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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on June 24, 2008, at 12:08:12
My therapist tells me it's pretty common for people to treat their family members with less respect than they treat their coworkers.
My family aside, I always thought that people were especially respectful of the people they valued most, and who share their lives and homes. I guess the people who shaped my ethical values (which were at least half celluloid families) wouldn't dream of speaking of their spouses or children without respect, even at those moments when they may not be feeling all that much affection.
Posted by Phillipa on June 24, 2008, at 12:16:19
In reply to I must be naive, posted by Dinah on June 24, 2008, at 12:08:12
Dinah you must have had a very good upbringing as my family small but always yelled and fought. No respect for others. Sad but true. You are truly blessed. Love Phillipa
Posted by Dinah on June 24, 2008, at 14:25:03
In reply to Re: I must be naive » Dinah, posted by Phillipa on June 24, 2008, at 12:16:19
Well, I meant aside from my family of origin...
My mother and father weren't too fond of each other. The things they said to each other weren't *just* disrespectful.
I had friends that my husband says were abnormally "Leave it to Beaver". But that's really how I think it ought to be. I try to be as respectful of my husband and son as I ever would be to anyone else. Maybe more so. And my son is never ever disrespectful. He is the most thoughtful and considerate boy. It almost worries me.
Posted by daveuk08 on June 24, 2008, at 14:47:46
In reply to Re: I must be naive » Phillipa, posted by Dinah on June 24, 2008, at 14:25:03
Dear Dinah
I was always taught that blood is thicker than water.But as I grow older, I`m told , you can choose you friends but not your family ?.
I`m puzzled ? does that make me naive ?
Dave. (against the "S" word)
Posted by karen_kay on June 25, 2008, at 12:50:06
In reply to I must be naive, posted by Dinah on June 24, 2008, at 12:08:12
i treat mister kk with no respect. i've been known to treat complete strangers with much more respect. of course, i tend to look at it like 'well, he married me and that means he gets to see ALL sides of kk, the good, the bad and the ugly.' that's what i figure anyway.
as for my son, he gets nothing but my utmost respect. anyone born with a mother like me deserves nothing but :)
and speakign of people who dwell in the same home... i'm no good with roomates. luckily, my sister-in-law and i are getting along fabulously. she's become my new best friend. it wasn't so when she lived with us. i never was good at living with people. at least i've learn that, adn won't make the mistake of living with people i'm not forced to, due to marriage or birth, ever again :)
Posted by Dinah on June 25, 2008, at 22:45:57
In reply to Re: I must be naive » Phillipa, posted by Dinah on June 24, 2008, at 14:25:03
I just really really hate conflict. Really.
I guess that's what it comes down to. I wish my husband treated me like a coworker rather than a family member.
Sometimes. I must clarify I only mean sometimes.
Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on June 26, 2008, at 8:42:12
In reply to I must be naive, posted by Dinah on June 24, 2008, at 12:08:12
> My therapist tells me it's pretty common for people to treat their family members with less respect than they treat their coworkers.
>
> My family aside, I always thought that people were especially respectful of the people they valued most, and who share their lives and homes. I guess the people who shaped my ethical values (which were at least half celluloid families) wouldn't dream of speaking of their spouses or children without respect, even at those moments when they may not be feeling all that much affection.
Ahhhhh Dinah. You are a sweet woman :) I know exactly what you are saying. Let me put it this way, though.People we love tons are people we can be deeply hurt by, or feel slighted by, or whatever. The emotions are magnified many times moreso then by some stranger on the street. You can never have love without pain. I'd like to copyright that last statement..as I know it quite well. Always smiling and pretty and lovely families are found on t.v. Not in the real world. Yes, there are moments, indeed, hopefully lots of them, but otherwise one day we are bathed in light, one night carried away in storms.
IMHO...
Jay :)
Posted by 64Bowtie on June 26, 2008, at 8:42:41
In reply to Re: I must be naive, posted by Dinah on June 25, 2008, at 22:45:57
(((Dinah)))...
Nahhh... Naive is not a word I connect to my mental picture of y'alls...
'course, it is written, that other-respect has no traction in the absense of self-respect... Sounds like a platitude, however, until I got my brain around that "rule", everyone was fair game... No one was safe from my wrath, no matter how misguided and ill-advised it might have been...
See, when I didn't get my "2 year-old" needs met (I want what I want when I want it), I would mistakenly misdirect the light of enlightnement onto everybody and everything... Got me into trouble, caused lost loves and friendships, and to what end???
I NEVER GOT ANY NEEDS MET!!! ...no how no way!!!
You claim naivite'... It may have been over 30 years ago, but I remember the fool that I was... I wasn't like a fool... I wasn't similar to a fool... I was a fool; acting foolishly; the best I could do at the time; a time when I didn't see any need to picture myself having self-respect, and I didn't have any anyway, so I wouldn't have recognised it if I had it...
I admit (laughingly) to living a boring life; no drugs, no booze, no rock and roll!!! My nose to the grindstone, making my Mom proud of me!!! Before she passed away 15 years ago, she claimed she was plenty proud of me... Matched how I felt about myself... By then I had my Doctorate; smiled like the cat that ate the canary...
Issue is that my self-satisfaction was for what I had done, not for who I was/am... I had already been tearing myself to shreds for about 15 years by that time, and to what avail???
Life is a process of "unfolding"... Not much unfolding had happened yet because I had toooo tight of a grip on my so-called reality... I continue to hear how others had used halucinigens to break themselves free... Not the way I do things... So, it simply took me longer than the others, except most if not all, now continue self-medicating... Again, not my way...
In my notes from 1990, I wrote about the importance of self-respect instead of continueing to jerk myself around over self-esteem... I guess I'm finally getting it!!!
Rod
Posted by Dinah on June 26, 2008, at 10:54:07
In reply to Re: I must be naive » Dinah, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on June 26, 2008, at 8:42:12
I guess I still don't understand *why*.
My parents... Well, they didn't control their anger very well in or out of the home. Not that they got in brawls or anything. Well, verbal brawls maybe for my mother. She's had a few Jerry Springer moments. But they were certainly angry everywhere, so it seemed like they really couldn't control it. I got no worse than perfect strangers really. Maybe they treated each other worse. Or my brother. But the anger that came my way was their everyday anger that was the same with everyone.
My husband is a person who attracted me because of his charm, sense of humor, and ability to laugh. Thirteen years of courtship confirmed that. My mother tried to point out hints of other things in relationship to animals, or towards his mother and grandmother, but I thought she just didn't want to lose her little girl. At work, everyone thinks he's the most agreeable, easygoing, and diplomatic person in the world. At home I'd never call him easygoing. But for the most part he's funny, brilliant, honorable, and respectful. When he's under stress, though, he's angry a lot, and tends to notice the admittedly numerous faults we might exhibit. And while we're all well aware that we don't meet his standards as a general rule, when he's under stress doesn't point this out with the kindness and respect I expect to receive from my partner. It's clearly not beyond his control. If I were a coworker he'd treat me more respectfully.
I dunno. I guess I tend to live by the same civility rules as apply at Babble. They seem natural to me. I wasn't always respectful to my mother growing up, but for the most part only in response to disrespect. And I wasn't as respectful as I should have been to my brother. Now that I'm older, I really regret that and have apologized and now am careful to be respectful.
Certainly I always strive to be respectful to my husband and son. I love them. They're the most important things in the world to me. Why would I want to take my anger out on these beloved souls? Especially in a way I would not treat those less close to me?
It's not that I don't care. I care a lot. And I'm not even talking about the occasional flareup caused by relationship issues, although I don't see why those can't be discussed in a way that will build and strengthen a relationship rather than damage or destroy it. I don't see why everything can't be discussed in that way.
I don't understand, and I don't think I'll ever understand. Words spoken in anger are contagious, and hopefully words spoken with peace are also contagious. I'm not sure it's as contagious though.
I don't wish to speak disrespectfully of him. 95% of the time he is a wonderful husband, who can't really help being more responsible and clever than I am. And he is never ever ever physically abusive, or even verbally abusive. I know how lucky I am. I just don't particularly understand this point, and while my husband and I have discussed it many times, he's never been able to explain it in a way I understand.
Posted by Dinah on June 26, 2008, at 10:55:59
In reply to »»» Dinah »»» Re: I must be naive???, posted by 64Bowtie on June 26, 2008, at 8:42:41
I don't know, Rod. His self respect and self esteem seem fine. Sometimes the most effective thing I can do is ask if someone as wonderful as he is would do whatever it is he just did. He's very exacting of himself.
Posted by Dinah on June 26, 2008, at 10:57:43
In reply to i'm the worst... » Dinah, posted by karen_kay on June 25, 2008, at 12:50:06
It's hard to live with people. I'm pretty lousy at it myself.
Does your husband mind? If it's a part of your relationship that you both understand, and neither of you minds, I can't see where there's a problem.
Posted by tootercat on June 27, 2008, at 17:18:06
In reply to Re: i'm the worst... » karen_kay, posted by Dinah on June 26, 2008, at 10:57:43
>>"People we love tons are people we can be deeply hurt by, or feel slighted by, or whatever. The emotions are magnified many times moreso then by some stranger on the street. You can never have love without pain. I'd like to copyright that last statement..as I know it quite well. Always smiling and pretty and lovely families are found on t.v. Not in the real world. Yes, there are moments, indeed, hopefully lots of them, but otherwise one day we are bathed in light, one night carried away in storms."<<
Well said Jay!
Dinah - I left a marriage almost 5 years ago with a man who was -charming, handsome, funny, affectionate, dependable, cash register honest, and at that time a very important thing - sober.
It worked for 10 years - 7 of which we were married.So you ask - you left? Are you crazy? NO! It was the sanest thing I have ever done in my life!
The way he spoke to me , especially when his ego was involved, was nothing less than cruel and disrespectful. If there was a conflict it was all or nothing and it was usually my fault (of course) and I shared deep issues and feelings with him that were eventually thrown in my face when he was upset with me. His idea of taking care of having to deal with throwing out an accumulation of stuff in our garage was not to go through it and make it something positive..it was *&*^^! I'm gonna take all of this out in the driveway and light a match!
We did not have a sex life to speak of....that was a major bone of contention as well....we went to counseling...I think he thought I would get fixed and would be ready to "go for it" Who wants to be involved in life's most vulnerable and hopefully most loving and imtimate act with someone who doesn't really respect you? And who thinks that sex is the only way to be intimate?
The final straw for me was when an argument got way out of hand (over a clogged drain mind you)and I ended up almost dying at his hands. There are detailed reasons as to why I didn't call the cops and/or leave him then and there.
What I learned from my marriage and the experience of almost dying because of an argument, a stupid one at that, is that I needed to change me. I had to deal with my own anger issues (which helped escalate the almost deadly argument though I didn't deserve to have that done to me.)
I learned that I can express myself (including anger, fear, and hurt) in a way that isn't blaming; is mindful of MY feelings, and to do it when not in heat but in a calm manner but not too long after the conflict has happened other wise it is often not even remembered by the other party. I learned that being passive aggressive can be deadly.
I DID NOT learn anything positive from my family of origin - or my extended families (step parents)
I finally started to even want to learn a new way after i finally got sick of having so many UNHEALTHY relationships that were a result of my unconscious choosing of people and situations that were familiar! My "picker" was broken because I didn't know that the answers and solutions had to come from me in order to make better choices and to learn to respect myself in a way that I wasn't for most of my life. And this means change which is the most horrible non four letter word in most people's vacaulary. Even good change is stressful.
It isn't easy! Notice I say isn't not wasn't> I am still awork in progress. I can say this....I like and love my life a whole lot more than I ever have.
I am married again. I have a man in my life who loves me, likes me, respects me, and boy does he flip my switch! Some of our MOST intimate experiences, however, with each other are NOT in the bedroom!
Is life perfect? No. I am human he is human and life happens. Feelings happen..egos happen. Do we scream and talk around each other? no to screaming..yes sometimes to talking around...then we, mosttimes, stop and say...I'm sorry and mean it. and take turns listening and talking.
sorry to babble on....Relationships of all kinds, other family members, friends, even strangers, require us to be respectful to others and to ourselves and that sometimes means closing the door on an unhealthy situation if both parties are not willing to listen and make necessary compromise or change..
I hope you find some answers for yourself with respect to your relationship with your husband.
Your long-winded Babble MIA,
Pam (toots)
Posted by Dinah on June 28, 2008, at 9:45:43
In reply to Re: i'm the worst..., posted by tootercat on June 27, 2008, at 17:18:06
Hi. It's good to see you again. :)
I'm really really glad that you left that situation with your husband. Having the self respect not to accept that kind of treatment is even more important than having respect for others in your family.
Fortunately things aren't that bad with my husband. In fact, he's my best friend in many ways. Definitely no physical abuse, and no verbal abuse in terms of vicious belittlement. When he's under stress, though, things that are normally at acceptable levels get amplified.
It's just that I really don't understand the thought concept that it's ok to behave to family in a way that isn't ok to behave to others.
Since I've calmly spoken to him he's started behaving much better. The good thing is that he expects as much from himself as he does from others.
Posted by tootercat on June 28, 2008, at 20:51:30
In reply to Re: i'm the worst... » tootercat, posted by Dinah on June 28, 2008, at 9:45:43
Yes It is nice to be seen again too! LOL Thank you!
I guess it sounded as if I was saying you should leave your husband....absolutely NOT...unless of course there was as you stated to the negative; physical and/or verbal abuse.
Good for you saying something! And more than that - calmly saying something. It is so easy to slip into unhealthy behaviors that we learned from others.
I hope that that your husband can find some peace and in turn your family finding peace.
Hugs,
Pam
Posted by karen_kay on June 30, 2008, at 19:45:51
In reply to Re: i'm the worst... » karen_kay, posted by Dinah on June 26, 2008, at 10:57:43
i just never bothered to ask him how he feels.
see, i proved my point :)
somehow (and how awful is this?) i tend to think 'i need what i need' and then worry aobut others' feelings regarding that later, if at all.
maybe that isn't true? i' not sure right now. maybe it's jsut my frame of mind right now, at this very moment?
This is the end of the thread.
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