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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by anya on February 8, 2004, at 0:43:59
something happened to me a while ago and i do not know what it was. im going to tell the full story with no added detail. just the truth of what happened.
i warn you that there will be i guess explicit details so dont read if you get offended easy.
i met this guy, doesnt matter how. we hit it off and i went to his place in his car. i left my car behind. i didnt know where i was or how to get back to my car. when we got there i told him i was on my period. i was. we drank wine. only a glass each. his housemate was home. i decided to leave. we went outside to his car. we kissed. his hand was suddenly in my pants. i said no. he was pushing a tampon too far inside me. i shoved him off into a fence. demanded he take me to my car immediately or let me inside again to use the bathroom. he took me inside. put me in a laundry without a light or lock with a toilet. i removed tampon. came out. followed him upstairs to his bedroom. his housemate was in next room. i undressed myself. he undressed. we had sex. at some point he pushed my head down. held it down until i gave oral sex. all through he shh-ed at me. then took me back to my car.
my friend thinks rape. i dont think anything that bad. rape is brutal worse.
still i feel worse than pus.
Posted by Elle2021 on February 8, 2004, at 1:27:09
In reply to i have a problem, posted by anya on February 8, 2004, at 0:43:59
Okay, lets start at the beginning. Rape is a serious accusation. This guy sounds like a real jerk, but you've left out some important details.
>we kissed. his hand was suddenly in my pants. i said no.
You said no. Okay, he didn't stop, correct?
he was pushing a tampon too far inside me. i shoved him off into a fence.
I am so sorry that happened to you. I can only imagine how terribly painful that was.
> followed him upstairs to his bedroom.
You followed him voluntarily? Did he force you up into his bedroom?
>i undressed myself.
Willingly? Did he threaten you in any way?
>we had sex.
Did you say no? Bottom line, did you want to have sex? Did you resist?
at some point he pushed my head down. held it down until i gave oral sex. all through he shh-ed at me. then took me back to my car.
Again, did you say no?
Instead of getting advice here, I really, strongly advise you to immediately speak with your therapist or a counselor. Or even speak to a police officer. Or take yourself to the hospital, they have crisis counselors there that can help you. This is a job for a professional. Please get the help you need as soon as possible. I'm so sorry this happened.
Elle
Posted by fallsfall on February 8, 2004, at 10:01:32
In reply to i have a problem, posted by anya on February 8, 2004, at 0:43:59
I'm so sorry.
I agree with Elle, please talk with someone. There are rape crisis numbers in the phone book. You might want to start there.
Posted by riken on February 8, 2004, at 13:49:17
In reply to Re: i have a problem » anya, posted by fallsfall on February 8, 2004, at 10:01:32
the mere fact that you have to ask tells me this did not feel right to you. my advise, talk to a counselor, or someone you trust but this guy seems to be bad news. please stay away from him, i was not there but it almost sounds to me like he put something in your drink which kept you from making any rational decisions at the time. i'm a guy and as a guy i say he's not someone i would want around someone i cared for. just my dos centavos.
Posted by pegasus on February 8, 2004, at 16:04:57
In reply to i have a problem, posted by anya on February 8, 2004, at 0:43:59
Whether or not you said no, if you didn't want this sexual contact (or any single part of it), and if you somehow communicated that to this guy by what you said or did, then what he did is definitely considered sexual assault. Just the tampon incident is sexual assault in most states. This is serious stuff. I agree with everyone that it would be good if you could call a sexual assault hotline in your area for support from trained counselors. If you can't find an appropriate local number, and if you are in the U.S., then you can call RAINN (1-800-656-4673) which is a national 24-hour hotline. You can also check out their web site to find a local hotline (www.rainn.org). The hotline counselors can talk the whole thing over with you, and help you in a lot of ways. Please take care of yourself. If you can't find a hotline in your area, feel free to post again, and I'll try to help you.
-p
Posted by gardenergirl on February 8, 2004, at 16:28:48
In reply to i have a problem, posted by anya on February 8, 2004, at 0:43:59
Anya,
I'm so sorry this happened to you. It's very confusing and painful, I'm sure. I know it was for me when something similar happened to me. I also wondered whether to call it rape. What I have learned over time is that I *was* assaulted. I believe you were too, from your description. Whether it meets a legal standard of rape is not important right now. What IS important is that you talk to someone who can help. Many people recommended a rape crisis hotline. That's a good choice. Please don't be scared about this. As painful as it is right now, talking about it with a trained professional will help. If you feel you can't call the hotline, please call your T right now. This is a time when you need as much support as you can get from sensitive people.Please take extra special care of yourself, and let others take care of you, too. And keep posting if it helps, we care about you. But also consult professionals, who are trained best to help.
(((((anya)))))
gg
Posted by fayeroe on February 8, 2004, at 17:46:32
In reply to i have a problem, posted by anya on February 8, 2004, at 0:43:59
I think he may have given you something. I hope you do something about this. Best....
Posted by 8 Miles on February 8, 2004, at 19:36:09
In reply to i have a problem, posted by anya on February 8, 2004, at 0:43:59
First, I too am very sorry that you had to suffer this terrible event. My feelings are mixed as to what to say. Not being a woman, I cannot, perhaps, provide as empathetic a response. To me, what happened to you falls more closely under "date rape" than "sexual assault rape". Whereas you *probably* would have some legal problems proving what happened, and what you wanted/didn't want to happen vs.what actually happened to the authorities, it may still need to be reported to them if for no other reason than to provide info in case this snake is a sexual preditor. From the little I have been able to piece together, I also wonder if there may have been a drug in your wine. I also think the "did you say no?" question, unfortunately,is very critical as to defining what happened to you in a legal context. Even if you were in the wrong place at the wrong time, and may not have used your best judgment, there are still actions taken that were essentially assault. Proving it would be exceedingly difficult though. This sort of action is a blight on our culture, and further demonstrates that men will continue to lord over women using fear and power (as they have for centuries) to destroy them. Your only viable option now is to find the right counseling so that you can try to begin the healing process. If you address it now, and can find catharsis, maybe, and hopefully, it will not be a shadow looming over you affecting your other life choices. I know from personal experience, that something like this can destroy a marriage, a family and even the will to live if it goes unabated and unresolved. Find the root causes that allowed you to be in this sort of situation. You have value. Please find that value in yourself. I hope this is helpful for you to read.
8
Posted by pegasus on February 8, 2004, at 21:44:02
In reply to hard choices, posted by 8 Miles on February 8, 2004, at 19:36:09
I agree with GG that the legal definition is not what Anya really needs to worry about right now. The main thing is to get support, and it would be really good to talk to a rape crisis counselor and/or therapist.
And yet, I feel obligated to mention that saying no is not required for a legal definition of sexual assault in most jurisdictions. Also, there is no legal separation of "date rape" and "sexual assault rape" as 8 miles implies. The critical thing is just whether it was consensual. If not, it's sexual assault, whether you were on a date or not. The only excuse for nonconsensual sex is if the initiator had some reasonable grounds for believing it was consensual. For example, if the non-initiator actually said "yes", and wasn't being forced or drugged or something.
Really, IMO, in a perfect world, it should be incumbent on the person initiating the sex to establish that the act is consensual. Just not hearing a "no" doesn't seem good enough to me. What about asking for a "yes"? Nicely and with patience? And hearing her if she says no?
Ok, off my soapbox now. Thanks for being supportive 8 mile, and recognizing the scourge these kinds of actions are on our society, both male and female.
- p
Posted by Anya on February 9, 2004, at 1:10:49
In reply to Re: hard choices » 8 Miles, posted by pegasus on February 8, 2004, at 21:44:02
thanks for replying. after i used the laundry i did not say no. i did not say no when he held down my head. i think i resisted, tho. it all happened last year around easter. i question my recollection. wonder if ive made it worse in my head than it was.
other than resisting him pushing my head and saying no outside, i doubt i gave any indication of no. how could he know to stop if i didnt say? so legally i know its not rape. i wouldnt report it. as elle said rape is a serious allegation.
its all confused. maybe i was drugged? maybe i just did not make the brave or right choice.
thanks for listening, replying.
Posted by Elle2021 on February 9, 2004, at 1:30:33
In reply to Re: hard choices, posted by Anya on February 9, 2004, at 1:10:49
>as elle said rape is a serious allegation.
I did say it was a serious allegation, however, if you feel you have been raped, then you need to talk to a professional. A professional can give you better information then any of us can. I really hope that you talk to a counselor, preferably one who specializes in rape. This is an important issue that has the possiblity to affect you for the rest of your life. Please get help Anya. I'm here for you if you need to talk.
Elle
Posted by dragonfly25 on February 9, 2004, at 7:14:27
In reply to Re: hard choices, posted by Anya on February 9, 2004, at 1:10:49
Whatever it is, it was still something you didn't want. you made it clear several times. In my mind that is assault and the more detailed terminalogy doesn't matter. It is how you feel. It sounds like you should really go and talk to someone. I might have missed it when reading, but have you? Or just your friend? It also doesn't matter that much if you are making it worse in your head (unless dramaticly, but I doubt that).....if you know something happened that felt against your will it isn't right. And it isn't about brave decisions at all! From what I read it sounded like you did all *you* could do at the time. You were obviously scared before it happened? Anyway I just wanted to tell you all of that and that I really hope you go talk to someone.
take care
dragonfly
Posted by pegasus on February 9, 2004, at 14:59:39
In reply to i have a problem, posted by anya on February 8, 2004, at 0:43:59
Yes, Anya, I'm sorry to have muddied the water with the question of legal definitions. I think the important thing is that you're feeling bad about what happened, and you have questions, and could use some support. Really, a hotline or therapist will be able to help you whether or not what happened fits into any specific legal definition. Please look for help. Let us know if you need help finding it.
And we'll be happy to help you as well, but most of us aren't professionals, and this is the kind of thing that I'd feel a lot more comfortable if you were talking to a professional also.
- p
Posted by Elle2021 on February 9, 2004, at 21:28:24
In reply to Re: i have a problem, posted by pegasus on February 9, 2004, at 14:59:39
> Yes, Anya, I'm sorry to have muddied the water with the question of legal definitions.
I would never try to trivialize someone's pain, but I thought what she was looking for was whether or not the people here considered it rape by legal definitions. I thought your post was helpful.
Elle
Posted by Kath on February 10, 2004, at 9:16:03
In reply to i have a problem, posted by anya on February 8, 2004, at 0:43:59
Sweetie - If it feels like rape, it was rape. Even if the other part wasn't "forced", the oral part was certainly forced.
But you know what? It's just 'semantics' - words. The thing that matters is that you do NOT feel okay. Your feelings are your feelings and they are ALWAYS RIGHT. ALWAYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Feelings can never be wrong.
(Even if I feel, for example, hate for my child.....it's a FEELING. It's not okay for me to hurt my child in ANY way, but my feeling is right for me......something has obviously happened that is not okay with me & has resulted in me feeling that hate.)Anyway, back to you. You were pressured into doing something that you didn't want to do. Who knows why you did it - maybe you were scared; maybe you were embarrassed; maybe you were abused earlier in your life & carry that helpless feeling inside you. Bottom line is that you did NOT do anything wrong & he DID!!!!!!!!!
Nobody has the right to pressure someone else into being sexual. Nobody.
I'd suggest that if you can't get your head around it being rape, don't worry about that part hunny. Just be in touch with your feelings that you fell AWFUL!!!!!!!!!!
Please try to contact a Rape Crisis Centre - you don't need to have been "raped" to ask for them to help you about a situation where you were sexually abused (which you were, even if only the forced oral part). If there's no Rape Crisis Centre, try to find a Women's Centre. Phone your nearest hospital, tell them you (or say it was a friend if you don't feel okay saying it was you) were sexually assaulted & need to talk to a trained professional. If the person you speak to is not kind & helpful, ask to speak to someone else, if you have the nerve to, "I don't feel supported in this conversation. I'm asking you for your help, but if this is uncomfortable for you, could I please speak to someone else"
You definitely deserve to have some support around this awful thing that happened to you. I think you could use some help in taking care of yourself & keeping safe. I am not blaming you in any way, but some of us do NOT have opportunities to LEARN to take good care of ourselves. Often we learn, growing up, that we have no 'say' in things - that we have to do what others want us to do.
I wish you the best in getting help to deal with this trauma.
Hugs, Kath
> something happened to me a while ago and i do not know what it was. im going to tell the full story with no added detail. just the truth of what happened.
>
> i warn you that there will be i guess explicit details so dont read if you get offended easy.
>
> i met this guy, doesnt matter how. we hit it off and i went to his place in his car. i left my car behind. i didnt know where i was or how to get back to my car. when we got there i told him i was on my period. i was. we drank wine. only a glass each. his housemate was home. i decided to leave. we went outside to his car. we kissed. his hand was suddenly in my pants. i said no. he was pushing a tampon too far inside me. i shoved him off into a fence. demanded he take me to my car immediately or let me inside again to use the bathroom. he took me inside. put me in a laundry without a light or lock with a toilet. i removed tampon. came out. followed him upstairs to his bedroom. his housemate was in next room. i undressed myself. he undressed. we had sex. at some point he pushed my head down. held it down until i gave oral sex. all through he shh-ed at me. then took me back to my car.
>
> my friend thinks rape. i dont think anything that bad. rape is brutal worse.
>
> still i feel worse than pus.
Posted by Kath on February 10, 2004, at 9:29:19
In reply to Re: hard choices, posted by Anya on February 9, 2004, at 1:10:49
(((((((((((((((((Anya))))))))))))))))))))
Just the fact that this happened last Easter shows how traumatic it was for you.
Don't get into your head about what did I say; what didn't I say; how would he know; - all that stuff doesn't matter hun. The fact is that you said 'no' outside AND you resisted having your head pushed. He doesn't have to be a brilliant brain surgeon to understand what those 2 reactions on your part mean!!!!!!! Also - you didn't ask to be pushed into a laundry room without a light. You asked to use the phone!!!!!!!
What matters is that you didn't feel okay about it. AND that it is still traumatic & unresolved.
Good for you, for talking about it.
It really does need to be resolved. You need some professional help about this. The various suggestions made here are valid.....help doesn't need to be sought right at the time of the event. It's so wonderful to have men offering you kind support & their suggesitons, as well as women.
Please seek professional help around this event. You need to heal. As I said, the fact that you still feel DREADFUL about it speaks loud & clear that you still have a lot of pain about this. You deserve to have the help to heal this.
hugs, Kath
> thanks for replying. after i used the laundry i did not say no. i did not say no when he held down my head. i think i resisted, tho. it all happened last year around easter. i question my recollection. wonder if ive made it worse in my head than it was.
>
> other than resisting him pushing my head and saying no outside, i doubt i gave any indication of no. how could he know to stop if i didnt say? so legally i know its not rape. i wouldnt report it. as elle said rape is a serious allegation.
>
> its all confused. maybe i was drugged? maybe i just did not make the brave or right choice.
>
> thanks for listening, replying.
This is the end of the thread.
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