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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 73 to 97 of 98. Go back in thread:
Posted by milly on May 12, 2006, at 15:54:06
In reply to I'm following through w/standing up to the bully., posted by TexasChic on May 11, 2006, at 20:22:16
Absolutely brilliant TC, you did the right thing and I'm so glad HR was so good with you. i'll be thinking about you tomorrow.
milly
Posted by ClearSkies on May 15, 2006, at 11:05:30
In reply to I'm following through w/standing up to the bully., posted by TexasChic on May 11, 2006, at 20:22:16
Posted by TexasChic on May 15, 2006, at 19:40:56
In reply to Thinking of you today. (nm) » TexasChic, posted by ClearSkies on May 15, 2006, at 11:05:30
Posted by TexasChic on May 17, 2006, at 19:27:10
In reply to Thanks! But she was out today. So tomorrow... (nm) » ClearSkies, posted by TexasChic on May 15, 2006, at 19:40:56
They finally called bitchygirl to HR today. She was back in 20 minutes in a seemingly good mood. All my supervisor would say was things went well and the atmosphere at work should improve now. I called the HR woman and she said the same adding that bitchygirl said she would watch her attitude. It sounds to me like she got a slap on the wrist and got away with saying she'll do better. Its driving me crazy because I don't know how much was said about me, how it was said, or if she even got wrote up. For some reason the whole thing just made me cry all the way home.
But I realize there's alot more bothering me. I had a very stressful work week that didn't even include bitchygirl. The girl that got mad at me and threw her book in the trash apparently got upset because I was talking to the guy who sits in front of me. They're mortal enemies for some reason or another. This guy is one of the few people I can talk to and trust a little bit. I know nothing about their feud. She just kept griping loudly that we were talking ALL DAY, even going so far as to go tell other people about it (who then told us). The whole thing was stupid because she and her buddies actually do talk all day. This is the first time she even noticed us talking after sitting in the same place for over a year. Yesterday, after bitching about him for a while, she said really loud, "She'll be sorry!" I was like, is that a prediction or a threat?
Then there's brother being gone, the anniversity of my Grandmother's death coming up, getting over cuteboy, weight gain, and I'm sure a bunch more stuff I can't think of right now.
On a positive note, I saw my pdoc today and she gave me a list of T's in my area. I went out driving around and located three of them closeby. One specializes in OCD, which I'm not sure is what I really need, another does biofeedback, which I've forgotten what that was, and the other just said he treats adults, couples, and adolcents. So I guess I'll see how it goes. I just know I need therapy more now than I have in a long time.
Oh, and I managed to get the software loaded that I needed to complete the test the guy gave me to do on the 'dream job' interview. So I'll be working on that for the next few days or so.
So that's it for now. I feel emotionally exhausted. On the way home I just kept thinking, am I crazy? My mom is definitely, my brother has gone over the edge in the last few years in a scary way, and my sister has always been very, very odd. Oh and of course, there's my late, insane father. I don't think I ever had a chance at being normal.
-T
Posted by Phillipa on May 17, 2006, at 22:12:30
In reply to Well finally., posted by TexasChic on May 17, 2006, at 19:27:10
What's normal? Love Phillipa
Posted by ClearSkies on May 18, 2006, at 8:21:51
In reply to Well finally., posted by TexasChic on May 17, 2006, at 19:27:10
I hope that your problems with BG are resolved. I identify so strongly with your experiences at work; my heart goes out to you. It seems like when I've given my "all" to a job, that my emotions have become hopelessly entangled in my efforts to do the best that I can. Separating my emotions - and the sincere wish that Everyone like to work with me - alsways seemed to come down to my pulling myself back from the job as a whole. It hasn't really accomplished what I've wanted it do.
Going to HR and making a formal complaint is a great step. It validates your feelings, in that someone else has done the same thing; and it lets you release some of the hurt you've felt. I really applaud you for doing it.
It might not make a difference in how she (BG) behaves. When I went through a similar experience, the improved behaviour lasted a couple of weeks, and then degenerated back into what I'd known and loathed.
Ultimately, I left that particular job for another, unrelated reason (I got the job that took me to the next step in my work.) I saw my BG in a market a year later, and felt the same dread grip me when I laid eyes on her. I screwed up my courage and said hello, do you remember me?
She said she'd left the company within weeks of my leaving, due to too much job stress and her personal issues. And that she knew that she'd been a horrible person to try to work with, and wished that she could have been nicer, but she hated her job so much, it spilled over in how she dealt with her coworkers.
It really opened up my eyes to the fact that many times, what we experience as difficulties with other people, are not due to us at all. And that many times it's that other person's problems that are being reflected in how they relate to us. This happened to me when I was fairly young (22 years old); but I've learned the same lesson over and over in places I've worked.So I just want to say that I'm impressed with what you've done. And to keep in mind that it's a reminder that this is probably not about you at all, but about BG and her problems.
ClearSkies
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 18, 2006, at 10:19:59
In reply to Well finally., posted by TexasChic on May 17, 2006, at 19:27:10
> They finally called bitchygirl to HR today. She was back in 20 minutes in a seemingly good mood.... For some reason the whole thing just made me cry all the way home.
For some reason? Do you not know what that reason is?
I think your HR staff person handled the situation beautifully. The whole intent of the HR person's job is to smoothe things out.
Here's how a good manager handles this sort of interpersonal thing. It's called the hamburger method. You give a bun of praise, the meat of the criticism, and the bun of praise again. If necessary, the HR person adds some toppings (special praise), if the meat was choking the person being criticized.
Bitchygirl came out smiling, because the HR person won't end the interview until that's the case.
If I may be so bold, you cried from your expectations not being met. You keep expecting things that won't happen.
Expectations are premeditated disappointments.
I'm glad you're so open about all of this. I hope my comment does not hurt you. I'd like you to try and look at things differently. I'm sorry, if I misread the situation.
Lar
Posted by TexasChic on May 18, 2006, at 15:56:02
In reply to Re: Well finally. » TexasChic, posted by ClearSkies on May 18, 2006, at 8:21:51
Today I found out she did in fact get written up, and because of a previous write up I didn't know about, they told her that if they get any more complaints she's fired. I really had to work the grapevine to find that out. I feel much better about the whole thing now.
Another thing I was told was that she's mad at the other girl, and probably doesn't think I was involved since our incident was a couple of months ago. That's a relief, but I also don't want to shirk my part in the whole thing. I'll keep my mouth shut, but I won't lie about it if asked. And I won't stand by and watch the other girl take all the blame. I have no idea what I would say or do in a situation like that, I just know doing nothing would not be an option.
Thanks for everyone's encouragement and advice!! You helped me out more than I can say.
-T
Posted by TexasChic on May 18, 2006, at 16:24:33
In reply to Re: Well finally. » TexasChic, posted by ClearSkies on May 18, 2006, at 8:21:51
> I hope that your problems with BG are resolved. I identify so strongly with your experiences at work; my heart goes out to you. It seems like when I've given my "all" to a job, that my emotions have become hopelessly entangled in my efforts to do the best that I can.
I understand that completely. I've been trying to learn how to keep my work separate from my REAL life. Its a hard thing to do.
> It might not make a difference in how she (BG) behaves. When I went through a similar experience, the improved behaviour lasted a couple of weeks, and then degenerated back into what I'd known and loathed.
I have a feeling that's exactly what's going to happen. Other people have voiced that too. Plus, even though she was nice to me today, she talked bad about the other girl alot. She just doesn't have enough sense to shut up!
> So I just want to say that I'm impressed with what you've done. And to keep in mind that it's a reminder that this is probably not about you at all, but about BG and her problems.
Thank you. And yes, I've already been working out the psyhcology in my head of what must be wrong with her. She must feel extremely bad about herself.On a more positive note, today I asked a couple of people if they want to get together for drinks after work sometime. They said, "Sure!" I don't know why I never thought of them before, I guess I just thought they wouldn't be interested. I also asked some of the other outsiders, and some of the guys that stayed pretty neutral throughout this whole situation, and they're all for it! At first I was was thinking, "it'll just be us and then they'll know what it feels like to be left out" (imagine evil laugh). But the other girl (victim) said, "Lets not reduce ourselves to their level". And I was like, oh my God! I can't believe my brain went in that direction without my even realizing it. I know good and well that's not the person I want to be. I felt like a complete idiot after she said that.
I really appreciate all your support throughout this. I realize its not all over yet, but I think I've jumped the biggest hurdle.
-T
Posted by TexasChic on May 18, 2006, at 16:40:30
In reply to Re: Well finally. » TexasChic, posted by Larry Hoover on May 18, 2006, at 10:19:59
> Here's how a good manager handles this sort of interpersonal thing. It's called the hamburger method. You give a bun of praise, the meat of the criticism, and the bun of praise again. If necessary, the HR person adds some toppings (special praise), if the meat was choking the person being criticized.
>
> Bitchygirl came out smiling, because the HR person won't end the interview until that's the case.That makes alot of sense!
> If I may be so bold, you cried from your expectations not being met. You keep expecting things that won't happen.
Yes, that's exactly it.
> Expectations are premeditated disappointments.
But how do you keep your mind from going there? I don't know how to stop thinking about what the outcome will be in a situation. I do recognize this as a problem of mine. I've realized before that I sometimes live in a fantasy world. Its definitely something I need to work on.
> I'm glad you're so open about all of this. I hope my comment does not hurt you. I'd like you to try and look at things differently. I'm sorry, if I misread the situation.
No, I understand what you're saying. I always know your posts will make me look deep inside myself and think really really hard. And because I know this is part of your personality, I recognize you're trying to help and not hurt. I do appreciate it. :-)
-T
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 18, 2006, at 22:18:54
In reply to Re: Well finally. » Larry Hoover, posted by TexasChic on May 18, 2006, at 16:40:30
> > Bitchygirl came out smiling, because the HR person won't end the interview until that's the case.
>
> That makes alot of sense!Good. :-)
>
> > If I may be so bold, you cried from your expectations not being met. You keep expecting things that won't happen.
>
> Yes, that's exactly it.
>
> > Expectations are premeditated disappointments.
>
> But how do you keep your mind from going there?You can rephrase it, in your head/heart. Wouldn't it be nice if, is a lot different from, I really really hope....
Just recognizing you're doing it, is a big step. You have to recognize what needs adjusting before the adjustment will work.
That's a big thing in 12-step work. Just for today. One day at a time.
It's fine to fantasize. But it's better to wait and see what happens before you feel it.
> I don't know how to stop thinking about what the outcome will be in a situation. I do recognize this as a problem of mine. I've realized before that I sometimes live in a fantasy world. Its definitely something I need to work on.That's 80% of the job, or more, already done.
> > I'm glad you're so open about all of this. I hope my comment does not hurt you. I'd like you to try and look at things differently. I'm sorry, if I misread the situation.
>
> No, I understand what you're saying. I always know your posts will make me look deep inside myself and think really really hard. And because I know this is part of your personality, I recognize you're trying to help and not hurt. I do appreciate it. :-)
>
> -TThank you. Sometimes I can be too blunt. I dunno. I'm working on that. ;-)
Lar
Posted by TexasChic on May 19, 2006, at 15:49:31
In reply to Re: Well finally. » TexasChic, posted by Larry Hoover on May 18, 2006, at 22:18:54
> You can rephrase it, in your head/heart. Wouldn't it be nice if, is a lot different from, I really really hope....
Wow, that's perfect! Seriously! I need to put that on a card and carry it with me.
Thanks for helping me figure that out. I knew I was doing to something to sabotage myself, and I kind of knew what it was, but it was all confused with my emotions. This is definitely something I need to work on with my new T (when I get one).
-T
Posted by TexasChic on May 20, 2006, at 21:49:04
In reply to Re: Well finally. » Larry Hoover, posted by TexasChic on May 19, 2006, at 15:49:31
I know this is stupid. Please don't tell me how stupid I'm being. My friend that used to work with me but moved to San Fransisco emailed me today. He said he and cuteboy 'talked' through email about the argument we had (he didn't go into any details). Why the hell would cuteboy write him about that? Maybe he was just afraid I was going to go psycho on him or something. He wanted to find out from a friend if I'm dangerous. He couldn't possibly care enough to write someone and ask for advice about me. It has to be something else. He's shown me in so many ways that he doesn't give a damn about me. Maybe he just likes to think of himself as a 'good guy' and me being mad at him is spoiling that. Whatever, I hate him.
Or, and this is most likely, my friend was the one who wrote cuteboy after he read my emotional email. He probably wrote him to say, "What the hell did you do to T?" Yeah, that's got to be it.
I wish he would write back, I told him I'd like to know what was said if he's okay with that. I'm just so stupid.
-T
Posted by TexasChic on May 22, 2006, at 16:20:05
In reply to This is stupid., posted by TexasChic on May 20, 2006, at 21:49:04
My Mom called and says my brother is coming down and needs someplace to stay, and of course she suggested me. I kept asking 'how long', and she kept saying 'not very long'. Its not that I don't want to help my brother, but I live in an efficiency apartment (basically one room), and my brother and all his problems stress me out. I've had to distance myself the last few years because of this and it hasn't been easy.
My Mom has a small apartment too, but her logic is I have a couch and she doesn't. I feel bad, like I shouldn't feel this way, but its got me so upset I think I'll have to take a Zanax.
Plus she was doing what she usually does, not taking no for an answer by making me feel bad. Push, push, push until I give in. I hate when she tries to manipulate me like that. She kept saying he doesn't have anyplace to stay. I just kept saying, well why can't he stay with you? She kept changing the subject.
!@#$%
-T
Posted by wildcardII on May 22, 2006, at 16:40:14
In reply to My family is insane and wants me to join them., posted by TexasChic on May 22, 2006, at 16:20:05
maybe suggest to mom that an air mattress wld. be more comfortable for your brother at HER house?...
Posted by ClearSkies on May 22, 2006, at 16:42:39
In reply to My family is insane and wants me to join them., posted by TexasChic on May 22, 2006, at 16:20:05
This doesn't sound like a good thing for you right now. You don't have the room, you don't know how long it would be for, and it just doesn't sound wise to me.
CS
Posted by Kath on May 22, 2006, at 16:50:16
In reply to My family is insane and wants me to join them., posted by TexasChic on May 22, 2006, at 16:20:05
Families can be huge sources of stress, can't they!
There's a great book called "When I Say No I Feel Guilty". It's worth a look at, even for the Assertive Bill of Rights at the front. There's often a copy or 2 at used book stores.
I bet it would 'arm' you with some good strategies to deal with your Mom.
When will your brother be arriving? How old is he (if you feel like saying).
:-) Kath
Posted by Kath on May 22, 2006, at 16:52:28
In reply to Re: My family is insane and wants me to join them. » TexasChic, posted by wildcardII on May 22, 2006, at 16:40:14
and that it would give them a lovely chance to visit.
K
> maybe suggest to mom that an air mattress wld. be more comfortable for your brother at HER house?...
Posted by TexasChic on May 22, 2006, at 18:24:01
In reply to Re: My family is insane and wants me to join them., posted by Kath on May 22, 2006, at 16:52:28
Thanks everyone. I'll look for that book the next time I'm at the bookstore. It sounds perfect. And I'll tell my Mom about the air mattress idea, I think my sister might have one.
And thanks for the advice and encouragement everyone. Its good to have someone else tell you that your not being selfish. Its hard getting over being a people pleaser. You always worry that you're being unreasonably selfish.
-T
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 23, 2006, at 8:36:48
In reply to My family is insane and wants me to join them., posted by TexasChic on May 22, 2006, at 16:20:05
> Plus she was doing what she usually does, not taking no for an answer by making me feel bad.
That is a perfect example of conditional love. What you need to do is reject anything that isn't unconditional love. The answer has to be no. End.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 23, 2006, at 8:42:13
In reply to Re: My family is insane and wants me to join them., posted by TexasChic on May 22, 2006, at 18:24:01
> Its good to have someone else tell you that your not being selfish.
It's good that you're starting to realize the unspoken messages in these family dealings.
I have a mantra, seldom used any more (I got good at it), that is slightly different than the version you've probably heard before. It goes like: "My feelings are not subject to questioning, by anyone. Even me."
Feelings just are. All the rest is thinking. You can change the thinking.
No means no. It should be the end. Oh dear, I just should on you.
No means no. End.
I learned to hang up on my mom. She hears no now.
Lar
Posted by wildcardII on May 23, 2006, at 8:55:19
In reply to Re: My family is insane and wants me to join them. » TexasChic, posted by Larry Hoover on May 23, 2006, at 8:42:13
~No means no. End.
~I learned to hang up on my mom. She hears no now.
yep, i quit speaking to mine at all b/c she refused to hear 'NO'...
Posted by TexasChic on May 23, 2006, at 17:03:42
In reply to Re: My family is insane and wants me to join them. » TexasChic, posted by Larry Hoover on May 23, 2006, at 8:42:13
Thanks you guys!
Now I have two Larry mantras:
"Expectations are premeditated disappointments."
"My feelings are not subject to questioning, by anyone. Even me."
It helps to know other people have gone through this. What makes our mothers that way?
My old T helped me with stuff like this, but I guess I need a refresher course. (Although, I am a long way from where I once was - no self esteem or independence AT ALL). I need to find a new T soon. I'd like to find one that can also help me with expecting things out of people and being disappointed. Its all got to be related somehow. What would you call that anyway, 'interaction skills'? I just had a scary thought, am I somehow acting like my mother in social situations?
8-o That's my attempt at a screaming face.-T
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 23, 2006, at 17:31:02
In reply to Thanks!, posted by TexasChic on May 23, 2006, at 17:03:42
> Thanks you guys!
>
> Now I have two Larry mantras:
>
> "Expectations are premeditated disappointments."
>
> "My feelings are not subject to questioning, by anyone. Even me."
>
> It helps to know other people have gone through this. What makes our mothers that way?Their mothers?
> My old T helped me with stuff like this, but I guess I need a refresher course. (Although, I am a long way from where I once was - no self esteem or independence AT ALL). I need to find a new T soon. I'd like to find one that can also help me with expecting things out of people and being disappointed. Its all got to be related somehow. What would you call that anyway, 'interaction skills'?
I think that if you wanted to research the idea more, you might want to look at what is called locus of control. Internal locus of control is the attribution of life events to those things you control, whereas external locus of control is outside influences holding sway. There is no right answer, but it helps to start the insight pathway.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locus_of_control
http://itech.fgcu.edu/cgi-bin/lchallenges/survey/locus.htmlAnother related concept is attribution style.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_Attribution_Error
> I just had a scary thought, am I somehow acting like my mother in social situations?
That's your primary model, unless you have (presumably) consciously made changes.
> 8-o That's my attempt at a screaming face.
>
> -TNot wanting to be my dad was my primary stimulus to changing how I was.
Lar
Posted by wildcardII on May 23, 2006, at 17:35:00
In reply to Re: Thanks! » TexasChic, posted by Larry Hoover on May 23, 2006, at 17:31:02
~since i can recall i have made a conscious effort to NEVER be in any way like my mother...it worked.
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