Psycho-Babble Social Thread 253655

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He called to say he wouldn't be calling...

Posted by kara lynne on August 24, 2003, at 20:32:49

anymore. The ex left a couple of messages in the last few days. He started out with 'so sad you don't want to be my friend', which I found easy not to reply to. Then he just said he missed me, both in emails and in phone messages. I did not call him back, although it was very difficult not to. I wanted to tell him I miss him too, but I don't think it would do any good, and it would just hook me back in. If he came to me and said he wanted to work on the relationship, that he missed me and wanted to do something about it--maybe then it would mean something.

So I didn't answer. And today he left the message that he would not be contacting me anymore, but it will be hard because he misses me.

What am I supposed to do with that? I guess nothing. Maybe I can comfort myself by thinking that if there is anything real between us it will survive. Or maybe I will just think I've blown my last chance.

 

Re: He called to say he wouldn't be calling...

Posted by Sabina on August 24, 2003, at 21:50:10

In reply to He called to say he wouldn't be calling..., posted by kara lynne on August 24, 2003, at 20:32:49

i was once in a similar situation, though with a very different kind of guy. nonetheless, on the evening of the "call to say it was the final call" i remember being filled with a sense of dread like the one you mentioned: that i'd blown my last chance.

still, at the back of my mind was a sense of relief that it might all be over - finally and blessedly o-ver. somehow, on some level, i knew i'd finally had enough and that i'd rather risk being alone than living in that hellish, mind *&%@ of a relationship.

i relalized he wasn't doing those bad things to me. i was allowing someone to do them to me, and what a difference there was between the two.

the beautiful thing about the pain of finality is that it frees you to start again and make more self preserving choices in the future.

i don't know if that helps or not, but it was that way with me and, in the end, a good thing. i can't imagine my life now if i'd stayed in that terrible relationship.

 

Thank you Sabina.

Posted by kara lynne on August 24, 2003, at 22:35:34

In reply to Re: He called to say he wouldn't be calling..., posted by Sabina on August 24, 2003, at 21:50:10

yes, that dread is making me sit on my hands not to call him. But I have to believe he knows what it would take to make a difference and he's not doing it.

I've gone this long without calling him. We broke up two months ago and had an initial email flurry which just exacerbated the wounds. I did talk to him then, but it upset me every time. There was talk of getting counseling, but no real effort on his part. Then there were sporadic messages lately that I didn't answer. But there is always that last vestige of hope in any communication...

It's the finality I really have to face. I want him to call so badly and say he loves me and he'll do whatever it takes to make the relationship work. But it's not going to happen. This relationship is not going to happen.

I hope one day soon I'll stop hoping. I hope one day soon to be so distracted by someone new that I don't even notice.

Thanks Sabina.

 

Re: He called to say he wouldn't be calling... kara lynne

Posted by fallsfall on August 24, 2003, at 22:52:53

In reply to He called to say he wouldn't be calling..., posted by kara lynne on August 24, 2003, at 20:32:49

I am so, so proud of you. You have such courage.

Let the finality sink in. You have done so well.

 

And then he emailed me!

Posted by kara lynne on August 27, 2003, at 0:46:43

In reply to Re: He called to say he wouldn't be calling... kara lynne, posted by fallsfall on August 24, 2003, at 22:52:53

And said he missed me!! Oh, this is hard. I wanted to tell him that I miss him too. I really want to tell him that I miss him too.

But I guess that's not enough. He misses me...

...and?
?
?
?

 

Re: And then he emailed me! kara lynne

Posted by fallsfall on August 27, 2003, at 9:33:20

In reply to And then he emailed me!, posted by kara lynne on August 27, 2003, at 0:46:43

So you say to yourself: "See, I am lovable" and then you don't call him and you don't email him.

He is torturing you. Stay focused on where you want to go. I know you can do it.

P.S. I have a set of metal jacks if you want them. We'd just need to get in email contact.

 

Re: And then he emailed me!

Posted by Tabitha on August 27, 2003, at 11:55:23

In reply to And then he emailed me!, posted by kara lynne on August 27, 2003, at 0:46:43

You're exactly right-- he misses you... but so what? If you saw him he might be on his best behavior for a little while, but then he'd just revert to his old self. And the more history you have, the quicker the old self comes out. Stay strong, you're doing great!

I miss my 'ex' lately, but I just keep going through the fantasy of what it would REALLY be like to see him. Remembering why I was so relieved to be out of the relationship. That kills the fantasy pretty quick.

 

Re: And then he emailed me!

Posted by kara lynne on August 27, 2003, at 13:54:36

In reply to Re: And then he emailed me! kara lynne, posted by fallsfall on August 27, 2003, at 9:33:20

Oh thanks, guys. I have a friend who, although her intentions are good, would almost have me believing those messages are veiled marriage proposals: 'That's the best he can do, he probably forgot all about yelling at you, he thinks this is trying', etc. etc. (I've stopped telling her for the most part.)

Thank you, fallsfall. He is torturing me. What the h*ll is this:
'"You don't want to be my friend."
"Ok, I'm never going to call you again."
"But wait, it's Sunday night and I'd rather be spending it with you."

Yes, it's torture. That somehow makes it easier for me get angry about rather than morosely missing him. I wish it did mean I was loveable that's he's (lamely) trying to contact me, but it's probably him wanting to mess with me again for whatever fuel that provided his ego. And Tabitha I'm sure you're right. If we did get together it might be great for a minute or two and that can be so seductive...how nice it would be...but I think we would slip back sooner than you could say Bad Kara.

I realized yesterday it's easier to do this (like most things) day at a time. When I think, 'What if I never talk to him again?!', it's too much. If I think, 'What if I don't talk to him right now', it's more manageable. A little.

Fallsfall, how would we arrange that illicit jack transaction? Maybe I should take a stroll into Toys R Us today and I'll get lucky. You are too sweet to get those for me and zen. It was so funny to see that someone else noticed they were hard to come by!

 

Re: And then he emailed me! kara lynne

Posted by fallsfall on August 27, 2003, at 14:13:38

In reply to Re: And then he emailed me!, posted by kara lynne on August 27, 2003, at 13:54:36

Hey, Kara.

You can look at Toys R Us. Or you can send me an email at Babble Fallsfall at hotmail.com. This isn't my regular email account, so let me know if you send something so I'll be sure to check it.

One day at a time works. Don't call him. Don't email him. You are doing SOOOOO well.

 

fallsfall

Posted by kara lynne on August 28, 2003, at 1:22:14

In reply to Re: And then he emailed me! kara lynne, posted by fallsfall on August 27, 2003, at 14:13:38

Today I had a really good session with my counselor, who fed me back with no holds barred what my life was like when I was with the ex. She spared not a word. She said 'You were what he did in his spare moments', which was true--and there were not a lot of them. The rest of the time he was making excuses not to show up (in all ways) and invariably blaming me for it all.

We went over in detail how he had to have calculated the things he said to me at the end; it wasn't just anger, it was methodical cruelty. I was reminded how really, the relationship died for me that night he looked me in the eye and told me I did not deserve love and would never find it. Granted, he ran over the body the next day with the phone conversation where he dessimated every aspect of my character, but that he could look me in the eye and tell me the things he did--it was over in that moment. Honestly I don't think anything he could ever do or say would make up for that. My counselor said there is a *reason* for that. Maybe it is because I am not supposed to 'get over' it.

But he isn't even trying! *Maybe* if he had come to me and truly aplogized, humbled himself and made an effort I could have been talked into it. You see how shaky my resolve is, and I would have loved for things to have been made 'all better now'. But he only apologized as an afterthought, and even then it was expressed as an annoyance, rather than something from his own heart that he wanted to heal between us. Maybe it really is a gift that he didn't.

And still, I rationalize. I minimize. I struggle every day, trying to fill in the places where I was not taught to value myself. As you know it has been excruciating, and tenuous at best. But, with the help of my cheerleaders, I have managed so far.

But I just had to tell you that after that session, where I left just the slightest bit more empowered and clear, sure enough there was a message on my cell phone. He was 'thinking of me', 'missing me'.

He's got radar, I tell you. I deleted the message, but not before it did its work and finagled another tortuous round of doubt. And not fifteen minutes after this hour of relentless reminding.

I hope I'm learning.
I'm trying.
I didn't call.

I just wanted to update you, ma fallsfall. Thank you so much for being here.

(((fallsfall)))

 

Re: fallsfall kara lynne

Posted by fallsfall on August 28, 2003, at 7:23:09

In reply to fallsfall, posted by kara lynne on August 28, 2003, at 1:22:14

Kara,
Print out your post and hang it next to your telephone. Let it remind you of the hurt that he inflicted on you.

>>But he isn't even trying! *Maybe* if he had come to me and truly aplogized, humbled himself and made an effort I could have been talked into it. You see how shaky my resolve is, and I would have loved for things to have been made 'all better now'. But he only apologized as an afterthought, and even then it was expressed as an annoyance, rather than something from his own heart that he wanted to heal between us. Maybe it really is a gift that he didn't.

Do you know why he didn't apologize? It's because he isn't sorry. Things were working the way he liked them. He was cruel, and you were groveling. You deserve better. You deserve much better.

>>the relationship died for me that night he looked me in the eye and told me I did not deserve love and would never find it.

He can't be more wrong. You might not deserve HIS love and you might never find HIS love (maybe because he doesn't have any), but there is a ton of love in the world waiting for you. Babble is starting things off for you with our hundreds of pounds of love. You'll find more just outside your door. Because you DO deserve love - you are worthy of love. You are a sweet and kind person.

Isn't it possible to block a particular phone number from calling your phone?

Keep holding on.
Don't call him
Don't email him
Listen to your therapist.

 

Re: fallsfall kara lynne

Posted by Phil on August 28, 2003, at 9:25:39

In reply to fallsfall, posted by kara lynne on August 28, 2003, at 1:22:14

http://www.slaafws.org/pamphlets/40questions.html

kara lynne, The above link will motivate you to not call. I haven't read all of your posts about the relationship but I think this site can help.
These relationships have nothing to do with love.

Addictive relationships are very serious. Don't call him ever. Once you're away for a short time, the effects wear off and you'll be happy he's gone. See him as he is, not how you want him to be. In AlAnon, we called this drill falling in sick with someone.

Be strong, okay?

Phil
ps: One question I ask myself when I catch myself in these piles of ---- is: If the two of you had children, which one of you would you want the kids to be like.

 

Re: fallsfall kara lynne

Posted by Tabitha on August 28, 2003, at 11:51:38

In reply to fallsfall, posted by kara lynne on August 28, 2003, at 1:22:14

KL, what your counselor did was so smart-- there are moments when you KNOW it's over, and things can get muddy later, but those moments never go away. When he said those things, it was a fatal blow to the relationship for you.

I can remember such moments in my marriage-- actually the most decisive one came BEFORE we were married. He was responsible for my cat when I was out of town, and the cat was sick and neighbors found it and called, the cat was crying loudly, but instead of picking it up that night he left it til morning and the cat died in the night. But the really bad thing was, he didn't seem to be very sorry at all, and couldn't see that he did anything wrong by leaving the cat til morning. If he had been taken to the vet immediately he could have been saved (the cat had urinary tract blockage). After that happened I KNEW there was something very very wrong. But I married him anyway. In hindsight I can SEE it was over for me then. I had seen things in his character that I could not accept, and I could not forgive his actions.

I suspect your ex truly does miss the support and validation you provided for him. But it doesn't mean he's changed in terms of his ability to be a good partner for you. Stay strong.

 

Phil

Posted by kara lynne on August 28, 2003, at 14:53:16

In reply to Re: fallsfall kara lynne, posted by Phil on August 28, 2003, at 9:25:39

Thanks Phil,
Falling in 'sick' with someone---oh, how true. Maybe it will help to remind myself that as you say, these relationships have nothing to do with love.

I went to a couple of S.L.A.A. meetings many years ago when I was getting out of another (but far less involved) relationship. I could certainly use the support of a group now, I just have to pick a venue. Even Alanon or Naranon might help, as he was still actively in his addiction for much of the time we were living together. I couldn't believe that I'd been in such denial when he finally told me.

Apart from that I'm re-reading "How To Break Your Addiction To A Person"--as Temmie has said, it's a really good book. Unfortunately I read it years ago and apparently it didn't sink in. I'm a little dismayed to be winding out the same pattern so much later down the road.

And as for your last question...yikes. I can only say I guess I'm glad we didn't have children together (even though that's a really sore subject for me).

Thanks again Phil, I do appreciate it.

 

kara kara

Posted by lil' jimi on September 1, 2003, at 0:15:24

In reply to Re: fallsfall kara lynne, posted by fallsfall on August 28, 2003, at 7:23:09

please, listen (and obey)
la ma fallsfall
!
she is wise
and
she loves you
just
like i do.

and we want you
to, too ...

there's that phone ringing inside
you ...
... rip the cord out
... smash it to pieces
... and burn it
... use that fire
... in the light
... at the top of your head
when the ringing stops ... then the silence can heal ...

fallsfall is very wise ...
you have good friends here ...

take care,
~ jim

p.s. Boo!

 

gimme back my jimi back...

Posted by kara lynne on September 1, 2003, at 0:58:15

In reply to kara kara, posted by lil' jimi on September 1, 2003, at 0:15:24

Hi jimi,
Thank you for your beautiful words. I have to guard them like a jealous lover, for the rest go to that lofty Lexapro thread...

Could you tell I was having a hard night? You must have known. I had my first good moment, followed by a bad night of missing him. I kept thinking back to him crying the night before I left, saying he really was going to marry me...

Funny how he forgot to before then. And yes, it would have been a disaster.

I love your image, I need that fire. I had a dream years ago that I was looking at my mother, saying I wanted my eyes to be clear and bright so the fire could shine through them.

I'm trying to gather myself back. Shred by shred.

Thank you (((( jimi))))

 

Kara, Queen of Her Destiny ! (feared by liars ...

Posted by lil' jimi on September 1, 2003, at 1:24:08

In reply to gimme back my jimi back..., posted by kara lynne on September 1, 2003, at 0:58:15

... respected by One and All! ... )

High Sweet Goddess of Her Own Best Interests
... with deference to our High Priestess FallsFall

> Hi jimi,
> Thank you for your beautiful words. I have to guard them like a jealous lover, for the rest go to that lofty Lexapro thread...
>
> Could you tell I was having a hard night? You must have known. I had my first good moment, followed by a bad night of missing him. I kept thinking back to him crying the night before I left, saying he really was going to marry me...
>
> Funny how he forgot to before then. And yes, it would have been a disaster.
>
> I love your image, I need that fire. I had a dream years ago that I was looking at my mother, saying I wanted my eyes to be clear and bright so the fire could shine through them.
>
> I'm trying to gather myself back. Shred by shred.
>
> Thank you (((( jimi))))

babe, you are so WAY welcome ... you don't EVEN know!
... ... lexapro thread ? whaat? that ol' lex thread, ha! ... just a fling! ... like face first into hot ssri's ashes, maybe ??? ... AH HA ! ... just joking around here ... lex thread?... pish!

you now i'll gladly come whenever you'd call, m'lady? ... you remain our liege .. and we at your service!

you are the most valuable of all precious things ... a rare and sensitive soul ...
... treasure yourself ... ... many here treasure you ... ...

you are beautiful ... i would not lie

bliss,
~ jim

 

Re: Kara lil' jimi

Posted by fallsfall on September 1, 2003, at 10:54:56

In reply to Kara, Queen of Her Destiny ! (feared by liars ..., posted by lil' jimi on September 1, 2003, at 1:24:08

Jimi - You made me laugh. (do it again!!!)

(((jimi)))

Kara - When you are having a hard time, please let us know!!! I thought you went away for the weekend (it was so quiet and lonely here).

 

High Priestess fallsfall

Posted by kara lynne on September 1, 2003, at 15:08:25

In reply to Re: Kara lil' jimi, posted by fallsfall on September 1, 2003, at 10:54:56

Thanks fallsfall,

He is good that jimi, isn't he?

Lately I've been in a funk about my age, even though I'd like to think I don't buy into all of that. But it's hard not to in this culture, in this city. Which sends me into more depression about wasting so much time with the ex and spirals me into despair about my barren reality. Which makes me realize that the only thing I can do is make something of my life--which I don't feel compelled to or confident about--and how I'd so much rather be settled by now with a family that a career would be an option and not an imperative. But who would want a woman without her own life, and back around the beginning we spin, ad nauseum.

But other than that I'm fine.

How long have you been divorced? How did you handle it?

 

Jimi-San

Posted by kara lynne on September 1, 2003, at 15:30:02

In reply to Kara, Queen of Her Destiny ! (feared by liars ..., posted by lil' jimi on September 1, 2003, at 1:24:08

Don't think I won't know if you come home with that Lexa-Perfume all over your shirt!

 

Re: High Priestess fallsfall kara lynne

Posted by fallsfall on September 1, 2003, at 16:42:34

In reply to High Priestess fallsfall, posted by kara lynne on September 1, 2003, at 15:08:25

You are so cute: "Other than that I'm fine".

I'd love to give you wise wisdom, but I'm fresh out. I would like to believe that if you are happy with yourself that nothing else (marriage, kids, career, house) matters. That may be true. I do think you are right that you have to start with you and then move on to the other things. From what I've seen, the world is lucky to have you. So give things a little time. You haven't been away from El-Creepo for very long. Did you see the post from Kalyb? She has a boyfriend now! It does work. Deep breaths help.

I'm not divorced yet. We've been separated for 4 years. He doesn't want a divorce and I won't care until 3 years from now when my youngest graduates from high school. I left him because he was toxic (in a psychological sense) to me. If I was to live, I had to leave. So it was a necessity. We started talking about it 7 months before I left. So I was really ready to be gone. Leaving him was easy. Dealing with my children and family was much harder. Those issues have settled down.

 

Queen Kara, Empress of Self-Preservation and ...

Posted by lil' jimi on September 2, 2003, at 1:20:12

In reply to Jimi-San, posted by kara lynne on September 1, 2003, at 15:30:02

... Sorceress, Diviner of Every Thought ...

... would know my every thought and my every pbab whereabouts ... as i would have it no other way ... ... without any need of shirt or any perfume ... i've no thing to conceal ...

... (must get that cyber-laundry done ... ) ...

... and Thou would know that the lex is but a crutch ... and vehicle ... ... while you remain our Destination !

... ... and lo! ... our very High (and so very kind!) Priestess is so very very good to us ... yet She suffers as well ... abandonment as i have never known ... ...

... please listen closely to your confidant the High Prietess, she blesses us with wisdom paid for in advance with Her pain ... i dare say ...

... love,
... ~ j


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