![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Kath on May 21, 2006, at 11:38:39
(I posted this last nite on the Parents board - no answers yet & I really need support right now. I think we can't post the same thing on 2 boards so maybe whoever checks this stuff can erase it from Parents board if necessary)
Actually - it's the results for HIM of his unwise life choices that I find it hard to let go of....if I'm coming from a more intellectual level.
- why can't he learn from his mistakes?
- why can't he see that he's ruining his life?
- how could I have failed so amazingly at being a parent?
- how can I extricate myself from this 'enmeshment' with him?I first joined PB in 2000 when I had started taking Celexa for anxiety due to my son's behaviour. He was around 16 at that point.
I've been off meds since about October. I've been doing reasonably well since then until his announcement a couple of weeks ago that he felt like simply walking away from everything with just the clothes on his back...Here he is 22 & STILL using drugs; STILL partying; STILL awake all nite & asleep all day; STILL NOT WANTING to WORK;
The big difference is that he & his girlfriend have their own place. THAT is a MAJOR thing that's different.
(Excuse all the upper-case letters; I just feel really exasperated)
For several months he's had no job. His girlfriend works a couple of days a week. 2 weeks ago their gas was turned of because they have a $800. bill they haven't paid. Their April rent cheque hasn't been cashed yet, but they are expecting it'll bounce.
I find it SOOOOOOOOOOOOO hard to detach....to not worry about the "natural consequences" that might happen.
Why can't I just let go????? Instead of not thinking about him, it's as if his situation is in the back of my mind all the time. When I asked him how the 'job search' was going & mentioned to him a couple of local places that are hiring he said something like: "I feel like you & Dad are pressuring me to find a job - it's like when I lived at home; I might as well be living at home."
I hate the thought of them having the stress of their rent-cheque bouncing. My mind does things like "oh jeez - then they'll be given their notice & will have nowhere to put all their belongings & will lose all their belongings" etc etc.
What is wrong with me? I wish I could just DETACH.
Has anyone had this type of thing to deal with? I feel so alone. So very alone in this.
Any feedback is MOST welcome.
Kath
PS - I'm adding this as I move this to Social. It's rainy (not nice weather for the PB-ers who are in Toronto (I'm an hour North). It was actually Hailing!!!
I'm still feeling alone. I can talk to my husband about it & he's supportive, but just doesn't get as emotionally involved as I do. I feel sad & lonely.
Kath
Posted by Racer on May 21, 2006, at 14:34:43
In reply to Can't detach from 22yr old son's stupid choices..., posted by Kath on May 21, 2006, at 11:38:39
I'm so sorry, Kath. That's got to be pretty devastating for you, and I can only imagine how it feels, since I have no children of my own. (That's my tragedy.)
I'm afraid the only thing I can think of to say is that you gotta step back and let him make these mistakes. Yeah, he's hurting himself, long term, but the only way he's going to learn that is to do it at this point. The only exceptions are if he has such a dangerous drug habit that you can get him into rehab, which would not be a great solution; or if he's ever willing to speak to you about WHY he does this, or WHAT he's feeling/thinking/planning around it.
Have you got a therapist handy? Or find yourself a parents-of-maddening-children support group? Either of those might help. Or find a really irresistable woman to introduce him to, to lure him away from the girlfriend -- a really perfect woman who PAYS HER BILLS?
I'm just sorry, Kath. I wish there was somehting i could offer to help.
Posted by crazy teresa on May 21, 2006, at 15:14:27
In reply to Can't detach from 22yr old son's stupid choices..., posted by Kath on May 21, 2006, at 11:38:39
I am sooo sorry you're having to live through this. I'm not sure anything else is as painful as watching our children make poor descisions, except loosing one. I have lived through both.
I would recommend two books to you, which really helped me with my daughters. "Changes That Heal" (this one helped me deal with my mother-in-law from hell, too!) and "Love Must Be Tough". As hard as it is, I had to learn to stop bailing my daughter out of trouble. Making her life easier was not making her life better, in fact it was ultimately hurting her, keeping her in the same unhealthy patterns. It was keeping her from becoming a responsible adult and contributing member of society. A good counselor helped a great deal with this, also. A cheerleader on my side when I felt like I was hurting her, even though in fact I was actually helping her, was tremendously supportive.
You are not a failure as a parent! Your son is old enough to know how to make good descisions. I doubt that you taught him it was ok to take drugs and bounce checks. All we can do is teach them what we can and let them go.
Stop letting him balckmail you emotionally. It's not your fault he doesn't work. And let's get real, was living with you so horrible? I doubt it. I'll bet he had electricity the entire time he was with you! If I were you, I'd be very offended by remarks like that. If he can't be nice, then I wouldn't call him or go out of my way to visit. Until he shows you the respect that you as his mother deserve, I would keep my distance. Isn't that what he's actually asking you to do? If that's what he wants so much, then let him have it. Let him find out that life without you isn't as rosey as he might think. What would he think if there were no extra groceries, no birthday gifts, no free dinners out, no thoughtful acts from you at all? I may sound like a horible bitch, but he can't have his cake and eat it too! You are teaching him it is ok to say hurtful things to you by letting him get away with remarks like that.
If the rent check bounces, it is not your responsiblity to provide them with a place to live. It seems like we all have to learn the hard way. Some of us take longer to learn lessons than others, and some have to hit bottom a lot harder before realizing all we have to do is make better choices to live a better life. You can't MAKE him want a better life. That choice is his and his alone.
I used to obsess over what it was that I needed to change or do to fix everything for everybody. The harder I tried, the less respect I was shown and the less respect I had for myself. Once I learned it was not my job (and oh my gosh, how freeing is THAT!) to fix the world (or at least my world), the letting go came naturally. If someone doesn't like the way I do something (like a realative not liking the way I raise my kids), that's ok. They don't have to. At one point, I would have driven myself crazy, felt there was something wrong with me or my child-raising, and probably tried to find a way to smooth things out between the differences of opinion. Now that I have adjusted my thinking, I am able to hear their suggestions, take them for what they're worth, ignore them as needed and move on.
I hope me reply has helped you find some perspective. You really are not alone!
Posted by Kath on May 21, 2006, at 16:29:10
In reply to Re: Can't detach from 22yr old son's stupid choice, posted by Racer on May 21, 2006, at 14:34:43
Hi Racer
*****Thank you so much for answering. It means a LOT to me.*********
-- since I have no children of my own. (That's my tragedy.)
******I'm sorry Racer. I know a lot of women who don't have children & want to & it must be really painful.*******
> I'm afraid the only thing I can think of to say is that you gotta step back and let him make these mistakes. Yeah, he's hurting himself, long term, but the only way he's going to learn that is to do it at this point. The only exceptions are if he has such a dangerous drug habit that you can get him into rehab, which would not be a great solution; or if he's ever willing to speak to you about WHY he does this, or WHAT he's feeling/thinking/planning around it.***********he uses various drugs & I'm sure it's horrid for him, but it's not like he's a cocaine or crack or heroin or crystal meth 'user'. I think if there's an addiction, it's to using substances to cope with life, as opposed to being addicted to a particular substance. Not that that's GREAT!!! I think he's depressed; when suggesting this to him & asking if he'd consider taking meds, he says he IS taking meds to help him feel better! Oh well.***********
> Have you got a therapist handy? Or find yourself a parents-of-maddening-children support group? Either of those might help. Or find a really irresistable woman to introduce him to, to lure him away from the girlfriend -- a really perfect woman who PAYS HER BILLS?*********I do have a therapist who is paid for by my husband's work but for 'short-term' situations. I have had 1 appointment last week with her & will be seeing her again. Usually I can go for 8 or 9 sessions about a particular problem, so that's good. It does help, but being able to have support here is immeasurably helpful to me.*********
> I'm just sorry, Kath. I wish there was somehting i could offer to help.********I really appreciate your support & will probably view this as a "support group" for me during this upcoming time. Thanks Racer.
:-) Kath - & yes, I actually am smiling, which is better than earlier today!********
Posted by Kath on May 21, 2006, at 16:58:27
In reply to Re: Can't detach from 22yr old son's stupid choices... » Kath, posted by crazy teresa on May 21, 2006, at 15:14:27
> I am sooo sorry you're having to live through this. I'm not sure anything else is as painful as watching our children make poor descisions, except loosing one. I have lived through both.
********I'm so sorry that you've had problems with your daughter AND lost a child. I know how even having a very early miscarriage was devastating to me years ago, so I can't even imagine how awful it would be to lose a child.*****
> I would recommend two books to you, which really helped me with my daughters. "Changes That Heal" (this one helped me deal with my mother-in-law from hell, too!) and "Love Must Be Tough".
********I'll see if I can get either (or both) from the library. If not, & if they helped you to change your behaviour around your daughter's behaviour, it'd be worth me buying - because that's exactly what I need to do. I HAVE been a part of keeping my son from being a contributing member of society, because I've bailed him out; helped him in lots of ways.***********As hard as it is, I had to learn to stop bailing my daughter out of trouble. Making her life easier was not making her life better, in fact it was ultimately hurting her, keeping her in the same unhealthy patterns. It was keeping her from becoming a responsible adult and contributing member of society. A good counselor helped a great deal with this, also. A cheerleader on my side when I felt like I was hurting her, even though in fact I was actually helping her, was tremendously supportive.
******As I mentioned in my reply to Racer, I do have access to a good counsellor for a certain period of time. They're just too expensive for me to have an ongoing one, however, my family physician is VERY good, knows my history & my son's, has talked with me before about these things & has told me that I'm welcome to make an appointment with him just to talk whenever I need to, so I think I'll make a point to do that.*******
> You are not a failure as a parent! Your son is old enough to know how to make good descisions. I doubt that you taught him it was ok to take drugs and bounce checks. All we can do is teach them what we can and let them go.
>
> Stop letting him balckmail you emotionally. It's not your fault he doesn't work. And let's get real, was living with you so horrible? I doubt it. I'll bet he had electricity the entire time he was with you! If I were you, I'd be very offended by remarks like that. If he can't be nice, then I wouldn't call him or go out of my way to visit. Until he shows you the respect that you as his mother deserve, I would keep my distance. Isn't that what he's actually asking you to do? If that's what he wants so much, then let him have it. Let him find out that life without you isn't as rosey as he might think. What would he think if there were no extra groceries, no birthday gifts, no free dinners out, no thoughtful acts from you at all? I may sound like a horible bitch, but he can't have his cake and eat it too! You are teaching him it is ok to say hurtful things to you by letting him get away with remarks like that.
*******good points & NO you don't sound like a bitch to me! I do better if I get mad & I'm actually really glad he said that to me!!! Since that point, (Thursday nite) I have kept my cellphone turned off, am NOT answering my phone (which is fine with me; people can leave me a message if they want to & I'll call them back). My 30-year old daughter (who is lovely, so I guess I AM a pretty good parent after all!) is living with my husband & I since she has Multiple Chemical Sensitivities & can't work. I've asked her to pick up any phone messages & relay the info to me. That way, I don't even need to hear his voice! You're right - so what was so horrible about living here?!!!
It's hard for me to not 'horrible-ize' as my thoughts tend to go "Oh poor J. If they get kicked out he'll lose all his possessions." etc. etc. A couple of times recently, driving along, there've been homes where tons of possessions have been at the end of the lane & my mind goes to J losing all his stuff. I think a big challenge for me right now is to yank my mind away from thinking about him at ALL & that is very hard for me. I hope those books will help. The totally ironic thing is that on an intellectual level, I KNOW about letting him 'hit bottom' etc. I went to CoDependents Anonymous for 4 years (a 12-step program). Unfortunately, it is no longer happening, so that's not an option.**********> If the rent check bounces, it is not your responsiblity to provide them with a place to live. It seems like we all have to learn the hard way. Some of us take longer to learn lessons than others, and some have to hit bottom a lot harder before realizing all we have to do is make better choices to live a better life. You can't MAKE him want a better life. That choice is his and his alone.
******** thank you for the above "You can't MAKE him want a better life." I'm going to write that BIG & set it where I'll see it, because it's true, isn't it! That is what this is about I guess. All the things you've pointed out are true & good for me to hear.******
>
> I used to obsess over what it was that I needed to change or do to fix everything for everybody. The harder I tried, the less respect I was shown and the less respect I had for myself. Once I learned it was not my job (and oh my gosh, how freeing is THAT!) to fix the world (or at least my world), the letting go came naturally. If someone doesn't like the way I do something (like a realative not liking the way I raise my kids), that's ok. They don't have to. At one point, I would have driven myself crazy, felt there was something wrong with me or my child-raising, and probably tried to find a way to smooth things out between the differences of opinion. Now that I have adjusted my thinking, I am able to hear their suggestions, take them for what they're worth, ignore them as needed and move on.
>
> I hope me reply has helped you find some perspective. You really are not alone!
>
*******Thanks Teresa - this has been very valuable for me. It's quite possible that I might pop in & 'debrief' etc as needed over the next while. This is extremely hard for me & I know it's both an important AND necessary change for me to make.Thanks for your support. :-) Kath**********
Posted by Phillipa on May 21, 2006, at 20:24:36
In reply to Re: Can't detach from 22yr old son's stupid choices..., posted by Kath on May 21, 2006, at 16:58:27
Similar problem different outcome. My Son was living with me met a girl who was pregnant married her got his GED oh he was brilliant. Would skip school and ace all the tests with out studying. Anyway he joined the Army after trading cars with me mine paid for he said he would make the payment on the truck I bought for him which of course he didn't . Oh he did use and sell drugs for a short time til the Army. Left for training as a special Ranger And 82nd Airbourne. Did not hear from him for over a year. One day his wife called me and said I think you should know you Son just parachuetted into Pananama. Well he was okay we all got back together at FtBragg. Then Desert Storm he was the first to be sent there wife pregnant with his Son. In March 2 days after the war ended he was with his commanding officer in the humvee and his best friend was souvenir hunting. Got back to camp in Iraq friend hands him what looks like a brown paper bag. Boom off go two fingers as few seconds later Boom again eyesight blown out. He's now officially Blind. Love Phillipa ps no more drugs and went to university on the Army LSW was all they would let him study grauduated summa cum Laude. Now on l00% diability and the government won't make it possible for him to work. They say he has to have a driver's licence. Blind?
Posted by madeline on May 21, 2006, at 20:44:02
In reply to Can't detach from 22yr old son's stupid choices..., posted by Kath on May 21, 2006, at 11:38:39
What drugs is your son on? Do you have any idea? Where is he getting the money to pay for them? Is he an alcoholic?
Whenever illicit drugs are on board or alcoholism is on the table, then it becomes a totally different ballgame to me. Laziness is one thing, but addicitions of this type can ruin a person from the inside out, and the son you love may be lost inside a bottle or down a crack pipe.
To me, your son might be 22 but he may need you now just as much as he did when he was an infant.
I'm not talking about where is he going to put his stuff when he gets kicked out of his apartment, I'm talking about an escalating pattern of drug abuse and neglect.
You need to determine the extent of his drug use and if it's bad, you need to get him into rehab. Physically put him there if need be. Legally, get medical power of attorney, have him declared incompetent, do what you need to do to help your son.
I've seen this happen so many times and the parents just think they are powerless to help, or just simply pay bill after bill after bill. If your son can't take control of his life, then you need to do it for him and you might just save his life in the process.
Maddie
Posted by Kath on May 21, 2006, at 22:17:13
In reply to Re: Can't detach from 22yr old son's stupid choices... » Kath, posted by Phillipa on May 21, 2006, at 20:24:36
Jeez Phillipa,
It's awful what some people have to go through.
Life sometimes seems so unfair to me.How do you cope with all that? You certainly seem like such a kind, loving, gentle, caring person. I'm really sorry that's happened in your life. And I'm hoping that the government can help him in some way. Are there agencies that speak up for people in that type of situation? Like an ombudsman (I think it's called). Or what in Canada would be called a Member of Parliament?
My thoughts are with you & your Son.
Kath
Posted by Kath on May 21, 2006, at 22:39:20
In reply to Alright, I have a different take on this. » Kath, posted by madeline on May 21, 2006, at 20:44:02
Hi Maddie,
> What drugs is your son on? ***marijuana, alcohol - I think they're the main ones. I know he also sometimes does acid, ecstasy, sometimes cocaine. As far as I know it's mainly weed & booze.****
Do you have any idea? Where is he getting the money to pay for them? ***I don't like to say on here; I suspect he sells to friends and friends come to their house & share*****
Is he an alcoholic? ******No, but he IS dependent on using whatever substance to avoid the pain of reality, I think.****
>
> Whenever illicit drugs are on board or alcoholism is on the table, then it becomes a totally different ballgame to me. Laziness is one thing, but addicitions of this type can ruin a person from the inside out, and the son you love may be lost inside a bottle or down a crack pipe.
>
> To me, your son might be 22 but he may need you now just as much as he did when he was an infant.
>
> I'm not talking about where is he going to put his stuff when he gets kicked out of his apartment, I'm talking about an escalating pattern of drug abuse and neglect.
>
> You need to determine the extent of his drug use and if it's bad, you need to get him into rehab. Physically put him there if need be. Legally, get medical power of attorney, have him declared incompetent, do what you need to do to help your son.
****He was in 'rehab' when he was, I think it was 17. At that time we said he had to go if he was going to continue living with us. He didn't want to be there. I can ask my doctor about medical power of attorney....although up 'til now, my doctor has had the opinion that my son's drug use is not an addiction, but rather a lifestyle choice. I can discuss this again with my doctor. Perhaps I'll try, next time I see my son, to be open & honest with him about how I see what I feel is his drug-use keeping him from doing what he needs to do to get his life "on track". You know, I am really nervous about actually saying that. What am I afraid of? It's just me 'speaking my truth', right?
Am I afraid he'll get mad? Am I afraid he won't speak to me? Neither of those things really matter. Am I afraid that having me say that will be the straw that breaks the camel's back & he'll have a breakdown where he won't be able to do ANYTHING? Right now, I have the hope that he'll get a job & get back on track....as time goes on it seems like a less likely thing to happen day by day. Realistically, why would Mom saying that make him have a breakdown? Although the last time I said that I think he should stop doing drugs - maybe a little weed or alcohol, but not heavy stuff - there was a brief glimpse of something I saw. Like a little spark or something. At the time it sort of hit me, but I didn't think much of it - but now that I'm thinking of it - it looked like a teeny bit of fear. I'm not sure what that fear was about. This feels scarey to me....like I should have this talk, but am scared to.********> I've seen this happen so many times and the parents just think they are powerless to help, or just simply pay bill after bill after bill. If your son can't take control of his life, then you need to do it for him and you might just save his life in the process.
******I'll talk with my doctor. I think at the very least, I can have a heart-to-heart with my son; tell him I love him dearly; that I see his life getting more & more out of control....that I feel that his drug use is a big contributing factor & that I'm here to help him help himself when he's ready. I do feel that I could do that. It wouldn't be comfortable, but I think I could.
I had already decided to tell him that since he doesn't want my suggestions about how to 'fix' his situation, I need not to hear details about problems in his life; that way I won't stew about them & try to find solutions to suggest. That's what I had planned to say; now I feel mixed up about what to do. Maybe I could do both. Thanks for your concern Maddie & for your suggestions.I know that at 2 of the good rehab places in Ontario (Canada) the 'patient' needs to make the decision to attend. I guess they go by the belief that an addict has to be ready to help him or herself.
Thanks for answering my post. Kath****
>
> Maddie
>
>
Posted by Phillipa on May 21, 2006, at 22:52:14
In reply to Re: Can't detach from 22yr old son's stupid choices... » Phillipa, posted by Kath on May 21, 2006, at 22:17:13
Kath you know what? If that hadn't happened he'd probably be dead now as he was such a risk taker. Sometimes things happen for a reason. Just happy hes alive. Love Phillipa thanks for caring and good luck with your Son . Kids are great when they are little wait til the teen years.
Posted by fairywings on May 21, 2006, at 23:49:43
In reply to Can't detach from 22yr old son's stupid choices..., posted by Kath on May 21, 2006, at 11:38:39
I'm really sorry you're going through this Kath. Our children are still young; I can't imagine the pain you're going through, but I can understand not being able to detach.
A family member was very much like your son. They still lived with their parent until they were 35, and even then they were very dependent on the parent financially - drugs, gambling, making bad choices, having a lot of job turnover. The parent bailed them out until they died unexpectedly. It was sink or swim. Very sad.
You're not a bad parent Kath - it's obvious you care very deeply, or you wouldn't be so overwhelmed by his situation. I hope somehow you can find a way to deal with your anxiety over the situation. It sounds like it's eating you up.
fw
Posted by crazy teresa on May 22, 2006, at 11:15:18
In reply to Alright, I have a different take on this. » Kath, posted by madeline on May 21, 2006, at 20:44:02
No one can take control of another person's life.
You can offer help, but until a person is willing to accept help and willing be held accountable for his/her own actions, there is really nothing you can do besides pray.
Posted by wildcardII on May 22, 2006, at 13:39:03
In reply to Re: Alright, I have a different take on this. » madeline, posted by crazy teresa on May 22, 2006, at 11:15:18
Posted by Kath on May 22, 2006, at 16:38:14
In reply to Re: Can't detach from 22yr old son's stupid choices... » Kath, posted by fairywings on May 21, 2006, at 23:49:43
:-) Thanks. It IS eating me up.
Actually, this morning, I had a sort of revelation. I was reading an email from a friend who observed that I seem to want to control situations where I HAVE no control.
For some reason, the question popped into my head, "When, in my life, have I felt this kind of helplessness before?"
I started to cry & realized, to my surprise, that I felt this same kind of helplessness when I was in my early 20's & my Mom had cancer. I would have been my son's age now when she was very ill. I was 23 when she died. I have done VERY little grieving about her illness & death. When I realized the feelings are the same - the total helplessness about a loved one doing really poorly - I started to wonder if this is partly OLD STUFF. I've been feeling somewhat better today, knowing that not ALL these feelings are about my son.
Have any of you, in therapy or whatever, had issues that seemed current but turned out to be at least partly about old stuff?
K
Posted by crazy teresa on May 22, 2006, at 16:59:08
In reply to Re: Can't detach from 22yr old son's stupid choices... » fairywings, posted by Kath on May 22, 2006, at 16:38:14
> Have any of you, in therapy or whatever, had issues that seemed current but turned out to be at least partly about old stuff?
>
> K
All the time! Hang in there, sweetie.
Posted by Phillipa on May 22, 2006, at 20:56:49
In reply to Re: Can't detach from 22yr old son's stupid choices... » fairywings, posted by Kath on May 22, 2006, at 16:38:14
Yup everytime I have a loss I realize that my Mother died when I was l7 and all my life I raised myself as she was sick. But therapy just wants a quick fix today. Don't want to delve into the past. So I do it myself. Love Phillipa
Posted by madeline on May 22, 2006, at 21:33:28
In reply to Re: Alright, I have a different take on this. » madeline, posted by crazy teresa on May 22, 2006, at 11:15:18
Well, you may not be able to take control, but you can buy some time to get the drugs out and let them make clearer decisions.
Get a lawyer, take legal action, move with the courts and the physicians to get that kid away from the drugs. The police (at least where I live) will even help with an intervention.
We did this successfully with my brother and he is alive and drug free today. When the drugs are on board, they don't KNOW to ask for help.
They are evil evil things.
Posted by Jay on May 22, 2006, at 21:34:52
In reply to Can't detach from 22yr old son's stupid choices..., posted by Kath on May 21, 2006, at 11:38:39
Hi Kath...
Well geezz I am not even a parent and I can feel the stress through the monitor screen!..heh.
I am 36, and my parents still flip out on me if I ever tell them anything drastic that is going on in my life. But, I have a young nephew who is in a similar situation as your son, and his Mom, my sister, is having the same problems you are.
I don't, unfortunately, have a lot of answers. It seems that time makes it's way with these things. It creates a ton of anxiety for you as a parent, though, I realize. Maybe, if you can, put a bit of perspective on it, and think it is just a "phase". That's what I do when I have medication problems. I just think "It won't always be like this...it won't always be like this.." Easier said then done, I know.
Maybe you also need something to address your anxiety med wise. Something stronger then you are taking now. If you have BPII issues, clonazepam is an excellent med (anti-anxiety and mood stabalizer) you should be taking *right now*. I've been taking it daily with my "cocktail" for many years, and it really, really works at keeping that anxiety at check.
Don't lose yourself, or forget about yourself and your needs in all of this. The only way you can help your son is if you are really healthy.
Take care...and best...
Jay> (I posted this last nite on the Parents board - no answers yet & I really need support right now. I think we can't post the same thing on 2 boards so maybe whoever checks this stuff can erase it from Parents board if necessary)
>
> Actually - it's the results for HIM of his unwise life choices that I find it hard to let go of....if I'm coming from a more intellectual level.
>
> - why can't he learn from his mistakes?
> - why can't he see that he's ruining his life?
> - how could I have failed so amazingly at being a parent?
> - how can I extricate myself from this 'enmeshment' with him?
>
> I first joined PB in 2000 when I had started taking Celexa for anxiety due to my son's behaviour. He was around 16 at that point.
> I've been off meds since about October. I've been doing reasonably well since then until his announcement a couple of weeks ago that he felt like simply walking away from everything with just the clothes on his back...
>
> Here he is 22 & STILL using drugs; STILL partying; STILL awake all nite & asleep all day; STILL NOT WANTING to WORK;
>
> The big difference is that he & his girlfriend have their own place. THAT is a MAJOR thing that's different.
>
> (Excuse all the upper-case letters; I just feel really exasperated)
>
> For several months he's had no job. His girlfriend works a couple of days a week. 2 weeks ago their gas was turned of because they have a $800. bill they haven't paid. Their April rent cheque hasn't been cashed yet, but they are expecting it'll bounce.
>
> I find it SOOOOOOOOOOOOO hard to detach....to not worry about the "natural consequences" that might happen.
>
> Why can't I just let go????? Instead of not thinking about him, it's as if his situation is in the back of my mind all the time. When I asked him how the 'job search' was going & mentioned to him a couple of local places that are hiring he said something like: "I feel like you & Dad are pressuring me to find a job - it's like when I lived at home; I might as well be living at home."
>
> I hate the thought of them having the stress of their rent-cheque bouncing. My mind does things like "oh jeez - then they'll be given their notice & will have nowhere to put all their belongings & will lose all their belongings" etc etc.
>
> What is wrong with me? I wish I could just DETACH.
>
> Has anyone had this type of thing to deal with? I feel so alone. So very alone in this.
>
> Any feedback is MOST welcome.
>
> Kath
>
> PS - I'm adding this as I move this to Social. It's rainy (not nice weather for the PB-ers who are in Toronto (I'm an hour North). It was actually Hailing!!!
>
> I'm still feeling alone. I can talk to my husband about it & he's supportive, but just doesn't get as emotionally involved as I do. I feel sad & lonely.
>
> Kath
Posted by Kath on May 23, 2006, at 19:46:15
In reply to Re: Can't detach from 22yr old son's stupid choices... » Kath, posted by Jay on May 22, 2006, at 21:34:52
It's making it sooooo much easier to go from day to day having the support you guys have been giving me!!
I really appreciate it & sometimes there's a sentence or even a few words that help.
I'd forgotten what a supportive place this can be.
:-))) Kath
Posted by Kath on May 23, 2006, at 20:02:57
In reply to Re: Can't detach from 22yr old son's stupid choices... » Kath, posted by Jay on May 22, 2006, at 21:34:52
Answering between ******marks********* through your post:
> Hi Kath...
>
> Well geezz I am not even a parent and I can feel the stress through the monitor screen!..heh.
>
> I am 36, and my parents still flip out on me if I ever tell them anything drastic that is going on in my life. But, I have a young nephew who is in a similar situation as your son, and his Mom, my sister, is having the same problems you are.
>
> I don't, unfortunately, have a lot of answers. It seems that time makes it's way with these things. It creates a ton of anxiety for you as a parent, though, I realize. Maybe, if you can, put a bit of perspective on it, and think it is just a "phase". That's what I do when I have medication problems. I just think "It won't always be like this...it won't always be like this.." Easier said then done, I know.
************"It won't always be like this" - It's going onto the paper that I've written help-me-through-this things - 1 in my purse; 1 beside my bed; 1 on my coffee table!!*******> Maybe you also need something to address your anxiety med wise. Something stronger then you are taking now. If you have BPII issues, clonazepam is an excellent med (anti-anxiety and mood stabalizer) you should be taking *right now*. I've been taking it daily with my "cocktail" for many years, and it really, really works at keeping that anxiety at check.
*****I'll keep it in mind. Since I realized the related "Mom's illness & death" helplessness & grief, I haven't been feeling as anxious. I actually have been using Valerian over the last week & a half. Sometimes it worked; sometimes it
didn't. Mostly today I was just feeling really DOWN. BUT - after starting to read a book on codependency I started feeling a bit better - as if there might be hope. Years ago - 2000 actually - I started going to CoDependents Anonymous & it totally changed the way I looked at things. That group stopped a couple of years ago, so that's not an option. But I do have this book & a workbook that goes with it. I realize the my son is my 'drug' in a way - focussing on him....believing that if he gets HIS life in order, I'll feel OK & believing that I need to do whatEVER to 'help him'.****
> Don't lose yourself, or forget about yourself and your needs in all of this. The only way you can help your son is if you are really healthy.********that's what I have been doing - losing myself. Losing interest in things that generally interest me; totally focussing on my son. Sometimes I describe it as this: in the same way a compass needle points to North, my compass needle swings to my son. This, to me, seems like codependent behaviour & I want to change it.
Thanks for your support! :-) Kath*********
>
> Take care...and best...
> Jay
>
> > (I posted this last nite on the Parents board - no answers yet & I really need support right now. I think we can't post the same thing on 2 boards so maybe whoever checks this stuff can erase it from Parents board if necessary)
> >
> > Actually - it's the results for HIM of his unwise life choices that I find it hard to let go of....if I'm coming from a more intellectual level.
> >
> > - why can't he learn from his mistakes?
> > - why can't he see that he's ruining his life?
> > - how could I have failed so amazingly at being a parent?
> > - how can I extricate myself from this 'enmeshment' with him?
> >
> > I first joined PB in 2000 when I had started taking Celexa for anxiety due to my son's behaviour. He was around 16 at that point.
> > I've been off meds since about October. I've been doing reasonably well since then until his announcement a couple of weeks ago that he felt like simply walking away from everything with just the clothes on his back...
> >
> > Here he is 22 & STILL using drugs; STILL partying; STILL awake all nite & asleep all day; STILL NOT WANTING to WORK;
> >
> > The big difference is that he & his girlfriend have their own place. THAT is a MAJOR thing that's different.
> >
> > (Excuse all the upper-case letters; I just feel really exasperated)
> >
> > For several months he's had no job. His girlfriend works a couple of days a week. 2 weeks ago their gas was turned of because they have a $800. bill they haven't paid. Their April rent cheque hasn't been cashed yet, but they are expecting it'll bounce.
> >
> > I find it SOOOOOOOOOOOOO hard to detach....to not worry about the "natural consequences" that might happen.
> >
> > Why can't I just let go????? Instead of not thinking about him, it's as if his situation is in the back of my mind all the time. When I asked him how the 'job search' was going & mentioned to him a couple of local places that are hiring he said something like: "I feel like you & Dad are pressuring me to find a job - it's like when I lived at home; I might as well be living at home."
> >
> > I hate the thought of them having the stress of their rent-cheque bouncing. My mind does things like "oh jeez - then they'll be given their notice & will have nowhere to put all their belongings & will lose all their belongings" etc etc.
> >
> > What is wrong with me? I wish I could just DETACH.
> >
> > Has anyone had this type of thing to deal with? I feel so alone. So very alone in this.
> >
> > Any feedback is MOST welcome.
> >
> > Kath
> >
> > PS - I'm adding this as I move this to Social. It's rainy (not nice weather for the PB-ers who are in Toronto (I'm an hour North). It was actually Hailing!!!
> >
> > I'm still feeling alone. I can talk to my husband about it & he's supportive, but just doesn't get as emotionally involved as I do. I feel sad & lonely.
> >
> > Kath
>
>
Posted by AuntieMel on May 24, 2006, at 10:57:57
In reply to Re: Can't detach from 22yr old son's stupid choices... » Jay, posted by Kath on May 23, 2006, at 20:02:57
Well, it's not really important if he is 'addicted' to anything or not. The important thing is that he is *behaving* like someone who is addicted.
Are there al-anon groups there? They are like the co-dependency groups, but more widely available. Perhaps one of those would help you keep perspective.
It's so hard for a parent. I've seen it time and time again. The logical side of you says that bailing him out and helping him will only make it worse, but the 'mom' part of you just wants to kiss it and make it better.
The best - and most difficult thing - is to somehow merge the logical and emotional into a 'right' solution.
Posted by Kath on May 24, 2006, at 11:27:05
In reply to Re: Can't detach from 22yr old son's stupid choices... » Kath, posted by AuntieMel on May 24, 2006, at 10:57:57
Thanks AM - you're right - he IS acting like that & thanks for reminding me about Al-Anon. Good idea.
I haven't heard from or spoken to him since last Friday, which is good. The more I DON'T hear from him or know what's going on in his life, the better for me.
K
> Well, it's not really important if he is 'addicted' to anything or not. The important thing is that he is *behaving* like someone who is addicted.
>
> Are there al-anon groups there? They are like the co-dependency groups, but more widely available. Perhaps one of those would help you keep perspective.
>
> It's so hard for a parent. I've seen it time and time again. The logical side of you says that bailing him out and helping him will only make it worse, but the 'mom' part of you just wants to kiss it and make it better.
>
> The best - and most difficult thing - is to somehow merge the logical and emotional into a 'right' solution.
Posted by Jakeman on May 27, 2006, at 0:52:53
In reply to Re: Can't detach from 22yr old son's stupid choices... » fairywings, posted by Kath on May 22, 2006, at 16:38:14
Does he have a father?
warm regards. Jake
Posted by Kath on May 31, 2006, at 9:36:11
In reply to Re: Can't detach from 22yr old son's stupid choices... » Kath, posted by Jakeman on May 27, 2006, at 0:52:53
Hi Jake,
Sorry - I haven't been 'here' for a few days.
Yes he does. His 'bio-Dad' lives in B.C.
Just recently my son was in touch with him & seems to be starting a relationship with him. Bio-Dad left when son was 4 1/2 - very traumatic for son.Bio-Dad was very much a perfectionist. I started going out with a great guy when son was about 6. Married 3 years later. Step-Dad & son have had a good relationship. I wished S.D. spent more time with son as he got older though.
My husband has been through a LOT with 'our' son, but has always treated him as his own.
I've heard that that age is the worst for a boy to 'lose' his Dad.
Kath
PS - My son is now at least talking about getting a job!!!!!!! THAT's a big thing.
I'm doing better at being aware on a deeper level that it's his life & I might chose a different route on the roadmap of life it I were him, but everyone choses their own route. Hard to remember for me though!
I think a part of me still feels VERY sorry for that little 4 1/4 year old & some part of that flips forward into the 'now'.
Kath
> Does he have a father?
>
> warm regards. Jake
Posted by Jakeman on May 31, 2006, at 19:11:36
In reply to Re: Can't detach from 22yr old son's stupid choices... » Jakeman, posted by Kath on May 31, 2006, at 9:36:11
Kath,
I lost my father at an early age, I guess that's why I asked. It sounds like some promising things are happening and I hope it continues. I have no children, I talk with my friends about problems with their teenage or 20-something kids and I don't know how they deal with it. I always wished I had came from a happy, unbroken family. Now I know that many of those families are no better off. And I know how difficult it can be to make the transition from being a boy to a mature man.
Warm regards, Jake
> Hi Jake,
>
> Sorry - I haven't been 'here' for a few days.
>
> Yes he does. His 'bio-Dad' lives in B.C.
> Just recently my son was in touch with him & seems to be starting a relationship with him. Bio-Dad left when son was 4 1/2 - very traumatic for son.
>
> Bio-Dad was very much a perfectionist. I started going out with a great guy when son was about 6. Married 3 years later. Step-Dad & son have had a good relationship. I wished S.D. spent more time with son as he got older though.
>
> My husband has been through a LOT with 'our' son, but has always treated him as his own.
>
> I've heard that that age is the worst for a boy to 'lose' his Dad.
>
> Kath
>
> PS - My son is now at least talking about getting a job!!!!!!! THAT's a big thing.
>
> I'm doing better at being aware on a deeper level that it's his life & I might chose a different route on the roadmap of life it I were him, but everyone choses their own route. Hard to remember for me though!
>
> I think a part of me still feels VERY sorry for that little 4 1/4 year old & some part of that flips forward into the 'now'.
>
> Kath
>
>
> > Does he have a father?
> >
> > warm regards. Jake
>
>
This is the end of the thread.
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