I at least have a chance. The best thing about this though, is the fact that it actually got me excited about another job for the first time. I can now see another situation in which things could be BETTER than they are now. For some reason that was something that was difficult for me to get past. I guess after building myself up to fight for so long, it was hard to let all of that go again. But I am ready now, and excited about a whole new opportunity!
Thanks Lar!!!
-T
Posted by Kath on July 19, 2008, at 20:45:26
In reply to Re: 90 Days to get another job » Larry Hoover, posted by TexasChic on July 19, 2008, at 10:08:27
Dear TC,
I am so proud of you for sticking up for yourself in the meeting. Obviously, I'm sorry you had to go through it all & that you have to deal with such a person as your 'boss'.
I SO hope that you get the University job. It would be wonderful for you to get out of the current job REALLY quickly. How soon (in answer to their 1 question) could you start? Can you give 2 weeks' notice? or what is your situation?
I hope you keep your excitement about looking for a job. The FACT (yes, FACT) that you got that reply from the Univ. shows you that you have skills/experience that are valued. Even if you don't get the job, I hope you absorb (like a sponge) the important 'feedback' that you have value that's being recognized. And keep your confidence up - you've told us you're good at your job; work hard, etc. Please don't loose that knowledge about yourself.
Am I right in interpreting the situation this way: you filed a "confidential" report & within days she 'wrote you up'??? The's how I perceived it....& if so - makes ya wonder what they think "confidential" means!!
Anyway, I think going in to work day to day will be hell! Maybe for now, you can "act as if" (in your own mind) you're going to get the Univ. job (or one just as good if not better) - that you are a damned good worker & have good skills, etc & that you're just going day-to-day where you are until you get the job where they'll really value you, etc. Sort of have it like a little secret in YOUR mind - that you know this & they DON'T.
Yes - as to assertiveness possibly bringing forth anger. My experience with blossoming assertiveness was that it was sort of like a pendulum....my pendulum had been over at one side, then instead of swinging to the middle & sitting there, it swung over the the other side (more like a little agressiveness than assertiveness) then sorta settled back more in the middle. There are still times when I can be on either side of middle, but more times when I'm nearer the middle.
I send my support & love, Kath
Posted by TexasChic on July 19, 2008, at 21:05:28
In reply to Re: 90 Days to get another job » Larry Hoover, posted by TexasChic on July 19, 2008, at 10:08:27
After briefly discussing how I grew up, my current and past work situations, and my relationships throughout my life, she pointed out something that should have been obvious to me. My controlling father was a bully, and ever since then I have been recreating that scenario. She said, as one of you smart people told me, that it takes two people to form a relationship, and I keep on taking on the role as victim.
Funny, it never occurred to me to think of my dad as a bully, I just knew he was controlling and crazy, and would probably kill us all one day (he passed away fairly young, which was quite the guilty relief). I learned to be passive and not make any waves, because that's the only choice I had as a kid. Until she pointed it out, I had no idea I was reenacting the same thing over and over.
She told me I can use my 90 days as practice (at what I assume is not being a victim). I look forward to more meetings with her.
-T
Posted by Kath on July 19, 2008, at 21:30:55
In reply to New T was great!, posted by TexasChic on July 19, 2008, at 21:05:28
What wonderful news TC.
I am extremely happy for you.
Is this the T who you can only see 3 times?
luv,Kath
Posted by TexasChic on July 19, 2008, at 21:45:33
In reply to Re: 90 Days to get another job » TexasChic, posted by Kath on July 19, 2008, at 20:45:26
> Dear TC,
>
> I am so proud of you for sticking up for yourself in the meeting. Obviously, I'm sorry you had to go through it all & that you have to deal with such a person as your 'boss'.Thanks Kath! I was proud of myself too. I'm so glad I was over being upset by the time it happened, and able to handle it in the way I wanted to without my emotions taking over.
> I SO hope that you get the University job. It would be wonderful for you to get out of the current job REALLY quickly.That would be almost too good to be true!
>How soon (in answer to their 1 question) could you start? Can you give 2 weeks' notice? or what is your situation?
I can give two weeks notice, but I don't really want to!
> I hope you keep your excitement about looking for a job. The FACT (yes, FACT) that you got that reply from the Univ. shows you that you have skills/experience that are valued. Even if you don't get the job, I hope you absorb (like a sponge) the important 'feedback' that you have value that's being recognized. And keep your confidence up - you've told us you're good at your job; work hard, etc. Please don't loose that knowledge about yourself.
Thank you! I think I will maintain that excitement now that I have finally been about to let go of the dream of my current job. Its just not what I thought it was. Did I mention that I went to the doctor on the premises at work, who is not employed by my employer, and when I told her what was going on she said she has heard this type of thing many many times from other patients? She said she believes its common at this company to use 'scare tactics'.
> Am I right in interpreting the situation this way: you filed a "confidential" report & within days she 'wrote you up'??? The's how I perceived it....& if so - makes ya wonder what they think "confidential" means!!Yeah, but I knew she was planning to write me up for about two months. I could just tell by the way she was acting and keeping copies of every mistake I made. I actually think she may be completely ignorant to the fact that I complained about her.
> Anyway, I think going in to work day to day will be hell! Maybe for now, you can "act as if" (in your own mind) you're going to get the Univ. job (or one just as good if not better) - that you are a damned good worker & have good skills, etc & that you're just going day-to-day where you are until you get the job where they'll really value you, etc. Sort of have it like a little secret in YOUR mind - that you know this & they DON'T.
That's exactly what I was thinking! I'm going to try to do just that.
> Yes - as to assertiveness possibly bringing forth anger. My experience with blossoming assertiveness was that it was sort of like a pendulum....my pendulum had been over at one side, then instead of swinging to the middle & sitting there, it swung over the the other side (more like a little agressiveness than assertiveness) then sorta settled back more in the middle. There are still times when I can be on either side of middle, but more times when I'm nearer the middle.
Yes, I've found that to be my experience as well. Then I end up feeling guilty for 'overreacting'. I'm trying to stop doing that though (both overreacting as well as feeling guilty when I do).
> I send my support & love, Kath
Thank you, it means so much to me. I have little support IRL, especially since I've lost my one true confindant, my coworker who also works under my boss. There is a lady at work who has been standing by me and listening when I need it. She holds the same position as I do, and she and the other lady in that position have been very supportive all along. They are both very assertive and get angry at how my boss treats me. I have tried to keep it all to myself and not discuss it amongst the other employees, but they witness things and come to me and try to help. They've also been the most trustworthy if not the closest friends I've made there. I have also talked to my mom about it lately. She is not much help advice wise, but she will listen and comiserate.
-T
Posted by TexasChic on July 19, 2008, at 21:52:50
In reply to Re: New T was great! » TexasChic, posted by Kath on July 19, 2008, at 21:30:55
> What wonderful news TC.
>
> I am extremely happy for you.
>
> Is this the T who you can only see 3 times?
>
> luv,KathIts not that I can only see her 3 times, but that the first 3 times are free. After that I am free to keep seeing her and paying the normal copay for that sort of service.
-T
Posted by TexasChic on July 20, 2008, at 20:12:09
In reply to Re: New T was great! » Kath, posted by TexasChic on July 19, 2008, at 21:52:50
I debated over it all weekend. I considered creative writing, humor, all sorts of things to stand out. I finally decided on a very confident description of my background and my love of art, using the thesaurus quite often. I think it turned out pretty good. So we'll see what happens! And if this isn't the one, well, now my eyes are opened to the fact that there is bigger and better out there and I would be really rather stupid to stay where I am. In fact, now I can't believe I stayed so long! But what can I say, I'm not a quitter, and I don't back down from a challenge. This is in spite of fact that people are always calling me 'timid'. I really hate that word.
-T
Posted by TexasChic on July 20, 2008, at 20:55:29
In reply to I sent my reply for the job at the University, posted by TexasChic on July 20, 2008, at 20:12:09
Another coworker told me that rudegirl had told her I was getting written up and was asking if she knew anything about it. I had told my bosses boss by email when the first person told me about it, but since he never replied to me, and has since changed his tune about all the support he was supposed to have given me, I'm going to make a complaint to her supervisor. I'm so sick of her (rudegirl) and don't look forward to her flaunting the knowledge of my write up in my face.
I am also going to ask my pdoc for a written diagnoses of my ADD. The HR lady said if I bring one in, with what sort of accommodations I need, they have to honor it as long as it doesn't cause undue hardship to the company. I may not have the desire to work things out anymore, but I can try to make things better for myself while I'm there. Plus, my new T said that this would be a good thing to use to practice standing up for myself.
Man, if I can just get moved away from rudegirl, whose loud abrasive voice actually hurts my ears, it would be worth it. She's been on vacation all last week and will be out all this next week, so it has been so nice and quiet! Even getting written up didn't spoil that pleasure!
-T
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