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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 10 to 34 of 42. Go back in thread:
Posted by Temmie on July 24, 2003, at 12:59:53
In reply to Re: The hurt ... it's a cyclical thing, posted by ROO on July 24, 2003, at 8:53:52
My personal beliefs are that Paul and I are both old souls who have lived and loved together many times. I knew him. I knew him the instant I met him (and I loved him from then on). He is spiritual, sensual, etc. etc. ... and yes, hypnotic. He's a nurse, a certified t'ai chi practitioner, and a Buddhist. I mean, he's actually taken vows in one of the Buddhist sects. Can't remember which one. Anyhow, 11/17/49 for him ... 5/12/53 for me. Not sure what my beliefs are on astrology anymore, but would be curious to entertain your findings. More soon. Thanks everyone, T.
Posted by Temmie on July 24, 2003, at 13:23:50
In reply to Re: The hurt ... it's a cyclical thing, posted by Temmie on July 24, 2003, at 12:59:53
Enabling, detaching, etc. I did not call Paul last night, but I called to talk with a mutual friend -- and it didn't feel right, but I so wanted to know what was going on -- and in such, opened up that whole attachment phoenomena. You know. Mercury, when you said STOP (or whatever that profound directive was), you meant stop at once. I get it. A classmate today put it in terms of saving my life -- and being necessary for Paul to save his. He will not have to make any changes at all, so long as people are aiding his limping along. Myself included. I just want to understand myself better -- and want to "unhook." I don't want to hurt anymore. I don't want to feel guilty. I don't want to feel concerned. I want my choice here to be clear -- and to put the responsibility for Paul taking care of himself (and his myriad problems) back on his shoulders. Good grief, I've got enough problems of my own -- but number one -- feeling that emotional door close would be a help. Anyone got website referrals to Al-Anon stuff?
Temmie
Posted by Greg on July 24, 2003, at 13:56:40
In reply to Looking for a link here re. ALCOHOLISM ..., posted by Temmie on July 24, 2003, at 13:23:50
Hi Temmie,
If you type alcoholism into any search engine, you'll get hundreds, if not thousands of sites to look at. I'm a recovering alcoholic of over 14 years, if I can answer any questions, please ask. But remember, I can only give you my own experiences and they may be completely different from someone elses.
I hope today is a better day for you.
Greg
Posted by Temmie on July 24, 2003, at 14:01:43
In reply to Re: Looking for a link here re. ALCOHOLISM ... » Temmie, posted by Greg on July 24, 2003, at 13:56:40
Thank you, Greg. I'm just lazy. Was looking for the best -- the quickest -- etc. I gotta do my own leg work, you're right. I hope today goes well for you, too, T.
Posted by ROO on July 24, 2003, at 17:05:19
In reply to Re: The hurt ... it's a cyclical thing, posted by Temmie on July 24, 2003, at 12:59:53
I thought he might be a scorpio when you said
hypnotic.I ran both your stats through an astrology program, just
for laughs. Take it with a grain of salt. I'm not sure
I believe in this stuff either, but I'm fascinated nonetheless.Anyway, here's what the program said when I did a compatibility
chart:The conjunction of composite Moon and composite
Mars indicates that you arouse very strong feelings in
each other, but by itself it does not indicate whether
they are good or bad feelings.In a love relationship, for example, this aspect
indicates that you will have a very strong emotional
involvement. The relationship will probably stir up both
positive and negative emotions in both of you.If your relationship is basically good, you will simply
experience a heightened emotional involvement,
although with a greater tendency to quarrel. But if your
relationship is not otherwise very sound, it will be
destroyed by the fighting that this aspect produces.One of the strong points of this aspect is that in a
sexual relationship it creates a good deal of sexual
energy.Mars square Neptune in the composite chart can be
quite difficult. It indicates that your intentions and the
way you interact weaken each other's effectiveness.
Usually one of you acts in such a way as to confuse or
delude the other, but also you may have a negative
reinforcing effect on each other.The only way to deal with this aspect is to stop
playing ego games, which is easier said than done,
because such games are usually played out
unconsciously. Neither parnter is aware of what is
going on.In an extreme case you may be consciously deceitful
toward each other. In a marriage, this might be done
through infidelity; in a friendship, it might be actions
that intentionally go against your friend's interests.The only defense is to be completely honest with
each other and at the same time reasonably gentle in
your honesty.
The conjunction of Sun and Venus in the composite
chart is one of the strongest indications of a love
relationship between two people, even in a
friendship. It does not primarily indicate a sexual
relationship; instead it signifies love, pure and simple.
The attraction indicated by this aspect is so powerful
that it can bring together people who are
incompatible by ordinary criteria.If the relationship is laden with conflicts, even a strong
feeling of love between you may turn to hatred. In
most cases, however, this will be a very fine personal
relationship.
he conjunction of composite Sun and Mercury
signifies that there will be a great deal of mental
activity in this relationship. This aspect is good for
verbal communication between you.You both should be wary of the tendency to
intellectualize your emotions rather than deal with
them at the gut level.You have an unusual similarity of thinking, or at least a
better than average ability to understand each other's
thinking.Mercury is a planet of travel, not always in the literal
sense of the word, but in the metaphorical sense; that
is, you like to be continually exposed to new ideas
and experiences together.One of the most positive attributes of this aspect is
the ability to be detached from what you are
discussing. Because of this detachment you may
even be able to talk about your relationship and arrive
at understandings that will help you both to get more
out of it.n a relationship with composite Sun opposition Pluto,
the most difficult problem will be power struggles.
There is a real danger that if this relationship breaks
up it will degenerate into open warfare.One or both of you must learn to curb your desire to
dominate the other. When the power of Pluto is
misused, the response tends to be violent, and no
matter what you think, with this aspect the power is
likely to be misused.There is a danger that through struggles for
domination one of you may emerge so much the loser
that you will not easily be able to recover a sense of
pride and self-confidence.The trine of composite Sun and Neptune indicates
that there is a good deal of idealism in this
relationship. You will feel that it is an extraordinary
union between two souls, perhaps even a spiritual
union. Many of the thoughts you want to communicate
to each other will not have to be spoken, for you will
know beforehand what the other person is thinking.The spiritualizing power of Neptune tends to negate
the physical realm. For this reason, a relationship with
a strong Neptune, such as this one, is likely to be
platonic rather than physical.In a friendship it is perfectly all right to commune at
such a high level, ignoring practicality. But in a love
relationship, especially marriage, practical concerns
have to be dealt with, and it may be difficult to bring
yourselves down to that level.But because Neptune rules self-sacrifice, one of the
strongest bonds between you will be your willingness
to give selflessly to each other at any time.
Posted by Mercury on July 24, 2003, at 18:58:19
In reply to MERCURY -- Your knowledge - ALCOHOLISM, posted by Temmie on July 23, 2003, at 17:13:58
Yes Temmie, I've been in AA (and sober) now for 3 weeks. And there is no substitute for going to meetings.
Mercury
Posted by Mercury on July 24, 2003, at 19:08:30
In reply to Hurt of Infidelity -- Merc and Fallsfall, posted by Temmie on July 23, 2003, at 6:11:29
You're welcome. Wondering...why do you want to go to Al-Alon? In answer to your question
** Should I return things to him then? Books, photos? The "dialogue journal" we had? **
No. Throw them in the garbage. Burn 'em. Leave em at the road side in a plastic bag. Whatever. Just get rid of them. Oh, and forget your camera. Consider it the price of freedom. All of these "things" are meaningless save for what you ascribe to them. In other words they are ties to the past. Excuses to contact Paul. Toss 'em out and fugeddaboudit!
Jeans and sandals are nice. But they aren't what's gonna sell it. Its all about the attitude. Sexy is a state of mind. Remember that.
Mercury
Posted by whiterabbit on July 24, 2003, at 20:23:13
In reply to Re: MERCURY -- Your knowledge - ALCOHOLISM, posted by Mercury on July 24, 2003, at 18:58:19
Posted by temmie on July 24, 2003, at 21:29:28
In reply to Re: Hurt of Infidelity -- Merc and Fallsfall, posted by Mercury on July 24, 2003, at 19:08:30
... otherwise referred to (with one friend, at least), as "Rebound Guy." (But that's just cruel.)
Dennis is sweet. We met for a drink ... which turned into drink(s). Then we lingered over dinner. He is a sweetie. I was not initially attracted to him, but it's such a relief to be able to talk with someone openly and honestly .... We'll see where it goes.
I have a therapy appointment with a new doc tomorrow (it's been probably two months in the waiting) who specializes in abuse-recovery issues. Presumably Doc U will be able to illuminate some of my understanding re. why I was attracted to such a dysfunctional, substance-addicted abuser ... And, in the meantime, Merc, you'll be happy to know -- Dennis thinks I'm beautiful and -- gasp -- foxy -- and dang it -- he wants to take me to the Carribean (or out on his boat until we can get there). I don't care. I'm just glad to have spent a fun evening with someone I can be upfront and honest with, who seems to honor my feelings, interests, desires, etc., including my need to TAKE THINGS SLOW.
Wheee! We'll see where this goes. I'm writing from campus and will drive home when I feel sober enough to do so. Betweeen you, Merc, Fallsfall (and Zoo? Sorry, I'm not clear on names at this point ... for the astrological eomparison) ... thanks to everyone's enouragement -- I feel a wee bit clearer about the need to STOP things immediately, to step aside from the role of Enabler, and to permit Paul the privilege of figuring things out by himself.
More soon.
XXX, Temmie
Posted by Mercury on July 24, 2003, at 22:45:27
In reply to OMG -- Back at computer after date with EMT Guy, posted by temmie on July 24, 2003, at 21:29:28
Great for you Temmie! Good show! Out with the old, in with the new! Now...just in case you thought I advocate the "party girl" mentality, let's have a reality check for a moment shall we? I'm gonna give you some more of that "guy" insight. This is what I think you should do. Don't call this Dennis guy back. At least for a while. First of all, never trust a man who invites you to his boat on the first date! LOL! But second, I think you should put this whole "rebound" thing to bed ASAP. Here's how. Go on a second date with someone else as soon as possible. This time, ask out someone you know. Just for dinner. Nothing deep. Then identify someone else...maybe a stranger, and see if you can get THEM to ask you out. But be subtle about it. Don't worry about failing. If it doesn't work try with someone else. Again, be SUBTLE. You don't want them to know what you are doing. Use the ol' Jedi mind trick! Then let these guys court you for a little while. Let them treat you to some nice nights out, let them buy you gifts, and shower you with attention. Enjoy yourself. Take your time. Be special. Then after a while, you'll find the right guy. Either it will be one of these first few (hey maybe even Dennis) or you'll catch the eye of someone else. Most guys want a girl who's "in demand". Just be open with them. Let them know you are dating other men as well. The will appreciate the honesty. Let them compete for your affections. If any of them have a problem with that...well then, he wasn't right for you anyway.
I feel like dear Abby! LOL!
Mercury
Posted by fallsfall on July 25, 2003, at 0:31:29
In reply to OMG -- Back at computer after date with EMT Guy, posted by temmie on July 24, 2003, at 21:29:28
You Go Girl!!!
I am so proud of you! You found out that other guys can be pleasant, and maybe even have a couple of good traits that Paul is lacking.
What a big step to take - and what a success!
(Now you just have to get me out on a date...)
Posted by Temmie on July 25, 2003, at 1:45:55
In reply to OMG -- Back at computer after date with EMT Guy, posted by temmie on July 24, 2003, at 21:29:28
... and I do mean everything. I do need to slow things down. I hope you're getting my drift here. D talked about things he'd like to do with me, to me, for me, etc. Eeegads. I had way too much wine -- and I demurred, discussed, etc., but said repeatedly, I wanted to progress SLOW.
Fortunately, he doesn't know my last name, my phone number, where I live, where I work, etc.
I've gotta take a break.
Paul had a message on my cell, "Hi Sweetie, bla bla bla." I deleted it (and others). I called our mutual friend in NY and said I probably wouldn't be able to call her again, because talkin with her kept the avenues (of emotion) open ... and I couldn't do that ...
Yuckie! It's 1:30 in the morning, I've just woken from a fitful sleep, and Merc -- I'll read again/respond to your suggestions above when I have more time.
I do want to wait before intimacy. A long wait. That's all I can say for now. Temmie.
Posted by Temmie on July 25, 2003, at 8:44:25
In reply to Re: OMG -- Back at computer after date with EMT Guy » temmie, posted by fallsfall on July 25, 2003, at 0:31:29
Do you want to date? Do you have -- how to say --- "access" to men at work, school, or home? Might you respond to a pesonal ad? Write one yourself? Do you have time for a companion? It's all easier said than done ... it takes a lot of courage, I know ... but you're sweet, sensitive, intelligent, giving, supportive, thoughtful, etc., and would be a terrific catch for any number of people! Why not fill out the personality profile at eHarmony.com (warning, it's exhaustive and might best be done in stages). It won't cost you anything, and you might be surprised to have a "match" pop-up in your area .... Otherwise, checkout some of the other online services ....
What do you think?
Much affection, Temmie
Posted by Temmie on July 25, 2003, at 8:57:53
In reply to Re: OMG -- Back at computer after date with EMT Guy, posted by Mercury on July 24, 2003, at 22:45:27
You are such a sweetie. I love talking with a man "on the sly," about the male POV. I'm sure others are enjoying/benefitting from your advice and suggestions, as well.
I don't have "access" to other men at work/school/home, although I've caught my professor's eye (what a cutie, and how charming, from Duesseldorf, and soooo interesting, but married). We do have an alternative "Village Voice" kind of newspaper where I live, though, and I'll peruse the personals there and -- heck -- maybe I'll even write one.
Dennis is a major sweetie, but not my "type." Whatever that means. You know, I'm an old hippie, I like rock-and-roll (although I'm hardly up-to-date with Cold Play, David Gray, Beck, and a lot of the news artists my son has introduced me to). I'd rather go to the Chicago Blues Fest than fly to New Orleans to listen to Dixie (which D suggested). I don't golf. I don't, as you know, own any "after five" clothes, and I don't care for men wearing cologne ... or jewelery. Heavens, I sound like such an elitist or a snob.
I also wasn't comfortable talking about sex, including D's claim that he didn't need Viagra, and detailed information about some of the things he said he wanted to do to me.
Yikes!
On a plus note, he was gentlemanly. He walked me to the campus library (I didn't want him to come to know/recognize my car), he stopped when I asked him too, he told me repeatedly how beautiful I was, he has an alternative (and somewhat interesting "take" on things (I'm more New Age spiritual -- I'm a priest in one of the Gnostic Orders (!), he's more pragmatic -- a former Major in the Air National Guard, for Heaven's sake), he's got money, he sounds generous (yes, generous in bed, too), he's -- from what I can tell -- fairly level-headed.
Oh. I have a tummy ache this morning from FIVE glasses of wine. That's not good.
If nothing else, going out with D signaled one of the first important ... necessary ... steps in letting go of and moving away from Paul ....Other than that, I don't know what to say.
I appreciate, value and love all the support I've received here. If this is "legal," and anyone wants to talk more extensively/privately, feel free to write me via: temenos512@yahoo.com
Best,
Temmie
Posted by Temmie on July 25, 2003, at 9:03:28
In reply to Re: Astrological Analysis, posted by ROO on July 24, 2003, at 17:05:19
Thank you, ROO, that was certainly an interesting analysis. There's a lot in there I might highlight as quite accurate. Some I don't have any experience with ... in terms of agreeing with or not agreeing. Paul is a sweetie. You should read some of the things he's written me! (Yes, Merc, I'll have to throw those out or leave them in someone's dumpster to find, enjoy, reflect upon.) He's incredibly romantic, and so loving ... attentive. Sigh. Can't go there. The IDEA, however, of just "dating" period is quite interesting. I suppose there's an endless permutation of possibilities with all the singles in this area (if I could only find them all, or just a healthy sampling of some), and perhaps I'll write again and ask if you'd do another profile.
Is this program available online?
Wishing you love, joy, peace ... Temmie
Posted by fallsfall on July 25, 2003, at 11:03:53
In reply to After date w/ EMT Guy -- Fallsfall, posted by Temmie on July 25, 2003, at 8:44:25
I have actually been dating just a little. I found two interesting people on an online dating service.
The problem is that I'm disabled with Depression. So I'm not a lot of fun to talk to because I don't do anything so I don't have anything to talk about. (I do great with Mental Illness, but most people don't consider that the best topic for a date) I was supposed to have a date 3 or 4 weeks ago, but I cancelled it. My life was so stressful because I was changing therapists, I couldn't imagine trying to focus on any one thing more than 15 minutes. I need to call and set that up again - but it is scary.
Since I'm not working I don't meet a lot of people. I go to two support groups, but they are fairly heavily Mental Illness focused, too. I know I need to get out more, but everytime I try to get inspired to do something new another crisis crashes down and I feel like I can't do it.
Well, I have a new therapist now. Maybe things will change. Dating is on my mind.
Posted by Temmie on July 25, 2003, at 16:28:21
In reply to Still Reeling in Confusion and Hurt of Infidelity, posted by Temmie on July 22, 2003, at 23:55:48
1. Even though your objective judgment (and perhaps the judgement of others) tells you that the relationship is bad for you and you cannot expect any improvement, you take no effective steps to break with it.
2. You give yourself reasons for staying in it that do not hold water or that are not really strong enough to balance the negatives in the relationship.
3. When you think about ending the relationship, you feel dread, even terror, and you cling to it even harder.
4. When you take steps to end it, you suffer acute withdrawal symptoms, including physiucal distress, that can only be relieved by reestablishing contact.
5. When the relationship is REALLY over (or you fantasize that it has ended), you feel the lostness, aloneness, and emptiness of a person eternally exiled -- often followed or even accompanied by a feeling of liberation.
These have been of help to me, and are taken from the book, "How to Break Your Addiction to a Person" by Howard M. Halpern
Posted by Temmie on July 25, 2003, at 16:48:04
In reply to Re: MERCURY -- Your knowledge - ALCOHOLISM, posted by Mercury on July 24, 2003, at 18:58:19
Congratulations, Mercury! Keep up the good work. I am so proud of you. "Tamster"
Posted by Temmie on July 25, 2003, at 21:30:24
In reply to Still Reeling in Confusion and Hurt of Infidelity, posted by Temmie on July 22, 2003, at 23:55:48
Well, guess what? It’s still a very cyclical thing, and tonight I feel my heart is splitting in two. Every couple hours I take another Xanax (I’ve only had three today), but nothing seems to be taking the pain away. I’m very sorry for being so needy. I’m most appreciative for all the fanfare and rah-rah support this thread has generated. If I weren’t so principled, and didn’t have a linguistics exam on Monday, I’d drink myself into oblivion. Oh. I guess I did that last night.
I’m shocked and disgusted about how last night’s date turned out .... Which, I’m sure, is responsible for the momentum behind today’s sense of crashing and burning. This was too much ... too soon ... and I’m so distracted ... and so hurting.
I think I’ll seek out some Al-Anon meetings this weekend. Thanks everyone. T.
Posted by Tabitha on July 26, 2003, at 1:10:24
In reply to Pain, posted by Temmie on July 25, 2003, at 21:30:24
Temmie, besides Al-Alon, I can suggest some other support groups for relationship issues and love addiction issues. CoDa is good for general relationship issues. S.L.A.A. (Sex & Love Addicts Anonymous) is for sex addiction and love/romance addiction. I've also seen ads for Women Who Love Too Much groups, which I think are also 12 steps, focused on love addiction. If you live near a decent size city it probably has these groups.
Actually if you go to Al-Anon you can probably just ask there if anyone knows any more groups. I was just thinking that if you relate to the book about addiction to a person, you might benefit from a group that's focused on love addiction.
Posted by fallsfall on July 26, 2003, at 10:27:54
In reply to Pain, posted by Temmie on July 25, 2003, at 21:30:24
Temmie,
I just reread the posts about your date with Dennis. I'm not seeing where it was such a disaster. Sounds like you both talked in a little more depth than I would on a first date (but I'm a prude), but other than that, I'm not seeing where the disaster was. You may not be destined to be married and live happily ever after, but that's not what first dates are for. First dates are to meet new and different people and find out what you do and don't like AND TO HAVE A GOOD TIME.
You said: "I'm just glad to have spent a fun evening with someone I can be upfront and honest with, who seems to honor my feelings, interests, desires, etc., including my need to TAKE THINGS SLOW."
So, can't you say that you had an enjoyable evening, but you probably don't want to see him again? That's not a disaster. That's one more experience for your life.
As for Paul. Please stay strong. I think that if you looked at it Objectively (I don't think anyone looks at things objectively) that you would agree that you would be better off married to Dennis than Paul. Just my opinion.... Since you didn't ask...
Posted by Temmie on July 26, 2003, at 12:38:00
In reply to Re: Pain » Temmie, posted by fallsfall on July 26, 2003, at 10:27:54
Well ... I'm fifty, but I look late 30s to 40-something, and Dennis looked old. Like a friend of my dad's. Still, I AM old myself .... But then I didn't like his cologne (am I repeating myself?), and his jewelery was a bit flashy. He was also shorter and chunkier than I'm usually attracted to -- but, hey -- I'm no longer a size 6/8 myself. He wanted to hold my hand, before I felt affectionate to do so .... But after glass after glass of wine, there I was -- squeezing his fingers and rubbing his hand myself! (Apparently I have no shame, or was just lonely lonely lonely for physical contact). Then he kissed me, and I kind of pulled away and said I wasn't ready for a "big sloppy French kiss" right then -- but he also told me I was "foxy" (that's kind of an antiquated term, isn't it?), and that I'd already given him "a couple of erections" just in the things I said ... the way I looked, etc. I could handle all that -- but when he asked if he could "eat my pussy," well -- yeah -- that might be fun sometime down the road -- but I felt a little objectified. That's what was icky. It's one thing to lean in for physical contact (even badwy conversation) with someone you have a little "chemistry" with -- but I felt, I don't know ... kind of like -- well, not quite whorish -- but something that just wasn't right. He felt me up while we were hugging goodbye -- and that was okay -- but when he started rubbing between my legs -- in public -- on the library mall -- and casting furtive glances left and right to see who might be looking. Icky! I couldn't wait to finish the "hug goodbye" and be on my way.
That was the disaster part of it. Excuse me for being so blunt.
On a plus side -- it was enormously gratifying, I suppose, that SOMEONE found me attractive, interesting, etc. Maybe others will feel the same. Preferably men more my type. Money is okay. I've lived with wealth and travel -- but there's just gotta be that certain "something" -- I'm much more of a "bed-head" kind of gal than carefully coifed. I'm more ... into the youthful aspects of camping, than touring the local lakes on a pontoon boat -- and as menioned, I'd much rather go to the Blues Fest than fly to New Orleans to hear "Dixie" (whatever Dixie is!). Nice guy, but I learned some important lessons.
1. Do not linger with a first meeting or "date" longer than it takes to consume one glass of wine (or one cup of coffee). If there's chemistry there, you'll know, and if you're fortunate enough to find chemistry -- cherish and give it the protection it deserves to blossom in its own time.
2. Be judicious in personal disclosures. You don't have to get everything out on the table in one night alone.
3. Do not feel the need to hold someone's hand just because they tell you they'd like you to, or it "feels good."
3. Do not use (or tolerate) vulgar language.
4. Do not entertain discussion of sex or sexual practices.
5. Do not kiss. A quick peck on the cheek can quickly get out of hand.
6. Protect your anonymity.
* * * * *
I can't remember what I've written where (I also have an online diary), and Dr. Bob, and others, if this language is offensive, inappropriate -- and out-of-line, I'm sorry! We are sharing here ... We are all adults .... And perhaps these disclosures will be of interest (or benefit) to others.
* * * * *
I'm a bit mushy, but I love you guys. I've gotten more help/support here than anywhere else -- and I'm so delighted to have found you.
Temmie
Posted by Temmie on July 26, 2003, at 13:48:12
In reply to Re: Pain » Temmie, posted by Tabitha on July 26, 2003, at 1:10:24
These are just the type of referrals I was looking for.
Bless you, T.
Posted by noa on July 26, 2003, at 18:34:30
In reply to Am I Repating Myself? Caution/Objectional Content, posted by Temmie on July 26, 2003, at 12:38:00
Temmie, I think your reflections are very wise.
I also understand that the kind of attention this man was giving you must have been important at that moment because you were feeling so bereft and alone.
But I think the lessons learned are wise. Choose wisely.
And---just because you are fifty doesn't mean you are old!
Posted by fallsfall on July 26, 2003, at 18:43:01
In reply to Am I Repating Myself? Caution/Objectional Content, posted by Temmie on July 26, 2003, at 12:38:00
Yes, that is too much. I think that people (men and women) have a really wide range in what kind of sex talk and sex action is appropriate when. For me, if they say a 3 letter word that starts with "se", that's too much for me. I am no expert - I've had 8 dates since 1979.
Anyway, I really like your list of rules.
Good bye, Dennis!
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